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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:02:54 PM EDT
[#1]
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No. It is a statement that there are cops who lie. Because of that a cops' statement has no more absolute credibility than a woman who cries rape. Too many cries of wolf ruined their credibility. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think what some fail to realize is that some times the police fail to tell the truth such as the case of the two dogs that were shot at the mayor's house - one in the back of the hind leg. Yet the officers maintained it was acting aggressive toward them when they shot it. Then the police department investigation clears the officer of any wrongdoing and then in the mayor's case the forensic investigation on the dog shows the bullet entry from the rear as well as another officer corroborating the story of being shot from behind and they still don't acknowledge their lies AND the police chief says he would do it again tonight. 
A rotten apple spoils the whole barrel yet a lot of the good apples are in denial about the rotten apples being rotten. If theres specific evidence that an officer lied in a particular instance then certainly there needs to be consequences. The problem is that you have some folks in these threads saying that they never believe LE Just a manifestation of their general anti-social and anti-authority personalities No. It is a statement that there are cops who lie. Because of that a cops' statement has no more absolute credibility than a woman who cries rape. Too many cries of wolf ruined their credibility. I had a police officer lie in court about a traffic ticket. The judge knew it too by the way I reacted and the way the officer reacted and told me I could appeal his decision to the next level if I didn't agree with it. Sure, I'm going to spend $500 to try and fight an $80 speeding ticket. Is that saying all police are liars - NO. But it also tells me all police officers aren't honest either. |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:05:25 PM EDT
[#2]
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the cops went home shocked to find all of their pets massacred. Theres a big click for you too |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:05:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The USPS has the luxury of simply not delivering mail to an address with a hostile dog and telling the homeowner to come to the hub to get their mail. We can't do the same Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ]I delivered mail for many years. Did I want dogs biting me? No. Did I get bit? Yes. Did any dogs die? No. I have had more contact with aggressive dogs than you. The PO gave us pepper spray. I never carried it. How did I survive with out a glock? On the routes I ran I had a pair of Dobermans, a pack of 3 rotts, numerous pitts, a very beautiful cane corso, 2 different mastiffs, and a shitpile of blue and red healers. I had half my nipple ripped off by a springer spaniel as a kid. I still won't shoot a dog. Some cops take the easiest way out of a problem because they can. They are self centered pussies. The USPS has the luxury of simply not delivering mail to an address with a hostile dog and telling the homeowner to come to the hub to get their mail. We can't do the same Police have no legal requirement to investigate a burglary call. Heck, police aren't even legally required to enforce a court order ala Castle Rock vs Gonzales. Also, Warren vs DC, no specific legal duty exists between the police and an individual.
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:08:09 PM EDT
[#4]
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Liar Police have no legal requirement to investigate a burglary call. Heck, police aren't even legally required to enforce a court order ala Castle Rock vs Gonzales. Also, Warren vs DC, no specific legal duty exists between the police and an individual. You guys love to cite court cases that were ruled the way they were because the reality is that police can't logistically be everywhere However, if I refused a call for no justifiable reason I'd be suspended And since you're calling me a liar here s a click for you too |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:11:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guys love to cite court cases that were ruled the way they were because the reality is that police can't logistically be everywhere However, if I refused a call for no justifiable reason I'd be suspended And since you're calling me a liar here s a click for you too Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Liar Police have no legal requirement to investigate a burglary call. Heck, police aren't even legally required to enforce a court order ala Castle Rock vs Gonzales. Also, Warren vs DC, no specific legal duty exists between the police and an individual. You guys love to cite court cases that were ruled the way they were because the reality is that police can't logistically be everywhere However, if I refused a call for no justifiable reason I'd be suspended And since you're calling me a liar here s a click for you too Perhaps, if you don't like reading posts from people who disagree with you, you might enjoy the BOTS forum better.  |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:14:22 PM EDT
[#6]
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Perhaps, if you don't like reading posts from people who disagree with you, you might enjoy the BOTS forum better.
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Liar Police have no legal requirement to investigate a burglary call. Heck, police aren't even legally required to enforce a court order ala Castle Rock vs Gonzales. Also, Warren vs DC, no specific legal duty exists between the police and an individual. You guys love to cite court cases that were ruled the way they were because the reality is that police can't logistically be everywhere However, if I refused a call for no justifiable reason I'd be suspended And since you're calling me a liar here s a click for you too Perhaps, if you don't like reading posts from people who disagree with you, you might enjoy the BOTS forum better.
He does seem to be a bit "sensitive" doesn't he. |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:15:10 PM EDT
[#7]
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Perhaps, if you don't like reading posts from people who disagree with you, you might enjoy the BOTS forum better.
I don't appreciate being called a liar Do you? |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:16:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't appreciate being called a liar Do you? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Perhaps, if you don't like reading posts from people who disagree with you, you might enjoy the BOTS forum better. I don't appreciate being called a liar Do you? I was called a monkey on the last page by one of your fellow LEOs. I'm not even mad.  |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:17:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Perhaps, if you don't like reading posts from people who disagree with you, you might enjoy the BOTS forum better.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Liar Police have no legal requirement to investigate a burglary call. Heck, police aren't even legally required to enforce a court order ala Castle Rock vs Gonzales. Also, Warren vs DC, no specific legal duty exists between the police and an individual. You guys love to cite court cases that were ruled the way they were because the reality is that police can't logistically be everywhere However, if I refused a call for no justifiable reason I'd be suspended And since you're calling me a liar here s a click for you too Perhaps, if you don't like reading posts from people who disagree with you, you might enjoy the BOTS forum better.
I see a big click in your future too.
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:18:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see a big click in your future too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Liar Police have no legal requirement to investigate a burglary call. Heck, police aren't even legally required to enforce a court order ala Castle Rock vs Gonzales. Also, Warren vs DC, no specific legal duty exists between the police and an individual. You guys love to cite court cases that were ruled the way they were because the reality is that police can't logistically be everywhere However, if I refused a call for no justifiable reason I'd be suspended And since you're calling me a liar here s a click for you too Perhaps, if you don't like reading posts from people who disagree with you, you might enjoy the BOTS forum better. I see a big click in your future too.  |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:18:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Here's what I don't get.
Report states dog is standing on the futon when the officer enters the room, growling and barking. Many respondents here state cops probably didn't have time to get out of the room and shut the door, and/or didn't have time to holster gun and draw pepper spray (which many claim is MORE effective than firearms for stopping grizzly attacks( SOOOO.... Do we need to train cops on what dog barking sounds like, so if they hear it from outside the room they can say 'Hey, maybe there is a dog inside there' and then can do something like have on officer holster his gun and draw pepper spray. Add this to the tactic of opening the door just a little and looking inside. As long as they don't see a burglar inside being eaten by the dog, just close the door and clear the rest of the house. ALSO.... What kind of cop opens the door when clearing a room and enters with such distraction to his surroundings as to fail to notice a 120lb dog standing on a futon? Remember, both offices were able to shoot at the dog, so unless both men stood shoulder-to shoulder in the doorframe (would they even fit?) both were in the room. And according to some here the officers might not have had time to open the door, exit, and shut it, so now we are talking about a pair of officers who are supposed to be clearing a house of a potential burglar BOTH wandering in, then shutting the door, and THEN noticing a dog standing on the Futon barking and growling at them....a dog that had the opportunity to attack before it was even noticed and apparently was happy to just stand there and bark. This spells out to me either #1 lying officers or #2 grossly incompetent officers. AND it spells out a dog that was not dangerous, else it would have attacked earlier, like at the first seconds as the door was opened.
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:20:09 PM EDT
[#12]
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I was called a monkey on the last page by one of your fellow LEOs. I'm not even mad.
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Perhaps, if you don't like reading posts from people who disagree with you, you might enjoy the BOTS forum better.
I don't appreciate being called a liar Do you? I was called a monkey on the last page by one of your fellow LEOs. I'm not even mad.
You know, I came to the realization many years ago that what people refer to me as shouldn't bother me because either A) it is true so I can't deny it so no sense worrying about it or B) it isn't true and the facts will back me up so no sense worrying about it. |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:20:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's what I don't get. Report states dog is standing on the futon when the officer enters the room, growling and barking. Many respondents here state cops probably didn't have time to get out of the room and shut the door, and/or didn't have time to holster gun and draw pepper spray (which many claim is MORE effective than firearms for stopping grizzly attacks( SOOOO.... Do we need to train cops on what dog barking sounds like, so if they hear it from outside the room they can say 'Hey, maybe there is a dog inside there' and then can do something like have on officer holster his gun and draw pepper spray. Add this to the tactic of opening the door just a little and looking inside. As long as they don't see a burglar inside being eaten by the dog, just close the door and clear the rest of the house. ALSO.... What kind of cop opens the door when clearing a room and enters with such distraction to his surroundings as to fail to notice a 120lb dog standing on a futon? Remember, both offices were able to shoot at the dog, so unless both men stood shoulder-to shoulder in the doorframe (would they even fit?) both were in the room. And according to some here the officers might not have had time to open the door, exit, and shut it, so now we are talking about a pair of officers who are supposed to be clearing a house of a potential burglar BOTH wandering in, then shutting the door, and THEN noticing a dog standing on the Futon barking and growling at them....a dog that had the opportunity to attack before it was even noticed and apparently was happy to just stand there and bark. This spells out to me either #1 lying officers or #2 grossly incompetent officers. AND it spells out a dog that was not dangerous, else it would have attacked earlier, like at the first seconds as the door was opened. You're definitely getting clicked.  |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:22:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know, I came to the realization many years ago that what people refer to me as shouldn't bother me because either A) it is true so I can't deny it or B) it isn't true and the facts will back me up so no sense worrying about it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Perhaps, if you don't like reading posts from people who disagree with you, you might enjoy the BOTS forum better. I don't appreciate being called a liar Do you? I was called a monkey on the last page by one of your fellow LEOs. I'm not even mad. You know, I came to the realization many years ago that what people refer to me as shouldn't bother me because either A) it is true so I can't deny it or B) it isn't true and the facts will back me up so no sense worrying about it. Agreeing with me is going to get you clicked by Officer Friendly.  |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:25:14 PM EDT
[#15]
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Agreeing with me is going to get you clicked by Officer Friendly.
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Perhaps, if you don't like reading posts from people who disagree with you, you might enjoy the BOTS forum better.
I don't appreciate being called a liar Do you? I was called a monkey on the last page by one of your fellow LEOs. I'm not even mad.
You know, I came to the realization many years ago that what people refer to me as shouldn't bother me because either A) it is true so I can't deny it or B) it isn't true and the facts will back me up so no sense worrying about it. Agreeing with me is going to get you clicked by Officer Friendly.
I'm probably on some people's ignore list but frankly I don't care to use it because it just seems so childish. I prefer to exercise my own self control. |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:27:13 PM EDT
[#16]
Apparently none of you have been attacked by a real dog. Not talking about little poodles and such but good full size dogs. I understand some of you are attached to your pets but they are animals with little to no reasoning skills. Sure some of you will say your dogs behave and listen to your every command but those are not the norm. If you come at me with the intent to bite me you will get shot or at the least beaten to the point of death.
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:28:55 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm probably on some people's ignore list but frankly I don't care to use it because it just seems so childish. I prefer to exercise my own self control. I'm sort of past debating this incident. Anyone with half a brain can see that the cops' story is FOS. Now I'm just having fun. I don't care if anyone ignores me. |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:29:09 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:30:11 PM EDT
[#19]
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Apparently none of you have been attacked by a real dog. Not talking about little poodles and such but good full size dogs. I understand some of you are attached to your pets but they are animals with little to no reasoning skills. Sure some of you will say your dogs behave and listen to your every command but those are not the norm. If you come at me with the intent to bite me you will get shot or at the least beaten to the point of death. What if you are the one encroaching on their territory? |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:30:44 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Apparently none of you have been attacked by a real dog. Not talking about little poodles and such but good full size dogs. I understand some of you are attached to your pets but they are animals with little to no reasoning skills. Sure some of you will say your dogs behave and listen to your every command but those are not the norm. If you come at me with the intent to bite me you will get shot or at the least beaten to the point of death.  |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:31:08 PM EDT
[#21]
How many have been injured? Death isn't the only threat
Quote History |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:31:35 PM EDT
[#22]
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What if you are the one encroaching on their territory? It doesn't matter |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:32:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It doesn't matter Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What if you are the one encroaching on their territory? It doesn't matter *click* |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:33:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryBAN COWS!!!! |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:33:07 PM EDT
[#25]
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How many have been injured? Death isn't the only threat Quote HistoryQuoted:
How many have been injured? Death isn't the only threat I'm sure quite a few thousand have been injured in traffic accidents. Does that mean they should stop using cars and ride bikes or walk? |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:34:15 PM EDT
[#26]
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It doesn't matter Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What if you are the one encroaching on their territory? It doesn't matter Why not? |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:34:28 PM EDT
[#27]
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I'm sure quite a few thousand have been injured in traffic accidents. Does that mean they should stop using cars and ride bikes or walk? Your question has nothing to do with my comment Someone wants to throw up a stat on officers deaths while ignoring that the bigger problem, as already discussed, is the degree of injury to an officer when bit |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:34:58 PM EDT
[#28]
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BAN COWS!!!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
BAN COWS!!!! Nah...just show 'em yer badge.
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:36:39 PM EDT
[#29]
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Why not? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What if you are the one encroaching on their territory? It doesn't matter Why not? It doesn't somehow give the pet a free pass on biting the officer. The officer isn't a burglar or other criminal that's there for unlawful purposes and they can legally defend themselves. So in the end the fact that the dog is on its own turf may play well with the "my dog is my family" crowd, but it has no bearing on the legality of the officer shooting the dog in self defense |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:38:38 PM EDT
[#30]
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Your question has nothing to do with my comment Someone wants to throw up a stat on officers deaths while ignoring that the bigger problem, as already discussed, is the degree of injury to an officer when bit Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm sure quite a few thousand have been injured in traffic accidents. Does that mean they should stop using cars and ride bikes or walk? Your question has nothing to do with my comment Someone wants to throw up a stat on officers deaths while ignoring that the bigger problem, as already discussed, is the degree of injury to an officer when bit The underlying theme is mitigating serious injuries. To do that one would need to identify the most common causes and look for ways to reduce their impact. I think the pareto theory would apply in this situation. |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:40:47 PM EDT
[#31]
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The underlying theme is mitigating serious injuries. To do that one would need to identify the most common causes and look for ways to reduce their impact. I think the pareto theory would apply in this situation. I believe that most officers who shoot dogs do so because there are no better options at the time. If you want to MMQB them that's your call. Easy to do from the comfort of your chair, isn't it |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:40:53 PM EDT
[#32]
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No kidding...last name might as well be "Magnet'.
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Bullet - not a good dog name with a cop nearby. No kidding...last name might as well be "Magnet'.
Man, that's cold |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:41:57 PM EDT
[#33]
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It doesn't somehow give the pet a free pass on biting the officer. The officer isn't a burglar or other criminal that's there for unlawful purposes and they can legally defend themselves. So in the end the fact that the dog is on its own turf may play well with the "my dog is my family" crowd, but it has no bearing on the legality of the officer shooting the dog in self defense Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What if you are the one encroaching on their territory? It doesn't matter Why not? It doesn't somehow give the pet a free pass on biting the officer. The officer isn't a burglar or other criminal that's there for unlawful purposes and they can legally defend themselves. So in the end the fact that the dog is on its own turf may play well with the "my dog is my family" crowd, but it has no bearing on the legality of the officer shooting the dog in self defense So as a door to door salesman I would be justified in defending myself including shooting to death a dog in self defense provided I have the proper permits where required and there are not any no soliciting, no trespassing, beware of dog, etc. signs? |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:43:57 PM EDT
[#34]
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So as a door to door salesman I would be justified in defending myself including shooting to death a dog in self defense provided I have the proper permits where required and there are not any no soliciting, no trespassing, beware of dog, etc. signs? That would depend on your states laws, wouldn't it. |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:44:27 PM EDT
[#35]
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Well bless your heart, you're a special sorta monkey aren't you? I never once claimed the dog was an armed combatant. But if you wanna go there, technically, the dog was armed with its teeth. However, the dog was not what would prompt me to move quickly through a fatal funnel like a doorway during a burglary call and subsequent building search. Lets review: Cops get burglar alarm at a residence. Cops find open door, indicating a possible burglary... Now, are you able to follow that, or should I use smaller words and more pictures? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So now the family dog is an armed combatant? 
Well bless your heart, you're a special sorta monkey aren't you? I never once claimed the dog was an armed combatant. But if you wanna go there, technically, the dog was armed with its teeth. However, the dog was not what would prompt me to move quickly through a fatal funnel like a doorway during a burglary call and subsequent building search. Lets review: Cops get burglar alarm at a residence. Cops find open door, indicating a possible burglary... Now, are you able to follow that, or should I use smaller words and more pictures? He thinks the dog is the "problem" being solved. The problem is where is the burglar. The dog is a dangerous distraction to solving the burglar problem. They cant yell "time out Mr burglar while we deal with this dog." Mission accomplishment shouldnt go out the window when an animal appears on scene. Deal with the animal as fast as possible and get back on task. |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:46:11 PM EDT
[#36]
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It doesn't matter Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What if you are the one encroaching on their territory? It doesn't matter Officer Click jumps a fence into a yard with a dog that makes a furtive movement, maybe "lunges" or wags its tail. BAM! And he wonders why respect for cops is diminished. |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:46:26 PM EDT
[#37]
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I believe that most officers who shoot dogs do so because there are no better options at the time. If you want to MMQB them that's your call. Easy to do from the comfort of your chair, isn't it Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The underlying theme is mitigating serious injuries. To do that one would need to identify the most common causes and look for ways to reduce their impact. I think the pareto theory would apply in this situation. I believe that most officers who shoot dogs do so because there are no better options at the time. If you want to MMQB them that's your call. Easy to do from the comfort of your chair, isn't it Actually it is what Jeff Cooper refered to as being post-judiced re this post: Quoted:
I think what some fail to realize is that some times the police fail to tell the truth such as the case of the two dogs that were shot at the mayor's house - one in the back of the hind leg. Yet the officers maintained it was acting aggressive toward them when they shot it. Then the police department investigation clears the officer of any wrongdoing and then in the mayor's case the forensic investigation on the dog shows the bullet entry from the rear as well as another officer corroborating the story of being shot from behind and they still don't acknowledge their lies AND the police chief says he would do it again tonight.
A rotten apple spoils the whole barrel yet a lot of the good apples are in denial about the rotten apples being rotten. |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:53:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guys love to cite court cases that were ruled the way they were because the reality is that police can't logistically be everywhere However, if I refused a call for no justifiable reason I'd be suspended And since you're calling me a liar here s a click for you too Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Liar Police have no legal requirement to investigate a burglary call. Heck, police aren't even legally required to enforce a court order ala Castle Rock vs Gonzales. Also, Warren vs DC, no specific legal duty exists between the police and an individual. You guys love to cite court cases that were ruled the way they were because the reality is that police can't logistically be everywhere However, if I refused a call for no justifiable reason I'd be suspended And since you're calling me a liar here s a click for you too It also shows the basic cop mindset...jump to a conclusion and let nothing dissuade you from that position.
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:53:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't appreciate being called a liar Do you? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Perhaps, if you don't like reading posts from people who disagree with you, you might enjoy the BOTS forum better. I don't appreciate being called a liar Do you? |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:57:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know, I came to the realization many years ago that what people refer to me as shouldn't bother me because either A) it is true so I can't deny it so no sense worrying about it or B) it isn't true and the facts will back me up so no sense worrying about it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Perhaps, if you don't like reading posts from people who disagree with you, you might enjoy the BOTS forum better. I don't appreciate being called a liar Do you? I was called a monkey on the last page by one of your fellow LEOs. I'm not even mad. You know, I came to the realization many years ago that what people refer to me as shouldn't bother me because either A) it is true so I can't deny it so no sense worrying about it or B) it isn't true and the facts will back me up so no sense worrying about it. |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:57:43 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or they gave no thought at all to getting away from the dog, because they were shooting first and thinking later. Their version of events is that the dog was growling and barking at them from across the room before he lunged. That would have given them time to simply close the door so the dog couldn't get to them in the first place. The homeowner's version of events is that the cops shot the dog while he was laying on the futon, and no lunging ever occurred. So whether the dog was growling/barking/lunging or simply laying there, it appears that they could have gotten away from the dog just by closing the door. And if that's true, they either (1) shot the dog without even considering how they could avoid it; or (2) consciously decided to kill the dog even though they knew it was unnecessary. For the closing the door crowd, ever hear of the 21 foot rule? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill How long does it take to close a door? 1 second? How fast for a 120 pound jumping rot to bite you? if 1 second or less you're a chew toy ETA: Assuming you have flashlight in one hand and a gun in the other, it'd take more time to close the door |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 4:59:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Officer Click jumps a fence into a yard with a dog that makes a furtive movement, maybe "lunges" or wags its tail. BAM! And he wonders why respect for cops is diminished. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What if you are the one encroaching on their territory? It doesn't matter Officer Click jumps a fence into a yard with a dog that makes a furtive movement, maybe "lunges" or wags its tail. BAM! And he wonders why respect for cops is diminished. |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 5:00:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He thinks the dog is the "problem" being solved. The problem is where is the burglar. The dog is a dangerous distraction to solving the burglar problem. They cant yell "time out Mr burglar while we deal with this dog." Mission accomplishment shouldnt go out the window when an animal appears on scene. Deal with the animal as fast as possible and get back on task. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: So now the family dog is an armed combatant? Well bless your heart, you're a special sorta monkey aren't you? I never once claimed the dog was an armed combatant. But if you wanna go there, technically, the dog was armed with its teeth. However, the dog was not what would prompt me to move quickly through a fatal funnel like a doorway during a burglary call and subsequent building search. Lets review: Cops get burglar alarm at a residence. Cops find open door, indicating a possible burglary... Now, are you able to follow that, or should I use smaller words and more pictures? He thinks the dog is the "problem" being solved. The problem is where is the burglar. The dog is a dangerous distraction to solving the burglar problem. They cant yell "time out Mr burglar while we deal with this dog." Mission accomplishment shouldnt go out the window when an animal appears on scene. Deal with the animal as fast as possible and get back on task. Where in this situation did the idea of cleaning up all the evidence of the shooting come in? After they realized there was no burglar and they killed the family's pet? |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 5:02:55 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 6/1/2014 5:05:07 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the closing the door crowd, ever hear of the 21 foot rule? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill How long does it take to close a door? 1 second? How fast for a 120 pound jumping rot to bite you? if 1 second or less you're a chew toy Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Or they gave no thought at all to getting away from the dog, because they were shooting first and thinking later. Their version of events is that the dog was growling and barking at them from across the room before he lunged. That would have given them time to simply close the door so the dog couldn't get to them in the first place. The homeowner's version of events is that the cops shot the dog while he was laying on the futon, and no lunging ever occurred. So whether the dog was growling/barking/lunging or simply laying there, it appears that they could have gotten away from the dog just by closing the door. And if that's true, they either (1) shot the dog without even considering how they could avoid it; or (2) consciously decided to kill the dog even though they knew it was unnecessary. For the closing the door crowd, ever hear of the 21 foot rule? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill How long does it take to close a door? 1 second? How fast for a 120 pound jumping rot to bite you? if 1 second or less you're a chew toy Yes, a dog is exactly the same as an attacker with a knife. You guys are something else. |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 5:07:30 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreeing with me is going to get you clicked by Officer Friendly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Perhaps, if you don't like reading posts from people who disagree with you, you might enjoy the BOTS forum better. I don't appreciate being called a liar Do you? I was called a monkey on the last page by one of your fellow LEOs. I'm not even mad. You know, I came to the realization many years ago that what people refer to me as shouldn't bother me because either A) it is true so I can't deny it or B) it isn't true and the facts will back me up so no sense worrying about it. Agreeing with me is going to get you clicked by Officer Friendly.  |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 5:07:39 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry...I don't believe a word they say anymore... 
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Round Rock Police commander Jim Stuart said the dog was barking and growling before lunging at an officer. One of the officers fired a single shot; the second officer fired six rounds. Stuart said the dog kept coming at them after being shot the first time. Sorry...I don't believe a word they say anymore...
Yep. |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 5:10:30 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, a dog is exactly the same as an attacker with a knife. You guys are something else. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Or they gave no thought at all to getting away from the dog, because they were shooting first and thinking later. Their version of events is that the dog was growling and barking at them from across the room before he lunged. That would have given them time to simply close the door so the dog couldn't get to them in the first place. The homeowner's version of events is that the cops shot the dog while he was laying on the futon, and no lunging ever occurred. So whether the dog was growling/barking/lunging or simply laying there, it appears that they could have gotten away from the dog just by closing the door. And if that's true, they either (1) shot the dog without even considering how they could avoid it; or (2) consciously decided to kill the dog even though they knew it was unnecessary. For the closing the door crowd, ever hear of the 21 foot rule? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill How long does it take to close a door? 1 second? How fast for a 120 pound jumping rot to bite you? if 1 second or less you're a chew toy Yes, a dog is exactly the same as an attacker with a knife. You guys are something else. Hello and/or duh. When a dog sees a cop, they just lose it. Their eyes glow red, they grow multiple rows of teeth like a shark, and they can shoot them like harpoons. |
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Posted: 6/1/2014 5:10:50 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the closing the door crowd, ever hear of the 21 foot rule? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill How long does it take to close a door? 1 second? How fast for a 120 pound jumping rot to bite you? if 1 second or less you're a chew toy Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Or they gave no thought at all to getting away from the dog, because they were shooting first and thinking later. Their version of events is that the dog was growling and barking at them from across the room before he lunged. That would have given them time to simply close the door so the dog couldn't get to them in the first place. The homeowner's version of events is that the cops shot the dog while he was laying on the futon, and no lunging ever occurred. So whether the dog was growling/barking/lunging or simply laying there, it appears that they could have gotten away from the dog just by closing the door. And if that's true, they either (1) shot the dog without even considering how they could avoid it; or (2) consciously decided to kill the dog even though they knew it was unnecessary. For the closing the door crowd, ever hear of the 21 foot rule? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill How long does it take to close a door? 1 second? How fast for a 120 pound jumping rot to bite you? if 1 second or less you're a chew toy That actually cuts both sides equally. It is far quicker to, while opening the door, see the threat, process it, formulate a response to it, and yank the door closed than it is to see the threat, process it, formulate a response to it, and start shooting. It would really depend on where in the progression of events the dog was noticed, and how doors are handled. If an officer is clearing a house for a potential burglar and he comes across a closed internal door, how does he open it? Does he kick it as to keep both hands on his gun, or does he open it? If he opens it, does he do so with his main hand (right for a righty) as would be natural, or has he been trained to open with his off-hand. I realize that we won't know for sure what all departments do, but I suspect if we hear from a couple people who serve in various departments and they all state the same thing we can assume it is fairly universal. Obviously, even if the door handle was used to open the door but the the officer returned both hands to his gun and stepped in (somehow not managing to notice the dog standing on the futon barking and growling prior to this) then yes, absolutely, it would be too time restrictive and to dangerous to attempt to turn around, flee, and then turn around a second time to grab the door and shut it before being bitten.
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Posted: 6/1/2014 5:11:23 PM EDT
[#50]
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