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Posted: 2/26/2022 3:41:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Well we could do something with P-51 capabilities in about 180 days, but another 5th gen fighter? Uh, the war would be over before contracting got me a work order.
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Posted: 2/26/2022 3:43:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Crank out F16s?
I mean they're still produced and are still capable and should be cheaper as a legacy fighter. Maybe a bunch of super tucano style prop planes for CAS, or equip them with AA missiles. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 3:45:55 PM EDT
[#3]
Trained pilots would be the big problem I would think.
And seeing manufacturing in this country has been fucked for decades................ 
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Posted: 2/26/2022 3:57:47 PM EDT
[#4]
The USAF has been bragging about how little time it took to do their new "digital" bomber -
So, maybe less time that previous fighter designs. Or maybe not. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 4:09:27 PM EDT
[#5]
It’s called a “come as you are” war.
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Posted: 2/26/2022 4:10:33 PM EDT
[#6]
We would just crank out F-15s, F-16s, F/A-18s and F-35s.
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Posted: 2/26/2022 4:11:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trained pilots would be the big problem I would think. And seeing manufacturing in this country has been fucked for decades................ it takes 2 years to train a pilot to be able to hang on the wing of an experienced flight lead and lob a missile now and then mostly in the right direction. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 4:13:44 PM EDT
[#8]
I’m honestly surprised we haven’t had a company meeting yet about needing to up production for our aircraft parts. I’m in the development machine shop now but wrote the book on building and assembling F35 rudders and would likely get moved back to that role should things get spicy.
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Posted: 2/26/2022 4:16:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Guess its difficult to think of a scenario like this since our fighters are so advanced over other nations and it takes so long to develop them.
Maybe a better question is how fast could we ramp up f35 production and pilots. Could we make 2000 of each per year? Right now were making 156 per year. Along with all the supporting logistics. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 4:21:03 PM EDT
[#10]
They have already flown the prototype for the FXAA, or some kind of penetrating counter air 6th generation fighter. It went from design to test flight in one year which is the groundbreaking part of it.
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Posted: 2/26/2022 4:25:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We would just crank out F-15s, F-16s, F/A-18s and F-35s. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 4:26:25 PM EDT
[#12]
The quickest way to to get relatively modern aircraft would be to un-mothball the F16s, F15s and F/A18s stored at the AMAARG boneyard.
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Posted: 2/26/2022 4:26:41 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guess its difficult to think of a scenario like this since our fighters are so advanced over other nations and it takes so long to develop them. Maybe a better question is how fast could we ramp up f35 production and pilots. Could we make 2000 of each per year? Right now were making 156 per year. Along with all the supporting logistics. Raw materials in the supply chain is the huge restraint. Machines and tooling. They would need to dedicate a lot of money to retool from other product lines. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 5:55:07 PM EDT
[#14]
The smartest thing to do would be to manufacture small, high performance drones and use them as fighters.
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Posted: 2/26/2022 5:59:06 PM EDT
[#15]
 Attached FileBest option would probably be to dedicate all available resources to increasing production of F-35s and F-16s. The later models of F-16 are pretty effective.  Attached FileAll glory to the hypno-viper! |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 5:59:35 PM EDT
[#16]
We should focus on finishing the JATM or buy British Meteors, and crank out as many F35s as we can. We should do this now, once the big war starts it won't matter anymore, too late.
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Posted: 2/26/2022 6:02:25 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 2/26/2022 6:02:44 PM EDT
[#18]
I wanna know what a mass production main battle tank looks like for the US
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Posted: 2/26/2022 6:04:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryA general Mark Kelly talked about that in a recent episode of the Afterburn Podcast. I Wonder what it would take to ramp up full production of that beastie? Sourcing those engines might be a bit of a headache. Have to throw some $$$ at General Electric. 
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Posted: 2/26/2022 6:05:29 PM EDT
[#20]
We'd be better off crafting a bunch of drones to drop grenades and bricks of explosives or make kamikaze runs at expensive jet fighters.
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Posted: 2/26/2022 6:05:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: How long would it take to create a new fighter aircraft if a conventional world war III started and the US needed new modern fighters ASAP? The F22 took 20 years from development to its first operational use. In WWII it took less than 18 months for the P51. They are due to the amount of time it takes to milk the defense budget. If an actual war were putting a gun to our head the process could be streamlined greatly |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 6:06:01 PM EDT
[#22]
Without a drastic change in leadership, never.. There will be too many bureaucratic delays caused by the clowns in charge because the vendors don't have enough transgenders on the engineering team to make the federal diversity requirements, or they aren't green enough because their location isn't suitable for solar/wind power, or a former janitor 20 years ago donated a few bucks to a GOP politician.
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Posted: 2/26/2022 6:06:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A general Mark Kelly talked about that in a recent episode of the Afterburn Podcast. Grace Kelly was my boss twice during my career, when he was a Maj then a Lt Col. The best boss and fighter pilot of my military career by a wide margin. The USAF did well promoting him to COMACC. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 6:09:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Unfortunately, our equipment has become so specialized by necessity that we don't have factories in different places cranking out different equipment, for the most part. One Ryder truck loaded with diesel and fertilizer into the Ft Worth F-16 plant and you stop F-16 production in the US.
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Posted: 2/26/2022 6:12:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Grace Kelly was my boss twice during my career, when he was a Maj then a Lt Col. The best boss and fighter pilot of my military career by a wide margin. The USAF did well promoting him to COMACC. That interview was one of the most relaxing things I've heard recently. It's good to hear that not every general officer in the military at the moment is either an out of touch lunatic, political hack or incompetent nincompoop. Or more and more often all 3.
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Posted: 2/26/2022 6:14:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The smartest thing to do would be to manufacture small, high performance drones and use them as fighters. Hell, you can make them big, too. I believe the 6th gen referenced a few posts above is "pilot optional." The F22 and F35 debacles taught the Air Force a lot about how not to develop aircraft. Turns out that a good design team and some software can do the job pretty damn fast. I imagine improvements in aerodynamic and RCS modeling go a long way, too, as well as hands-on logistical and manufacturing experience with other stealth craft. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 6:15:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hell, you can make them big, too. I believe the 6th gen referenced a few posts above is "pilot optional." The F22 and F35 debacles taught the Air Force a lot about how not to develop aircraft. Turns out that a good design team and some software can do the job pretty damn fast. I imagine improvements in aerodynamic and RCS modeling go a long way, too, as well as hands-on logistical and manufacturing experience with other stealth craft. Wild card in the deck?  The incredible inventions of intuitive AI | Maurice Conti |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 6:21:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trained pilots would be the big problem I would think. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 6:23:13 PM EDT
[#29]
We could design em, but we couldn’t build them without the chips from China
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Posted: 2/26/2022 6:25:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trained pilots would be the big problem I would think.] I think there exists a decent reserve of trained individuals who could be called up. They would probably need some refresher training though. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 6:31:54 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well we could do something with P-51 capabilities in about 180 days, but another 5th gen fighter? Uh, the war would be over before contracting got me a work order. I'm not so sure about that. The problem is that most companies that contract with the government have no desire nor obligation to develop something quickly. The government for it's part seems to encourage this behavior. I've done similar work before, I know that our contract was for delivery of the product within 5 years, so it took us 5 years to deliver. In actuality we could have done it in less than a year. Now the work I did was not for an aircraft but I still think with the right engineering team, financing and without government bureaucracy, development would be much quicker than you'd think. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 6:43:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wanna know what a mass production main battle tank looks like for the US Any reason that it wouldn’t look like the existing M1 Abrams already in service? |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 6:43:54 PM EDT
[#33]
Kamikaze attack with General Aviation Planes (1000s) could be up and operational quickly. I'll go. I have over 3000 hours and I'm old and expendable. There are many of us. It's like riding a bike. For me to do a 500 mile flight with no electronics and a paper map at 300 ft. AGL would be an easy flight. Use a accelerometer based trigger on the payload and I'm set. Give me a target or turn me loose. NFG.
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Posted: 2/26/2022 7:03:31 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We'd be better off crafting a bunch of drones to drop grenades and bricks of explosives or make kamikaze runs at expensive jet fighters. I think that days of a maned fighter is coming to a end with the increased number of possibilities with drones. Why train a guy to phisically Fly a 30 million dollar jet when you can train the same guy to pilot a drone remotely flying something that is a tenth the cost and is literally disposable and can be mass produced. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 7:09:40 PM EDT
[#35]
From my entirely ignorant perspective as a guy on the internet, our airforce is overwhelmingly larger than any other nation and we have way more advanced jets than any other. All we have to do is overwhelm and outlast their airforce. Once we've shot down all their stuff, we have control over when, where, what to deploy. Even if their still have AA stuff on the ground taking shot from time to time, I don't think we have to worry that we would run out or lose airpower. A bad war would leave us probably quite poorly positioned for many years to come. But then, if we got into some WWIII and lost a 1000 planes, it becomes a case of, "yeah, but look how bloody the other guy is."
Same goes for naval stuff. We could take on like, the entire world's naval capability and come out on top. We've had a shit load of irreparable vessels and have no capability to fight an alien invasion afterwards. But neither would anyone else have the capacity to wage war on us either. The biggest threat to our military hardware is Democrats and scrapyards since we like to destroy our old toys rather than save for a really really rainy day. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 7:10:16 PM EDT
[#36]
We already have some of the best aircraft in the world. The better question is "how long would it take us to be able to develop every component of currently fielded aircraft domestically?" because right now, I'm not sure that we do, and rather, pretty sure that we don't.
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Posted: 2/26/2022 7:13:02 PM EDT
[#37]
Four years with orders for forgings placed two months in and access to wind tunnels with absolute first priority. Three years with some stars aligning.
NO new engines, cockpit avionics, weapons, helmets, seats, DAS/DIRS windows, or low observable technologies. None. Then the missing piece is leadership that allows risk, demands quick decisions, and backs up the staff. No hand wringing, decide. Apply a policy that every major part is released on time and weighing less than the bogey weight. Fire any manager that thinks CATIA should be used for the project. Can the morons that spout the diverse input and observations from the unqualified to comment is valuable. It's not, there is zero chance that the idea is obviously not bad, or has already been considered. Plow them out of the way. Stick with the contract requirements. There will be two or three instances when a minor problem crops up that the government wants to fix, can articulate the technical reason, and on exam it makes sense. But make the government earn and fund every change, like it or not. After first flight, continue on the test cards no matter government interference or opinions. Start weapons separation flights the same day. Five to ten flight test airplanes will be required, including one for static test that is complete at first flight and refurbished for other purposes, and a fatigue test airplane. There's more, but this is a a good start. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 7:14:18 PM EDT
[#38]
Clouds of drones, each carrying a 1" Tungsten ball bearing. Clog up the enemies' intakes.
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Posted: 2/26/2022 7:15:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They have already flown the prototype for the FXAA, or some kind of penetrating counter air 6th generation fighter. It went from design to test flight in one year which is the groundbreaking part of it. Now, there might be some exceedingly high risk demonstrator flying, but it wont be a man rated fighter, more likely a subscale unmanned vehicle. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 7:15:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Kamikaze attack with General Aviation Planes (1000s) could be up and operational quickly. I'll go. I have over 3000 hours and I'm old and expendable. There are many of us. It's like riding a bike. For me to do a 500 mile flight with no electronics and a paper map at 300 ft. AGL would be an easy flight. Use a accelerometer based trigger on the payload and I'm set. Give me a target or turn me loose. NFG.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 7:16:11 PM EDT
[#41]
Youd have to gut and restructure the bureaucratic procurement process and purge the spreadsheet wielding mba retards from all the aerospace companies.
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Posted: 2/26/2022 7:17:06 PM EDT
[#42]
We would never really know. Because about 5 minutes before the first one rolls off the line a cruise missile would obliterate the production facility.
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Posted: 2/26/2022 7:18:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Youd have to gut and restructure the bureaucratic procurement process and purge the spreadsheet wielding mba retards from all the aerospace companies. What!? You doubt our corporate masters? Where all responsibility is distributed and nothing is ever anyone's fault?
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Posted: 2/26/2022 7:18:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Bring back the F-14!!
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Posted: 2/26/2022 7:23:15 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We would never really know. Because about 5 minutes before the first one rolls off the line a cruise missile would obliterate the production facility. Japan and Germany we're switching to dispersed manufacturing really late in WW2. It was working and getting good production numbers. It was way to late. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 7:40:21 PM EDT
[#46]
In terms of new stuff, the best hope would be a modification of existing aircraft on hot production lines with tech that is already loosely compatible -- connecting/fitting etc with minimal changes.
In other words, you could possibly see new features added to F35s (software), new variants of F15s, F16s, F18s, perhaps more extensive use of stealth coatings on legacy airframes, but if a clean-sheet design plane were started at the start of a war, it likely wouldn't come online until after the war was over. You'd be very lucky to get a flight demonstrator in a few years. More practically, and rightfully, the emphasis would be on increasing production rates, adding production lines, etc. Innovation and design changes would negatively affect production volumes and in war we'd need replacements more than we'd need new tech. It's conceivable as well some effort would be put towards upgrading mothballed aircraft from the boneyard. Given the work required to do this would be less ambiguous, it's conceivable some aircraft could be brought back online and possibly with some low hanging upgrades in a shorter period of time. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 7:52:06 PM EDT
[#47]
So a bunch of dudes in the 1930s, with slide-rules, invented and hand-built a state-of-the-art airplane in months but now, with super-computers, CAD, and 3D printing it would take 20 years at least? What if there were no financial incentives for delays or cost over-runs?
When SkyNet finally takes over I bet it makes a new plane every week. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 8:01:23 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So a bunch of dudes in the 1930s, with slide-rules, invented and hand-built a state-of-the-art airplane in months but now, with super-computers, CAD, and 3D printing it would take 20 years at least? What if there were no financial incentives for delays or cost over-runs? When SkyNet finally takes over I bet it makes a new plane every week. In fairness, aircraft were a lot simpler machines at the time. However, I still agree things have become a lot more bureaucratic and unnecessarily slow. So I agree it could be faster, but nothing like what was done in the 30s. |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 8:25:55 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In fairness, aircraft were a lot simpler machines at the time. However, I still agree things have become a lot more bureaucratic and unnecessarily slow. So I agree it could be faster, but nothing like what was done in the 30s. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So a bunch of dudes in the 1930s, with slide-rules, invented and hand-built a state-of-the-art airplane in months but now, with super-computers, CAD, and 3D printing it would take 20 years at least? What if there were no financial incentives for delays or cost over-runs? When SkyNet finally takes over I bet it makes a new plane every week. In fairness, aircraft were a lot simpler machines at the time. However, I still agree things have become a lot more bureaucratic and unnecessarily slow. So I agree it could be faster, but nothing like what was done in the 30s. What if, one had an F-22 and simply wanted to reverse-engineer it with some more modern software? All things being equal - how long would it take us and how long would it take the CCP to get the production line going? |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 8:41:05 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if, one had an F-22 and simply wanted to reverse-engineer it with some more modern software? All things being equal - how long would it take us and how long would it take the CCP to get the production line going? That's what the Chinese kinda tried to do with the J-20, however... You can look up videos of this thing flying, it is big and the engines are far less powerful and efficient than what's in the F-22. When you see an F-22 or even for that matter an F-15 take off. It leaps off the ground. J-20s struggle into the air like an old man getting out of a bathtub. In order to support such a sophisticated device you need very advanced infrastructure. Which the Chinese communists simply do not have. Though they are working on that as hard as possible. The one advantage we have at the moment is that as corrupt as defense procurement is in this country. It's worse in China. |
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