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Posted: 2/23/2023 5:57:14 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's the full excerpt again. A clear list, in law. You owe me a P-mag Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is your son an alien individual, or is he a resident of LA? So that entire section doesn't apply to him. Here's right from your OMV site, a handy guide...notice the requirements at the top. https://expresslane.dps.louisiana.gov/cdlforms/identification%20requirements.pdf SOCIAL SECURITY REQUIREMENT All applicants eligible for a social security number must provide the assigned number when applying for a driver's license. Although the Social Security Number will not be displayed on the face of the license, that number must be entered in the department's internal records. Any alien residing in Louisiana who does not possess and is ineligible to obtain a social security number shall be required to furnish a letter from the Social Security Administration stipulating they are "ineligible" or that they "have not been issued" a social security number for a Class D or E driver's license. In order to comply with the Military Selective Service Act, R.S. 32:40:1321(D)(1), the Social Security Number is required from all male US citizens or immigrants age 15 to 26 who apply for a driver's license. Failure to provide the SSN will result in the denial of issuance. On top of that I linked all of the laws. The section I posted was the only one that applied to social security numbers. I don't know what to tell you. The entire law again The law There is a link to the entire section pertaining to applying for a drivers license. If you can find a statement that says anyone is required to have a SS number I'll send you a P-mag. The brochure is wrong and it's written in a manner that is intentionally confusing. Using that link, there is this pesky little bit in there. (viii) Any other information required by the department. (ix) Proof of Louisiana residency. Proof of residency shall include but not be limited to paid receipts for utility bills and bank statements. (x) One primary and two secondary documents of identification or two primary documents of identification from a list of acceptable documents determined by the department. However, such documentation shall include at least one of the following: The list of required documents is available on the OMV site. And as mentioned before, there is NO requirement in the law for a SS number. So "any other information required by the dept." subsection doesn't include SS number because that was addressed in the section right above it that doesn't require the SS number. I don't care what a website or brochure says. It's not the law, the law is the law. Here's the full excerpt again. (2) An applicant for a driver's license shall provide the following information: (a) Full name. (b) Current mailing address. (c) Current residential address. However, law enforcement officers, court officers, and members of their immediate families as defined in R.S. 32:409(C) shall be given the option of providing their official work address or post office box address instead of a residential address. If a person exercises such option, then the person shall not be eligible for voter registration at the driver's license facility as provided for in R.S. 18:114. (d) Identifying information including: (i) Date of birth (month, day, and year). (ii) Sex. (iii) Height. (iv) Weight. (v) Eye and hair color. (vi) Social security number. A clear list, in law. You owe me a P-mag He does owe you s Pmag, but I wouldn't give out my address to receive it if I were you. |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 5:59:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He does owe you s Pmag, but I wouldn't give out my address to receive it if I were you. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is your son an alien individual, or is he a resident of LA? So that entire section doesn't apply to him. Here's right from your OMV site, a handy guide...notice the requirements at the top. https://expresslane.dps.louisiana.gov/cdlforms/identification%20requirements.pdf SOCIAL SECURITY REQUIREMENT All applicants eligible for a social security number must provide the assigned number when applying for a driver's license. Although the Social Security Number will not be displayed on the face of the license, that number must be entered in the department's internal records. Any alien residing in Louisiana who does not possess and is ineligible to obtain a social security number shall be required to furnish a letter from the Social Security Administration stipulating they are "ineligible" or that they "have not been issued" a social security number for a Class D or E driver's license. In order to comply with the Military Selective Service Act, R.S. 32:40:1321(D)(1), the Social Security Number is required from all male US citizens or immigrants age 15 to 26 who apply for a driver's license. Failure to provide the SSN will result in the denial of issuance. On top of that I linked all of the laws. The section I posted was the only one that applied to social security numbers. I don't know what to tell you. The entire law again The law There is a link to the entire section pertaining to applying for a drivers license. If you can find a statement that says anyone is required to have a SS number I'll send you a P-mag. The brochure is wrong and it's written in a manner that is intentionally confusing. Using that link, there is this pesky little bit in there. (viii) Any other information required by the department. (ix) Proof of Louisiana residency. Proof of residency shall include but not be limited to paid receipts for utility bills and bank statements. (x) One primary and two secondary documents of identification or two primary documents of identification from a list of acceptable documents determined by the department. However, such documentation shall include at least one of the following: The list of required documents is available on the OMV site. And as mentioned before, there is NO requirement in the law for a SS number. So "any other information required by the dept." subsection doesn't include SS number because that was addressed in the section right above it that doesn't require the SS number. I don't care what a website or brochure says. It's not the law, the law is the law. Here's the full excerpt again. (2) An applicant for a driver's license shall provide the following information: (a) Full name. (b) Current mailing address. (c) Current residential address. However, law enforcement officers, court officers, and members of their immediate families as defined in R.S. 32:409(C) shall be given the option of providing their official work address or post office box address instead of a residential address. If a person exercises such option, then the person shall not be eligible for voter registration at the driver's license facility as provided for in R.S. 18:114. (d) Identifying information including: (i) Date of birth (month, day, and year). (ii) Sex. (iii) Height. (iv) Weight. (v) Eye and hair color. (vi) Social security number. A clear list, in law. You owe me a P-mag He does owe you s Pmag, but I wouldn't give out my address to receive it if I were you. It's the principle of it more than anything. I wonder if I can apply for an ITIN and get a PO Box using that number....for safety. |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 6:39:45 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's the principle of it more than anything. I wonder if I can apply for an ITIN and get a PO Box using that number....for safety. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is your son an alien individual, or is he a resident of LA? So that entire section doesn't apply to him. Here's right from your OMV site, a handy guide...notice the requirements at the top. https://expresslane.dps.louisiana.gov/cdlforms/identification%20requirements.pdf SOCIAL SECURITY REQUIREMENT All applicants eligible for a social security number must provide the assigned number when applying for a driver's license. Although the Social Security Number will not be displayed on the face of the license, that number must be entered in the department's internal records. Any alien residing in Louisiana who does not possess and is ineligible to obtain a social security number shall be required to furnish a letter from the Social Security Administration stipulating they are "ineligible" or that they "have not been issued" a social security number for a Class D or E driver's license. In order to comply with the Military Selective Service Act, R.S. 32:40:1321(D)(1), the Social Security Number is required from all male US citizens or immigrants age 15 to 26 who apply for a driver's license. Failure to provide the SSN will result in the denial of issuance. On top of that I linked all of the laws. The section I posted was the only one that applied to social security numbers. I don't know what to tell you. The entire law again The law There is a link to the entire section pertaining to applying for a drivers license. If you can find a statement that says anyone is required to have a SS number I'll send you a P-mag. The brochure is wrong and it's written in a manner that is intentionally confusing. Using that link, there is this pesky little bit in there. (viii) Any other information required by the department. (ix) Proof of Louisiana residency. Proof of residency shall include but not be limited to paid receipts for utility bills and bank statements. (x) One primary and two secondary documents of identification or two primary documents of identification from a list of acceptable documents determined by the department. However, such documentation shall include at least one of the following: The list of required documents is available on the OMV site. And as mentioned before, there is NO requirement in the law for a SS number. So "any other information required by the dept." subsection doesn't include SS number because that was addressed in the section right above it that doesn't require the SS number. I don't care what a website or brochure says. It's not the law, the law is the law. Here's the full excerpt again. (2) An applicant for a driver's license shall provide the following information: (a) Full name. (b) Current mailing address. (c) Current residential address. However, law enforcement officers, court officers, and members of their immediate families as defined in R.S. 32:409(C) shall be given the option of providing their official work address or post office box address instead of a residential address. If a person exercises such option, then the person shall not be eligible for voter registration at the driver's license facility as provided for in R.S. 18:114. (d) Identifying information including: (i) Date of birth (month, day, and year). (ii) Sex. (iii) Height. (iv) Weight. (v) Eye and hair color. (vi) Social security number. A clear list, in law. You owe me a P-mag He does owe you s Pmag, but I wouldn't give out my address to receive it if I were you. It's the principle of it more than anything. I wonder if I can apply for an ITIN and get a PO Box using that number....for safety. But you might end up with a lien put on the PMAG. |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 6:46:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Send me the $1B debit card and I'll profess to be whatever you want.
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Posted: 2/23/2023 6:50:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's the principle of it more than anything. I wonder if I can apply for an ITIN and get a PO Box using that number....for safety. (vi) Social security number. Any alien individual residing in Louisiana who does not possess and is ineligible to obtain a social security number shall not be required to furnish a social security number for issuance of a Class "E" driver's license. However, prior to the issuance of a Class "E" driver's license, in addition to other required documentation, the department shall require the alien individual to present a document demonstrating lawful presence in the United States in a status in which the alien individual may be ineligible to obtain a social security number. The list of acceptable documents demonstrating lawful presence shall be determined by the department. The department shall maintain confidentiality of an applicant's social security number. The department shall not deny any person a driver's license or a renewal if that person has not obtained a government-issued social security number based on Section 7 of Pub. L. 93-579 Section (a)(1). (see below) Sec. 7. [5 U.S.C. 552a note] (a)(1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual's refusal to disclose his social security account number. (2) the[330] provisions of paragraph (1) of this subsection shall not apply with respect to (A) any disclosure which is required by Federal statute, or (B) the disclosure of a social security number to any Federal, State, or local agency maintaining a system of records in existence and operating before January 1, 1975, if such disclosure was required under statute or regulation adopted prior to such date to verify the identity of an individual. Since the section above says a privilege can't be denied AND Per Louisiana State Law 32:431 Driving is defined as a privilege AND the disclosure is demanded by the state (not federally) AND the requirement in Louisiana wasn't in place before 1975, they have to issue a drivers license even if you have no Social Security number. Per the info above, it's clearly not required. Since you've been a good sport, I'll still send your P-Mag. Shoot me your address in a PM. I assure you, it's perfectly safe LOL. |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 8:22:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Resident, citizen, born here in LA. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is your son an alien individual, or is he a resident of LA? Resident, citizen, born here in LA. |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 8:30:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nice try. Notice that is for a "special identification card" and not a drivers license. Also, you only have to provide a social security number "if available", never says it's a requirement. For the record, I absolutely appreciate your tenacity. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is your son an alien individual, or is he a resident of LA? So that entire section doesn't apply to him. Here's right from your OMV site, a handy guide...notice the requirements at the top. https://expresslane.dps.louisiana.gov/cdlforms/identification%20requirements.pdf SOCIAL SECURITY REQUIREMENT All applicants eligible for a social security number must provide the assigned number when applying for a driver's license. Although the Social Security Number will not be displayed on the face of the license, that number must be entered in the department's internal records. Any alien residing in Louisiana who does not possess and is ineligible to obtain a social security number shall be required to furnish a letter from the Social Security Administration stipulating they are "ineligible" or that they "have not been issued" a social security number for a Class D or E driver's license. In order to comply with the Military Selective Service Act, R.S. 32:40:1321(D)(1), the Social Security Number is required from all male US citizens or immigrants age 15 to 26 who apply for a driver's license. Failure to provide the SSN will result in the denial of issuance. On top of that I linked all of the laws. The section I posted was the only one that applied to social security numbers. I don't know what to tell you. The entire law again The law There is a link to the entire section pertaining to applying for a drivers license. If you can find a statement that says anyone is required to have a SS number I'll send you a P-mag. The brochure is wrong and it's written in a manner that is intentionally confusing. This law? http://www.legis.la.gov/Legis/Law.aspx?d=97429 (b)(i) Any United States male citizen or immigrant who is fifteen years of age, but less than eighteen years of age, shall provide personal information, including a social security number, if available, to the office of motor vehicles when applying to receive or renew a special identification card for the purpose of registration with the Selective Service. Upon the applicant attaining the age of eighteen years, the applicant shall automatically be registered with the Selective Service. The office of motor vehicles shall forward to the Selective Service System, in an electronic format, the necessary personal information required for registration with the Selective Service after receiving the application to issue or renew a special identification card. The application for issuance or renewal of a special identification card shall include all information required according to the provisions of R.S. 32:418. (ii) The office of motor vehicles shall not issue or renew any special identification card to any person who refuses to provide personal information for registration with the Selective Service Nice try. Notice that is for a "special identification card" and not a drivers license. Also, you only have to provide a social security number "if available", never says it's a requirement. For the record, I absolutely appreciate your tenacity. @Eitek1, you Are aware of the REAL ID Act right?  Attached FileYour state requires a social security number to be issued a REAL ID Act compliant driver's license or identification card. https://www.expresslane.org/drivers/personal-driver-s-licenses/real-id/ |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 8:31:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wanna see something crazy, per the Selective Service website If you have a social security number, you are required to provide it. [50 U.S.C. 3802(b); 32 CFR 1615.4(a)]. However, you are not required to have a social security number to register with Selective Service. SSS FAQ The NY DMV isn't even following the SSS guidelines around having a SS number to register. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't know what to tell you man. Walk into any OMV and try to get a new license without an SSN and see how it goes. They can't really spell it out any clearer, here's the list of things you need to have with you when you apply. If you don't have them they are going to just say "Oh...come back when you do". The law as written enforces these requirements. Hell, your son is 14, he can go apply for a learner's permit today...take him and see how it goes. https://www.expresslane.org/drivers/personal-driver-s-licenses/new-licenses/ The privacy act does not apply. It's in regards to rights, benefits and privileges provided by law. A driver's license is not provided by law, it's optional. The OMV does this here. If you have a social security number, you are required to provide it. [50 U.S.C. 3802(b); 32 CFR 1615.4(a)]. However, you are not required to have a social security number to register with Selective Service. SSS FAQ The NY DMV isn't even following the SSS guidelines around having a SS number to register. |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 8:59:29 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: and that clear list says... (vi) Social security number. Any alien individual residing in Louisiana who does not possess and is ineligible to obtain a social security number shall not be required to furnish a social security number for issuance of a Class "E" driver's license. However, prior to the issuance of a Class "E" driver's license, in addition to other required documentation, the department shall require the alien individual to present a document demonstrating lawful presence in the United States in a status in which the alien individual may be ineligible to obtain a social security number. The list of acceptable documents demonstrating lawful presence shall be determined by the department. The department shall maintain confidentiality of an applicant's social security number. The department shall not deny any person a driver's license or a renewal if that person has not obtained a government-issued social security number based on Section 7 of Pub. L. 93-579 Section (a)(1). (see below) Sec. 7. [5 U.S.C. 552a note] (a)(1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual's refusal to disclose his social security account number. (2) the[330] provisions of paragraph (1) of this subsection shall not apply with respect to (A) any disclosure which is required by Federal statute, or (B) the disclosure of a social security number to any Federal, State, or local agency maintaining a system of records in existence and operating before January 1, 1975, if such disclosure was required under statute or regulation adopted prior to such date to verify the identity of an individual. Since the section above says a privilege can't be denied AND Per Louisiana State Law 32:431 Driving is defined as a privilege AND the disclosure is demanded by the state (not federally) AND the requirement in Louisiana wasn't in place before 1975, they have to issue a drivers license even if you have no Social Security number. Per the info above, it's clearly not required. Since you've been a good sport, I'll still send your P-Mag. Shoot me your address in a PM. I assure you, it's perfectly safe LOL. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's the principle of it more than anything. I wonder if I can apply for an ITIN and get a PO Box using that number....for safety. (vi) Social security number. Any alien individual residing in Louisiana who does not possess and is ineligible to obtain a social security number shall not be required to furnish a social security number for issuance of a Class "E" driver's license. However, prior to the issuance of a Class "E" driver's license, in addition to other required documentation, the department shall require the alien individual to present a document demonstrating lawful presence in the United States in a status in which the alien individual may be ineligible to obtain a social security number. The list of acceptable documents demonstrating lawful presence shall be determined by the department. The department shall maintain confidentiality of an applicant's social security number. The department shall not deny any person a driver's license or a renewal if that person has not obtained a government-issued social security number based on Section 7 of Pub. L. 93-579 Section (a)(1). (see below) Sec. 7. [5 U.S.C. 552a note] (a)(1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual's refusal to disclose his social security account number. (2) the[330] provisions of paragraph (1) of this subsection shall not apply with respect to (A) any disclosure which is required by Federal statute, or (B) the disclosure of a social security number to any Federal, State, or local agency maintaining a system of records in existence and operating before January 1, 1975, if such disclosure was required under statute or regulation adopted prior to such date to verify the identity of an individual. Since the section above says a privilege can't be denied AND Per Louisiana State Law 32:431 Driving is defined as a privilege AND the disclosure is demanded by the state (not federally) AND the requirement in Louisiana wasn't in place before 1975, they have to issue a drivers license even if you have no Social Security number. Per the info above, it's clearly not required. Since you've been a good sport, I'll still send your P-Mag. Shoot me your address in a PM. I assure you, it's perfectly safe LOL. Well then, as long as he waits until he's 27 to get his license, then he should be good. In order to comply with the Military Selective Service Act, R.S. 32:40:1321(D)(1), the Social Security Number is required from all male US citizens or immigrants age 15 to 26 who apply for a driver's license. Failure to provide the SSN will result in the denial of issuance. |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 10:20:42 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The "am I being detained" phrase has nothing to do with SCs. I have almost a 1000 unanswered messages from people currently asking me to look at their legal issues, mostly involving the police. I'd guess probably 1, maybe 2 of those, involve actual SCs. I hear from a lot of people, and I'd say they are actually pretty rare. Part of the problem is that police training must focus on SCs quite a lot. Sort of like the white supremacy threat that exists all around us, according to the federal government and the SPLC. I see many examples of people being wrongly accused of being SCs, or labeled as SCs by cops. You can look at the Wilkey case out of KY for instance. The "am I being detained" phrase serves an important person, as cops are taught to use/abuse so-called "consensual encounters" to effectively detain someone without ever triggering 4A protections. Technically they are free to leave, but the cop isn't going to tell them that. Many people assume otherwise and just answer questions and go along with it. Asking the question forces them to be honest and triggers your 4A protections. It's no different than asking for a lawyer, pleading the 5th, etc. Asserting your constitutional rights. Doesn't really have anything to do with SCs. Exactly. Thank you. |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 11:01:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Eitek1, you Are aware of the REAL ID Act right? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/LA_Readl_ID_Act_jpg-2722432.JPG Your state requires a social security number to be issued a REAL ID Act compliant driver's license or identification card. https://www.expresslane.org/drivers/personal-driver-s-licenses/real-id/ It's optional (see below). Also, my son has a passport and that works for everything anyway. (3) Any person applying for a driver's license pursuant to the provisions of this Chapter, who elects not to apply for a driver's license that complies with REAL ID standards, and who is otherwise eligible to be issued a driver's license pursuant to the provisions of this Chapter, shall be issued a driver's license which indicates the driver's license is not in compliance with REAL ID. |
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Posted: 2/23/2023 11:09:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Cheese and crackers this went to 7 pages Ricky ticky. That means there must be a savory jewel in there somewhere. I'll ask for for a 10 cent version, but imma guess 2 or 3 members slipped the dog that the have joinderphobia as things went slippity sideways fast. #godsaysicantravel!
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Posted: 2/24/2023 10:08:48 AM EDT
[#13]
The Indians were sovereign citizens. You saw how they ended up.
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Posted: 2/25/2023 11:00:46 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 2/25/2023 11:16:41 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Miami_JBT It's optional (see below). Also, my son has a passport and that works for everything anyway. (3) Any person applying for a driver's license pursuant to the provisions of this Chapter, who elects not to apply for a driver's license that complies with REAL ID standards, and who is otherwise eligible to be issued a driver's license pursuant to the provisions of this Chapter, shall be issued a driver's license which indicates the driver's license is not in compliance with REAL ID. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @Eitek1, you Are aware of the REAL ID Act right? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/LA_Readl_ID_Act_jpg-2722432.JPG Your state requires a social security number to be issued a REAL ID Act compliant driver's license or identification card. https://www.expresslane.org/drivers/personal-driver-s-licenses/real-id/ It's optional (see below). Also, my son has a passport and that works for everything anyway. (3) Any person applying for a driver's license pursuant to the provisions of this Chapter, who elects not to apply for a driver's license that complies with REAL ID standards, and who is otherwise eligible to be issued a driver's license pursuant to the provisions of this Chapter, shall be issued a driver's license which indicates the driver's license is not in compliance with REAL ID. He still won't be able to fly commercial airlines..so passport will only do him good for Canada and mexico...yay |
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Posted: 2/26/2023 11:32:18 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He still won't be able to fly commercial airlines..so passport will only do him good for Canada and mexico...yay Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: @Eitek1, you Are aware of the REAL ID Act right? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/LA_Readl_ID_Act_jpg-2722432.JPG Your state requires a social security number to be issued a REAL ID Act compliant driver's license or identification card. https://www.expresslane.org/drivers/personal-driver-s-licenses/real-id/ It's optional (see below). Also, my son has a passport and that works for everything anyway. (3) Any person applying for a driver's license pursuant to the provisions of this Chapter, who elects not to apply for a driver's license that complies with REAL ID standards, and who is otherwise eligible to be issued a driver's license pursuant to the provisions of this Chapter, shall be issued a driver's license which indicates the driver's license is not in compliance with REAL ID. He still won't be able to fly commercial airlines..so passport will only do him good for Canada and mexico...yay passport will get you on any airline anywhere pretty much. |
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