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Posted: 2/16/2023 9:48:44 PM EDT
I don't understand how a fully loaded plane like that can have enough power to take off from the surface even in calm seas, never mind sea state 4.
 "The new X-plane will be a large flying boat similar in size and capacity to the C-17. The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency is working on a new X-plane under the Liberty Lifter Seaplane Wing-in-Ground Effect full-scale demonstrator program. Two teams, General Atomics working with Maritime Applied Physics Corporation and Aurora Flight Sciences working with Gibbs & Cox and ReconCraft, have been selected to develop designs to create a long-range, low-cost X-Plane capable of seaborne strategic and tactical heavy lift, similar in size and capacity to the C-17 Globemaster III transport aircraft. The aircraft needs to be able to takeoff and land in Sea State 4, operate efficiently at less than 100 feet above the surface for sustained on-water operation up to Sea State 5 (up to 13 ft wave height), fly out of ground effect at altitudes of up to 10,000 feet and transport huge payloads at speeds faster than current sea lift platforms. The ferry range required is greater than 6,500 nm, while the cargo capacity should be enough for two USMC Amphibious Combat Vehicles (ACV) or six twenty-foot container units." https://theaviationist.com/2023/02/16/darpa-developing-wing-in-ground-effect-cargo-seaplane/ . |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 9:50:36 PM EDT
[#1]
With compact fusion power you can do anything.
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Posted: 2/16/2023 9:50:38 PM EDT
[#2]
Make ekranoplans great again
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Posted: 2/16/2023 9:54:14 PM EDT
[#3]
They should name it the Goose.
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Posted: 2/16/2023 9:55:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Is this to get troops to China RFN?
Call it the trouser monster |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 9:56:15 PM EDT
[#5]
I’ll bet takeoff and landings will knock the fillings out of your teeth.
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Posted: 2/16/2023 9:57:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Or you could just send in the 82nd and heavy drop the needed stuff.
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Posted: 2/16/2023 9:57:38 PM EDT
[#7]
AFSOC just stopped work on the MC-130J on floats. Sometimes the juice just ain’t worth the squeeze. This was one of those times.
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Posted: 2/16/2023 10:00:31 PM EDT
[#8]
I want to believe The USA can and will do this, I'm a huge fan of large designs and amphibians as well as the amazing Akranoplan.
Unfortunately, this will be looked at and probably go through the preliminary desgn work only to come to a screeching halt once the money is gone. An aircraft like this would be a game-changer in so many ways, it is too bad nobody has already built one like this. |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 10:01:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Neva been done befo
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Posted: 2/16/2023 10:02:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AFSOC just stopped work on the MC-130J on floats. Sometimes the juice just ain't worth the squeeze. This was one of those times. The potential for this erkanoplane thing will be worth following, but I seriously doubt anything will come of it. |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 10:04:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or you could just send in the 82nd and heavy drop the needed stuff. Why get it done when you can screw around and soak up that sweet government funding? |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 10:09:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: I don't understand how a fully loaded plane like that can have enough power to take off from the surface even in calm seas, never mind sea state 4. …. Ekranoplan “Lun” begs to differ.  Video Lun class Ekranoplan (Caspian)  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 10:10:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why get it done when you can screw around and soak up that sweet government funding? And funnel a bunch of it back to the politicians that vote for it. |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 10:18:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Some people in the MIC are banking on a war in the Pacific looking like some island hopping campaign, which it won’t.
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Posted: 2/16/2023 10:21:39 PM EDT
[#15]
not really ever gonna "fly above weather" are you now
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Posted: 2/16/2023 10:33:45 PM EDT
[#16]
With those drooping winglets, clearly the design was stolen from the Klingon Bird-of-Prey starship/warship class.
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Posted: 2/16/2023 10:44:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryThat thing was crazy big, saw it on a field trip as a kid. |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 10:57:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Another money wasting boondoggle.
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:02:59 PM EDT
[#19]
A lot of cool stuff has come out of DARPA. This will not be one of them.
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:06:57 PM EDT
[#20]
wings are probably hydrofoils
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:07:13 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:08:31 PM EDT
[#22]
If that were a real airplane, in what way would it be similar to a C-17? Same color?
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:11:12 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that were a real airplane, in what way would it be similar to a C-17? Same color? Quote HistoryQuoted: If that were a real airplane, in what way would it be similar to a C-17? Same color? "The new X-plane will be a large flying boat similar in size and capacity to the C-17" |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:14:25 PM EDT
[#24]
Service life will be terrible due to corrosion.
I don’t know if it’s possible to engineer your way out of it. |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:16:19 PM EDT
[#25]
ground effect planes have been researched for decades, but I don't see them becoming an everyday reality anytime soon.
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:16:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Service life will be terrible due to corrosion. I don’t know if it’s possible to engineer your way out of it. Make it out of spruce. |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:18:19 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They should name it the Goose. The pine gander |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:20:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Service life will be terrible due to corrosion. I don't know if it's possible to engineer your way out of it. |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:21:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another money wasting boondoggle. Yep, the article said “low cost”….hahahahaha |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:22:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ground effect planes have been researched for decades, but I don't see them becoming an everyday reality anytime soon. If there was any advantage, they would be everywhere already. Flying at high altitude is much more efficient. |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:27:40 PM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:32:33 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AFSOC just stopped work on the MC-130J on floats. Sometimes the juice just ain’t worth the squeeze. This was one of those times. The C-130 float thing had a lot of basic problems to deal with. Like the floats putting it really high off the water and ridiculously high off the ground to actually use it for cargo stuff. |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:34:28 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If there was any advantage, they would be everywhere already. Flying at high altitude is much more efficient. Not quite that simple. There are plenty of better ideas and concepts out there that don't exist yet. The objective here is to carry heavy weight at faster speeds than conventional sealift. It's competing with ships, not planes. |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:34:48 PM EDT
[#34]
Why is "sea state 4" take off/landing capabilities even needed?
 If you need to blow shit up in bad weather just send a C17 with a full Rapid Dragon Load out. Click To View Spoiler |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:39:57 PM EDT
[#35]
I knew this would be a wing-in-ground effect design before opening the thread.
They've been talking about these things for decades, but for some reason the design never made it off the ground. Okay, I'll see myself out... 
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:41:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not quite that simple. There are plenty of better ideas and concepts out there that don't exist yet. The objective here is to carry heavy weight at faster speeds than conventional sealift. It's competing with ships, not planes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If there was any advantage, they would be everywhere already. Flying at high altitude is much more efficient. Not quite that simple. There are plenty of better ideas and concepts out there that don't exist yet. The objective here is to carry heavy weight at faster speeds than conventional sealift. It's competing with ships, not planes. If planes can do the same job, it's competing with planes. What can it do that a "conventional" plane can't? |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:47:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The C-130 float thing had a lot of basic problems to deal with. Like the floats putting it really high off the water and ridiculously high off the ground to actually use it for cargo stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: AFSOC just stopped work on the MC-130J on floats. Sometimes the juice just ain’t worth the squeeze. This was one of those times. The C-130 float thing had a lot of basic problems to deal with. Like the floats putting it really high off the water and ridiculously high off the ground to actually use it for cargo stuff. That's why you load the cargo in water... duh |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:47:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If planes can do the same job, it's competing with planes. What can it do that a "conventional" plane can't? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If there was any advantage, they would be everywhere already. Flying at high altitude is much more efficient. Not quite that simple. There are plenty of better ideas and concepts out there that don't exist yet. The objective here is to carry heavy weight at faster speeds than conventional sealift. It's competing with ships, not planes. If planes can do the same job, it's competing with planes. What can it do that a "conventional" plane can't? Land in high seas. The Earth is 3/4's water. In theory, anyway.  |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:49:35 PM EDT
[#39]
DARPA is a Research Agency, i.e. there are no current plans to actually build anything, just see if a design can even be done. Yes, it's a lot of money for just a design, but figuring out if a thing can be built before you decide to build it is far better, and much cheaper, than trying to build something and find out that lack of proper materials, physics etc prevents your new thing from even being built.
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:51:30 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They should name it the Goose. I vote for "FISH FUCKER 9000" |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:54:24 PM EDT
[#41]
How many pelicans and sea gulls can it suck up and still fly?
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:55:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If planes can do the same job, it's competing with planes. What can it do that a "conventional" plane can't? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If there was any advantage, they would be everywhere already. Flying at high altitude is much more efficient. Not quite that simple. There are plenty of better ideas and concepts out there that don't exist yet. The objective here is to carry heavy weight at faster speeds than conventional sealift. It's competing with ships, not planes. If planes can do the same job, it's competing with planes. What can it do that a "conventional" plane can't? selected to develop designs to create a long-range, low-cost X-Plane capable of seaborne strategic and tactical heavy lift, similar in size and capacity to the C-17 Globemaster III transport aircraft. It's a seaborne C-17 with some out-of-ground effect capability. They'll use it for strategic and tactical matters when conventional aircraft are unavailable or impractical. These will be able to land at sea where traditional aircraft can't due to no airfields, airfields bombed out etc. It is intended to supplement and improve strategic and tactical sealift, not airlift. |
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Posted: 2/16/2023 11:56:47 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Land in high seas. The Earth is 3/4's water. In theory, anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If there was any advantage, they would be everywhere already. Flying at high altitude is much more efficient. Not quite that simple. There are plenty of better ideas and concepts out there that don't exist yet. The objective here is to carry heavy weight at faster speeds than conventional sealift. It's competing with ships, not planes. If planes can do the same job, it's competing with planes. What can it do that a "conventional" plane can't? Land in high seas. The Earth is 3/4's water. In theory, anyway. That is a capability that has nothing to do with the ability to remain in ground effect. ETA: Landing in high seas is easy. Not sinking, then taking off again is the challenge. |
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Posted: 2/17/2023 12:00:05 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I vote for "FISH FUCKER 9000" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They should name it the Goose. I vote for "FISH FUCKER 9000" Plany McBoatface. Duh. |
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Posted: 2/17/2023 12:09:09 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a seaborne C-17 with some out-of-ground effect capability. They'll use it for strategic and tactical matters when conventional aircraft are unavailable or impractical. These will be able to land at sea where traditional aircraft can't due to no airfields, airfields bombed out etc. It is intended to supplement and improve strategic and tactical sealift, not airlift. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If there was any advantage, they would be everywhere already. Flying at high altitude is much more efficient. Not quite that simple. There are plenty of better ideas and concepts out there that don't exist yet. The objective here is to carry heavy weight at faster speeds than conventional sealift. It's competing with ships, not planes. If planes can do the same job, it's competing with planes. What can it do that a "conventional" plane can't? selected to develop designs to create a long-range, low-cost X-Plane capable of seaborne strategic and tactical heavy lift, similar in size and capacity to the C-17 Globemaster III transport aircraft. It's a seaborne C-17 with some out-of-ground effect capability. They'll use it for strategic and tactical matters when conventional aircraft are unavailable or impractical. These will be able to land at sea where traditional aircraft can't due to no airfields, airfields bombed out etc. It is intended to supplement and improve strategic and tactical sealift, not airlift. So build a sea plane that's intended to fly. The ground effect crap is silly. The only advantage is slightly less drag. Big deal. Modern jet engines have so much power, it's not even much of an advantage. |
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Posted: 2/17/2023 12:14:01 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another money wasting boondoggle. Easy to do with free money |
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Posted: 2/17/2023 12:15:51 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a seaborne C-17 with some out-of-ground effect capability. They'll use it for strategic and tactical matters when conventional aircraft are unavailable or impractical. These will be able to land at sea where traditional aircraft can't due to no airfields, airfields bombed out etc. It is intended to supplement and improve strategic and tactical sealift, not airlift. Would the design help it to "stay under the radar", so to speak? |
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Posted: 2/17/2023 12:16:52 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryIirc that thing was very temperamental and needed very calm conditions to work. But I could be remembering incorrectly. |
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Posted: 2/17/2023 12:24:00 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Service life will be terrible due to corrosion. I don't know if it's possible to engineer your way out of it. We can't. Boeing St Louis uses the best practical corrosion control possible and airplanes corrode anyway, especially naval airplanes. On top of that, a new fatigue spectrum enters the arena, one with many cycles at high strains - if the machine is to fly. I'm surprised DARPA is still fooling with that mess. It will be usable at existing ports, so that's no advantage, it's not compatible anyway. About 15% of the shores world wide have beaches that can be entered (assaulted) from the water. |
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Posted: 2/17/2023 12:29:39 AM EDT
[#50]
For a war in the pacific.
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