It's sad how many people are happy with paying the MSRP.

For many years, that was the point you started and negotiated down from there.

Well how much tax liability do you need to offset?

Nobody us forcing you to spend $100,000 on a brand new car  so you can keep up with the Jones.

Half the population does not live in a city.

We do not have Uber, taxis, buses, subways, etc.

These are nurses, doctors, lineman, road crews, etc.  

People that keep things alive and running.

Stuff that is needed everyday.

Transportation is a needed tool, but there are options to ride out instabilities in the market, just like everything.

What is preventing that "half of the population" from fixing what they have, and being flexible enough to find alternatives, instead of insisting on paying premiums in the immediate market and complaining about it?

You talk about keeping stuff alive and running, and that applies to vehicles too.  Vehicles, tools, electronics, etc breaking down and needing maintenance is just entropy and not something unavoidable and failing to plan flexibly for it is stupid.  Its like idiots who PLAN to retire at 55 and then the market drops and acting like they can't adjust expectations.  You think about options and adjust your plan. Another example would be food. Food is a "necessity", but I have options when I am hungry: Premium restaurants, fast food, convenience stores, waiting until I am home and making food myself.  All have choices around time and quality and cost, but I don't whine about gouging if I buy a meal out because it costs more than making one at home because I wanted food "now" instead of later.  

What happens in life is that you make decisions, and some decisions you will make suck and some choices you will make will be between options that suck, but that's life.

The only "fair" way of handling supply shortages is raising prices to what the market will bear.  If people bear it, the price is right for that market.  If the market doesn't bear the price, then over time the price will come down to a viable point.

People calling out "gouging" are saying: "I want it now! AND I want it cheap! AND I want it to be of high quality!", but moving any of the points on that triangle with a static supply results in the other points moving in a bad (for the buyer) direction.  Stop being wilfully blind to the fact that life is going to give you sucky options at some points and calling options you don't like "gouging".

I don’t think anyone has proposed getting rid of the dealers.

I don’t think anyone wants dealerships to go away.

I don’t think the makers want to deal with 90% plus of the buyers.

I don’t think most buyers are capable of buying, financing, registering, setting up, etc. without the dealership holding their hand.  

I personally am saying there should not be a law telling a buyer they cannot buy direct and telling a maker they cannot sell direct.

If the maker chooses to do so, they should be free to do some pre-screening process and let some percent of buyers buy direct if they want to.
and a buyer chooses to do so, and meets the criteria, and the maker is willing, they should be free to make an offer or direct order from the maker.

Just like I can drive 20 minutes to a gun store and buy a brand X off the shelf, order direct from brand X and have it delivered to the gun store, or drive a couple of hours to the shopfront at brand X and buy there, or, if it was not a gun- have it delivered straight to my house.  With the same warranty, etc.  If a dealer bought huge numbers from brand X at a discount better than those prices, I could buy from them.
And all of those paths have a warranty, etc.  That is a free market.

Just like I can buy beef at the chain store, have steaks delivered, get them at a local butcher shop, get a side of beef direct from the ranch, -
There is no state law saying I must go to the legally protected beef dealer.

If there is a vehicle that invoices at 87K, and stickers at 95K, _ and the maker wants to let me, I should be able to offer the maker 90K for a direct buy.
We don’t have that option right now.
Which is fine when there is oversupply and dealers are ranging from selling it from 86K to 94K and I can choose the dealer at 86K, the dealer at 88K with free oil changes and tire rotations twice a year as long as I own it, or the dealer at 93K because they are five minutes away instead of a six hour drive,

When there is under supply or a high demand item, there is a system in place that politically/legally means only the dealer has access at invoice, can charge any DAM they choose, and is de facto the only entity that can profit from this. Many of us feel the maker should be able to benefit from this situation as well, and if they choose let individual buyers compete with dealers.

What other consumer product do you negotiate with a retailer for a lower price? Other than the US and Canada, I don't think any other country sells vehicles at anything other than MSRP

I'm just shocked at how many people HAVE to have a brand new vehicle....RIGHT NOW!  Who cares if prices are crazy high.....they need it RIGHT NOW!!  

There are plenty of decent used vehicles out there at good prices....you just have to look.  

Do you want to know why prices are crazy high?  Because people will pay it.....most people only care if they can make that month payment on their 8 year auto loan

I don’t have to have a new vehicle now.
There are some people in situations that do.

I am fine with demand increasing price.

My point has been, all along-

Dealers can buy at invoice, based on an expected MSRP, but increase the price beyond MRSP.

They are legally protected to get these at invoice, but I cannot get with the maker and compete with that.  And don’t agree with laws giving them sole ability to do so.

If a vehicle invoices at 87K, with a sticker of 95K,
And the only ones available are at dealers with a 10K DAM, for 105K, only the dealer benefits.
Potentially, if both parties were willing to do so and there was no law against it-
I could offer the maker 90K. And they make 3K more than they would from the dealer, and I save 15K in the current market.

In general, About 1/3 of a dealers profits are directly related to new car sales, warranties, financing, dealer installed options, etc.,
About 1/3 from used cars sales,
And over 1/3 from parts and service.

Let that roll in a free market, not one legally forcing makers and buyers to only interact through a dealer.

Gotta ask yourself, what would your 2019 be worth without the panic? I’m betting more than $5k less than today. So, in reality it all evens out.

Possibly. Maybe not.

Yesterday that same dealer is now offering me the same Tremor for $3K UNDER sticker, and still giving me $44K for my 2019 F-150.
So no 'over-allowing' on the trade.

The market is truly crazy right now.

It really is. I traded a lowish miles 5 year old SUV that was nearly paid for (like “I owed a payment or two”nearly!) for 2/3rds of the sticker price of when it was new. I’ve never had “equity” in a vehicle at all due to depreciation… insane. I got a great deal on the new truck too, completely happy with it all.

My 2019 I paid $45K OTD with rebate and A-Plan.
I will have driven that truck for 3 years for $1K + maintenance.

I just bought a bronco, and I'd be dumb not to do this deal for a Tremor.
I'm Still kicking it around though.

Note to self, buy from granger

Customers who pay more are happier and thats a fact in the dealership world.

1000000%

The customers you actually make money on are the ones that are happy and send you more customers.

The ones you make little on are the biggest pains in the a** and cry and complain about every little thing.

The sad thing is after 20 years in the car business, someone is happy, they tell 5-10 people.  If they are pissed, they tell everyone.

Friends and Family are the worst. You always make sure you make money on them. Otherwise they will always nit pick and be unhappy.

Just dealt with a friend the other day. A YEAR ago I sell my wife's best friend a super clean 2003 grand cherokee, flawless vehicle (120k miles) for 500 over what I had in it for $3500.00. She begged to buy it because that is all her daughter had to spend. I said ok and straight out said it is immaculate but is old and needs to be maintained and not driven all over the place if she can't afford to fix it. So months later, her daughter has driven it to Tennessee,  Florida, ect. And this past Monday my wife's friend calls me to say it broke down (after 11k miles) and if I knew a towing company that was cheap and I could look at it. I have a buddies company tow it to me, come to find out it is over on last time I changed the oil and it has no oil on the dipstick and  the engine is seized. I let them know and literally get a text from my wife's best friend saying that we were the last ones to look at the vehicle and she has no faith that we did everything right and that it is sad because friendships may be lost over this....   I stated that she was over 5k miles without a oil change, it is the owners responsibility to check fluids or bring it to us, I will pay the tow bill ($45) and I can get her in to something else. Left it at that.  

Long diatribe,  but point being, as a business owner, the customers, friends and family you give deals to will almost always take it for granted. If customers want to b*tch and complain about price, then they can buy some place else.  Granted price gouging is a d**k move as well.

We’re on the same page and that’s what people outside the dealership don’t understand. Yes car dealers can suck (just like most commission based industries) but when customers get “the deal of a life time” they treat everyone at the dealer like shit because they got one over on you so it’s a pride thing in my experience. Also when it comes to the next car purchase that customer purchases it restarts that process. Then when they don’t get their way it’s even worse.

Pay MSRP and everyone’s happy

You are correct that no law should exist preventing the manufacturer from selling to you at any price they find agreeable.  I believe you are incorrect in thinking it would lead to the general public paying less.

The retail price of cars is what it is because the number of customers willing to pay that much equals the number of cars available.  Get rid of legal protection for dealers and one of three things happens.

-The manufacturer sells cars to the public at current market prices.  The buyer saves nothing.  The manufacturer brings in more revenue but takes on the expense of directly marketing to consumers.

-Manufacturers sell to the public for something less than the dealers did.  They still take on the cost of direct marketing but leave some potential revenue on the table.  That extra revenue potential attracts flippers who jack prices up to current market rates.

-Manufacturers continue to offer discounts to dealers, perhaps even declining to sell to the general public, effectively paying the dealers to deal with the hassle of direct marketing as they do now.

Are you talking about Chapman Ford?