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Posted: 7/7/2020 8:20:39 PM EDT
[#1]
This is now a Mortar combat footage thread...
 Mortar Crew Picks A Fight With 70+ Taliban |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 8:21:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Infantrymen will stop carrying mortars when they stop carrying rifles and machine guns.
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Posted: 7/7/2020 8:21:28 PM EDT
[#3]
No offense OP, but your cognitive ability seems to have decreased significantly in the past couple months. I think you should make an appointment with your primary care provider.
Be well. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 8:25:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Ugh, yes.
Though some MTR teams can't hit their targets for crap and have to walk rounds in. (At least that was our experience in AFG with 120's and the MTR team attached to us) |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 8:25:44 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah but don’t expect the mortar section to be at work after lunch. Our Company Commanders never wanted to know where we were at in peacetime. Offered a lot of opportunities to skate when I was enlisted and as an officer. Yeah officers can skate too. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 8:27:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 11B here (in another life). Much respect for Charlie's. ... but fuck humping or jumping that shit. We used mules in the early 80s. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 8:29:55 PM EDT
[#7]
 COMBAT FOOTAGE Marines in firefight beat Taliban ambush with 60mm Mortar Fire |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 8:31:00 PM EDT
[#8]
yes my first fire fight ended with mortars9 were fired total.
 I rAQ 03 |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 12:52:13 AM EDT
[#9]
Bump.
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Posted: 7/8/2020 6:54:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Do they still teach you how to use whiz wheels or is all computers now?
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Posted: 7/8/2020 10:00:55 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s a small charge in the base, but most of the range comes from donut-shaped propellant charges that you place on the “stem” or whatever is above the tailfins. More donuts = more range. Mortars (like artillery/howitzers) are fired at 45-90 degrees, as opposed to cannon (like a tank gun, for example), which are fired at 0-45 degrees. This makes mortars & howitzers ideal for supporting fire from behind your units, since they can fire over you (and over cover that the enemy might be behind). So cannon is direct fire, and mortar/howitzer is indirect fire, if that makes sense. (I’m probably not using the correct American technical terms.  )Not a mortarman, but I would think they wouldn't allow a 90 degrees setting as that would be bad.  For artillery/howitzers, they do have a direct fire mode (model I was on could do a -2 to 60 degrees of elevation) and it is practiced more often than you think. A 200lb HE shell will screw up just about anything if you can hit with it. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 10:47:55 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not a mortarman, but I would think they wouldn't allow a 90 degrees setting as that would be bad. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There’s a small charge in the base, but most of the range comes from donut-shaped propellant charges that you place on the “stem” or whatever is above the tailfins. More donuts = more range. Mortars (like artillery/howitzers) are fired at 45-90 degrees, as opposed to cannon (like a tank gun, for example), which are fired at 0-45 degrees. This makes mortars & howitzers ideal for supporting fire from behind your units, since they can fire over you (and over cover that the enemy might be behind). So cannon is direct fire, and mortar/howitzer is indirect fire, if that makes sense. (I’m probably not using the correct American technical terms. )Not a mortarman, but I would think they wouldn't allow a 90 degrees setting as that would be bad. BROKEN ARROW!!!
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Posted: 7/8/2020 10:57:27 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BROKEN ARROW!!! Well I guess that might work, but your percentage of survival would go way down. 
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Posted: 7/8/2020 11:00:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well I guess that might work, but your percentage of survival would go way down. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: BROKEN ARROW!!! Well I guess that might work, but your percentage of survival would go way down. When I originally typed 45-90, I did think to myself that it probably shouldn’t be 90 - but I couldn’t decide what to type instead. I mean, 89 still seems like a pretty bad idea, and I didn’t want to just arbitrarily pick 85, or 83 or something, so I went with the “technically correct” number of 90. In retrospect, I should probably have typed 87. 
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Posted: 7/8/2020 11:04:29 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BROKEN ARROW!!! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There’s a small charge in the base, but most of the range comes from donut-shaped propellant charges that you place on the “stem” or whatever is above the tailfins. More donuts = more range. Mortars (like artillery/howitzers) are fired at 45-90 degrees, as opposed to cannon (like a tank gun, for example), which are fired at 0-45 degrees. This makes mortars & howitzers ideal for supporting fire from behind your units, since they can fire over you (and over cover that the enemy might be behind). So cannon is direct fire, and mortar/howitzer is indirect fire, if that makes sense. (I’m probably not using the correct American technical terms. )Not a mortarman, but I would think they wouldn't allow a 90 degrees setting as that would be bad. BROKEN ARROW!!! Our Lady of blessed wind don't fail me now! |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 11:10:33 AM EDT
[#16]
Edit: Found it. Nemo.  Introducing Patria Nemo Container - a heavy mortar system with high mobility |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 11:20:15 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ugh, yes. Though some MTR teams can't hit their targets for crap and have to walk rounds in. (At least that was our experience in AFG with 120's and the MTR team attached to us) Could it have been due in part to inaccurate target location provided by the person calling for fire? |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 11:22:44 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not a mortarman, but I would think they wouldn't allow a 90 degrees setting as that would be bad. For artillery/howitzers, they do have a direct fire mode (model I was on could do a -2 to 60 degrees of elevation) and it is practiced more often than you think. A 200lb HE shell will screw up just about anything if you can hit with it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There’s a small charge in the base, but most of the range comes from donut-shaped propellant charges that you place on the “stem” or whatever is above the tailfins. More donuts = more range. Mortars (like artillery/howitzers) are fired at 45-90 degrees, as opposed to cannon (like a tank gun, for example), which are fired at 0-45 degrees. This makes mortars & howitzers ideal for supporting fire from behind your units, since they can fire over you (and over cover that the enemy might be behind). So cannon is direct fire, and mortar/howitzer is indirect fire, if that makes sense. (I’m probably not using the correct American technical terms. )Not a mortarman, but I would think they wouldn't allow a 90 degrees setting as that would be bad. For artillery/howitzers, they do have a direct fire mode (model I was on could do a -2 to 60 degrees of elevation) and it is practiced more often than you think. A 200lb HE shell will screw up just about anything if you can hit with it. A Marine battery engaged Iraqi armor with direct fire artillery in Desert Storm. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 11:45:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryAre they really loud and why so much packing around the fins? I was a reservist laundry and shower specialist so fuck if I know? |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 11:47:14 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A Marine battery engaged Iraqi armor with direct fire artillery in Desert Storm. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There's a small charge in the base, but most of the range comes from donut-shaped propellant charges that you place on the "stem" or whatever is above the tailfins. More donuts = more range. Mortars (like artillery/howitzers) are fired at 45-90 degrees, as opposed to cannon (like a tank gun, for example), which are fired at 0-45 degrees. This makes mortars & howitzers ideal for supporting fire from behind your units, since they can fire over you (and over cover that the enemy might be behind). So cannon is direct fire, and mortar/howitzer is indirect fire, if that makes sense. (I'm probably not using the correct American technical terms. )Not a mortarman, but I would think they wouldn't allow a 90 degrees setting as that would be bad. For artillery/howitzers, they do have a direct fire mode (model I was on could do a -2 to 60 degrees of elevation) and it is practiced more often than you think. A 200lb HE shell will screw up just about anything if you can hit with it. A Marine battery engaged Iraqi armor with direct fire artillery in Desert Storm. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 11:51:01 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Go on... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There's a small charge in the base, but most of the range comes from donut-shaped propellant charges that you place on the "stem" or whatever is above the tailfins. More donuts = more range. Mortars (like artillery/howitzers) are fired at 45-90 degrees, as opposed to cannon (like a tank gun, for example), which are fired at 0-45 degrees. This makes mortars & howitzers ideal for supporting fire from behind your units, since they can fire over you (and over cover that the enemy might be behind). So cannon is direct fire, and mortar/howitzer is indirect fire, if that makes sense. (I'm probably not using the correct American technical terms. )Not a mortarman, but I would think they wouldn't allow a 90 degrees setting as that would be bad. For artillery/howitzers, they do have a direct fire mode (model I was on could do a -2 to 60 degrees of elevation) and it is practiced more often than you think. A 200lb HE shell will screw up just about anything if you can hit with it. A Marine battery engaged Iraqi armor with direct fire artillery in Desert Storm. I believe they destroyed a couple of BMPs and the rest of the Iraqis were like....  Edit: I remember hearing the info about the armor with the BMP destruction being passed over the radio. Initially they were calling for air support then engaged with direct fire and chased the Iraqis off. I could be confusing it with another action where an Iraqi armor column came within visual site of our TF CP and adjacent artillery positions and were engaged by our TOWs though. It was a few years ago. This mentions an arty direct fire engagement at 800 meters that destroyed an Iraqi MLRS not a BMP. The arty was pushed way forward to support the armor and infantry attacking past them. https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/U.S.%20Marines%20in%20the%20Persian%20Gulf,%201990-1991_With%20the%20I%20Marine%20Expeditionary%20Force%20in%20Desert%20Shield.pdf?ver=2017-06-01-134642-233 |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 12:13:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I went through IMPC in 1982 as a 1LT. FDC was easy, but I learned how to use a plotting board when I was an 11C in an 81mm section. Only time I got to handle a 60mm. Fortunately one of our fellow students was a section sergeant in the 2/75. Rangers were the only ones using it back then. I have most of the material from those days in case you need to bone up.   |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 12:14:34 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was IMPC FDC Branch Chief May 1982 to Aug 83 so you may have been in a class of mine. I have most of the material from those days in case you need to bone up. https://i.imgur.com/kwco1iz.jpg https://i.imgur.com/7ODFNi5.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I went through IMPC in 1982 as a 1LT. FDC was easy, but I learned how to use a plotting board when I was an 11C in an 81mm section. Only time I got to handle a 60mm. Fortunately one of our fellow students was a section sergeant in the 2/75. Rangers were the only ones using it back then. I have most of the material from those days in case you need to bone up. https://i.imgur.com/kwco1iz.jpg https://i.imgur.com/7ODFNi5.jpg I remember exactly NOTHING ... and I was (very) briefly a 60mm mortar instructor/range officer.
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Posted: 7/8/2020 12:20:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was IMPC FDC Branch Chief May 1982 to Aug 83 so you may have been in a class of mine. I have most of the material from those days in case you need to bone up. https://i.imgur.com/kwco1iz.jpg https://i.imgur.com/7ODFNi5.jpg One of my classmates from IOBC was the OIC. His name was Brady. I remember this skinny former Ranger NCO who was a hoot but I can't remember his name. I went through in March-April 1982. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 12:21:05 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember exactly NOTHING ... and I was (very) briefly a 60mm mortar instructor/range officer. IIRC in the early 90's or so the IRA fired some mortar rounds at Buckingham Palace or 10 Downing Street, and missed. I remember thinking they should have taken the Infantry Mortar Platoon Course taught by yours truly. Might not have hit the Queen in the tit, but I'll bet they would have done better than what they did. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 12:25:44 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What a slacker. IIRC in the early 90's or so the IRA fired some mortar rounds at Buckingham Palace or 10 Downing Street, and missed. I remember thinking they should have taken the Infantry Mortar Platoon Course taught by yours truly. Might not have hit the Queen in the tit, but I'll bet they would have done better than what they did. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I remember exactly NOTHING ... and I was (very) briefly a 60mm mortar instructor/range officer. IIRC in the early 90's or so the IRA fired some mortar rounds at Buckingham Palace or 10 Downing Street, and missed. I remember thinking they should have taken the Infantry Mortar Platoon Course taught by yours truly. Might not have hit the Queen in the tit, but I'll bet they would have done better than what they did. I am a huge slacker. I just looked it up (it was Downing Street) - and apparently one of the shells landed "yards" from what they were targeting (the office where John Major was meeting in), so that actually seems pretty impressive.  ETA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_mortar_attack |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 12:26:43 PM EDT
[#27]
My close friend's mortar team hit a enemy technical (pickup truck with a heavy machine gun mounted in the bed) on the hood of the truck with 60mm during a large engagement. Fucked them up good. Dude was a bad ass mortarman,
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Posted: 7/8/2020 12:26:58 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are they really loud and why so much packing around the fins? I was a reservist laundry and shower specialist so fuck if I know? Loud as shit. Not like Movies and TV . I have a high frequency hearing loss in my left ear due to an 81mm. The packing are charges. Pull them off to adjust the charge and how far it goes. 81mm HE went from nine charge bags to five? Donuts in the 80's. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 12:27:06 PM EDT
[#29]
 Attached FileI believe there’s a video of MSOT 8222 in a firefight in a compound in BMG where 60mm rounds were fired in hand-held mode. I know SSgt Pat Dolphin was in the video, who was KIA on another deployment in 2011. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 12:33:15 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of my classmates from IOBC was the OIC. His name was Brady. I remember this skinny former Ranger NCO who was a hoot but I can't remember his name. I went through in March-April 1982. I went to Ft Benning a few years ago. Eiler Hall, where most of the IMP classes were taught was no more. And anyone taking that course would remember Red Cloud Range. Site of former Eiler Hall    |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 12:44:35 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Brady was the FO/Mech Branch Chief. He as a Vietnam Vet and had a wife from there. He was a 1LT when I got there and later made Captain. The only guy from the Ranger Bn I remember was Sgt Foley. He wore those ugly Army issued black "birth control" glasses. I went to Ft Benning a few years ago. Eiler Hall, where most of the IMP classes were taught was no more. And anyone taking that course would remember Red Cloud Range. Site of former Eiler Hall https://i.imgur.com/8j7AGsv.jpg https://i.imgur.com/VxA1e47.jpg https://i.imgur.com/zCMMsmZ.jpg Yeah Brady was a clerk in Vietnam but was wearing a CIB. He said they just gave them to them when they got there. Yeah now I remember I didn't see him much after FO and Mech. We spent a heck of a lot of time in FDC but they weren't teaching the tI computer yet even though my unit was starting to use them. I had my one of my FDCs use the computer and they other a plotting board to check. It took me a while to trust the computer. I remember Foley now but that isn't who I was thinking of. I would love to go back to Benning and see how it changed. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 12:47:36 PM EDT
[#32]
High trajectory weapon still valuable for infantry support.
Good for mountainous terrain. City fighting. Desert fighting. Forest/jungle warfare. Why hasn't the Japanese knee mortar (actually it's a foot rest) used anymore. Get too hot to hold or sustained firing since there's no legs? 
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Posted: 7/8/2020 12:57:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: High trajectory weapon still valuable for infantry support. Good for mountainous terrain. City fighting. Desert fighting. Forest/jungle warfare. Why hasn't the Japanese knee mortar (actually it's a foot rest) used anymore. Get too hot to hold or sustained firing since there's no legs? https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1524/1342/products/on2942__3.jpg?v=1505574647 Now mortars can be used in Direct Lay mode, the gunner using the sight to engage targets directly visible to the gun crew. I think it was Charge 0 at about 1450mills elevation could put the 81mm HE round about 60-75meters out, if the MTR PLT were being directly engaged. Why jump on the M2HB when you can inflict a 25m casualty radius with the M29 or M252 81mm? |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 1:43:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: TOWs went out of favor years ago and were replaced by the Javeline, as I understand it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm not sure that I have heard of any battles from the GWOT where American mortarmen were involved. So does the US still use mortars, or is it all airstrikes, tanks and TOW missiles? TOWs went out of favor years ago and were replaced by the Javeline, as I understand it. This is not accurate. The Javelin is a great weapon for dismounts but not as capable as a TOW. The TOW has been updated as well with (TOW 2B Aero). wireless, extended range with fly over shoot down capabilities. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 1:51:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Javelin is the replacement for the M47 Dragon. The TOW is still used, whether on Bradleys, HMMWV's, or tripods. OH... alright! Good to know. TOW 2B, still? |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 1:54:22 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question has been answered. Time for some Scandinavian mortar porn. With blue helmets? |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 9:11:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: High trajectory weapon still valuable for infantry support. Good for mountainous terrain. City fighting. Desert fighting. Forest/jungle warfare. Why hasn't the Japanese knee mortar (actually it's a foot rest) used anymore. Get too hot to hold or sustained firing since there's no legs? https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1524/1342/products/on2942__3.jpg?v=1505574647 FYI- Gun Jesus has 2 really good tutorials on those. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 9:15:20 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mortars are scary effective. Lots of boom. It is. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 9:16:38 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are they really loud and why so much packing around the fins? I was a reservist laundry and shower specialist so fuck if I know? Quote HistoryQuoted: Are they really loud and why so much packing around the fins? I was a reservist laundry and shower specialist so fuck if I know? Go on |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 9:19:23 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Brady was the FO/Mech Branch Chief. He as a Vietnam Vet and had a wife from there. He was a 1LT when I got there and later made Captain. The only guy from the Ranger Bn I remember was Sgt Foley. He wore those ugly Army issued black "birth control" glasses. I went to Ft Benning a few years ago. Eiler Hall, where most of the IMP classes were taught was no more. And anyone taking that course would remember Red Cloud Range. Site of former Eiler Hall https://i.imgur.com/8j7AGsv.jpg https://i.imgur.com/VxA1e47.jpg https://i.imgur.com/zCMMsmZ.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: One of my classmates from IOBC was the OIC. His name was Brady. I remember this skinny former Ranger NCO who was a hoot but I can't remember his name. I went through in March-April 1982. I went to Ft Benning a few years ago. Eiler Hall, where most of the IMP classes were taught was no more. And anyone taking that course would remember Red Cloud Range. Site of former Eiler Hall https://i.imgur.com/8j7AGsv.jpg https://i.imgur.com/VxA1e47.jpg https://i.imgur.com/zCMMsmZ.jpg I could swear Red Cloud is at Fort Stewart. Maybe theres two? |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 9:32:14 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: I could swear Red Cloud is at Fort Stewart. Maybe theres two? There is... or maybe was?. "Red Cloud Range Area." IIRC just to the west of the impact area. Ft Stewart used to be home to 24th ID before it was disbanded after GW1 and Mitchell Red Cloud, MOH was 24th when he was KIA in Korea. I was an FO in 1/75 when I was AD and I spent untold days on them. Late 80's-mid 90's timeframe. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 9:50:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: High trajectory weapon still valuable for infantry support. Good for mountainous terrain. City fighting. Desert fighting. Forest/jungle warfare. Why hasn't the Japanese knee mortar (actually it's a foot rest) used anymore. Get too hot to hold or sustained firing since there's no legs? https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1524/1342/products/on2942__3.jpg?v=1505574647 Because there are far,far,far better options now. 
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Posted: 7/8/2020 10:01:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am a huge slacker. I just looked it up (it was Downing Street) - and apparently one of the shells landed "yards" from what they were targeting (the office where John Major was meeting in), so that actually seems pretty impressive. ETA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_mortar_attack Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I remember exactly NOTHING ... and I was (very) briefly a 60mm mortar instructor/range officer. IIRC in the early 90's or so the IRA fired some mortar rounds at Buckingham Palace or 10 Downing Street, and missed. I remember thinking they should have taken the Infantry Mortar Platoon Course taught by yours truly. Might not have hit the Queen in the tit, but I'll bet they would have done better than what they did. I am a huge slacker. I just looked it up (it was Downing Street) - and apparently one of the shells landed "yards" from what they were targeting (the office where John Major was meeting in), so that actually seems pretty impressive. ETA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_mortar_attack Probably worth pointing out here that they used a homemade mortar which would not have been as precise as a properly engineered and constructed military mortar. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 10:05:49 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: I'm not sure that I have heard of any battles from the GWOT where American mortarmen were involved. So does the US still use mortars, or is it all airstrikes, tanks and TOW missiles? Operation Anaconda at the beginning of the GWOT and I have also seen footage of troops using a small handheld one on the roof of a building in Afghanistan on Youtube. |
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Posted: 7/8/2020 10:24:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I could swear Red Cloud is at Fort Stewart. Maybe theres two? 3, Camp Red Cloud in Korea. 2ID HQ now, I think. Red Cloud Range on Stewart is where PLDC is, IIRC. I went almost 30 years ago. |
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Posted: 7/9/2020 9:59:22 AM EDT
[#46]
Not really relevant, but I went to a black powder artillerist competition when I was young. It was a hoot. The mortar competition was entertaining. For using hand-measured charges and 200 year old technology, they were surprisingly accurate. They’d put some rope rings on the ground way the fuck over there in a field... and (with a couple of shots to get on target) they usually hit them. The initial shots were not all that far off, usually.
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Posted: 7/9/2020 3:52:58 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 7/9/2020 10:59:34 PM EDT
[#48]
FWIW- I watched "Ad Astra" for the 2d time this evening, and at the end of the moon chase scene the bad guys are dealt with by some kind of mortar/high-angle IDF system. I tried to find the actual clip but the usual sources don't seem to include it. You Googlemasters might have better luck.
But at any rate- "Ad Astra" predicts Moon mortars. |
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