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Posted: 7/29/2024 10:55:42 AM EST
[#1]
Here's a good cop breakdown on it someone sent me.
 De-Escalation And Tactical Failure In The Sonya Massey Incident You can find the raw unedited video here hosted by the Illinois State Police (can't embed b/c they disabled that ability): https://youtu.be/HFun2GydGyU?si=c6owzGjbdb3fqonH |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 11:03:15 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is the moment the shooter says I'll shoot you in the fucking face. She was removing the pot from the heat, or fiddling with it - whatever. She made no threat, either verbally or physically w/ the pot, or anything else. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/277223/droppot1-3280048.png This is the moment the shooter pulls his gun. She has said nothing else. She looks afraid. She has not turned around w/ the pot, nor attempted to throw it, chase them w/ it, etc. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/277223/notholdingpot-3274780.png Yes, she did say something "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus" then repeated it. It's a damned weird thing to say. Then at 0:59 on the uncut video when she draws her hands back she has something vaguely rectangular in them. I'm betting that's when the pot and dropping the pot she wasn't actually holding became the focus. I gotta get back to work, so can't try to to post the pics but watch right as her arms recoil. |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 11:07:40 AM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, she did say something "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus" then repeated it. It's a damned weird thing to say. Then at 0:59 on the uncut video when she draws her hands back she has something vaguely rectangular in them. I'm betting that's when the pot and dropping the pot she wasn't actually holding became the focus. I think it is even weirder to point a gun and kill a 90 pound old lady after you were called there to help her. Their ID fetish caused this entire situation. Where was the de-escalation? |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 11:12:10 AM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it is even weirder to point a gun and kill a 90 pound old lady after you were called there to help her. Their ID fetish caused this entire situation. Where was the de-escalation? Last word from me: I agree. Her response was weird and his going to that level of response was also weird. Bad things happened from there and he I think deserves a lot of blame for it getting there. |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 11:14:13 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Last word from me: I agree. Her response was weird and his going to that level of response was also weird. Bad things happened from there and he I think deserves a lot of blame for it getting there. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think it is even weirder to point a gun and kill a 90 pound old lady after you were called there to help her. Their ID fetish caused this entire situation. Where was the de-escalation? Last word from me: I agree. Her response was weird and his going to that level of response was also weird. Bad things happened from there and he I think deserves a lot of blame for it getting there. Her response is that of a person who is in sudden fear for her life by the people she called for help from when she has no idea why. Expecting radional responses from someone you just put into a flight or flight response is the height of absurdity. |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 11:17:37 AM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you. Yeah, I'm going with he saw the mitt as 'the pot'. She wasn't holding the pot but he saw her hands come up with a red rectangle in them and that became 'the pot' in his head then she dove below the counter. I can't see the toss from that angle but there is another where you can see her fling the pot so I think she grabbed it after she dove down and made the worst call ever to throw it at them. It sucks and I do feel bad for her. It's not 1st degree murder though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you. Yeah, I'm going with he saw the mitt as 'the pot'. She wasn't holding the pot but he saw her hands come up with a red rectangle in them and that became 'the pot' in his head then she dove below the counter. I can't see the toss from that angle but there is another where you can see her fling the pot so I think she grabbed it after she dove down and made the worst call ever to throw it at them. It sucks and I do feel bad for her. It's not 1st degree murder though. I suspect she grabbed it as she was trying to do what the derranged man who just threatened to kill her ordered her to do. Just like Shaver, we have the police putting innocent people into an impossible position then killing them for not meeting unobtainable standards of human response. The fact that too many cops see that as "lawful but aweful" is shocking to the public and will lead to more restrictions on police behavour that the bad cops who good cops have "not defeneded" will 100% have earned themselves. |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 11:26:52 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Prosecutors love to say (to Jurys) "premeditation can be formed in an instant," when trying to convict non LEOS of first degree murder. I also don't agree that he should be convicted of first degree murder though. And these things don't happen in a vacuum. This guy was trained to be this jumpy. Just like the acorn cop, and many, many others. They shouldn't be able to just throw these cops under the bus as if they didn't create them in the first place. Lawyers can chime at what point does the shooter become responsible for the decision to shoot IF the threat of deadly force was not there? So, for argument purposes, the officer is wrong in the threat posed, he intended in the moment to kill the deceased. I’m guessing that’s the premeditation can be formed in an instant. Then the next question would be what amount of culpability would it be? How much does a mistake become premeditated or accident? 1st degree does seem high in this situation. 2nd degree or manslaughter seems more appropriate. I don’t think he’s blameless. I thought there was a push to move away from the Dinkheller training and more towards de-escalation ? |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 12:03:36 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it is even weirder to point a gun and kill a 90 pound old lady after you were called there to help her. Their ID fetish caused this entire situation. Where was the de-escalation? When he already decided he wanted to shoot the poor woman in the face, why would he deescalate? Besides, there was no behavior to deescalate, the woman was calm and speaking in a soft/normal tone. She seemed to be the one deliberately maintaining a calm demeanor to deescalate the violent retard in her home. She sensed the danger and wanted her Bible for comfort the moment that shit bag walked in. |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 12:18:09 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is the moment the shooter says I'll shoot you in the fucking face. She was removing the pot from the heat, or fiddling with it - whatever. She made no threat, either verbally or physically w/ the pot, or anything else. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/277223/droppot1-3280048.png This is the moment the shooter pulls his gun. She has said nothing else. She looks afraid. She has not turned around w/ the pot, nor attempted to throw it, chase them w/ it, etc. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/277223/droppot2-3280054.png When she realizes she's about to be shot, she begins to react - not by coming at him w/ the pot, nor attempting to throw it, but sort of recoils and begins to duck down. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/277223/droppot3-3280058.png Then she raises her hands and says, I'm sorry. Pot is not in her hands. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/277223/droptheeffingpot-3280062.png Then, even after raising her hands (w/ no pot) and saying I'm sorry, and ducking down (w/out the pot), the 2nd officer also draws down on her and shouts to drop the pot: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/277223/droppot4-3280063.png The pot that she is NOT HOLDING: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/277223/notholdingpot-3274780.png And there you have it. bad shoot |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 12:22:43 PM EST
[#10]
Two DUIs, kicked out of the Army, six departments in a few short years, poor previous performance noted - who the fuck is hiring guys like this. Can they really not find better candidates?
I guess I answered my own question. |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 1:05:39 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Two DUIs, kicked out of the Army, six departments in a few short years, poor previous performance noted - who the fuck is hiring guys like this. Can they really not find better candidates? I guess I answered my own question. The department is going to pay dearly. Monell vs New York. 
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Posted: 7/29/2024 1:21:58 PM EST
[#12]
I put together all the screenshots in sequential order on X. I realized that when the shots were fired by Grayson, the other deputy's muzzle was pointed at Grayson's back. So probably good for both of them that he didn't shoot.
https://x.com/johnbryanesq/status/1817972814638637419 |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 1:29:24 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lawyers can chime at what point does the shooter become responsible for the decision to shoot IF the threat of deadly force was not there? So, for argument purposes, the officer is wrong in the threat posed, he intended in the moment to kill the deceased. I'm guessing that's the premeditation can be formed in an instant. Then the next question would be what amount of culpability would it be? How much does a mistake become premeditated or accident? 1st degree does seem high in this situation. 2nd degree or manslaughter seems more appropriate. I don't think he's blameless. I thought there was a push to move away from the Dinkheller training and more towards de-escalation ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Prosecutors love to say (to Jurys) "premeditation can be formed in an instant," when trying to convict non LEOS of first degree murder. I also don't agree that he should be convicted of first degree murder though. And these things don't happen in a vacuum. This guy was trained to be this jumpy. Just like the acorn cop, and many, many others. They shouldn't be able to just throw these cops under the bus as if they didn't create them in the first place. Lawyers can chime at what point does the shooter become responsible for the decision to shoot IF the threat of deadly force was not there? So, for argument purposes, the officer is wrong in the threat posed, he intended in the moment to kill the deceased. I'm guessing that's the premeditation can be formed in an instant. Then the next question would be what amount of culpability would it be? How much does a mistake become premeditated or accident? 1st degree does seem high in this situation. 2nd degree or manslaughter seems more appropriate. I don't think he's blameless. I thought there was a push to move away from the Dinkheller training and more towards de-escalation ? In Illinois, premeditation in the form of planning is not a requirement. But, once he said "I'm gonna shoot you in the face!", and then does, he pretty much locks down 1 and/or 2. Sec. 9-1. First degree murder. (a) A person who kills an individual without lawful justification commits first degree murder if, in performing the acts which cause the death: (1) he or she either intends to kill or do great bodily harm to that individual or another, or knows that such acts will cause death to that individual or another; or (2) he or she knows that such acts create a strong probability of death or great bodily harm to that individual or another; or (3) he or she, acting alone or with one or more participants, commits or attempts to commit a forcible felony other than second degree murder, and in the course of or in furtherance of such crime or flight therefrom, he or she or another participant causes the death of a person. |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 1:32:32 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The department is going to pay dearly. Monell vs New York. Lol. Nobody on the department is going to lose a cent. Maybe the chief resigns but the money is coming straight out of the pockets of the citizens that tolerated a shitty department and any insurance company dumb enough to have them for a client. |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 1:33:13 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: INAL In Illinois, premeditation in the form of planning is not a requirement. But, once he said "I'm gonna shoot you in the face!", and then does, he pretty much locks down 1 and/or 2. Sec. 9-1. First degree murder. (a) A person who kills an individual without lawful justification commits first degree murder if, in performing the acts which cause the death: (1) he or she either intends to kill or do great bodily harm to that individual or another, or knows that such acts will cause death to that individual or another; or (2) he or she knows that such acts create a strong probability of death or great bodily harm to that individual or another; or (3) he or she, acting alone or with one or more participants, commits or attempts to commit a forcible felony other than second degree murder, and in the course of or in furtherance of such crime or flight therefrom, he or she or another participant causes the death of a person. Let's not jump to conclusions. Cops aren't paramedics and can't be expected to know what harm can come to citizens from their actions. Does he have documented training where he was instructed that shooting someone in their fucking face has a strong probability of death or great bodily harm? |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 1:39:48 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Two DUIs, kicked out of the Army, six departments in a few short years, poor previous performance noted - who the fuck is hiring guys like this. Can they really not find better candidates? I guess I answered my own question. The sheriff needs to go. Surprised he hasn’t resigned to avoid the embarrassment of the investigation. |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 1:47:23 PM EST
[#17]
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Posted: 7/29/2024 1:57:17 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryWould his lawyer want to consider a guilty plea and beg for mercy? |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 2:30:34 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I put together all the screenshots in sequential order on X. I realized that when the shots were fired by Grayson, the other deputy's muzzle was pointed at Grayson's back. So probably good for both of them that he didn't shoot. Okay, what happens if other deputy shoots Grayson in the vest? 1. Massey lives. 2. Grayson doesn't get prosecuted, or fired (yet). 3. Other deputy gets derisively called "copshooter" by other cops, is forced to find a new career. 4. Branca makes a video explaining that it was a good shoot because Grayson had no legal right to draw down on Massey, and Grayson presented a legitimate and immediate threat of death or bodily harm to Massey. |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 5:16:17 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably not. I'm sure Mr Skull tats wishes he wasn't one now and probably didn't need to be one at all. However I don't see it the way some are arguing it. They were allowed inside while she looked for ID (if they REALLY needed it I don't know). They asked her to turn off the stove. She picked up a pot of liquid that had been on the stove and then with it in hand made a rather odd and potentially threatening statement which would certainly put me on edge were I seeing it. It all goes sideways after that because she's not all there and they get locked into 'threat' mode. I don't see anything there that looks like police barged into her home and executed her for no reason or with malice. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I get that they got into the "we need to get ID" loop. I sure hope that ID card is worth the officer defending his freedom in court. Why they didn't just go back in service after verifying there was no prowler is a damn mystery. Probably not. I'm sure Mr Skull tats wishes he wasn't one now and probably didn't need to be one at all. However I don't see it the way some are arguing it. They were allowed inside while she looked for ID (if they REALLY needed it I don't know). They asked her to turn off the stove. She picked up a pot of liquid that had been on the stove and then with it in hand made a rather odd and potentially threatening statement which would certainly put me on edge were I seeing it. It all goes sideways after that because she's not all there and they get locked into 'threat' mode. I don't see anything there that looks like police barged into her home and executed her for no reason or with malice. The officer made the initial statement that he was afraid of her water. She made a statement, possibly even a joke, of rebuke. She could've been rebuking the water. I've done that in jest with an angry looking hard boil. She could've been rebuking the spirit making him think she would do such a thing; similar to, "Perish the thought!" She could've been serious about rebuking him. However, NONE of those situations makes the rebuke in any way, shape, or form a threat. To call that rebuke a threat is ridiculous, even if she's holding a pot of hot water, especially a good distance away. The only things such a rebuke is a threat to are demons and other evil spirits. What was the deal with what looked like and sounded like water being ran? Was she running cold water into the pot? Did she dump out most of the contents and then refill with mostly cold? Any substantial amount of cold water added would've reduced the water temperature. Frankly, I think she was joking with them as she thought they were. That fits right in with her dropping down with her hands up and apologizing so much. She possibly thought they were joking but when the threat to shoot her in the face came, she realized that she misunderstood the interaction. IMHO, this is first degree murder. The officers set the tone and stage. The shooter ramped everything up to 100 in short order. The officers are the professionals so they are expected to perform their functions differently than the individual. |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 5:25:19 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Prosecutors love to say (to Jurys) "premeditation can be formed in an instant," when trying to convict non LEOS of first degree murder. I also don't agree that he should be convicted of first degree murder though. And these things don't happen in a vacuum. This guy was trained to be this jumpy. Just like the acorn cop, and many, many others. They shouldn't be able to just throw these cops under the bus as if they didn't create them in the first place. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Fucking sad that the front porch conversation was seconds away from ending and the police leaving when the shooter cop mentally circled back and ask about the car in the driveway. He goes into investigation mode and escalates the rest of the encounter. He does start to come off in that moment as a cop that is going to find something to hang on her too. Yeah, something about the car made him decide to keep pressing it sadly. The water thing is certainly odd the way it all goes down and his response seems over-amped. Probably would have gone differently too if she had just turned off the stove and left the pot alone. I don't hear them tell her to move the pot as some comments are saying. I do think the cop went over-the top in his response. He felt the lady was 'off' and went to 11 on the dial over her being weird while holding the pot of hot water. I'm only stating that I don't see this as 1st degree murder. There were circumstances that led to the cop's reaction. He was not there to kill him someone that night. Prosecutors love to say (to Jurys) "premeditation can be formed in an instant," when trying to convict non LEOS of first degree murder. I also don't agree that he should be convicted of first degree murder though. And these things don't happen in a vacuum. This guy was trained to be this jumpy. Just like the acorn cop, and many, many others. They shouldn't be able to just throw these cops under the bus as if they didn't create them in the first place. That's a very good point but I would consider that more on the civil suit side than the criminal. The officer has to be 100% in control of his intentional actions so he has to be 100% criminally liable for his criminal actions. He set up the situation. He escalated the situation. He issued a threat of serious bodily injury or death after hearing something that could not be reasonably construed as a threat to anything but an evil spirit. The physical threat observed was simply too far away at the time and there were obstructions between when he issued his threat. The aggressor here, IMHO, was the shooter. He made his intent clearly known and it was recorded on government issued and maintained recording equipment. Very quickly after issuing the threat, he made good on it and shot her just as he said he was going to. I think criminally charging him with premeditated murder fits with what the evidence is showing. |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 5:31:17 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suspect she grabbed it as she was trying to do what the derranged man who just threatened to kill her ordered her to do. Just like Shaver, we have the police putting innocent people into an impossible position then killing them for not meeting unobtainable standards of human response. The fact that too many cops see that as "lawful but aweful" is shocking to the public and will lead to more restrictions on police behavour that the bad cops who good cops have "not defeneded" will 100% have earned themselves. I agree. |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 5:50:51 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Two DUIs, kicked out of the Army, six departments in a few short years, poor previous performance noted - who the fuck is hiring guys like this. Can they really not find better candidates? I guess I answered my own question. Quote HistoryQuoted: Two DUIs, kicked out of the Army, six departments in a few short years, poor previous performance noted - who the fuck is hiring guys like this. Can they really not find better candidates? I guess I answered my own question. Governments just keep hiring & retaining individuals like Grayson, no matter their sordid history. I don't see it changing, so I guess I'm jaded about it at this point. Don't invite "the man" into your life. She did, & look what it got her. Quoted: I put together all the screenshots in sequential order on X. I realized that when the shots were fired by Grayson, the other deputy's muzzle was pointed at Grayson's back. So probably good for both of them that he didn't shoot. https://x.com/johnbryanesq/status/1817972814638637419 I watched this a couple hrs after you first posted it on YT. Figured it would find it's way here, but wanted to see if there were further developments on the story. |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 5:55:00 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some stills from the body cam vid very briefly show her with the pot raised and tipped forward, mid-throw. From a crouched position. Whether that establishes a significant enough threat will be debated. That is fine. The question is why did he draw his gun in the first place? He raised it in response to something like “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus.” I don't think that warranted drawing his pistol. It was only after that she ducked down, then got up, grabbed the pot and threw it. If she just threw it before he pulled his pistol I could understand the shooting. I don't see her making any reasonably threatening behavior prior to the officer drawing his pistol. |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 8:43:07 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Governments just keep hiring & retaining individuals like Grayson, no matter their sordid history. I don't see it changing, so I guess I'm jaded about it at this point. I'm starting to wonder if governments don't hire them because they are broken. |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 11:15:06 PM EST
[#26]
Sangamon County, Illinois sheriff: "We failed" Sonya Massey
 Sangamon County, Illinois sheriff: "We failed" Sonya Massey |
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Posted: 7/29/2024 11:59:38 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sangamon County, Illinois sheriff: "We failed" Sonya Massey  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6SZ2nLeNJk |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 3:41:56 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm starting to wonder if governments don't hire them because they are broken. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Governments just keep hiring & retaining individuals like Grayson, no matter their sordid history. I don't see it changing, so I guess I'm jaded about it at this point. I'm starting to wonder if governments don't hire them because they are broken. Both are broken, & there's certainly a codependency dynamic at play WRT hiring. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 5:02:20 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, she did say something "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus" then repeated it. It's a damned weird thing to say. . She repeated it because she was talking to nonmurdercop and murdercop yelled "what?" and grabbed his gun. She wasn't chanting ritualistically. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 5:38:38 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Two DUIs, kicked out of the Army, six departments in a few short years, poor previous performance noted - who the fuck is hiring guys like this. Can they really not find better candidates? I guess I answered my own question. 
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Posted: 7/30/2024 6:59:10 AM EST
[#31]
Follow-up from Southern Drawl Law, with the first half being a good frame-by-frame analysis.
 The Murder of Sonya Massey: Bodycam Breakdown |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 9:38:44 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. Nobody on the department is going to lose a cent. Maybe the chief resigns but the money is coming straight out of the pockets of the citizens that tolerated a shitty department and any insurance company dumb enough to have them for a client. One of the big reasons our legal(not justice system sucks) is that the state agents have no "skin in the game." |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 11:54:07 AM EST
[#33]
 Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 12:12:20 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryIt's nice of the Sheriff to apologize with empty words and not resigning over the deputy that his organization hired. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 12:23:00 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryDear Lord, this is not looking any better for officer. he really fooked up, imo. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 12:31:05 PM EST
[#36]
His chain of command up to the mayor should be worried. What’s the record payout by a municipality prior to this one?
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Posted: 7/30/2024 12:40:50 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Two DUIs, kicked out of the Army, six departments in a few short years, poor previous performance noted - who the fuck is hiring guys like this. Can they really not find better candidates? I guess I answered my own question. I saw that this morning and wondered if any of the JBT's would be back in here, yes you lowcountry-whatever, to eat your share of humble pie. Or do you guys want to continue defending this piece of garbage? |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 12:43:37 PM EST
[#38]
Quote History Illinois deputy who shot Sonya Massey disobeyed order on high-speed chase in earlier job |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 12:49:11 PM EST
[#39]
Right or wrong he's going into the volcano now for the sins, real or imagined, of all police officers
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Posted: 7/30/2024 12:50:15 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dear Lord, this is not looking any better for officer. he really fooked up, imo. Quote HistoryQuoted: Dear Lord, this is not looking any better for officer. he really fooked up, imo. We knew that one from day one. Quoted: Someone commented after reading the full autopsy report: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/32274/Screenshot_2024-07-29_at_11-45-09_Bodyca-3280193.JPG Massey Autopsy Report That poor woman. Dude is gonna go for life, I bet since he discouraged his partner from rendering emergency first aid because “it’s a head shot” On a side note: any EMT b’s or paramedics care to comment on protocol for staunching Bleeding on a head wound? |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 1:01:46 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right or wrong he's going into the volcano now for the sins, real or imagined, of all police officers I see it a little differently. He is in trouble for shooting a woman in the fucking face. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 1:09:07 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We knew that one from day one. That poor woman. Dude is gonna go for life, I bet since he discouraged his partner from rendering emergency first aid because “it’s a head shot” On a side note: any EMT b’s or paramedics care to comment on protocol for staunching Bleeding on a head wound? In this case, direct pressure on the common carotid artery, don’t lift to check. Full blood pressure there so push hard. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 1:13:53 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In this case, direct pressure on the common carotid artery, don’t lift to check. Full blood pressure there so push hard. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We knew that one from day one. That poor woman. Dude is gonna go for life, I bet since he discouraged his partner from rendering emergency first aid because “it’s a head shot” On a side note: any EMT b’s or paramedics care to comment on protocol for staunching Bleeding on a head wound? In this case, direct pressure on the common carotid artery, don’t lift to check. Full blood pressure there so push hard. And drive fast. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 1:14:30 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And drive fast. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: We knew that one from day one. That poor woman. Dude is gonna go for life, I bet since he discouraged his partner from rendering emergency first aid because “it’s a head shot” On a side note: any EMT b’s or paramedics care to comment on protocol for staunching Bleeding on a head wound? In this case, direct pressure on the common carotid artery, don’t lift to check. Full blood pressure there so push hard. And drive fast. Diesel therapy is indicated. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 1:37:23 PM EST
[#45]
Something I thought about concerning the multiple departments and being chaptered out of the military.
As someone who served I know the idea of getting out in conditions other than dishonorable are often offered as sort of a plea deal. As in "you leave without trouble and we won't put in the work to hang you on this" So it's not uncommon for lots of people who got in trouble to have left under conditions less than honorable but not dishonorable. I'm sure there is a similar process for law enforcement. Leave without trouble and you don't get dragged through the mud on this. However, as shown for this guy. He never learned the lesson. it seems there is an increasing amount of people who don't learn the lesson. So the idea of not hammering these folks is just laziness on the part of these institutions. More than training. Putting in the work to bring consequences to those who run afoul of the rules is necessary if the culture is to change. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 1:42:25 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right or wrong he's going into the volcano now for the sins, real or imagined, of all police officers |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 4:52:48 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right or wrong he's going into the volcano now for the sins, real or imagined, of all police officers Indeed.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 5:12:06 PM EST
[#48]
Two things have been bugging me about current trends covering this case (Crump, etc) and what may arise out of it.
When the John Crawford III shooting happened a decade ago in Beavercreek Ohio, a friend of mine had been organizing protests for perhaps a month or more before BLM showed up. It was, of course, a protest that included open carry. We hadn't really heard much of BLM and certainly didn't know they were filthy commies. My friend invited them to join with open arms. My daughter and I even took over the police department with them one evening. During that take-over, I learned just how astro-turf, planned, under-handed, and communist the group was. They originally had talked all about how important open carry and all other rights were. We met his family on several occasions at the protest sites and they all agreed that it was important not to hinder gun rights as a result of our efforts. Over the year, they started ostracizing our members and eventually pushing them out completely. At the end of things a year later, they got gun control legislation passed that would've made John Crawford guilty of a crime had it been in place when he was shot. 1) So, whenever I find myself agreeing with the commie press and other prominent useful idiots, I become concerned that I am somehow being duped. My opinion is that this was a very bad shoot and murder charges are warranted. However, I am also suspicious because that is what the commies are also saying. Typically, I've seen them ignore the truly criminal cases while they prop up a case that requires lies and manipulation to get them where they are going. 2) What is the likely outcome, IMHO? Less good candidates want to take on the job of peace officer. More racist policies and DEI because of the way the left is framing this as racial. I don't think this shooting was racially motivated in any way. TL;DR - I am nervous to climb on board with communists because they always seem to screw everybody in the end and society ends up worse off. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 11:18:27 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 2) What is the likely outcome, IMHO? Less good candidates want to take on the job of peace officer. More racist policies and DEI because of the way the left is framing this as racial. I don't think this shooting was racially motivated in any way. We can't ignore a literal psychopath murdering an old woman because we are afraid that hypothetical people will not want to become cops. I see this as we are agreeing with commies because this is fucked up to everyone that doesn't have a badge. |
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Posted: 7/30/2024 11:39:13 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suspect she grabbed it as she was trying to do what the derranged man who just threatened to kill her ordered her to do. Just like Shaver, we have the police putting innocent people into an impossible position then killing them for not meeting unobtainable standards of human response. The fact that too many cops see that as "lawful but aweful" is shocking to the public and will lead to more restrictions on police behavour that the bad cops who good cops have "not defeneded" will 100% have earned themselves. It’s not going to change until voters elect lawmakers who will pass an ironclad “do not fire until fired upon” ROE for law enforcement. Every cop skinning his sidearm without a lethal threat present is fired, arrested for aggravated assault and tried. Yeah, we will have fewer cops and they’ll be more expensive. I’d rather have that than roided-up amateurs. |
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