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Posted: 4/3/2016 3:34:22 PM EDT
[#1]
I gotta say this thread has been a very interesting read.
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Posted: 4/3/2016 3:39:15 PM EDT
[#2]
...
She described her as "incredibly safety conscious", adding that no-one understood why "for that split second" she was not tethered. Sir Robin, who in 1969 became the first person to sail solo and non-stop around the world, told the BBC: "We've only had two fatalities in something like 4,000 people, in 10 races around the world. "It's a shock to all of us and we want to find out exactly why it happened. Why wasn't she hooked on? This is what I've got to establish." |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 3:49:02 PM EDT
[#3]
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I think people that take 20' sailboats in open water are nuts. In a sailboat your weather window has to be huge for a crossing of any kind, and weather windows like that simply don't exist. Some of my good friends have circumnavigated in a 36' sailboat. No thanks 
I'm working hard to upgrade to the 70' range now. will have 3'+ gunwales, and will still watch weather windows carefully. I like my water on the outside of the boat and me and my family on the inside.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I know of at least one 20ft boat that is common to find blue water sailing. eta...and I would love to have one. I think people that take 20' sailboats in open water are nuts. In a sailboat your weather window has to be huge for a crossing of any kind, and weather windows like that simply don't exist. Some of my good friends have circumnavigated in a 36' sailboat. No thanks
I'm working hard to upgrade to the 70' range now. will have 3'+ gunwales, and will still watch weather windows carefully. I like my water on the outside of the boat and me and my family on the inside.... Yeah, racing a 20 foot Melges in San Pedro Bay off Long Beach in 30+ knot winds and 6-8 foot swells was brutal. I couldn't imagine sailing a 20 footer in those conditions on the open ocean. The sea is no place for complacency and, like aviation, is unforgiving of mistakes. |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 3:50:18 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sad, but not clipping in is akin to going open wheel racing and not wearing a safety harness, it's just plain stupid. FWIW, if the skipper doesn't enforce safety rules on deck and clipping in, he's a total frikkin idiot and has partial responsibility. Skippers take a watch too and can't be on deck 24/7. That's where a good crew comes in. I did some Great Lakes sailing on a 35' sloop and a 44' yawl when I was younger and I know that you can't let your guard down even for a few seconds in open water. You think you're safe back in the cockpit and focus your attention on some small thing instead of the boat or the sea, and Bam ! something happens and you're off balance. I hadn't thought about it recently, but my "sea legs" are long gone. |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 3:51:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I gotta say this thread has been a very interesting read. Between Kenny, us-kiwi and others you have a mix of commercial operators, former racers and captains posting. They always bring a lot of knowledge to topics like this. |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 3:56:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, racing a 20 foot Melges in San Pedro Bay off Long Beach in 30+ knot winds and 6-8 foot swells was brutal. I couldn't imagine sailing a 20 footer in those conditions on the open ocean. The sea is no place for complacency and, like aviation, is unforgiving of mistakes. I've run boats the size of the one she was killed on in open water a good bit, and it's always a bit unnerving when seas build at all. I did a 7.5 hour run across seas approaching 10' two months ago, and was very happy to arrive in port that evening. There were a few 25' sailboats that came in the next morning with crew that looked shell-shocked. I generally think sailboaters are crazy anyway, but working on an open deck on the bow in open water just strikes me as a bad idea. It's what you have to do, though. |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 4:10:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's called a boat hook (IIRC) No, just a stick. But if a boat hook is all they got handy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Seems odd to me that someone is washed overboard and drowns, then they bring person back on ship, then throw person back into the ocean for burial. Why bother, person was already "buried at sea"? How else can they confirm death? Poke'em with a long stick? You mean the long stick they use for pull them back on board? That's called a boat hook (IIRC) No, just a stick. But if a boat hook is all they got handy. Sorry Im confused, can we use the same stick for poking, pulling them back on board, and pushing them back off? Three sticks? Perhaps 2 sticks with one double headed one would probably make a lot of sense. |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 4:19:00 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've run boats the size of the one she was killed on in open water a good bit, and it's always a bit unnerving when seas build at all. I did a 7.5 hour run across seas approaching 10' two months ago, and was very happy to arrive in port that evening. There were a few 25' sailboats that came in the next morning with crew that looked shell-shocked. I generally think sailboaters are crazy anyway, but working on an open deck on the bow in open water just strikes me as a bad idea. It's what you have to do, though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah, racing a 20 foot Melges in San Pedro Bay off Long Beach in 30+ knot winds and 6-8 foot swells was brutal. I couldn't imagine sailing a 20 footer in those conditions on the open ocean. The sea is no place for complacency and, like aviation, is unforgiving of mistakes. I've run boats the size of the one she was killed on in open water a good bit, and it's always a bit unnerving when seas build at all. I did a 7.5 hour run across seas approaching 10' two months ago, and was very happy to arrive in port that evening. There were a few 25' sailboats that came in the next morning with crew that looked shell-shocked. I generally think sailboaters are crazy anyway, but working on an open deck on the bow in open water just strikes me as a bad idea. It's what you have to do, though. Thanks for the compliments. Try going to the masthead, at night, to sort out a problem.  Sometimes, ya just gotta do what ya gotta do. Often times, I was the smallest guy on the boat, so I was going to the mast head, weather I wanted to, or not.  And my mechanical skills usually sealed the deal. But moving ocean-racing boats all around the world, along with the racing, was the best times of my life.  When I started out, as a general grunt, I thought that bowman, and the foredeck guys were just the tits. Then i got to try it, the glory faded as I got older. The back of the boat looked better and better. Sail trimming was the most fun - technical, thought-provoking, and intense. Getting older, I "forgot" how to do all the "tough guy" jobs. The only thing I 'remember' now, is how to steer and navigate. And how to cook, especially when it's shitty outside (up on deck). Everybody loves the cook when it's cold, wet, and nasty. |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 4:36:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the compliments. Try going to the masthead, at night, to sort out a problem.
Sometimes, ya just gotta do what ya gotta do. Often times, I was the smallest guy on the boat, so I was going to the mast head, weather I wanted to, or not.
And my mechanical skills usually sealed the deal. But moving ocean-racing boats all around the world, along with the racing, was the best times of my life.
When I started out, as a general grunt, I thought that bowman, and the foredeck guys were just the tits. Then i got to try it, the glory faded as I got older. The back of the boat looked better and better. Sail trimming was the most fun - technical, thought-provoking, and intense. Getting older, I "forgot" how to do all the "tough guy" jobs. The only thing I 'remember' now, is how to steer and navigate.
And how to cook, especially when it's shitty outside (up on deck). Everybody loves the cook when it's cold, wet, and nasty. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yeah, racing a 20 foot Melges in San Pedro Bay off Long Beach in 30+ knot winds and 6-8 foot swells was brutal. I couldn't imagine sailing a 20 footer in those conditions on the open ocean. The sea is no place for complacency and, like aviation, is unforgiving of mistakes. I've run boats the size of the one she was killed on in open water a good bit, and it's always a bit unnerving when seas build at all. I did a 7.5 hour run across seas approaching 10' two months ago, and was very happy to arrive in port that evening. There were a few 25' sailboats that came in the next morning with crew that looked shell-shocked. I generally think sailboaters are crazy anyway, but working on an open deck on the bow in open water just strikes me as a bad idea. It's what you have to do, though. Thanks for the compliments. Try going to the masthead, at night, to sort out a problem.
Sometimes, ya just gotta do what ya gotta do. Often times, I was the smallest guy on the boat, so I was going to the mast head, weather I wanted to, or not.
And my mechanical skills usually sealed the deal. But moving ocean-racing boats all around the world, along with the racing, was the best times of my life.
When I started out, as a general grunt, I thought that bowman, and the foredeck guys were just the tits. Then i got to try it, the glory faded as I got older. The back of the boat looked better and better. Sail trimming was the most fun - technical, thought-provoking, and intense. Getting older, I "forgot" how to do all the "tough guy" jobs. The only thing I 'remember' now, is how to steer and navigate.
And how to cook, especially when it's shitty outside (up on deck). Everybody loves the cook when it's cold, wet, and nasty. I still shit my pants when I have to do a sail change on a j105 in 25knots and 8 foot chop. |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 4:56:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Man, I wish I could do something like that, but would settle for sailing from FL to Bahamas on my bucketlist.
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Posted: 4/3/2016 5:11:01 PM EDT
[#11]
How would her death be handled legally?
There would have to be an investigation prior to a death certificate issued and wouldn't that be required before burial? What jurisdiction would this fall under? |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 5:20:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KC-130 FLT ENG:
How would her death be handled legally? There would have to be an investigation prior to a death certificate issued and wouldn't that be required before burial? What jurisdiction would this fall under? My understanding is that it would fall under the maritime law of the Country that the vessel was flagged under. Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken. ETA: here are the stats on the Ichor Coal Yacht. It looks like she's 70' long. S Young is listed on the crew. She is flagged in Great Britain. For those that are confused by the Inchor Coal name, here's an explanation. |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 5:44:17 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's not the Sarah Young I remember. This The one we remember had pretty good flotation devices |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 6:11:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seems odd to me that someone is washed overboard and drowns, then they bring person back on ship, then throw person back into the ocean for burial. Why bother, person was already "buried at sea"? In cases.of drowning or hypothermia, the person isn't.dead until the they are dry anfld empty of water (drowning) or warm (hypo). People survive the most amazing accidents. |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 6:33:50 PM EDT
[#15]
This is a trip on a 44 footer (sailboat). We sailed around the clock. Never wore a harness except at night.
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Posted: 4/3/2016 6:42:03 PM EDT
[#16]
From the article
"As a Team Sponsor the IchorCoal brand will be showcased around the world, helping the company to break into used markets.” There are eight legs of the Clipper Race, of which the second will see the fleet race from Rio de Janeiro in Brazil into Cape Town, South Africa. On board IchorCoal will be a diverse, international crew of various different ages and from many backgrounds and professions. The crew includes eight young South Africans from challenging backgrounds who won bursaries to join the Clipper Race crew through the Sapinda Rainbow Foundation. The youths will form a relay with each team member completing one race leg, developing skills that will help them throughout their future – personally and professionally. IchorCoal’s attributable annual coal production is currently more than 5-million tonnes of coal, and its plan is to produce over 15-million tonnes a year by 2017. The thermal coal product it mines is used exclusively in the burgeoning South African power generation industry. The company’s objective is to become the leading dedicated producer of thermal coal in sub-Saharan Africa. IchorCoal will be skippered by British sailor Darren Ladd, from Somerset, UK. Darren will be the only professional sailor on board, leading his international crew of amateurs on their 11-month 40,000-mile voyage across the world’s toughest oceans. People from around the world and from all walks of life compete in the Clipper Round the World Yacht Race. 690 crew members – representing more than 40 nationalities – are set to take part in Clipper 2015-16 Race, which starts Sunday 30 August from St Katharine Docks, London. The Clipper Race fleet is made up of twelve identical 70-foot ocean racers with each one sponsored by a different destination or brand." What could possibly go wrong, in the middle of the ocean, with a crew like that.?  I realize that they have a pretty rigorous training program, but 4 1 week sessions? From novice to ocean racer in 4 weeks? Lots of on-the-job training, especially the first leg. |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 6:43:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BTW, this is the SECOND PERSON TO GET DEAD ON THIS SAME BOAT IN THIS SAME RACE! I don't wan't to be paranoid, but the whole thing sounds a little fishy. 
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Posted: 4/3/2016 7:04:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't wan't to be paranoid, but the whole thing sounds a little fishy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: BTW, this is the SECOND PERSON TO GET DEAD ON THIS SAME BOAT IN THIS SAME RACE! I don't wan't to be paranoid, but the whole thing sounds a little fishy. Just two separate, unrelated accidents, in 2 different oceans. Just happened to be on the same boat. Both happened related to reefing the mainsail, a very common task that is done many, many times, as the weather changes. Like everything related to handling a sailboat of this size and power, done correctly, a pretty simple task. However, a gear failure, or people screw-up, can turn it into a 'project'. The 'official' incident reports, if ever published, will be interesting reading. |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 7:09:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is a trip on a 44 footer (sailboat). We sailed around the clock. Never wore a harness except at night. http://i.imgur.com/2caLsrb.jpg?1 So, you were not planning on falling overboard during the day. 'The only time you get off the boat, is when the masthead you are standing on, goes underwater.' |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 7:50:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Never wore a harness except at night. So you wore a life vest - just no harness? |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 7:54:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just two separate, unrelated accidents, in 2 different oceans. Just happened to be on the same boat. Both happened related to reefing the mainsail, a very common task that is done many, many times, as the weather changes. Like everything related to handling a sailboat of this size and power, done correctly, a pretty simple task. However, a gear failure, or people screw-up, can turn it into a 'project'. The 'official' incident reports, if ever published, will be interesting reading. Just nit-picking, but two (very unusual) things happening on the same boat are NOT unrelated. There are many things that may relate them, such as poor training or unsafe practices. Statistics say these two incidences probably have some things in common. And yes- the accident report will be interesting. If anybody does a thorough maritime investigation, it's the Brits! |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 7:58:19 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is a trip on a 44 footer (sailboat). We sailed around the clock. Never wore a harness except at night. http://i.imgur.com/2caLsrb.jpg?1 There's a big difference between cruising down the east coast with the CG close by versus being out in the middle of the Atlantic in heavy weather. |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 8:06:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a big difference between cruising down the east coast with the CG close by versus being out in the middle of the Atlantic in heavy weather. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is a trip on a 44 footer (sailboat). We sailed around the clock. Never wore a harness except at night. http://i.imgur.com/2caLsrb.jpg?1 There's a big difference between cruising down the east coast with the CG close by versus being out in the middle of the Atlantic in heavy weather. Depends on how far you can swim, or maybe how long you can stay afloat for. Yes the Coast Guard does some excellent work, saving people off the coast. Sometimes those people should not have been there to start off with.  |
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Posted: 4/4/2016 5:14:12 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just two separate, unrelated accidents, in 2 different oceans. Just happened to be on the same boat. Both happened related to reefing the mainsail, a very common task that is done many, many times, as the weather changes. Like everything related to handling a sailboat of this size and power, done correctly, a pretty simple task. However, a gear failure, or people screw-up, can turn it into a 'project'. The 'official' incident reports, if ever published, will be interesting reading. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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BTW, this is the SECOND PERSON TO GET DEAD ON THIS SAME BOAT IN THIS SAME RACE! I don't wan't to be paranoid, but the whole thing sounds a little fishy. Just two separate, unrelated accidents, in 2 different oceans. Just happened to be on the same boat. Both happened related to reefing the mainsail, a very common task that is done many, many times, as the weather changes. Like everything related to handling a sailboat of this size and power, done correctly, a pretty simple task. However, a gear failure, or people screw-up, can turn it into a 'project'. The 'official' incident reports, if ever published, will be interesting reading. As they say, "Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is an enemy action." |
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