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Posted: 4/2/2014 5:28:24 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No need to lie. My experiences shows that the tithe offered is based on each individual's personal definition of income. 10% of that being the guide. The base being up to the worshiper. Full tithe payer being left to an individual's personal conscience. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I didn't imply that it required a W-2 form or that the church gets the money deducted automatically. It is, however, part of the worthiness interview. The member could lie about paying the required tithe I suppose. No need to lie. My experiences shows that the tithe offered is based on each individual's personal definition of income. 10% of that being the guide. The base being up to the worshiper. Full tithe payer being left to an individual's personal conscience. Well of course - that's what I meant. I wouldn't expect anyone to lie. The matter of fact is that faithful Mormons do pay the tithe because they are honorable and it *is* required for a temple recommend. Not that there's anything wrong with tithing... |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 5:29:49 PM EST
[#2]
I mentioned in a thread a few weeks ago that I worked with someone who had to provide their W2 info (not tax info) to their church, for this very reason (tithing).
Someone stated "that's a cult, not a church". I agree. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 5:35:35 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I mentioned in a thread a few weeks ago that I worked with someone who had to provide their W2 info (not tax info) to their church, for this very reason (tithing). Someone stated "that's a cult, not a church". I agree. I am pretty sure a large black church in Killeen TX wants your W-2 to be a member. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 5:40:03 PM EST
[#4]
Do they want you to tithe on the gross, or the net?
We are close to tithe on the net, and if you count the various charitable contributions outside of church that we make, we "tithe" on the net. The church no longer is the provider for the poor/needy/widows/orphans that it once may have been in Biblical times and maybe even up through the ~1920's (pre-New Deal). Now that the state provides for those things in large part through my taxes, I am not convinced I should have to tithe to a church whose main expenditures are administrators. Ironically, a rector who served at the church we attended once went to lunch with me and made a big point of how he did NOT tip on the total bill; just the food (not including taxes). I just roll my eyes and tip on the entire amount if the service is good and I can afford it. This church will have a small group of hard core types who will fall out over who gets baptized by immersion or by sprinkling. 
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Posted: 4/2/2014 5:41:47 PM EST
[#5]
There isnt a chance I am giving a church 10 percent of what I make a year with the things I have going on right now.
And as a fact, I'm not doing it after I get in better shape either. So lets say 100,000 a year divided by 10 percent=10,000 a year or 833.33 a month. Thats nearly a house payment every month In my shape NO WAY. Who the hell thought this shit up anyway. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 5:41:50 PM EST
[#6]
love my church, if they pulled this i would eject so fast there would be just a small puff of smoke where i was just standing....giving is from the heart...
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Posted: 4/2/2014 5:42:23 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I heard that, I would leave, and when I got to the door, I would stop, take my shoes off, and knock the dust off. I see what you did, there, Amos. Your work is done. 
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Posted: 4/2/2014 5:43:25 PM EST
[#8]
Quoted:
Local talk radio today discussed the fact that after two visits to a church a couple new to the area was approached by church members and told that in order to become members that had to bring in their W-2's and have a tithe (10%) automatically deducted? Anyone ever heard of this? I think tithing (if that is the correct term) is admirable. I think the church forcing members to do so is ... missing the point. Thoughts? Several of the big MEGA churches in our area do that......some I've been told "recommend" that 15-20% of your salary be deducted and given to the church. Nothing but robbery!! 
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Posted: 4/2/2014 5:44:00 PM EST
[#9]
I think people focus too much on tithing and too little on everything else.
My worth as a Christian isn't defined by how much or how little money I give to *insert org here* |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 5:50:18 PM EST
[#10]
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Posted: 4/2/2014 5:52:41 PM EST
[#11]
The best man that I currently know is a Pastor. His dedication to the church and his congregation is to the point where it is impacting on his own health. If you knew him, you wouldn't be surprised - he consistently puts others before himself. His church is large and loyal. The Pastor of the church that I grew up in as a child was another good man. It was one of the largest Lutheran churches in the state. He received a salary from the church to pay for his own needs. Whatever wasn't used at the end of the year was given back to the church. He did not live an extravagant life, live in a million dollar home or drive a fancy car. The money he gave back at the end of the year wasn't done in a public fashion to build his reputation. The only reason I know about it is that my father was involved in the church finances for awhile and that's how he found out. I question the motivations of some in this thread. I guess that's what you get from the internet. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:24:56 PM EST
[#12]
Christians are our own worst enemy at times. Some do stupid stuff like this W2 crap or like my previous employer, required 10% out of each paycheck auto drafted. I had no say in the matter, only if I wanted to increase my %.
Tithing is supposed to be a cheerful act and done from the heart. For awhile, that past experience burned me out good. I jumped into a different industry, started attending another church and am totally overwhelmed by the blessings being sent my way. I love giving every other week to the church my wife and I go to because I see the community outreach that is done, the care fund for folks that are down on their luck and many other outlets. The one time I heard it mentioned was that over 60% of our church does give in some way. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:27:28 PM EST
[#13]
Quoted:
Local talk radio today discussed the fact that after two visits to a church a couple new to the area was approached by church members and told that in order to become members that had to bring in their W-2's and have a tithe (10%) automatically deducted? Anyone ever heard of this? I think tithing (if that is the correct term) is admirable. I think the church forcing members to do so is ... missing the point. Thoughts?  This completely misses the point of the tithe. It's supposed to be voluntary and an amount the individual decides to offer to God as a sacrifice
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:28:55 PM EST
[#14]
Quoted:
Local talk radio today discussed the fact that after two visits to a church a couple new to the area was approached by church members and told that in order to become members that had to bring in their W-2's and have a tithe (10%) automatically deducted? Anyone ever heard of this? I think tithing (if that is the correct term) is admirable. I think the church forcing members to do so is ... missing the point. Thoughts? The stupid in this hurts. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:32:36 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: About as crazy as some churches having a tithing settlement at the end of the year to make sure people pay their 10% or have certain membership privileges taken away Well, the funny thing is you can claim to be a full tithe payer in that particular church and they won't even bother to check to see if you're telling the truth. I find it odd that some people want to be members of a certain church, but get all bent out of shape when they find out they have to obey rules and stuff to be a member. Why can't churches let anyone be a member, regardless of what they do or even believe? |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:33:19 PM EST
[#16]
Hey preacher-
I talked to God today. He told me that you needed to get bent. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:34:08 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My wife and I considered joining a church recently, and to my surprise they included paperwork on their financials. On nearly 3 million dollars taken in from donations, roughly 100,000 actually went to charitable causes and the rest was consumed my operating expenditures. Needless to say we didn't become members. I don't really know ow if that's unusual though. Remind me again why churches are tax exempt? |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:35:06 PM EST
[#18]
Gee.... it's almost like organized religions are about money or something.....
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:35:53 PM EST
[#19]
We have one like that near me. There are hundreds of others. New church time. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:38:18 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've never been to a Catholic Church where that was even mentioned. "Tithing" seems more of a Protestant thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My parents' Catholic church recommends a 10% tithe, but you have to sign the check each week. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I've never been to a Catholic Church where that was even mentioned. "Tithing" seems more of a Protestant thing. +1 |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:39:14 PM EST
[#21]
Sounds good to me. Don't like it, don't join. Some people like to hang out in places that have standards.
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:39:52 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ask how many times Jesus was in a church. Actually, he showed up to the synagogue or the Jerusalem temple fairly often: Matthew 12:9, John 6:59, Luke 13:10, Mark 1:23, Mark 1:39, Luke 4:15, John 8-10, the entire Passion Week.... Jesus was a regular fixture at church. One could say he attended services religiously.... |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:40:29 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Need to find another church |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:40:52 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No posts from members in Utah yet... That's because the LDS Church allows you to donate whatever amount you wish and doesn't require verification if you claim it's 10% of your income. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:45:55 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you or do you not have to tithe a required percentage of your income in order to get your temple recommend? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Some kind of Mormon Church? I hear they are mandated to give 10% of their pay for the pantry. What are you talking about? Do you or do you not have to tithe a required percentage of your income in order to get your temple recommend? Yeah, but they don't require W-2s to verify it. You can claim being a full tithe payer and no one will dispute it -- unless their records show you didn't give anything, or gave a total of like $22.53 when you obviously have a seven-figure income. Otherwise, it's on the honor system. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:46:27 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's because the LDS Church allows you to donate whatever amount you wish and doesn't require verification if you claim it's 10% of your income. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No posts from members in Utah yet... That's because the LDS Church allows you to donate whatever amount you wish and doesn't require verification if you claim it's 10% of your income. Why are members called to tithing settlement once a year and reminded to settle their unpaid tithes? Why are ward audits held? |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:50:49 PM EST
[#27]
Any church that needs to force parishioners to pay up is not worth a second look.
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:51:07 PM EST
[#28]
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:51:46 PM EST
[#29]
do they keep the A/C on 72.
And guarantee entry at the pearly gates ! if not run. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:52:01 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are members called to tithing settlement once a year and reminded to settle their unpaid tithes? Why are ward audits held? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: No posts from members in Utah yet... That's because the LDS Church allows you to donate whatever amount you wish and doesn't require verification if you claim it's 10% of your income. Why are members called to tithing settlement once a year and reminded to settle their unpaid tithes? Why are ward audits held? What "audits" are you talking about? This is how the 40-odd yearly tithing settlements I have attended usually go: Bishop: Welcome, Brother GarandM1. How are you doing? How is your family? Is there anything we can do for you? Me: Thanks Small chit-chat for about 5 minutes on subjects covering everything from weather to BYU sports.... Bishop: Our records show you gave $XXXXXX to the church last year. Is this a full tithe? Me: Sure is. Bishop: Okay, have a Merry Christmas. That's pretty much it. Usually the family comes along. No pressure, no hype. If you don't want to attend, you don't have to. And you certainly don't bring your taxes and W-2 forms or any financial records whatsoever. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:52:02 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually, he showed up to the synagogue or the Jerusalem temple fairly often: Matthew 12:9, John 6:59, Luke 13:10, Mark 1:23, Mark 1:39, Luke 4:15, John 8-10, the entire Passion Week.... Jesus was a regular fixture at church. One could say he attended services religiously.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ask how many times Jesus was in a church. Actually, he showed up to the synagogue or the Jerusalem temple fairly often: Matthew 12:9, John 6:59, Luke 13:10, Mark 1:23, Mark 1:39, Luke 4:15, John 8-10, the entire Passion Week.... Jesus was a regular fixture at church. One could say he attended services religiously.... Yeah, but that was mainly to piss people off.
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:52:22 PM EST
[#32]
double post may bad
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Posted: 4/2/2014 6:54:47 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What "audits" are you talking about? This is how the 40-odd yearly tithing settlements I have attended usually go: Bishop: Welcome, Brother GarandM1. How are you doing? How is your family? Is there anything we can do for you? Me: Thanks Small chit-chat for about 5 minutes on subjects covering everything from weather to BYU sports.... Bishop: Our records show you gave $XXXXXX to the church last year. Is this a full tithe? Me: Sure is. Bishop: Okay, have a Merry Christmas. That's pretty much it. Usually the family comes along. No pressure, no hype. If you don't want to attend, you don't have to. And you certainly don't bring your taxes and W-2 forms or any financial records whatsoever. Wow. The simple fact that that even happens in the first place is totally repulsive to me. No offense, but
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Posted: 4/2/2014 7:01:18 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow. The simple fact that that even happens in the first place is totally repulsive to me. No offense, but Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What "audits" are you talking about? This is how the 40-odd yearly tithing settlements I have attended usually go: Bishop: Welcome, Brother GarandM1. How are you doing? How is your family? Is there anything we can do for you? Me: Thanks Small chit-chat for about 5 minutes on subjects covering everything from weather to BYU sports.... Bishop: Our records show you gave $XXXXXX to the church last year. Is this a full tithe? Me: Sure is. Bishop: Okay, have a Merry Christmas. That's pretty much it. Usually the family comes along. No pressure, no hype. If you don't want to attend, you don't have to. And you certainly don't bring your taxes and W-2 forms or any financial records whatsoever. Wow. The simple fact that that even happens in the first place is totally repulsive to me. No offense, but None taken. If you want to be an active LDS member, then you pay tithing. If you don't, then you don't. Nothing sinister about it; it's a voluntary organization. There is a practical aspect to it: Donations to the church are tax-deductible. If you want to claim it on your taxes, then you're going to need a statement from the church. The IRS isn't going to accept just an "oh, I gave in secret every Sunday because that's what Jesus told me to do". |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 7:03:15 PM EST
[#35]
Speaking of money and churches, there's a special on Scientology on H2 right now. Quite the documentary.
Sorry for thread hijack. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 7:14:01 PM EST
[#36]
Sounds good to me. Don't like it, don't join. Some people like to hang out in places that have standards.
What a crock comment. Who's standards Man's or Christ's? I tithe regularly however if I ran into a church like that and people in the church like that I would avoid them at all costs period. I would run hard and fast and not look back... Hand over your W2? You think that's ok? My church has standards it's just not a damn controlling cult. Some places have standards ie, some places like to control.... You're coming close on pushing me to go into one of my Infamous Arrogant Texan rants. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 7:45:20 PM EST
[#37]
Keep looking, that church is the wrong one! Tithing is voluntary, mandated tithing is soooooo wrong!
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Posted: 4/2/2014 8:25:50 PM EST
[#38]
That's a racket. Fuck that noise, and all those televangelists that get filthy rich preying on people like that.
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Posted: 4/2/2014 10:12:41 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Priests have to buy new suits somehow. Cadillacs ain't cheap either. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 10:53:57 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Need to find another church FPNI |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 11:06:59 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ask how many times Jesus was in a church. That will get them. Giving from the congregation is not supposed to be compelled. I believe Jesus wasn't a friend to those trying to make money (ran them off...). At any rate it is apparent that someone there is worshiping money over God. "No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." Have a nice day. SFC out. lol..Jesus was a Jew...he went to Synagogues...not Churches...seeing as how there wasn't any Christian churches at the time....and yes...He did spend quite a bit of time in the Synagogues. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 11:09:30 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I found out the pastor of my church is making 80k plus 1500 a month into his pension, we quit putting anything into the plate. That's like $1,800 and hour. Do you understand that a Pastor is working 24 hrs a day? |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 11:31:47 PM EST
[#43]
Quoted:
Local talk radio today discussed the fact that after two visits to a church a couple new to the area was approached by church members and told that in order to become members that had to bring in their W-2's and have a tithe (10%) automatically deducted? Anyone ever heard of this? We had a Assemblies of God church in our area that followed this business model. Recently, it dropped it's affiliation with Assemblies of God and has now become an independant type of church and calls itself "The Dwelling Place". I've heard that it's kept the same business model. I've wondered if they now have extra money since they don't have to pay anything to be a franchise. I've heard that you can attend as a guest for free (until they confront you about becoming a member) and members are mandatory 10%. If you can't pay, services provided to church in forms of various labor jobs are substituted for pay. In other news, Our local Methodist church has gone all "anti-gun" in a piss-a-person-off kind of way.
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Posted: 4/2/2014 11:50:56 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I mentioned in a thread a few weeks ago that I worked with someone who had to provide their W2 info (not tax info) to their church, for this very reason (tithing). Someone stated "that's a cult, not a church". I agree. Name of the church? |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 11:51:09 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am pretty sure a large black church in Killeen TX wants your W-2 to be a member. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I mentioned in a thread a few weeks ago that I worked with someone who had to provide their W2 info (not tax info) to their church, for this very reason (tithing). Someone stated "that's a cult, not a church". I agree. I am pretty sure a large black church in Killeen TX wants your W-2 to be a member. Name of the church? |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 11:51:31 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Several of the big MEGA churches in our area do that......some I've been told "recommend" that 15-20% of your salary be deducted and given to the church. Nothing but robbery!!
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Local talk radio today discussed the fact that after two visits to a church a couple new to the area was approached by church members and told that in order to become members that had to bring in their W-2's and have a tithe (10%) automatically deducted? Anyone ever heard of this? I think tithing (if that is the correct term) is admirable. I think the church forcing members to do so is ... missing the point. Thoughts? Several of the big MEGA churches in our area do that......some I've been told "recommend" that 15-20% of your salary be deducted and given to the church. Nothing but robbery!!
Names of the churches? |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 2:50:05 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What "audits" are you talking about? This is how the 40-odd yearly tithing settlements I have attended usually go: Bishop: Welcome, Brother GarandM1. How are you doing? How is your family? Is there anything we can do for you? Me: Thanks Small chit-chat for about 5 minutes on subjects covering everything from weather to BYU sports.... Bishop: Our records show you gave $XXXXXX to the church last year. Is this a full tithe? Me: Sure is. Bishop: Okay, have a Merry Christmas. That's pretty much it. Usually the family comes along. No pressure, no hype. If you don't want to attend, you don't have to. And you certainly don't bring your taxes and W-2 forms or any financial records whatsoever. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No posts from members in Utah yet... That's because the LDS Church allows you to donate whatever amount you wish and doesn't require verification if you claim it's 10% of your income. Why are members called to tithing settlement once a year and reminded to settle their unpaid tithes? Why are ward audits held? What "audits" are you talking about? This is how the 40-odd yearly tithing settlements I have attended usually go: Bishop: Welcome, Brother GarandM1. How are you doing? How is your family? Is there anything we can do for you? Me: Thanks Small chit-chat for about 5 minutes on subjects covering everything from weather to BYU sports.... Bishop: Our records show you gave $XXXXXX to the church last year. Is this a full tithe? Me: Sure is. Bishop: Okay, have a Merry Christmas. That's pretty much it. Usually the family comes along. No pressure, no hype. If you don't want to attend, you don't have to. And you certainly don't bring your taxes and W-2 forms or any financial records whatsoever. But you have to either say yes or lie to keep your temple recommend, right? |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 2:58:21 AM EST
[#48]
First thought
Fuck That Second thought, I have never given 10 percent to a church and will not. Third thought, They waste money just as fast as our government. Forth, I aint never met a preacher who was not a smart ass know it all lazy bastard Since government has taken over a lot of the works the church I am already "giving" my part. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 2:59:38 AM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We had a Assemblies of God church in our area that followed this business model. Recently, it dropped it's affiliation with Assemblies of God and has now become an independant type of church and calls itself "The Dwelling Place". I've heard that it's kept the same business model. I've wondered if they now have extra money since they don't have to pay anything to be a franchise. I've heard that you can attend as a guest for free (until they confront you about becoming a member) and members are mandatory 10%. If you can't pay, services provided to church in forms of various labor jobs are substituted for pay. In other news, Our local Methodist church has gone all "anti-gun" in a piss-a-person-off kind of way. In my opinion, the worst problem of churches these days. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 3:08:14 AM EST
[#50]
need to find a cheaper invisible friend to talk to....
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