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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:08:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To make V8s they have to pay a tax and buy credits from Tesla, because the fuel economy is poor. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm not a car guy, but even I know that American muscle cars come in one flavor, and that's V8. Customers aren't asking for this, you have to wonder what kind of visit from the Bad Idea Fairy caused them to make this self-inflicted wound...? To make V8s they have to pay a tax and buy credits from Tesla, because the fuel economy is poor. Euroweenies simply do not understand the American market. Nobody here is going to buy a muscle car with a 6 in it unless it is for their girlfriend or wife. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:09:40 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What do you mean by “double vane”? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 3.0 straight 6 single turbo, double vane 30+mpg 320hp 330 lb-ft torque smooth as silk What do you mean by “double vane”? I think he ment to say variable vane |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:10:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Euroweenies simply do not understand the American market. Nobody here is going to buy a muscle car with a 6 in it unless it is for their girlfriend or wife. I wouldn’t know, I’m not a blue collar person. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:11:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Euroweenies simply do not understand the American market. Nobody here is going to buy a muscle car with a 6 in it unless it is for their girlfriend or wife.  |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:12:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think he meant to say variable vane BMW's inline sixes were recently designed with a single turbo that operated with two "vanes" with each one dedicated to three cylinders. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:14:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like they're using a dedicated turbo for each 3 cylinders. Maybe they can lop it in half to have an inline three cylinder version with just one turbo for their smaller vehicles.  Turbine stages are fed by 3 cylinders each, compressors are discharging to a common plenum. Garrett provides turbos for the engine - not sure if Stellantis dual sourced the turbos but I doubt it. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:14:41 PM EDT
[#7]
New engine, new problems ?
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:16:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Euroweenies simply do not understand the American market. Nobody here is going to buy a muscle car with a 6 in it unless it is for their girlfriend or wife. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/183309/buick_GNX1-2275879.jpg That and the Grand National were fun cars |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:17:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BMW's inline sixes were recently designed with a single turbo that operated with two "vanes" with each one dedicated to three cylinders. Are you talking about a dual volute/sector divided turbine housing? Can you post a pic showing what you’re describing? |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:18:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like they're using a dedicated turbo for each 3 cylinders. Maybe they can lop it in half to have an inline three cylinder version with just one turbo for their smaller vehicles. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:21:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That and the Grand National were fun cars ...in a straight line. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:25:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you talking about a dual volute/sector divided turbine housing? Can you post a pic showing what you’re describing? single turbo/twin scroll |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:26:49 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can we slap 5 of them together to make a 30 cylinder? 
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:34:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They never should have killed off the 4.0. One of the most bombproof engines ever made. ETA: first thing I would do is delete all that EGR crap. I had a 4.0 in a 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee that was a piece of crap....vibrated so bad, my ass would get numb....Jeep replaced it and the second one was worst. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:36:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Hoping for a modern 2jz or Rb26 equivalent
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:37:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BMW's inline sixes were recently designed with a single turbo that operated with two "vanes" with each one dedicated to three cylinders. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think he meant to say variable vane BMW's inline sixes were recently designed with a single turbo that operated with two "vanes" with each one dedicated to three cylinders. N54 was single vane twin turbo (I owned one) Pretty sure N55 and B58 are variable vane single turbos. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:37:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryI like that channel. He does a great job explaining and entertaining. And he has a great video on the 2jz |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:41:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's old is new again. Yep, GM resurrected the vortec straight six back in the Earl 2000's. And made a straight 5 and 4 from the same block. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:41:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. Chrysler drops a new inline six.... I sleep. Toyota drops a new inline six..... The world perks up. Or Nissan LOL. Nissan is JDM Chrysler |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:48:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Euroweenies simply do not understand the American market. Nobody here is going to buy a muscle car with a 6 in it unless it is for their girlfriend or wife. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/183309/buick_GNX1-2275879.jpg You prove my point. Look how many were made and sold. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 7:52:52 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Best engine configuration IMO. Agreed. I would welcome additional turbo'd I6 engines from all makers. That said, plymouthdodgedaimlerbenzchryslerfiatstellantis products don't exactly inspire me as I'm not into ghetto chariots and rust. YMMV. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:10:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Good to finally see what it will look like, a turbo six replacement for the Hemi has been rumored since at least 2016.
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryThey should make it a slant, just for this reason. They can even use the name like they did with the 3rd gen Hemis. Actually, they could also call it a Hemi as a throwback if . Quoted: Your 3.6 is a minivan/truck/SUV/car engine. FIFY. Seems to hold up well in 1/2 ton pickups. Quoted: That's an interesting take. EGR systems have been on gasoline engines for decades, and they don't cause many problems. Deleting it would likely require thousands of dollars in hardware and tuning, and even if you somehow still think it's worth it, that stuff probably won't be available as the vendors producing it have been dick slapped hard by the EPA. The current (since 2009) 5.7L VVT Hemi does not have EGR FWIW. Quoted: Lol @ using 3.0L and 2 turbos to eek out 400HP. And thats probably at the crank with no accessories. You can get a used honda motor and 1 turbo and be putting out 475 to the wheels. My 9 year old 5.7 is rated at 395/410. It's still a very well balanced engine today in terms of fuel efficiency, power, and torque; especially when you consider the Eagle Hemi came out 13 years ago in 2009. Looking at the Ford and Toyota turbo sixes I expect this will be around 450/500. Quoted: I've never heard anyone refer to slant sixes a shitty engines. No kidding, my uncle's dad ran a taxi company and swore by them. There was even a 1963 Plymouth Fury that made it to 1,600,000+ miles in taxi service before the odds finally caught up with it and it was hit by a truck. (I hate to post listicles, but I can't find the Allpar article on it anymore). Looks like the guy below you's experience was due to malaise era crap. Quoted:  "Regularly?" lol It's a very safe bet that well over 80% of 4.0s went to the junk yard with less than half that mileage on them, mostly just because that's the way the world works. The rest of the vehicle gets clapped out, it goes to the yard, and the engine goes with it. Some of those 4.0s got pulled from the yard to live again, but odds are, most of those were used to replace... other 4.0s. If you want to tell anecdotes, here's the story of a 3.6 Pentastar that lasted 626k miles in a Ram Promaster work van: https://www.thedrive.com/news/34672/check-out-how-surprisingly-durable-this-chrysler-pentastar-v6-is-after-626000-miles The 4.0 was easily a 300k engine in an era when many were not. I have seen them run for prolonged periods with coolant in the oil, and long after the cracked head or gasket was replaced. A lot of the takeaway here is that a lot of slant 6's tend to be great engines. Even Ford had a great one (and powertrains have always driven me away from Ford). The Pentastar is a great engine though, no argument from me on that one. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:23:07 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: N54 was single vane twin turbo (I owned one) Pretty sure N55 and B58 are variable vane single turbos. "twin scroll" |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:24:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The main advantage of a straight six over a V6 is that there are fewer parts. Fewer parts = cheaper to build. Quote HistoryQuoted: The main advantage of a straight six over a V6 is that there are fewer parts. Fewer parts = cheaper to build. More mains per rod too, so theoretically the bottom end can take more boost than a V6, all else being equal. Quoted: The 3.6 is a shit engine for a Jeep or a pickup. Peak torque at what....5k rpm? Cant make it up a hill at highway speed without bouncing off the rev limiter. Not really, 90% of torque is available from 1,800 to 6,350 rpm. It isn't a peaky engine at all, and the 845RFE makes it even better. Quoted: LOL. Nissan is JDM Chrysler Mitsubishi would have been closer. When you compare the fact that Chrysler has been using some of the best transmissions on the market in their vehicles for the better part of a decade with the fact that Nissan has had a penchant for using disposable transaxles over the same period, your comment reveals itself to be nonsensical. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:27:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More mains per rod too, so theoretically the bottom end can take more boost than a V6, all else being equal. Not really, 90% of torque is available from 1,800 to 6,350 rpm. It isn't a peaky engine at all, and the 845RFE makes it even better. Mitsubishi would have been closer. When you compare the fact that Chrysler has been using some of the best transmissions on the market in their vehicles for the better part of a decade with the fact that Nissan has had a penchant for using disposable transaxles over the same period, your comment reveals itself to be nonsensical. Chrysler and “good transmission” are words that NOBODY associates with each other. I was a proud 48RE victim, twice. Maybe they’ve improved recently but historically their transmissions have been junk |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:35:58 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Chrysler and “good transmission” are words that NOBODY associates with each other. I was a proud 48RE victim, twice. Maybe they’ve improved recently but historically their transmissions have been junk Was that 48RE behind a Cummins? |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:46:50 PM EDT
[#27]
My 3.6 has 142,000+ trouble free miles. Averaged 29 mpg on a 4000 plus mile vacation. 30mpg the one time I bought ethonal free.
The 3.8 in the other vans reached 369,000 before some totaled when parked. Anothe one has about 230,000 on it and the third has 378,000 on it. Brakes oil belts and tires are all the needed. The 3.6 did need an alternator and the highest mile 3.8 had a water pump, hoses and radiator. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:51:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL. Nissan is JDM Chrysler Wouldn't that be Mitsubishi? I mean I did own a DSM |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:54:06 PM EDT
[#29]
Mopar garbage is garbage. I just couldn't care less.
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:54:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My 4.6 stroker does alright. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/171820/Capture_JPG-2275508.JPG Not impressive. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 8:57:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Chrysler and “good transmission” are words that NOBODY associates with each other. I was a proud 48RE victim, twice. Maybe they’ve improved recently but historically their transmissions have been junk Anyone who is at all aware of what automakers have actually been producing for the past few years does. The 48RE hasn't been made for a decade and a half.  Most of the problems people had with the REs were caused by operator error and poor maintenance anyway. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:02:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote History9 dudes bought that car. So what? |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:03:01 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote History |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:14:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 3.6 > 4.0. More hp, more tq, better mpg. Just as reliable. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They never should have killed off the 4.0. One of the most bombproof engines ever made. ETA: first thing I would do is delete all that EGR crap. 3.6 > 4.0. More hp, more tq, better mpg. Just as reliable. Reliability isn’t the question. “Bombproof” (*durability)…that cast iron 4.0 I6 could take abuse no aluminum motor could ever withstand. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:25:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Euroweenies simply do not understand the American market. Nobody here is going to buy a muscle car with a 6 in it unless it is for their girlfriend or wife. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/183309/buick_GNX1-2275879.jpg The GN and GNX entered the market at a time when people were thirsty for better performance, because most of the other factory offerings were sadly lethargic, and left a lot to be desired. That is simply not the case today. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:28:29 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The main advantage of a straight six over a V6 is that there are fewer parts. Fewer parts = cheaper to build. in fact straight 6 is one of the best if not the best inherent engine designs, much superior to a v6 All of the big 3 made great reliable strong Straight 6's. My Dad bought all of his pickups for his business with I6's in them. They were fantastic engines at the time. Ford and Gm both. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:39:59 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryIt doesn't look right in red, but I bet that thing was a lot of fun. Adjusting the valves on a regular basis was sort of a pain, tho'. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:50:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The main advantage of a straight six over a V6 is that there are fewer parts. Fewer parts = cheaper to build. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:52:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Only one bank = more room for turbos. I'd guess the packaging is the main reason there aren't more I6 engines in cars now, but Chrysler and Mazda are both releasing new ones soon. Seems like the smoothness and performance under boost outweigh the negatives for them. I think I6s are cool and most have a torque curve (line really?) that is arousing. Only thing better is a V12. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:56:04 PM EDT
[#40]
So it's a 2jzGTE copy?
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Posted: 2/11/2022 9:59:38 PM EDT
[#41]
1940's Chevy GM Tech is the replacement for Mopar Hemi in the 21st Century?
But I look at stuff Daimler-Benz has been able to do, far from the days when More Horsepower = More C.I. Or far cry from putting the same Maybach engine from 40+ ton tanks into 50+ ton tanks. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:07:50 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A V-12 is an inline six with get both. 
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:08:25 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's pretty pathetic. And poor mpg to boot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 190/235. That's pretty pathetic. And poor mpg to boot. It’s hard to compare. Combustion chamber design and fuel delivery has made YUGE improvements since the 4.0 was discontinued. One could argue that with the same development the 4.0 architecture would fare well. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:10:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1940's Chevy GM Tech is the replacement for Mopar Hemi in the 21st Century? Well shit, now that you mention it they could have skipped all three Hemi generations if the tech came out in the 1940's!
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:11:04 PM EDT
[#45]
Interesting thing about that diagram is that there are two sets of throttle blades, one before the split to the turbos, one after the turbos before the air goes into the head (boxes labeled 110 and 122, box 160 is EGR valve). Normally there is only a single set of throttle blades to control how much air goes into the engine.
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:14:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can we slap 5 of them together to make a 30 cylinder? Called a Chrysler A57, used in Sherman M4A2 Tanks we gave the Brits and Canadians in Dubya Dubya Deuce. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:14:46 PM EDT
[#47]
Interesting but I’m glad we bought our Gladiator with the diesel. 440+ ft/lbs of torque in that little Jeep is awesome!
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:15:21 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You say that, but the 3.6 v-6 is a very reliable motor. It's been around for a decade and has an excellent reputation. It replaced another good motor, the 4.0 I-6. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But it is still a Chrysler. You say that, but the 3.6 v-6 is a very reliable motor. It's been around for a decade and has an excellent reputation. It replaced another good motor, the 4.0 I-6. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:21:32 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They did that already. Called a Chrysler A57, used in Sherman M4A2 Tanks we gave the Brits and Canadians in Dubya Dubya Deuce. That's the joke. Those were flathead sixes though. Another great and long running Chrysler engine |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 10:29:33 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can we slap 5 of them together to make a 30 cylinder? Also needs a supercharger, turbo charger, and a power recovery turbine. |
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