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Quoted: Why would you need to "mess with" it? Please explain. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Seems like one more thing to fail on your and/or one more thing you have to mess with when you have a fraction of a second to draw and fire to defend your life. .....I'm sure they have their place, but I've never had an issue with a good set of night sights on my carry pistol. Why would you need to "mess with" it? Please explain. He probably thinks you have to turn the sight on when you draw. |
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Quoted: I have no handguns with RD. Not that I am against them. I just do not want to mill any of my current handguns to accept and RD. Anyone have any experience with this? https://www.meprolight.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/MepromicroRDSGlock_1024x1024.png https://www.meprolight.com/product/mepro-micrords/ View Quote My first RMR was on a dovetail mount. If you've put in the time to be proficient with irons, the increased height over bore will fuck with you more than lower, slide cut mount. It's less than optimal, but doable. Transitioning from irons to a dot is much easier with a cut slide and the sight as low as you can get it. Attached File |
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Quoted: My first RMR was on a dovetail mount. If you've put in the time to be proficient with irons, the increased height over bore will fuck with you more than lower, slide cut mount. It's less than optimal, but doable. Transitioning from irons to a dot is much easier with a cut slide and the sight as low as you can get it. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/461668/rmr__2__jpg-2566096.JPG View Quote Thanks for the feedback. |
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Quoted: Funny how all the clowns repeating the old "they'll use X against you in court!" nonsense can never give any real examples. That dumbass excuse has been used against everyfuckingthing at some point or another. Don't carry a pistol with a double stack mag. Don't carry hollow points. Don't carry "X" caliber. Don't carry in that type of holster. Don't carry a gun with night sights. Don't modify your gun in any way. Don't get training. Don't don't don't don't Whoever started that bullshit needs a throat punch. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If I put a red dot sight on my pistol would it make me more liable in a self defense shooting? Any prosecutor is going to use anything such as your conceal carry license... Point is let the jury decide on that buy a good lawyer would counter my client wants to only put bullets on the bad guy. Hell how many times in the court of public opinion have they tried to use on SD and cop interactions how many rounds they used Funny how all the clowns repeating the old "they'll use X against you in court!" nonsense can never give any real examples. That dumbass excuse has been used against everyfuckingthing at some point or another. Don't carry a pistol with a double stack mag. Don't carry hollow points. Don't carry "X" caliber. Don't carry in that type of holster. Don't carry a gun with night sights. Don't modify your gun in any way. Don't get training. Don't don't don't don't Whoever started that bullshit needs a throat punch. Why do you hate old people? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If I put a red dot sight on my pistol would it make me more liable in a self defense shooting? Any prosecutor is going to use anything such as your conceal carry license... Point is let the jury decide on that buy a good lawyer would counter my client wants to only put bullets on the bad guy. Hell how many times in the court of public opinion have they tried to use on SD and cop interactions how many rounds they used Funny how all the clowns repeating the old "they'll use X against you in court!" nonsense can never give any real examples. That dumbass excuse has been used against everyfuckingthing at some point or another. Don't carry a pistol with a double stack mag. Don't carry hollow points. Don't carry "X" caliber. Don't carry in that type of holster. Don't carry a gun with night sights. Don't modify your gun in any way. Don't get training. Don't don't don't don't Whoever started that bullshit needs a throat punch. Why do you hate old people? Why wouldn't you hate old people? |
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Quoted: Funny how all the clowns repeating the old "they'll use X against you in court!" nonsense can never give any real examples. That dumbass excuse has been used against everyfuckingthing at some point or another. Don't carry a pistol with a double stack mag. Don't carry hollow points. Don't carry "X" caliber. Don't carry in that type of holster. Don't carry a gun with night sights. Don't modify your gun in any way. Don't get training. Don't don't don't don't Whoever started that bullshit needs a throat punch. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If I put a red dot sight on my pistol would it make me more liable in a self defense shooting? Any prosecutor is going to use anything such as your conceal carry license... Point is let the jury decide on that buy a good lawyer would counter my client wants to only put bullets on the bad guy. Hell how many times in the court of public opinion have they tried to use on SD and cop interactions how many rounds they used Funny how all the clowns repeating the old "they'll use X against you in court!" nonsense can never give any real examples. That dumbass excuse has been used against everyfuckingthing at some point or another. Don't carry a pistol with a double stack mag. Don't carry hollow points. Don't carry "X" caliber. Don't carry in that type of holster. Don't carry a gun with night sights. Don't modify your gun in any way. Don't get training. Don't don't don't don't Whoever started that bullshit needs a throat punch. lol, so true. Alternatively, if people follow this shitty internet advice, and end up with subpar choices and limited skills, they may just end up not surviving the encounter. Prosecutors can't prosecute if you're dead! |
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Quoted: lol, so true. Alternatively, if people follow this shitty internet advice, and end up with subpar choices and limited skills, they may just end up not surviving the encounter. Prosecutors can't prosecute if you're dead! View Quote They did try on Kyle with the particular ammo used. Didn't work obviously. |
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Quoted: They did try on Kyle with the particular ammo used. Didn't work obviously. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: lol, so true. Alternatively, if people follow this shitty internet advice, and end up with subpar choices and limited skills, they may just end up not surviving the encounter. Prosecutors can't prosecute if you're dead! They did try on Kyle with the particular ammo used. Didn't work obviously. And he was using bulk ammo, not super duper deadly sniper ammo! I think there are two different considerations to defensive weapons. Don't put stupid shit on them like Punisher skulls, grim reapers, etc. The sort of stuff that has zero practical effect but provides iconography the prosecution can exploit. Do use quality ammo, good sights, trigger, RDS, get training, etc. These are practical things that will improve performance. Finally, accept the fact that if you use lethal force to defend yourself in certain place and circumstances, the prosecution is going to be politically incentivized to come after you for murder charges and nothing you do ahead of time will stop this. The prosecution will craft a story using whatever they can to try and put you in prison for life. That's the reality of America in 2022. For people who can't handle this, I'd suggest carrying no gun and practicing curling up into a fetal position. |
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For a new shooter, you would be better investing the scratch in a training class. If you are already experienced, then it might improve your shooting a little bit.
I personally don't like them myself, after putting 1000 rounds through my Beretta with one mounted, I just went back to the fiber optic sights I had on there, but to each his own. |
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Quoted: Unlike your picture. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/467079/Screenshot_20221017_104635_jpg-2566095.JPG View Quote Damn you! You caught it right before I fixed it. |
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Quoted: Projecting much? I bet if we took a poll you'd win the "most insufferable Arfcommer" award by a decent margin. Give it a rest man. I've NEVER seen you post something that wasn't an attempt to start an argument, or continue one. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Another provocateur toxic Dance thread! Do you feel miserable that people are happy without a red dot on their handguns?? Why the desperate need to stir the pot and create drama where there was none? Do you get your jollies by causing these drama threads while setting folks up for easy metadata mining material? Projecting much? I bet if we took a poll you'd win the "most insufferable Arfcommer" award by a decent margin. Give it a rest man. I've NEVER seen you post something that wasn't an attempt to start an argument, or continue one. Attached File |
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Quoted: He probably thinks you have to turn the sight on when you draw. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Seems like one more thing to fail on your and/or one more thing you have to mess with when you have a fraction of a second to draw and fire to defend your life. .....I'm sure they have their place, but I've never had an issue with a good set of night sights on my carry pistol. Why would you need to "mess with" it? Please explain. He probably thinks you have to turn the sight on when you draw. In fairness a lot of people's point of reference probably hasn't caught up with the times. A lot of cheaper dots either don't have MOTAC or can't go 50k hours turned on. My Fastfire got moved to my .22 as a red dot trainer for that reason in favor of newer stuff that can go the distance. |
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Definitely didn't need it. But boy did it ever speed me up and make me more accurate at distance. Now if I'm purchasing a handgun I factor in the price of a RDS into the budget.
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Quoted: They did try on Kyle with the particular ammo used. Didn't work obviously. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: lol, so true. Alternatively, if people follow this shitty internet advice, and end up with subpar choices and limited skills, they may just end up not surviving the encounter. Prosecutors can't prosecute if you're dead! They did try on Kyle with the particular ammo used. Didn't work obviously. The prosecutor threw everything at Kyle because he didn't have a case but had to try anyway because of politics. If the Kenosha Kid had used a .38 revolver loaded with FMJ, that dipshit would have still tried to attack the gun/ammo used because he had nothing else. |
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I've been shooting irons for a long time. Pistols, rifles, even had a red dot on a Mossberg turkey gun years ago. To say red dot optics aren't effective is ridiculous, they are. It's a choice and recently I chose to put a red dot on a pistol. I went from training regularly at 10 yards to training regularly at 25 yards. My pistol, my choice.
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Quoted: For a new shooter, you would be better investing the scratch in a training class. If you are already experienced, then it might improve your shooting a little bit. I personally don't like them myself, after putting 1000 rounds through my Beretta with one mounted, I just went back to the fiber optic sights I had on there, but to each his own. View Quote I tried a little experiment. I gave a friend who had never fired a gun before a Glock 19 with an SRO. She was able to make accurate hits at 25 with about a minute of instruction. I then gave her a standard Glock 17 with ameriglo sights and showed her how they work. She couldn’t hit shit. It takes new shooters a lot longer to use iron sights and be proficient than a red dot. Just from a blank slate perspective. The Army figured this out and so did the other branches with Aimpoint. Old school iron sight shooters simply have more time and emotional investment. I’ve also found that after having a red dot for awhile I shoot irons better when I have to go back to them. I say this as someone who took awhile to get into the red dot game. |
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Quoted: I tried a little experiment. I gave a friend who had never fired a gun before a Glock 19 with an SRO. She was able to make accurate hits at 25 with about a minute of instruction. I then gave her a standard Glock 17 with ameriglo sights and showed her how they work. She couldn’t hit shit. It takes new shooters a lot longer to use iron sights and be proficient than a red dot. Just from a blank slate perspective. The Army figured this out and so did the other branches with Aimpoint. Old school iron sight shooters simply have more time and emotional investment. I’ve also found that after having a red dot for awhile I shoot irons better when I have to go back to them. I say this as someone who took awhile to get into the red dot game. View Quote I did the same thing a few months ago with my daughter's boyfriend. He'd never fired a handgun before, I gave him the standard safety instructions, showed him how to grip the gun...etc...etc. Handed him my G19 with RMR and he made 5 hits in the A-Zone with his first 5 shots from about 10 yards.....not exactly a marksmanship challenge but it still impressed me for someone picking up a handgun for the first time. |
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Quoted: Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Yes. Next question. The only handgun I own that doesn’t and won’t have a RDS on it is my NAA Pug Knucklegun, and that only because it’s more of a meat tenderizer than a gun at this point. https://content.invisioncic.com/r270761/monthly_2022_08/565134DC-E1BF-453F-97AA-5B607E169830.jpeg.ce39cd5681b6e2668450a747a54921d3.jpeg Everything else gets an optic. I’m done with iron sights View Quote Seems like a perfect candidate for an MRDS |
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Quoted: Good shot that may not have been possible without that RMR. |
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Quoted: For actual, not go to jail, defensive distances, I want to try express sights. Not with the current aftermarket front bead but a custom, but a front bead that is larger than what is available from the various sight manufacturers. View Quote True. It's not like there has ever been a 40 yard shot string ending an active shooter in a mall food court. The mall rules tell me so |
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I find it ironic that lots of old timers reject RDS without ever trying them. I know I did. I had to prove it to myself, but an RDS, with minimal practice, makes you quicker and FAR more accurate. Old eyes benefit the most from an RDS pistol.
Great side affect....shooting with an RDS improves your iron sight shooting. What you THOUGHT was a good presentation of the pistol isn't...and an RDS shows you that very quickly. |
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Finally broke down and put a Romeo Zero on my P365XL (I've also got a regular P365 with no red dot), as well as my Canik TP9SFX. They're kind of cool to shoot (just like they are on my various AR pistols). Necessary? Nah. Possibly better at faster target acquisition, especially in low light? YUP. I doubt that I'll be retro-fitting all of my handguns though. Red dots are far more important on my ARs than my handguns, that are designed for arm's length engagements anyway.
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Quoted: Finally broke down and put a Romeo Zero on my P365XL (I've also got a regular P365 with no red dot), as well as my Canik TP9SFX. They're kind of cool to shoot (just like they are on my various AR pistols). Necessary? Nah. Possibly better at faster target acquisition, especially in low light? YUP. I doubt that I'll be retro-fitting all of my handguns though. Red dots are far more important on my ARs than my handguns, that are designed for arm's length engagements anyway. View Quote What happens when you shoot father away than a couple of feet? |
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Quoted: I tried a little experiment. I gave a friend who had never fired a gun before a Glock 19 with an SRO. She was able to make accurate hits at 25 with about a minute of instruction. I then gave her a standard Glock 17 with ameriglo sights and showed her how they work. She couldn’t hit shit. It takes new shooters a lot longer to use iron sights and be proficient than a red dot. Just from a blank slate perspective. The Army figured this out and so did the other branches with Aimpoint. Old school iron sight shooters simply have more time and emotional investment. I’ve also found that after having a red dot for awhile I shoot irons better when I have to go back to them. I say this as someone who took awhile to get into the red dot game. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: For a new shooter, you would be better investing the scratch in a training class. If you are already experienced, then it might improve your shooting a little bit. I personally don't like them myself, after putting 1000 rounds through my Beretta with one mounted, I just went back to the fiber optic sights I had on there, but to each his own. I tried a little experiment. I gave a friend who had never fired a gun before a Glock 19 with an SRO. She was able to make accurate hits at 25 with about a minute of instruction. I then gave her a standard Glock 17 with ameriglo sights and showed her how they work. She couldn’t hit shit. It takes new shooters a lot longer to use iron sights and be proficient than a red dot. Just from a blank slate perspective. The Army figured this out and so did the other branches with Aimpoint. Old school iron sight shooters simply have more time and emotional investment. I’ve also found that after having a red dot for awhile I shoot irons better when I have to go back to them. I say this as someone who took awhile to get into the red dot game. same experience .... My buddy brought his gf to get her shooting and gave her I think it was a sig 365 with irons. she was all over the place. He asked if I could work with her while he shot. I put a P-10 with an rmr in her hand.. had her do a few dry fires, then fire away. almost immediately her groups tightened way up and she even said.. the dot makes it so much easier. This was only her second time shooting. So take that as you will. |
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You don't "need" a pistol mounted red dot but, depending on your eyesight and the environment you are shooting in, it can be very helpful.
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Shooting red dots actually made me better with irons. Tracking a dot while rapid firing is much easier than tracking irons to begin with. That gave me the confidence to actually rapid fire at indoor ranges and I got much better with recoil control. Once I could mag dump and and track the dot well enough blow the center out of a target, I found it much easier to teach myself to track irons since I now had excellent recoil control. Honestly, I don't know if I'm any faster/slower with either.
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Quoted: I find it ironic that lots of old timers reject RDS without ever trying them. I know I did. I had to prove it to myself, but an RDS, with minimal practice, makes you quicker and FAR more accurate. Old eyes benefit the most from an RDS pistol. Great side affect....shooting with an RDS improves your iron sight shooting. What you THOUGHT was a good presentation of the pistol isn't...and an RDS shows you that very quickly. View Quote Pretty much. It is not a question of is RDS better, it is. The question is it worth the cash to the user, which has no real way of defining yes or no to, but it is obvious lots of people think it is worth it. |
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Quoted: I tried a little experiment. I gave a friend who had never fired a gun before a Glock 19 with an SRO. She was able to make accurate hits at 25 with about a minute of instruction. I then gave her a standard Glock 17 with ameriglo sights and showed her how they work. She couldn't hit shit. It takes new shooters a lot longer to use iron sights and be proficient than a red dot. Just from a blank slate perspective. The Army figured this out and so did the other branches with Aimpoint. Old school iron sight shooters simply have more time and emotional investment. I've also found that after having a red dot for awhile I shoot irons better when I have to go back to them. I say this as someone who took awhile to get into the red dot game. View Quote All these cute little gadgets can fail, then you are stuck with the fundamentals. That's why I said a beginner should invest in training instead of a pistol RDS. They definitely have merit though, I have Aimpoints on most of my rifles for a reason. |
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Op reminds me of some dumb fuck that used to work for me. Come to think of it, he's from Pennsylvania too...
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Don't have any on apistol but hopefully in the near future. If you like your red dot pistol, you can keep your red dot pistol.
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Quoted: I find it ironic that lots of old timers reject RDS without ever trying them. I know I did. I had to prove it to myself, but an RDS, with minimal practice, makes you quicker and FAR more accurate. Old eyes benefit the most from an RDS pistol. Great side affect....shooting with an RDS improves your iron sight shooting. What you THOUGHT was a good presentation of the pistol isn't...and an RDS shows you that very quickly. View Quote I see the opposite in these threads, where there are always older folks celebrating red dots. You only need to get to the second reply in this thread to see an example... and there are three or four more older guys on page 1 saying the same thing. |
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Quoted: But what happens when she picks up a gun that doesn't have a red dot, or hers breaks? All these cute little gadgets can fail, then you are stuck with the fundamentals. That's why I said a beginner should invest in training instead of a pistol RDS. They definitely have merit though, I have Aimpoints on most of my rifles for a reason. View Quote What if I told you that shooting with a MRDS will increase your skill set with irons? |
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Quoted: What if I told you that shooting with a MRDS will increase your skill set with irons? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: But what happens when she picks up a gun that doesn't have a red dot, or hers breaks? All these cute little gadgets can fail, then you are stuck with the fundamentals. That's why I said a beginner should invest in training instead of a pistol RDS. They definitely have merit though, I have Aimpoints on most of my rifles for a reason. What if I told you that shooting with a MRDS will increase your skill set with irons? Yep |
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Quoted: What if I told you that shooting with a MRDS will increase your skill set with irons? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: But what happens when she picks up a gun that doesn't have a red dot, or hers breaks? All these cute little gadgets can fail, then you are stuck with the fundamentals. That's why I said a beginner should invest in training instead of a pistol RDS. They definitely have merit though, I have Aimpoints on most of my rifles for a reason. What if I told you that shooting with a MRDS will increase your skill set with irons? Not to mention that no one has advocated that a new shooter should not learn how to use iron sights, only used the example of a new shooter with a red dot to illustrate that it makes shooting easier. |
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A dot will make poor trigger presses obvious much better than irons and help you shoot irons better.
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Quoted: What happens when you shoot father away than a couple of feet? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Finally broke down and put a Romeo Zero on my P365XL (I've also got a regular P365 with no red dot), as well as my Canik TP9SFX. They're kind of cool to shoot (just like they are on my various AR pistols). Necessary? Nah. Possibly better at faster target acquisition, especially in low light? YUP. I doubt that I'll be retro-fitting all of my handguns though. Red dots are far more important on my ARs than my handguns, that are designed for arm's length engagements anyway. What happens when you shoot father away than a couple of feet? The average gunfight is at 3 yards, and the minimum is zero, so the longest gunfight will be 6 yards and you can still point shoot at that distance. |
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"Need"? No, of course not. But it's a bonus if you do.
I don't have one on my carry guns because 1) I'm prioritizing compactness and 2) I train mostly point/shoot with them. If I need to use it, it'll likely be fast and close. I have no intention of taking long shots in a self defense CCW situation. My plan is GTFO if possible. All HD guns have optics and lights, though - both long and short. Because that's likely to happen at night and may be greater distances. And I'm not running away, they are. |
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Quoted: Projecting much? I bet if we took a poll you'd win the "most insufferable Arfcommer" award by a decent margin. Give it a rest man. I've NEVER seen you post something that wasn't an attempt to start an argument, or continue one. View Quote Quite the miserable SOB. Every thread he posts in is the same shit. Glad I don't have his life... lol |
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