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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:34:17 PM EDT
[#1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_nervous_system_disease TL;DR, addiction is a brain disorder, brain disorders are a disease. Addiction is a disease. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:34:30 PM EDT
[#2]
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ITT we watch people who've never been prescribed high doses of pain meds for long periods of time talk out of their asses to those that have. There may be personality issues related to addiction, but the known science doesn't refer to known personality disorders being "disease" conditions. They are disorders. Mislabeling this is a function of capitalism more than science, which itself can be subject to capitalistic interest. Consider: https://www.google.com/amp/nypost.com/2015/07/12/addiction-is-not-a-disease-and-were-treating-drug-and-alcohol-addicts-wrong/amp/ Yeah, NYP, but it's actually a good read on the subject. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:34:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Drug addiction is not a disease. Being fat is not a disease. Alcoholism is not a disease.
Lifestyle choices are not diseases. If you make dumb choices and end up with health problems, well.....how the fuck is that my problem? Unfortunately, druggies, fatties, and alcies think their problems ought to be cleaned up by others. Going into treatment is a responsibility and not worthy of a fucking trophy. I have some chronic health conditions that I wish I did not have. But I am not some special snowflake deserving of an award for doing the right thing and getting treatment. I'm not anyone's hero. Here's a great idea or two. 1. Pay your own fucking bills. 2. Clean up your own fucking messes. 3. Take responsibility for your choices. We are supposed to do the right things in life. We are not deserving of worship when we do the minimum we are obligated to do. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:35:44 PM EDT
[#4]
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Agree +1000%! I've been saying this for years, its NOT a G*D***d disease! Diseases are caused by microbes and viruses. At most its a CONDITION! The ONLY reason the left embraces the phony notion of "disease" is because its easier to avoid personal responsibility if the act like they "caught" something! After all, they can't be blamed, its a "disease", right?  
Pisses me right the fuck off! |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:37:22 PM EDT
[#5]
I think the resistance to defining it as a disease is the repercussions of defining it so.
If it's a disease, then you can become disabled by it and be eligible for SSDI. If it's a disease, then states will be mandated, through legal precedent, to cover addiction treatment, with the Medical Industrial Complex deciding what that treatment will be--expensive and therefore profitable. If it's a disease, then how can you punish these people through incarceration. This already happens with drug diversion courts. Fine, it's a disease. Now enjoy paying for it. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:37:45 PM EDT
[#6]
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If something alters the brain to the point that someone can't just say "I quit" and move on, I would lean more to the disease diagnoses. But, it's not like they developed cancer -- they're responsible for the path they started down (assuming they didn't become addicted after an injury or the like). If someone smokes for years and gets lung cancer, is that cancer still a disease? Since they directly caused it by smoking, and would likely not have developed cancer otherwise. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:38:22 PM EDT
[#7]
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How about the normally straight and narrow people who get hooked on pain meds after their doctor prescribes them like candy? Are they scum for being "weak" Misfortune is not a disease in its own right. Malaria is a disease. Cancer is a disease. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:40:41 PM EDT
[#8]
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1955 called, they want their science back. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:44:50 PM EDT
[#9]
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Kneejerk reactions and poor reading comprehension are more common and just as harmful to society. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Good Lord, this kind of thinking and excuse making is what's fucked this country up!!! One sentence alone s very misleading when there where several other quotes it was alluding to. Nice try though.....(You work for CNN?) |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:48:41 PM EDT
[#10]
Here is a philosophical question, is mesothelioma brought on by asbestos exposure a disease?
Would today knowingly (as a choice) exposing yourself to the asbestos make the resulting mesothelioma not a disease? I'm not smart enough to know the answer to the addiction question, I can see the medical aspects that would make some call it a disease, and I can see how it can be a cop out to not taking responsibility for your choices that lead to that state. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:49:49 PM EDT
[#11]
I've gambled in the past and it's an adrenaline rush. Certain people can get addicted. But calling it a disease is a stretch.
It's no different then golf. That's also an adrenaline rush to some people. If they then play too much golf, is that also a disease? Drugs and alcohol might be a different scenario. Your actually putting chemicals into your body that affects the brain. It may trigger me different than it does someone else. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:52:35 PM EDT
[#12]
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A huge % of people prescribed painkillers by legit dr's become addicted. Are they dope fiends? Link |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 9:59:19 PM EDT
[#13]
So if drug addiction is not a disease like a lot of you say, what is the actual professional definition, not just what you feel the characteristics are (which are the characteristics for disease for most people's posts)?
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:01:18 PM EDT
[#14]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_nervous_system_disease TL;DR, addiction is a brain disorder, brain disorders are a disease. Addiction is a disease. A perfect example here is Trump. His older brother died from chronic alcohol abuse, & from that experience, he considered that he could be prone to that himself, so he decided to abstain from alcohol. If addiction was a "disease", then perhaps he might be doomed. But in reality, he simply choose to not doom himself. That's a choice. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:02:40 PM EDT
[#15]
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So if drug addiction is not a disease like a lot of you say, what is the actual professional definition, not just what you feel the characteristics are (which are the characteristics for disease for most people's posts)? They'll just ignore what words mean and make up their own definitions that support their preconception. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:05:05 PM EDT
[#16]
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The fact that certain neuropathways are set up to accentuate the effect of bad habits is a function if choice, not an environmental entity that precludes any other condition. Addiction is not a foreign conclusion in the mind of a normal person. Many of us can become addicts,m. Granted, resistance varies, & there may be genetically associated personality &/or genotypic characteristics that compound the tendency, but it that doesn't make addiction inevitable. A perfect example here is Trump. His older brother died from chronic alcohol abuse, & from that experience, he considered that he could be prone to that himself, so he decided to abstain from alcohol. If addiction was a "disease", then perhaps he might be doomed. But in reality, he simply choose to not doom himself. That's a choice. Can diseases not be caused by choices made previously, knowingly or unknowingly? |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:05:49 PM EDT
[#17]
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In before the drug addicts. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:07:38 PM EDT
[#18]
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So if drug addiction is not a disease like a lot of you say, what is the actual professional definition, not just what you feel the characteristics are (which are the characteristics for disease for most people's posts)? As always, follow the money. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:11:08 PM EDT
[#19]
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The "professional definition" has been at play since at least the 50's when AA & NA latched onto the idea of calling it a disease, & medicine embraces the newspeak because it's good for business. Truth does not hinge on the pluralism of perception. As always, follow the money. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So if drug addiction is not a disease like a lot of you say, what is the actual professional definition, not just what you feel the characteristics are (which are the characteristics for disease for most people's posts)? As always, follow the money. If we did away with socialized medicine, so that there would be no obligation to pay for the treatment of addicts, would you be willing to concede that addiction is a disease caused by choices the addict made previously? |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:11:12 PM EDT
[#20]
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This is the part I hate. People that "poor poor me, I have a disease" made me want to puke when I went to rehab. Some of those people in group and in the NA rooms are broken, and attention whores...but that's a whole 'nother thread. I placed blame on myself and only myself when I was addicted to opiates. It took ME to change that. I didn't use the 'I have a disease' card when I was having a difficult time. People need to man up and admit their failures and accept responsibility. Giving them another excuse to show it's not their fault is ridiculous. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I would argue that an addictive personality is genetic like most diseases. Be it alcohol, cigarettes, sex, porn, gambling, tattoos, etc... There are studies that show an alcoholic usually has alcoholic parents an example. That being said....the whole "I cant help it, I have a disease" argument is BS. I placed blame on myself and only myself when I was addicted to opiates. It took ME to change that. I didn't use the 'I have a disease' card when I was having a difficult time. People need to man up and admit their failures and accept responsibility. Giving them another excuse to show it's not their fault is ridiculous. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:13:00 PM EDT
[#21]
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FWIW, I completely agree with you on the point of personal responsibility. That said, to say addiction isn't a disease requires a person to ignore science and the definitions that English speakers have universally agreed on. Accepting the reality that addiction is a disease doesn't mean that you have to accept it as an excuse. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I would argue that an addictive personality is genetic like most diseases. Be it alcohol, cigarettes, sex, porn, gambling, tattoos, etc... There are studies that show an alcoholic usually has alcoholic parents an example. That being said....the whole "I cant help it, I have a disease" argument is BS. I placed blame on myself and only myself when I was addicted to opiates. It took ME to change that. I didn't use the 'I have a disease' card when I was having a difficult time. People need to man up and admit their failures and accept responsibility. Giving them another excuse to show it's not their fault is ridiculous. Accepting the reality that addiction is a disease doesn't mean that you have to accept it as an excuse. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:14:52 PM EDT
[#22]
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The Socratic method doesn't work very well with idiots. They'll just ignore what words mean and make up their own definitions that support their preconception. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So if drug addiction is not a disease like a lot of you say, what is the actual professional definition, not just what you feel the characteristics are (which are the characteristics for disease for most people's posts)? They'll just ignore what words mean and make up their own definitions that support their preconception. 
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:16:02 PM EDT
[#23]
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Do people who are addicted to computer games or any non-drug activity or lifestyle all have a disease? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I would argue that an addictive personality is genetic like most diseases. Be it alcohol, cigarettes, sex, porn, gambling, tattoos, etc... There are studies that show an alcoholic usually has alcoholic parents an example. That being said....the whole "I cant help it, I have a disease" argument is BS. I placed blame on myself and only myself when I was addicted to opiates. It took ME to change that. I didn't use the 'I have a disease' card when I was having a difficult time. People need to man up and admit their failures and accept responsibility. Giving them another excuse to show it's not their fault is ridiculous. Accepting the reality that addiction is a disease doesn't mean that you have to accept it as an excuse. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:19:45 PM EDT
[#24]
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A perfect example here is Trump. His older brother died from chronic alcohol abuse, & from that experience, he considered that he could be prone to that himself, so he decided to abstain from alcohol. If addiction was a "disease", then perhaps he might be doomed. But in reality, he simply choose to not doom himself. That's a choice. 
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:21:34 PM EDT
[#25]
Whatever happened to username Diesel? Anyone remember him?
He was always "in on one" with this type of topic. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:22:44 PM EDT
[#26]
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Can you explain to me why the two things, making choices and getting diseases, are mutually exclusive? Can diseases not be caused by choices made previously, knowingly or unknowingly? Things happen, both in & outside of our control. There is cause & effect in how we each decide to deal with personal circumstances. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:24:14 PM EDT
[#27]
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So if people with Celiacs disease don't eat gluten, then they don't have Celiacs disease. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A perfect example here is Trump. His older brother died from chronic alcohol abuse, & from that experience, he considered that he could be prone to that himself, so he decided to abstain from alcohol. If addiction was a "disease", then perhaps he might be doomed. But in reality, he simply choose to not doom himself. That's a choice. If they do eat gluten and get sick though, it's because they're weak willed, not because it's a disease.
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:29:32 PM EDT
[#28]
I was addicted to XBOX for like 3 months once. Should I file a claim with AFLAC?
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:30:47 PM EDT
[#29]
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A huge % of people prescribed painkillers by legit dr's become addicted. Are they dope fiends? |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:31:12 PM EDT
[#30]
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I've been clean and sober for 23 years. Here is my 2 cents. I came from a good family and had no childhood issues I could blame my addiction on. I made good grades participated succefully in all forms of sports I tried and had no issues with my heterosexuality. I went to college and graduated. But I like booze and dope and the problem ran in my family. I could function until one day I couldn't. I tried to stop. Willpower did not work. The physical side of the addiction sucks, but it does end. The mental side NEVER goes away. Talk all the shit you want about how strong you are. If you got it, it will kick your ass. One day the pain associated with doing 'it' became greater than the pain of not doing 'it'. I'd had enough and decided to get help. I was ready to listen to others who had successfully learned to deal with it and started the journey to dealing with the mental side of addiction. I was lucky that the right people were around me at the right time. By all rights I should be dead. The good lord wanted me around for something and since the day I stopped I've tried to be the best I could be at that time. Today I'm very successful and it seems like it's a lifetime ago. I will tell you the addiction has never left me. I've learned to deal with it and not let it manifest itself in other potentially damaging actions. So, to the OP. It's not as easy as "look you weak fuck just stop". If it were, I would have. Trust me. Is it a disease? It's a mental disease with a physical addiction. It's not curable. It is manageable for certain persons who can hit bottom and get honest with themselves. Left untreated the person who has it will lose everything, end up in prison and or dead. :) ETA: My chemical use was not solely limited to booze. But when I quit drinking I quit it all. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:32:29 PM EDT
[#31]
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Can a drug possibly create a condition that can, in itself, be considered a disease? Sure. Drug induced psychosis is such an example. But I've also worked with people who became (literally) clinically psychotic due to overstress. But in both situations, there was the element of choice involved in generating the conditions that caused the meltdown. Things happen, both in & outside of our control. There is cause & effect in how we each decide to deal with personal circumstances. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Can you explain to me why the two things, making choices and getting diseases, are mutually exclusive? Can diseases not be caused by choices made previously, knowingly or unknowingly? Things happen, both in & outside of our control. There is cause & effect in how we each decide to deal with personal circumstances. Ergo, just because someone chose to use drugs, doesn't automatically preclude the resulting addiction from being considered a disease. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:32:51 PM EDT
[#32]
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Had like 3 guys I know on Facebook come out with the whole "In recovery! Fighting this disease!" Shit in the past year or so. No. You're a fucking dope fiend. No one forced you to do drugs. It was a choice. God damn. One of these guys was a VERY successful business owner who ran a custom car shop in MD. he fell off the face of the earth for a while then came back all "YAY RECOVERY!". I'm happy he's making a positive change in his life, but stop with the "it's a disease" bullshit. Here's a good video on the subject. You can most def get a disease from drug addiction, kinda counts....
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:34:15 PM EDT
[#33]
I don't understand where people are getting the idea that diseases have to be completely accidental or beyond the influence of the person who contracted it.
Can someone show me how that works? |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:36:34 PM EDT
[#34]
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Do you believe there's such a thing as mental illness? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I would argue that an addictive personality is genetic like most diseases. Be it alcohol, cigarettes, sex, porn, gambling, tattoos, etc... There are studies that show an alcoholic usually has alcoholic parents an example. That being said....the whole "I cant help it, I have a disease" argument is BS. I placed blame on myself and only myself when I was addicted to opiates. It took ME to change that. I didn't use the 'I have a disease' card when I was having a difficult time. People need to man up and admit their failures and accept responsibility. Giving them another excuse to show it's not their fault is ridiculous. Accepting the reality that addiction is a disease doesn't mean that you have to accept it as an excuse. But I don't have a disease. I also recognized early on thay have a very addictive personality and in part, that is a reason I've have never partaken of drugs and moderate my alcohol consumption. That predisposition or persanality trait is not a disease. That personality trait would not have made me become an addict anymore than the persoanlity trait of being lazy makes someone fat. Choices make someone an addict. With that said, I have known more than a few addicts, and have sympathy for what they go through and put their families through but hitting that pipe, poping the pills, or pushing that plunger dies not constitute a disease. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:37:28 PM EDT
[#35]
Addiction can be a physical dependency or a mental one. Oftentimes both. It is actually an behavior induced condition of the human body. Classifying it as a disease not only, like posters above have said, allow for medical insurance to cover treatment and rehab, but also allows funding dollars go to the research of battling the condition.
I'm not saying it is morally or ethically right, just the reasoning of it's classification. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:37:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Oh boy! Another sanctimonious alcoholic thread.
I'll drink to that! 
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:37:46 PM EDT
[#37]
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Of course, I have a few myself. But I don't have a disease. I also recognized early on thay have a very addictive personality and in part, that is a reason I've have never partaken of drugs and moderate my alcohol consumption. That predisposition or persanality trait is not a disease. That personality trait would not have made me become an addict anymore than the persoanlity trait of being lazy makes someone fat. Choices make someone an addict. With that said, I have known more than a few, and have sympathy for what they go through and put their families through but hitting that pipe, poping the pills, or pushing that plunger dies not constitute a disease. I'm not sure how to clear that hurdle. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:38:25 PM EDT
[#38]
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Semantics is my favorite type of argument
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:43:05 PM EDT
[#39]
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Let me ask you this. If we did away with socialized medicine, so that there would be no obligation to pay for the treatment of addicts, would you be willing to concede that addiction is a disease caused by choices the addict made previously? In the case of drug addiction, I've just seen enough people who simply got sick of being addicts & rework their mindset & go clean, to blow out the whole concept of it being a disease. I don't see the same approach working for people who have cancer, for example. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:46:58 PM EDT
[#40]
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Which explains your cut and paste rather that posting the quotes in their entirety. One sentence alone s very misleading when there where several other quotes it was alluding to. Nice try though.....(You work for CNN?) People talking past each other can lead to a lot of unnecessary grief, which I've seen happen in a lot of heated threads (and which I'm guilty of as well). |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:48:06 PM EDT
[#41]
OP hangs around druggies? Does his parents know?
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:49:16 PM EDT
[#42]
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So if people with Celiacs disease don't eat gluten, then they don't have Celiacs disease. I didn't say all diseases have external origins. Again, people beat their addictions by coming to terms with themselves & "reprogramming", if you will, their habits & mindset. That's not happening with Celiac's. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:50:03 PM EDT
[#43]
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My assertion is not predicated on social constructs. If drug abuse creates an independent condition, that's just a cause-&-effect relationship. The thing is, the term is becoming a clever catch all for diffusing responsibility. I already gave the example of drug-induced psychosis. The condition is a mental disorder in its own right. But it takes a choice to cause it. In the case of drug addiction, I've just seen enough people who simply got sick of being addicts & rework their mindset & go clean, to blow out the whole concept of it being a disease. I don't see the same approach working for people who have cancer, for example. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Let me ask you this. If we did away with socialized medicine, so that there would be no obligation to pay for the treatment of addicts, would you be willing to concede that addiction is a disease caused by choices the addict made previously? In the case of drug addiction, I've just seen enough people who simply got sick of being addicts & rework their mindset & go clean, to blow out the whole concept of it being a disease. I don't see the same approach working for people who have cancer, for example. How does that prove addiction can't be a disease, because I'm not seeing how you're getting to your conclusion based on that information? Also, you say "my assertion is not predicated on social constructs", then you say that part of your rationale is that you don't want people diffusing responsibility, presumably because the implication of the diffusion of responsibility is that others will have to pay for it. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:50:49 PM EDT
[#44]
lol what drugs are you on OP?
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:51:17 PM EDT
[#45]
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Of course, I have a few myself. But I don't have a disease. I also recognized early on thay have a very addictive personality and in part, that is a reason I've have never partaken of drugs and moderate my alcohol consumption. That predisposition or persanality trait is not a disease. That personality trait would not have made me become an addict anymore than the persoanlity trait of being lazy makes someone fat. Choices make someone an addict. With that said, I have known more than a few addicts, and have sympathy for what they go through and put their families through but hitting that pipe, poping the pills, or pushing that plunger dies not constitute a disease. Could we say "heart disease runs in your family"? |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:52:46 PM EDT
[#46]
"Dependency" isn't a disease, it's "dependency". It is a huge strain on families and I do believe research & treatment are worthwhile endeavors.
Worthwhile because it's my wife, your uncle, a cousin, a sister, grandmother... |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:53:10 PM EDT
[#47]
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Celiac's is an autoimmune disease/disorder, like Lupus & rheumatoid arthritis. I didn't say all diseases have external origins. Again, people beat their addictions by coming to terms with themselves & "reprogramming", if you will, their habits & mindset. That's not happening with Celiac's. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So if people with Celiacs disease don't eat gluten, then they don't have Celiacs disease. I didn't say all diseases have external origins. Again, people beat their addictions by coming to terms with themselves & "reprogramming", if you will, their habits & mindset. That's not happening with Celiac's. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:54:15 PM EDT
[#48]
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People who go into rehab and are recovering only to fall off the wagon over and over are so brave. So very brave. 
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:55:37 PM EDT
[#49]
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I've been Rx'ed pain meds, incl narcs, for post surg recovery. I've taken them 1-2 days, then done. Never the urge to go back for more or "chase the dragon". They kept the discomfort at a tolerable level, & then I was done. Move on. There may be personality issues related to addiction, but the known science doesn't refer to known personality disorders being "disease" conditions. They are disorders. Mislabeling this is a function of capitalism more than science, which itself can be subject to capitalistic interest. Consider: https://www.google.com/amp/nypost.com/2015/07/12/addiction-is-not-a-disease-and-were-treating-drug-and-alcohol-addicts-wrong/amp/ Yeah, NYP, but it's actually a good read on the subject. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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ITT we watch people who've never been prescribed high doses of pain meds for long periods of time talk out of their asses to those that have. There may be personality issues related to addiction, but the known science doesn't refer to known personality disorders being "disease" conditions. They are disorders. Mislabeling this is a function of capitalism more than science, which itself can be subject to capitalistic interest. Consider: https://www.google.com/amp/nypost.com/2015/07/12/addiction-is-not-a-disease-and-were-treating-drug-and-alcohol-addicts-wrong/amp/ Yeah, NYP, but it's actually a good read on the subject. I suffered and rode out the withdrawals but I can see how easy it would be to lose that control. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 10:57:16 PM EDT
[#50]
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OK, so diseases can be caused by choices. Ergo, just because someone chose to use drugs, doesn't automatically preclude the resulting addiction from being considered a disease. |
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