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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:36:14 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: We have a lot of shooting sports and competitions now days. Most people are using semi auto pistols and rifles with big mags. So how was it way back when? No competitions or no big mags or what? I know anything is possible in the future but a lot of big names in the gun industry make an AR now lots of money to be lost if another ban happens. Who didn't have "big mags"? |
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:37:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who didn't have "big mags"? Ok so what did you have |
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:37:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Those Damn Scherer Mags
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:39:20 PM EDT
[#4]
A lot of courses of fire designed around 10 Rd mags
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:39:25 PM EDT
[#5]
But airsoft mags hold hundreds of bbs...
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:41:16 PM EDT
[#6]
The democrat party banned the manufacture (for non-gov/LEO use) of XYZ items made after 9-13-1994, not the ownership, use, or sale/trade of existing items.
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:41:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Typically, the rules were adjusted to allow ban compliant rifles and the use of 10 round magazines without it being a handicap to scoring.
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:43:20 PM EDT
[#8]
I used the Canadian mags with the green follower, be damned if I remember the name brand, but they worked 100%
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:43:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: I know anything is possible in the future but a lot of big names in the gun industry make an AR now lots of money to be lost if another ban happens. The democrat party doesn't give a flying fuck about the gun industry dollars, taxes, or jerbs. As seen over the past few months, they don't really give a fuck about any non-government industry. |
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:44:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok so what did you have Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Who didn't have "big mags"? Ok so what did you have Anything we wanted. There was even this...ummm....rumor... that certain companies overseas were selling and shipping "big mags". I bought a USP45 with ten round mags. A few weeks later I had standard caps with no law enforcement markings straight from Germany. |
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:44:46 PM EDT
[#11]
It was a suck fest. My go to’s were a browning Hi Power, Colt Commander, and a modified Remington 870. I obtained several Browning mags at a gun show, the pre ban mags got harder and harder to come by.
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:44:50 PM EDT
[#12]
I don’t know the answer but I assume combat style
Shooting sports have exploded in popularity compared to the 90s. |
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:45:56 PM EDT
[#13]
For USPSA, things ran as normal. We were not allowed to buy new "hi-cap" magazines but we could buy the parts. For the custom race guns you would buy a magazine tube and basepad from one company and then buy a srping and follower kit from another. For "stock" pistols, you had to find pre-ban mags if you wanted "hi-cap".
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:46:47 PM EDT
[#14]
New shooters were out of luck, or spending 100-150 for standard capacity mags vs ban mags for handguns. The 1911 was incredibly revived with new makers showing up frequently with more and more custom options being standard. Also larger capacity revolvers starting showing up and holding their own. You could still get ar rifles, just incredibly aesthetically displeasing.
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:47:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Chinese and East German 30 round AK mags were $5 each. East German AK74 5.45 30 round bakelite mags were <$10 for 4 new mags in a pouch. Then there were Glock mags for $100 each.
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:49:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who didn't have "big mags"? Exactly. We still got them from various sources. They weren't illegal in most areas, you just had to run older mags. The newer ones were marked with a manufacture date, and also generally marked for Police or Military Use Only. Some bad little boys were able to get their hands on these, but kept them under wraps because they were subject to confiscation and hefty penalties to get caught with them. I still remember the absolutely delicious feeling of getting my hands on the restricted mags. There was nothing quite like reading the markings on those mags hanging out of a mag well. For handguns, if a pistol was available in 40S&W & 9mm, we'd buy the 9mm versions, then use 40 S&W 10 round mags to take us up to 12 rounds of 9mm. Some guys would switch the 9mm springs & followers over to .40 tubes, others just used .40 cal. mags as purchased. Yup, we wuz bad.... fuck the law. |
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:50:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The democrat party doesn't give a flying fuck about the gun industry dollars, taxes, or jerbs. As seen over the past few months, they don't really give a fuck about any non-government industry. Understood that's what I was getting at a big industry could be lost I guess what I am asking is did the abundance of options available to gun people today really start after 04. I bought my first gun on my own in 2000 (turned 21) it was a ruger p93 with 10rd mags at the time I didn't know enough to want more than that |
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:52:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I used the Canadian mags with the green follower, be damned if I remember the name brand, but they worked 100% Thermold. I had a half dozen or better. I had totally forgotten about them. |
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:54:34 PM EDT
[#19]
I bought a new "post ban" compliant Bushmaster in 1995 or so. It did not have a threaded barrel or a bayonet lug. High cap AR mags were available, many were surplus military. Glock would trade a new Glock with LEO mags even for the old Glock with the pre-ban magazines, which they would then sell at a profit. Used Glocks came with a ten rounder. Manufacturers like Glock came out with the G26, G27, and G30, all built to fit the smaller ten round mags. Sub compacts were a custom only thing before that.
ETA. I don't think anyone was ever prosecuted for disobeying the 1994 AWB. |
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Posted: 7/17/2020 10:57:30 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Understood that's what I was getting at a big industry could be lost I guess what I am asking is did the abundance of options available to gun people today really start after 04. I bought my first gun on my own in 2000 (turned 21) it was a ruger p93 with 10rd mags at the time I didn't know enough to want more than that Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The democrat party doesn't give a flying fuck about the gun industry dollars, taxes, or jerbs. As seen over the past few months, they don't really give a fuck about any non-government industry. Understood that's what I was getting at a big industry could be lost I guess what I am asking is did the abundance of options available to gun people today really start after 04. I bought my first gun on my own in 2000 (turned 21) it was a ruger p93 with 10rd mags at the time I didn't know enough to want more than that What helped you to understand you needed more? |
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Posted: 7/17/2020 11:00:51 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The democrat party banned the manufacture (for non-gov/LEO use) of XYZ items made after 9-13-1994, not the ownership, use, or sale/trade of existing items. That is also why many of us from that time period keep a good supply of mags, ammo and AR parts. Quite a few also took up reloading. 
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Posted: 7/17/2020 11:01:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What helped you to understand you needed more? You guys for one We get older learn more about the world I don't know 15 got to better than 10 
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Posted: 7/17/2020 11:02:42 PM EDT
[#23]
Orlite. Replacement pistol mag bodies. Stupid shit like $100 preban mags.
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Posted: 7/17/2020 11:03:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Big mags were available. They were just really expensive. I remember paying $135 for a Glock 20 10 mm 15 round mag. Used no less.
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Posted: 7/17/2020 11:04:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: No competitions or no big mags or what? There were pre-ban mags o'plenty. They were just expensive. Every gun show had tables stacked high in 30-round steel mags.... but they were $50 or more, IIRC. |
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Posted: 7/17/2020 11:05:00 PM EDT
[#26]
Back in the early 2000s I was the only guy at the range with an AR and people would flock over and ask about it.
Got pre-94 30 rounders at gunshows. Now everyone at the range has some sort of EBR. |
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Posted: 7/17/2020 11:13:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Big stick magazines were available. I may or may not have a friend that bought 6 hi-cap tubes, 6 followers, 6 springs, 6 baseplates and 6 baseplate inserts for his Infinity racegun from Brownells during the ban. To California, no less. They were shipped in one package, printed on one invoice and charged in a single transaction.
We were honestly surprised the order went through and not cancelled. We also thought, at the very least the order would have been broken up into two or more orders. |
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Posted: 7/17/2020 11:16:24 PM EDT
[#28]
Just thinking about the dark days of the 90's just makes me shudder. It made me a serious and committed ammo and magazine whore. Never again do I get boned like that...
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Posted: 7/17/2020 11:16:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok so what did you have Pre ban 30rd mags, or LEO mags since the law wasn't actively enforced in many places. Some people just wrapped their mags in duct tape to cover the LEO markings. |
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Posted: 7/17/2020 11:18:31 PM EDT
[#30]
Limit loading of mags to 10rounds so it didn’t become a $ advantage to buy $130 Preban mags.
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Posted: 7/17/2020 11:18:40 PM EDT
[#31]
I had several 20 round mags before the ban. After the ban you had to buy them modified with a 10 round spacer. I unmodified some by drilling out the pop rivet on the baseplate, remove the spacer, and reassemble. Presto, you had a 20 round mag that worked perfectly. Thanks Colt.
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Posted: 7/17/2020 11:28:33 PM EDT
[#32]
From what I recall there was never a great shortage of pre-ban mags, at least not around here. Before the 2004 sunset, I was picking up pre-ban Glock mags for $25-$40, same with AR15 30 rounders. Not going to get into how I acquired standard cap STI mags, but it was never an issue obtaining them.
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Posted: 7/17/2020 11:43:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: combat style Shooting sports have exploded in popularity compared to the 90s. This. What we can really thank the AW ban for is the explosion of small carry pistols. With a limit of 10, might as well make the gun smaller to match. |
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Posted: 7/17/2020 11:53:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Big mags were available. They were just really expensive. I remember paying $135 for a Glock 20 10 mm 15 round mag. Used no less. You just paid your money and babied your mags When I shot IPSC heavily in the 90s I had 5 mags with for my open 24C and G22 limited guns |
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Posted: 7/18/2020 12:05:19 AM EDT
[#35]
In 1998 the ATF was asked by a concerned Senator (Feinstein) to reexamine the sporting purposes clause. Part of the reason for that was manufactures and citizens saying hey, why can't we get these AKs, etc. into the country for competitions like three gun?
Plus, people were finding ways around the 89 import ban (many here can explain it better than me) and the 94 AW ban at least in terms of creatively modifying firearms as we still see today like in CA. Start on page 30 of the document, page 28 after the TOC. LCMM stands for "large capacity military magazine rifles." The information collected on the actual use of the LCMM rifles for organized competitive target shooting suggests that, with certain exceptions, the LCMM rifles usually may be used and sometimes are used for organized competitive target shooting; however, their suitability for this activity is limited. In fact, there are some restrictions and prohibitions on their use. The use of the rifles in competitive target shooting appears more widespread than for hunting and their use for practical shooting was the most significant. Although we are not convinced that practical shooting does in fact constitute a sporting purpose under section 925(d), we note that there was no information demonstrating that rifles with the ability to accept detachable large capacity military magazines were necessary for use in practical shooting. Once again, the presence of this military feature on LCMM rifles suggests that they are not generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes. Different time but nonetheless in the late 1990s with Clinton in the WH and Feinstein pushing the ATF found what they were looking for. |
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Posted: 7/18/2020 12:26:16 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .. fuck the law.  Trevor Moore: Drunk Texts to Myself - "Founding Fathers" - Uncensored |
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Posted: 7/18/2020 12:31:48 AM EDT
[#37]
If the feds never touched gun control again after 86, it’s likely that virtually no AR or AK makers, save a few, would exist. No innovations... still very niche and exotic. Handguns would be popular, but CCW would be rare. And the Dems would carry far more elections too.
Ironically, by making things illegal, constantly attacking guns, threats of bans, and making it a huge political issue... gun sales have surged and cost the dems enough votes to swing a shitload of elections. |
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Posted: 7/18/2020 12:52:39 AM EDT
[#38]
I still have a bunch of 10 round .40 Glock mags floating around. I just wasn't willing to pay that much for 2 more rounds.
I had all the other mags I needed by then. |
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Posted: 7/18/2020 12:58:01 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the feds never touched gun control again after 86, it’s likely that virtually no AR or AK makers, save a few, would exist. No innovations... still very niche and exotic. Handguns would be popular, but CCW would be rare. And the Dems would carry far more elections too. Ironically, by making things illegal, constantly attacking guns, threats of bans, and making it a huge political issue... gun sales have surged and cost the dems enough votes to swing a shitload of elections. I am still waiting to see the results actually appear....  I don't believe Trump beat Hillary due to gun laws/sales. She lost because she is a retard and doesn't know about things such as classified information. She pretty much was show boating and could not be stopped on anything she was accused of. In Obummers 8 years is when the previous panics actually happened. I don't remember much of the Bush years besides 911 since Uncle Sam had my pretty busy at the time. This year will be eye opening, probably for both sides of the fence in different areas. |
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Posted: 7/18/2020 12:58:57 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was a suck fest. Super sucky was back when GD hall monitors would turn you in for posting a picture of a possibly non compliant 94 ban gun.
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Posted: 7/18/2020 1:01:34 AM EDT
[#41]
I had some 20 and 30 round surplus mags.
But getting more was an expensive proposition. |
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Posted: 7/18/2020 1:02:42 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Super sucky was back when GD hall monitors would turn you in for posting a picture of a possibly non compliant 94 ban gun. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It was a suck fest. Super sucky was back when GD hall monitors would turn you in for posting a picture of a possibly non compliant 94 ban gun. The same cuck accounts now whine about NFA violations. |
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Posted: 7/18/2020 1:04:14 AM EDT
[#43]
So you want us to tell you how it was "back in the olden times"?
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Posted: 7/18/2020 1:16:12 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep You just paid your money and babied your mags When I shot IPSC heavily in the 90s I had 5 mags with for my open 24C and G22 limited guns Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Big mags were available. They were just really expensive. I remember paying $135 for a Glock 20 10 mm 15 round mag. Used no less. You just paid your money and babied your mags When I shot IPSC heavily in the 90s I had 5 mags with for my open 24C and G22 limited guns I still cringe occasionally at the thought of dropping mags on concrete. Gives me flashbacks lol. |
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Posted: 7/18/2020 1:17:57 AM EDT
[#45]
IDPA rules were/are retarded. 10 round limit.
You have a G17, only 10 rounds allowed. |
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Posted: 7/18/2020 1:22:29 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Super sucky was back when GD hall monitors would turn you in for posting a picture of a possibly non compliant 94 ban gun. Snitches deserve a permaban. |
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Posted: 7/18/2020 1:26:38 AM EDT
[#47]
IDPA was born then, and specified 10 round mags because of it.
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Posted: 7/18/2020 1:32:55 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IDPA rules were/are retarded. 10 round limit. You have a G17, only 10 rounds allowed. When I hold shooting competitions I have a 5 round limit with one reload required per stage, so revolvers aren't handicapped. Saves on ammo, and makes reloading ability more important. |
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Posted: 7/18/2020 1:53:29 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is also why many of us from that time period keep a good supply of mags, ammo and AR parts. Quite a few also took up reloading. This. There is also the aspect of every fucking gun dealer post Brady bill swiping a mag or two out of the pistol case when new shipments arrived only to end up for sale in the store. |
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Posted: 7/18/2020 2:34:30 AM EDT
[#50]
In the 1980s and early 1990s,
The number of people owing an AR, AK, HK or clone, etc. was a fraction of what it is now. The number of people competing was a fraction of what it is now. The number of people legally able to CC was a fraction of what it is now. Having a dozen magazines for a SA pistol or rifle was unusual. Having thousands of rounds was unusual. A military guy having SOT, SFAUC, let alone SFARTEC or OTC level training was the exception, not the rule. The number of shooters in the country having even a high quality weekend pistol and weekend carbine level of training was a fraction of what it is now. The 1994 ban spike interest and greatly increased ownership in the guns and magazine hoarding. Various movements greatly increased legal CC availability. Competition interest and numbers seemed to take off sometime during GWOT. Same for training interest and availability. Same for training interest and availability. The increased training, increased completion, and various incidents greatly increased and normalized ammo hoarding. In 1990, having an AR, a dozen or more mags, and having a few thousand rounds of ammo was unusual and uncommon. CC and similar pistol outfitting was unusual and uncommon. Competing, having kit, and having training was uncommon. The concept of the 2A for keeping the government, LE, and military in check vs for hunting and basic home defense had faded into the background. Almost nobody cared about full JBT treatment for gang bangers, drug dealers, etc. Events in the early 1990s and the 1994 AWB shook things up. |
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