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Posted: 4/4/2017 7:56:32 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Plus, becoming a skilled swordsman of any style required hours upon hours of training and practice while you could train soldiers to be effective with hammers and pole arms much quicker. |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 7:56:41 PM EST
[#2]
Regardless of which sword is better, pretty impressive holding up to 12,400 ft/on of energy.
 50 Cal Vs Katana sword |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 7:57:36 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Massive blood gushing etc A properly made samurai sword used by someone who is skilled can do some real damage with one. I'd still wager that a moderately trained person with a rifle and a little distance will fare better than a life long trained samurai with only a sword (which relies on contact proximity). |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 7:57:52 PM EST
[#4]
I mean, they do have +87 slash power ...
So, yeah, I'd say so 
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:00:25 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you ever cut yourself with a brand new benchmade? I'd imagine that a 3 foot knife that sharp could lop off a head pretty easy if you were skilled enough/ But I'm like you op I don't know shit about swords that's just a guess. A properly done samurai sword will be sharper than I make my knives......and that's saying something. |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:00:40 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. And nine times out of then the farmhand part-timer with the spear is still gonna gut the expert swordsman. And when you start adding more spears versus more swords, results will be even more lopsided. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Plus, becoming a skilled swordsman of any style required hours upon hours of training and practice while you could train soldiers to be effective with hammers and pole arms much quicker. |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:01:07 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The katana had superb cutting power, more so than the majority of European swords. The reason was the curved shape of the blade and the very sharp edge. The edge shape was complex and it could be made sharper than Euro blades since it was harder (and consequently more brittle). Euro swords evolved for the armored battlefield, and were much better for that. But they had less cutting ability. the katana as we know it today was optimized during the relatively stable edo period following a very extended time of warfare. armor during this period was de-emphasized, much like it was in europe concurrent with the proliferation of firearms. this is an important point: the katana was not contemporary with the european longswords to which it is usually compared, such as the oakeshott XVa (which pre-dates the katana by a century at least). rather, it is a contemporary of the italian rapier and napoleonic cavalry saber. the katana offers tremendous power in the cut, which is no surprise since it evolved out of the tachi--a single-hand cavalry sword. in blade profile and edge geometry, it is optimized for draw cutting (think slicing instead of chopping), which against a soft target is several orders of magnitude more efficient than a hewing strike. but the laws of physics don't change, so you're not going to cut any rifle barrels with a katana. you're not going to cut through plate armor with any sword. |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:01:19 PM EST
[#8]
Bladesmiths are reading this thread and giggling.
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:05:27 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this is pretty accurate. the katana as we know it today was optimized during the relatively stable edo period following a very extended time of warfare. armor during this period was de-emphasized, much like it was in europe concurrent with the proliferation of firearms. this is an important point: the katana was not contemporary with the european longswords to which it is usually compared, such as the oakeshott XVa (which pre-dates the katana by a century at least). rather, it is a contemporary of the italian rapier and napoleonic cavalry saber. the katana offers tremendous power in the cut, which is no surprise since it evolved out of the tachi--a single-hand cavalry sword. in blade profile and edge geometry, it is optimized for draw cutting (think slicing instead of chopping), which against a soft target is several orders of magnitude more efficient than a hewing strike. but the laws of physics don't change, so you're not going to cut any rifle barrels with a katana. you're not going to cut through plate armor with any sword. 
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:06:16 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My edge.  my katana will shave arm hair.
http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff351/basp2005/Mobile%20Uploads/20160323_145956-1_zpshzseb5iq.jpg 
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:07:10 PM EST
[#11]
WTF do people think a katana wasnt meant for fighting armor?
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:07:41 PM EST
[#12]
Japanese war technology remained fairly frozen for a much longer period of time (island nation and all that) than European war technology, which changed dramatically from generation to generation - something on the order of two dozen major types of swords developed before gunpowder changed things again.
My own Chinese martial arts instructor used to fence me (armed with a semi blunt sword) using a cane. I got many bruises from that. And he handled my hand and a half sword as easily as if it were his cane. You'll notice in the video with funny, the other guy is also very sexy with the longsword. Personally I'm fond of my early pattern Viking sword (10th century) as it is clearly designed to remove large pieces of meat at a time. I also managed to cut my self with my semi blunt training sword. And it lacks a fine edge. Just the momentum of a swing or slice will do a number on someone! |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:09:16 PM EST
[#13]
Who cares? Just carry a gun.
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:11:36 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You should try a draw stroke with a euro blade |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:16:53 PM EST
[#15]
Something something, full power shot.
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:18:24 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Plus the swords used for killing in Nanking were used on noncombatants, usually with their hands bound. In the book I recall mention of a beheading contest. It's not like the Japanese were testing their swordsmanship skills against similarly armed, peer equivalent adversaries. Anything sharp-ish would have done the same thing to a helpless prisoner. here it is: beheading contest |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:19:51 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
hell yeah--there are several euros i want (Xa, XVa, XVIIIb), and i'm not selling them short when it comes to cutting. it's just that the katana is optimized for it, while the euro straight swords are optimized for other things. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You should try a draw stroke with a euro blade )). I can't wait till I can start fencing more on a regular basis.
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:22:49 PM EST
[#18]
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:24:26 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WTF do people think a katana wasnt meant for fighting armor? https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/30/c0/2c/30c02c3fbde48a4e3e2a78f979d8e33d.jpg Is it possible that the ornate, brightly colored armor was less for peer equivalent combat and more for intimidating peasants into obeying the will of the emperor or whichever wealthy family needed their obedience? I get the feeling that the samurai were hired goons most of the time, even if their code of honor prevented them from working for more than a limited number of types of people. |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:26:05 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WTF do people think a katana wasnt meant for fighting armor? https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/30/c0/2c/30c02c3fbde48a4e3e2a78f979d8e33d.jpg 
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:27:26 PM EST
[#21]
Friends ... there are a few Marines and soldiers who are very old and still alive who observed these swords in use. Have you ever talked with them? I have and he said that they were very effective, but so was an 03 Springfield with a bayonet.
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:28:08 PM EST
[#22]
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:28:50 PM EST
[#23]
Yes, VERY Dangerous!
 Hanwei Practical XL Katana Unveiling HD |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:29:05 PM EST
[#24]
Now this is an entertaining thread.
Score one for Saiga.
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:32:58 PM EST
[#25]
It's tape.
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:38:15 PM EST
[#26]
In the hands of Musashi, very deadly to his oppents.
In my hands, very deadly to me. 
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:38:36 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WTF do people think a katana wasnt meant for fighting armor? https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/30/c0/2c/30c02c3fbde48a4e3e2a78f979d8e33d.jpg Also, the armor depicted in that picture would have not been a common Samurai. Unless they were wealthy or a higher ranked Samurai in a fairly wealthy/powerful clan, chances are their armor would have been lighter or piecemeal(perhaps a nice helmet or breastplate, the rest, maybe average or worn a bit). Ronin were not as uncommon as you think as very few Daimyo could keep large armies on the payroll for long periods of time. |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:43:36 PM EST
[#28]
Let's see in this threaD as katana is used interchangeably to describe tachi and katana..
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Posted: 4/4/2017 8:45:00 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's not a question of swords, that's a question of physiology. A properly made samurai sword used by someone who is skilled can do some real damage with one. I'd still wager that a moderately trained person with a rifle and a little distance will fare better than a life long trained samurai with only a sword (which relies on contact proximity). |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:00:49 PM EST
[#30]
I had a $250 katana back in the day. I traded it for a hopped up RC stadium truck with a nice radio, and lots of spare parts and packs. I still feel.I.got the better end of that deal.
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:09:43 PM EST
[#31]
Imagine standing a katana on it's end and letting it fall under it's own weight. I moved pretty quickly and just the very tip got me. This photo was some time (12-18 hours) after the cut and it bled for several days.
Almost seven years later, I can prove that human blood corrodes steel.
 Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:09:58 PM EST
[#32]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvgxD3O-OPI
click "CC" for subtitles. |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:14:30 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryShinichi Chiba isn't a swordsmith, he's a Japanese actor. So, what's your point?
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:16:43 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shinichi Chiba isn't a swordsmith, he's a Japanese actor. So, what's your point? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kharn |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:23:52 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wat? A blade is a blade. You would be able to achieve the same angle and sharpness with both why would knives be sharper? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Have you ever cut yourself with a brand new benchmade? I'd imagine that a 3 foot knife that sharp could lop off a head pretty easy if you were skilled enough/ But I'm like you op I don't know shit about swords that's just a guess. When my Wetterlings axe was new I could shave with it, geometry be damned. |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:24:32 PM EST
[#36]
I wish Paul Champagne were still alive. As a master sword smith of both European swords and Katanas, his knowledge and views would be priceless.
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:28:23 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They cut marginally better than some other swords due to the blade shape. Similar to a cavalry saber but not quite as much as a talwar-type blade. They were made of soft iron with a steel edge welded on. They were not tempered so they would bend and stay bent. They were no sharper than any other sword. They were not good at piercing, and so were not very good against someone with metal armor. They can be compared to a short, overweight European saber. swordsmithing "Steel’s exact flex and strength vary dramatically with heat treating. If steel cools quickly it becomes martensite, which is very hard but brittle. Slower and it becomes pearlite, which bends easily and does not hold an edge. To maximize both the cutting edge and the resilience of the sword spine, a technique of differential heat-treatment is used. In this specific process, referred to as differential hardening or differential quenching, the sword is painted with layers of clay before heating, providing a thin layer or none at all on the edge of the sword, ensuring quick cooling to maximize the hardening for the edge. A thicker layer of clay is applied to the rest of the blade, causing slower cooling. This creates softer, more resilient steel, allowing the blade to absorb shock without breaking.[17][18] This process is sometimes erroneously called differential tempering[16] but this is actually an entirely different form of heat treatment." |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:33:07 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're wrong. Real Japanese swords were not made of soft iron with a steel edge welded. No welding was involved in the manufacture of real Japanese swords. The swordsmith folded a softer (low carbon) steel over and over as well as several other steels. They didn't have welding torches in the 15th century. |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:38:33 PM EST
[#39]
The genius of japanese sword smithing was the ability to take structurally inferior materials and forge them into good steel. They were limited to materials on their islands. Before technology this was like black magic. How could they know how to forge this strong steel from lesser material?
Also the ritual of Japanese smithing was in itself a thing of beauty. That was then, however western swords usually started with higher quality steel. Now we have technology. Western style sword design is superior in every way and with modern technology, there really is no comparison. Katana cutting is good for flesh and fabric. Western sword is designed to crush bone and hack at harder material. Blocking strikes is favorable on the flat or spine of the blade to protect the edge. This is true in both eastern and western style. Much of the hollywood katana is born from the same mystique that made ninja stuff so cool in the 80s. The japanese have a way of making things really interesting. They also respect their culture and value it. In the western world martial sword art was forgotten after the gun. My personal favorite is 14th century german bastard sword style with hollow ground blade profile. Check out Albion swords. |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:41:07 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shinichi Chiba isn't a swordsmith, he's a Japanese actor. So, what's your point? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:43:43 PM EST
[#41]
Quote History
Yeah, not really a accurate test. Swords were swung in a completely different manner by someone not at all proficient in their use. |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:44:01 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're wrong. Real Japanese swords were not made of soft iron with a steel edge welded. No welding was involved in the manufacture of real Japanese swords. The swordsmith folded a softer (low carbon) steel over and over as well as several other steels. They didn't have welding torches in the 15th century. Forge Welding And speaking of swords, I just ordered this: 
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:45:07 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because everything you said was wrong. Euro swords can be just as sharp with very good steel. Have you tried Tameshigiri with both? I have. I'd prefer a euro hand and a half sword or a saber over a katana. Longer blade, better cutter, and more hand protection. I have way more experience with katanas as well but see their shortcomings. |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:46:28 PM EST
[#44]
I think Samurai swords have a certain thing about them that causes people to forget about mechanical engineering, physics, and metallurgy and go right for the mystical.
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:52:55 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now we have technology. Western style sword design is superior in every way and with modern technology, there really is no comparison. Katana cutting is good for flesh and fabric. Western sword is designed to crush bone and hack at harder material. then explain what you mean when you say that the "western style sword design" is superior. superior at what specifically, with what limitations, and in what contexts? i'll save you some time: like any weapon, a sword is a collection of design tradeoffs. so explain those tradeoffs in detail for each type of sword that you're trying to pass judgment on. |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:54:02 PM EST
[#46]
my uncle brought this back from WWII. it's is scary freaking sharp and the curve of the blade gives it a powerful swing. I would say it would cut a head off quite easily.
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:54:41 PM EST
[#47]
The true secret of the katana's power are the slow poses and intense staring.
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:55:02 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've got axes that will cut freestanding hair with an edge completely appropriate to felling hard wood trees. Why would you not be able to sharpen a sword that sharp? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Have you ever cut yourself with a brand new benchmade? I'd imagine that a 3 foot knife that sharp could lop off a head pretty easy if you were skilled enough/ But I'm like you op I don't know shit about swords that's just a guess. 
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:57:07 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've practiced iado, kenjitsu, and kendo. Give me a proper European saber everyday of the week |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 9:59:51 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree but... A proper long sword. I really like having some space between my hands. It does wonders for torque and fine movements |
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