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Posted: 2/12/2017 9:17:18 AM EDT
[#1]
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Approach velocity is zero, it's a pool of water. Here is a calculator for an ogee crest. http://ponce.sdsu.edu/onlineogeerating.php Lots of coefficients are determined on the dimensions of the crest as-built that affect the discharge computation. Have fun.  Stupid question: Would surface tension of the water cause some velocity near the edge? Kind of pulling some of the water over the edge, or am I just retarded in thinking that would be a factor? (Not an engineer, but enjoy thinking about things like this and playing around with the math.) |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 9:17:53 AM EDT
[#2]
Anyone there selling "I Survived the Great Oroville Dam Burst" T-shirts yet?
We need theme music for this thread!  Dambusters main theme song / tune / anthem / soundtrack |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 9:21:28 AM EDT
[#3]
Good morning dam watchers.
Can we keep the dick wagging and arguing out of this thread today? K thanks. |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 9:25:18 AM EDT
[#4]
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Good morning dam watchers. Can we keep the dick wagging and arguing out of this thread today? K thanks. Who put these beans in my dam chili?! 
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Posted: 2/12/2017 9:27:53 AM EDT
[#5]
Beans in chili is the best chili
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Posted: 2/12/2017 9:34:32 AM EDT
[#6]
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You wouldn't happen to be tracking downstream water levels along with the dam conditions, would you? I'm curious what the downstream flood levels look like (i.e. rising, falling, holding). I'm starting to become more comfortable with the current situation at the dam, but worried that while all the attention is on the 2 spill way systems, we may be missing the catastrophe unfolding below from the steady flow of water over the last 36 hours. The river could be handling much more water. This wouldn't even be much of a story if the dam could release water as it was designed. In the late 90's the spillway/river was moving 3x the water leaving the spillway today. |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 9:34:42 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stupid question: Would surface tension of the water cause some velocity near the edge? Kind of pulling some of the water over the edge, or am I just retarded in thinking that would be a factor? (Not an engineer, but enjoy thinking about things like this and playing around with the math.) No, surface tension is not a variable in any of the equations I know of. ETA - Lots of fun math/info in here. https://pubs.usgs.gov/twri/twri3-a5/ and here https://www.usbr.gov/tsc/techreferences/mands/wmm/ |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 9:40:34 AM EDT
[#8]
At 902.5' I calculate the wier's flow at 5100 cfs, which probably makes sense when comparing the OPs pics of the muddy outflows.
To cope with flows we saw Friday, the reservoir would be around 911' (assuming 55k output of the normal spillway). That's a 10' wall of water. |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 9:46:35 AM EDT
[#9]
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Im not sure either. I don't think the e-spill lets as much water out as we think it does right now. I think I saw somewhere earlier in an online article that it was 4-6000cfs. If the level drops to 901' and there's still outflow then we know that's all main spillway until they turn the hydroelectric turbines back on. Other then that I'm scratching my head on those numbers the last few hours looking back. Fuuuuuuck. Now I want to see 0400 numbers Looking at the numbers, I don't think the emergency spillway volume was counted in either the inflow or outflow figures. |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 9:54:42 AM EDT
[#10]
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Don't Like Damn Disasters In CA? Blame Environmentalists Who Banned Them Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't Like Damn Disasters In CA? Blame Environmentalists Who Banned Them The 10 largest reservoirs in California, linchpins of the water system for 38 million people and the nation’s largest farm economy, were all built between 1927 and 1979. Shasta Lake, the massive inland sea on the Sacramento River near Redding, was finished in 1945. Oroville, the tallest dam in the United States, at 770-feet high on the Feather River in Butte County, was started under Gov. Pat Brown’s building boom in 1961 and finished in 1968. The last huge reservoir built in California was New Melones, on the Stanislaus River in Calaveras County. Since the Army Corps of Engineers cut the ribbon on it in 1979, California has grown by 15 million people, the equivalent of adding everyone now living in Washington, Oregon and Nevada to the Golden State. The “destroy the dams” movement had gained so much steam in recent years that San Franciscans were asked in a 2012 advisory vote to destroy the O’Shaughnessy dam in Yosemite National Park and drain the Hetch Hetchy Reservoir — the main source of water for the state’s third-largest city. Build the Auburn Dam
The Feds own Hetch Hetchy, I think they should just cut off the water from it so Nacy Pelosi's toilet doesn't flush. |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 9:56:29 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, surface tension is not a variable in any of the equations I know of. ETA - Lots of fun math/info in here. https://pubs.usgs.gov/twri/twri3-a5/ and here https://www.usbr.gov/tsc/techreferences/mands/wmm/ Thanks!
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:00:47 AM EDT
[#12]
its the capillary action that always gets ya.
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:01:30 AM EDT
[#13]
what time is OP expected to try to make his way back up?
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:01:53 AM EDT
[#14]
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Thanks you to the guys on the ground and your hard work. In for more shocking video of the frantic efforts to keep the Oroville Dam from creating Cali's new ecological attraction, the Feather River Canyon. Imagine, 700 feet deep and extending thru the formerly inhabited town of Oroville creating the new silt bed for 4WD and motorcycle adventure at it's exit. And it was all done by the failure of the fuse plug in broad daylight which was never documented because of a ban on overflights. Even more amazing that it only took two sacks of Quikcrete and a gallon of Flex Seal to patch the flume for the primary sluice, putting the dam back in operation for the six months it took a referendum to pass shutting it down. One highly popular attraction is the In-n-out Burger located in the old Powerhouse where you can see the turbines making electricity to power the heat lamps for your favorite dinner, spinning at 87 rpm in their original bearings. Did I miss anything? In future news, the California Valley crop disaster of '17. How will that impact the State when tax revenues on ag and trucking dry up? Do you mean that California will have the worst harvest in 55 years? 
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:10:59 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At 902.5' I calculate the wier's flow at 5100 cfs, which probably makes sense when comparing the OPs pics of the muddy outflows. To cope with flows we saw Friday, the reservoir would be around 911' (assuming 55k output of the normal spillway). That's a 10' wall of water. Yesterday afternoon one of the reports said around 12000 cfs at the level then. I've seen a few differing reports of the weir width which did you use for the calculations? 1730 ft seems to be the right number. |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:21:21 AM EDT
[#16]
Water apears to be going down for the moment.
I'm beat! I crashed right after I ate a double double with whole grilled onion slab and no tomato AND a cheeseburger the same way. Oh don't forget the strawberry shake. I'll go back today if yall want. I'm burning through gas like a bandit! Lol. I'm a junkie for watching stuff like this though. |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:22:56 AM EDT
[#17]
This is the longest dam thread on ARFcom.
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:23:48 AM EDT
[#18]
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Water apears to be going down for the moment. I'm beat! I crashed right after I ate a double double with whole grilled onion slab and no tomato AND a cheeseburger the same way. Oh don't forget the strawberry shake. I'll go back today if yall want. I'm burning through gas like a bandit! Lol. I'm a junkie for watching stuff like this though. Sure thing, go for it. This thread needs to hit 100 pages! |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:26:07 AM EDT
[#19]
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Yesterday afternoon one of the reports said around 12000 cfs at the level then. I've seen a few differing reports of the weir width which did you use for the calculations? 1730 ft seems to be the right number. On the Butte County GIS Page you can get measurements of the espillway. ~1700' seems pretty close... |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:27:50 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Water apears to be going down for the moment. I'm beat! I crashed right after I ate a double double with whole grilled onion slab and no tomato AND a cheeseburger the same way. Oh don't forget the strawberry shake. I'll go back today if yall want. I'm burning through gas like a bandit! Lol. I'm a junkie for watching stuff like this though. You need to PM me your paypal address and I'll throw down a few bucks for gas and beer. |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:27:54 AM EDT
[#21]
Damn threads are the new safe thread
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:28:14 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Water apears to be going down for the moment. I'm beat! I crashed right after I ate a double double with whole grilled onion slab and no tomato AND a cheeseburger the same way. Oh don't forget the strawberry shake. I'll go back today if yall want. I'm burning through gas like a bandit! Lol. I'm a junkie for watching stuff like this though. With the water levels dropping, it doesn't sound like there will be anything new to see. Thursday looks like the day you'll be needed on site. |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:33:09 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With the water levels dropping, it doesn't sound like there will be anything new to see. Thursday looks like the day you'll be needed on site. Even though the water is dropping, it will be higher than when I was there. Little chance of me going out there in a storm. If its not terrible next weekend Ill go out. |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:38:02 AM EDT
[#24]
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I'll go back today if yall want. I'm burning through gas like a bandit! Lol. Flights back and forth from MD to CA can't be cheap!
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:45:08 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Water apears to be going down for the moment. I'm beat! I crashed right after I ate a double double with whole grilled onion slab and no tomato AND a cheeseburger the same way. Oh don't forget the strawberry shake. I'll go back today if yall want. I'm burning through gas like a bandit! Lol. I'm a junkie for watching stuff like this though. The dam operators are outright lying about what is going on. Your choice, but we'll cheer you on and watch if you go! |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:45:12 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Flights back and forth from MD to CA can't be cheap! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll go back today if yall want. I'm burning through gas like a bandit! Lol. Flights back and forth from MD to CA can't be cheap! this is arfcom, fo be poor somewhere else
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:46:54 AM EDT
[#27]
ProFryan is the man. Take more beer and food today!
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:49:23 AM EDT
[#28]
Has anyone made a Led Zeppelin reference yet?
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:49:29 AM EDT
[#29]
Sorry if this vid from yesterday of the E-spillway's water volume at river level is a dupe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uux0bjzSh7Y |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:51:33 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It seems like you, and a couple of drone operators (who might get slapped down for no-fly rules) are the only ones actually showing what's going on. The dam operators are outright lying about what is going on. Your choice, but we'll cheer you on and watch if you go! I understand at some point yesterday a drone was shot out of the air... |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:52:39 AM EDT
[#31]
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My mom grew up in Johnstown. The flood will always be part of that town. My great, great grandfather lost his whole family in the Johnstown flood. He re-married and that's why I'm here. |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:53:59 AM EDT
[#32]
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I understand at some point yesterday a drone was shot out of the air... WTF?! |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:55:47 AM EDT
[#33]
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WTF?! Seriously though, which round for drone? Birdshot? Something a little heavier? |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:55:48 AM EDT
[#34]
Sunrise soon. Hope we get a good look at the hill.
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:57:37 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand at some point yesterday a drone was shot out of the air... Drone flights matter. Unless there is AAA. |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:58:18 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand at some point yesterday a drone was shot out of the air... As if this thread wasn't interesting enough! As another poster stated, IM your Paypal, will kick in for gas and beer! ARF-News is best news! |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 10:59:48 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand at some point yesterday a drone was shot out of the air... Were they doing any filming for The Grand Tour anywhere nearby? |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 11:00:54 AM EDT
[#38]
Sunrise in the west coast. Let's see some pics of what happened overnight.
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Posted: 2/12/2017 11:03:36 AM EDT
[#39]
ProFryan is the best Dam Reporter ever! I'll toss in a 10 for gas via paypal. Shoot me your addy.
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Posted: 2/12/2017 11:07:06 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seriously though, which round for drone? Birdshot? Something a little heavier? Better be lead free, bismuth what if a condor eats the drone meat it will die. |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 11:07:44 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry if this vid from yesterday of the E-spillway's water volume at river level is a dupe.
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uux0bjzSh7Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uux0bjzSh7Y[l/url] Mmm, a chocolate river... Augustus sveetheart! Save sum womb for laytah! |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 11:08:46 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On the Butte County GIS Page you can get measurements of the espillway. ~1700' seems pretty close... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yesterday afternoon one of the reports said around 12000 cfs at the level then. I've seen a few differing reports of the weir width which did you use for the calculations? 1730 ft seems to be the right number. On the Butte County GIS Page you can get measurements of the espillway. ~1700' seems pretty close... If you go to google earth and put a tape on it, the 1700 ft includes the parking lot area. The open and exposed portion of the the weir is about 900' I don't have a clue how the flow over the weir in the area of the parking lot works. Head is head, so to speak, but the water still has to flow over the parking lot which makes the feed pool for 1/2 the weir pretty shallow. I'd think it would be a somewhat reduced effectiveness over the balance of the weir |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 11:09:28 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My great, great grandfather lost his whole family in the Johnstown flood. He re-married and that's why I'm here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My mom grew up in Johnstown. The flood will always be part of that town. My great, great grandfather lost his whole family in the Johnstown flood. He re-married and that's why I'm here. I read somewhere that 98 entire families ceased to exist after that flood. I'm planning on stopping by the flood museum sometime this summer, I haven't been there since I was in middle school on a field trip. I take 22 to 403 to 56 to get to my camp and the flood crosses my mind every single time I get down into town. Driving down 403 is the epitome everything that I love about PA, the scenery is beautiful. Edit: Wikipedia says 99 families. Ninety-nine entire families died in the flood,[1] including 396 children. One hundred twenty-four women and 198 men were widowed, 98 children were orphaned. One-third of the dead, 777 people, were never identified; their remains were buried in the "Plot of the Unknown" in Grandview Cemetery in Westmont. |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 11:09:36 AM EDT
[#44]
902.54' at 0700
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Posted: 2/12/2017 11:10:06 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
902.54' at 0700 why no flow values? have they been lagging? |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 11:10:31 AM EDT
[#46]
With even more flooding and the wet season extending it, how do farmers even get into their fields? The lower lying areas in the Valley are not going to be worth much except for rice.
Nobody is looking out 6 weeks/6 months in the media, it's all about the daily news cycle which is why it's been ignored up to now. The salmon fingerlings being rescued rated higher. The last time I checked the world radar and panned west into the Pacific it looked like rain for thousands of miles moving toward California - a Pineapple Express - and that is not going to facilitate getting crops in and worked in the early part of the growing season. Back here farmers aware of it would just write off even trying and wait until summer to go for one crop before winter. For big commercial farms it's already not looking good. For legal migrant pickers it's not looking good. I won't be surprised to see lettuce from Guatemala at double the price in stores. It's happened before with rain or frost. We have that problem right now, it's already too warm, but our pattern shows we can get 6-7" of snow and freezing temps late in the spring killing most of the fruit buds and damaging the early wheat. Farming is no bed of roses. We're concerned about a dam collapse but the potential long term impact of a wet spring and early summer means that ag will suffer considerably. During the '87 drought farmers switched up crops and tried pumping the acquifer but the frost in 90-91 was the major issue. It's always somethin'. |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 11:10:38 AM EDT
[#47]
I missed the second part of your live feed yesterday, did you ever make it over to the other side in the UTv?
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Posted: 2/12/2017 11:11:11 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I went through a flood once. Lost my 1st home and a 35' camper. I remember a couple state guys coming down our road (river bottom) stopped, got out and walked around for a bit. Then they left. I over heard them talking, "just think this whole area will be under 10' of water". They didn't warn anyone or offer to help, just left. I bet that's what's up with the powers that be, they know. Wouldn't doubt this one bit...
Especially in Cali |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 11:11:30 AM EDT
[#49]
There is so much weather news in Northern California right now that KCRA barely mentions the Dam news.
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Posted: 2/12/2017 11:12:01 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I took a quick google maps screenshot but it looks like there are 3 other dams pretty close to the Oroville dam (far right). Anyone know what their levels are at? Also a failure of the actual damn could be really fucking bad. http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/173545/Capture-144792.png Ho lee shit! I realized the dam was big, but not that big That earth view really gives it perspective You could build a city on it if you turned it on its side |
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