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Posted: 6/25/2023 10:33:30 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bullshit, the MiG-21 is, almost 80 years old and still going strong. Most produced supersonic fighter in history. Nah, I'm mostly messing with you. But I'm a huge Fishbed fan and I think the MiG-21 was a huge game-changer when it first hit the field. Not sure how big of a "jump" the F-16 was compared to the F-15. @toybasher It wasn't meant to be a jump over the f15. It was meant to be lower cost. It was a high/low mix thing. They were procured in // to each other. Similar in concept to how the F22s/f35 were originally imagined. |
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Posted: 6/25/2023 10:35:28 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In terms of cost in relation to maintainability, performance and mission capability, the 16 can’t be beat. The 15 and 22 are better platforms but cost is higher. In regards to the 35, I would personally classify the plane as a 4.5 Gen aircraft. Horrible dogfighting capabilities and is not capable of super cruise. Hell, the French Rafale can do super cruise and it’s over 30 years old. Recent report stated that the B and C versions can not maintain sustained super sonic flight because structural damage would ensue. The 35 is the biggest defense acquisition failure in recent times. 
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Posted: 6/25/2023 10:37:31 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In terms of cost in relation to maintainability, performance and mission capability, the 16 can’t be beat. The 15 and 22 are better platforms but cost is higher. In regards to the 35, I would personally classify the plane as a 4.5 Gen aircraft. Horrible dogfighting capabilities and is not capable of super cruise. Hell, the French Rafale can do super cruise and it’s over 30 years old. Recent report stated that the B and C versions can not maintain sustained super sonic flight because structural damage would ensue. The 35 is the biggest defense acquisition failure in recent times. Tell us you have no idea what you're talking about without telling us you have no idea what you're talking about.... Multiple times. |
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Posted: 6/25/2023 10:40:42 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck, most of the planes with visible year-of-order numbers are close to my age. We really have almost-40-year-old front line jets? Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck, most of the planes with visible year-of-order numbers are close to my age. We really have almost-40-year-old front line jets? An incredible perception in this forum is the idea that the earliest date of introduction of an airplane means every copy of every variant started service that day. Along with no idea that a F-16A is not the same airplane as a F-16C; they appear the same on the outside, so they are obviously the same airplane is the logical opinion, despite that error. Anyway, the F-16 needs a larger radar aperture and a stiffer airframe in order to be on its way to be the greatest fighter . |
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Posted: 6/25/2023 11:13:52 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tell us you have no idea what you're talking about without telling us you have no idea what you're talking about.... Multiple times. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In terms of cost in relation to maintainability, performance and mission capability, the 16 can’t be beat. The 15 and 22 are better platforms but cost is higher. In regards to the 35, I would personally classify the plane as a 4.5 Gen aircraft. Horrible dogfighting capabilities and is not capable of super cruise. Hell, the French Rafale can do super cruise and it’s over 30 years old. Recent report stated that the B and C versions can not maintain sustained super sonic flight because structural damage would ensue. The 35 is the biggest defense acquisition failure in recent times. Tell us you have no idea what you're talking about without telling us you have no idea what you're talking about.... Multiple times. He isn’t totally wrong. The F35 has some incredible capabilities in theory, but it has huge failures that are marketed as a feature. Speed is speed. The 35 isn’t quick in any useful configuration. LM markets that failure as no big deal because magic sensors, long range weapons, etc…but speed is still speed and distance is still distance. For what it costs and in 2023, it should do more. |
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Posted: 6/25/2023 11:19:26 AM EDT
[#6]
Another @cmjohnson thread in before screechjet stats blathering on about gay stuff again 
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Posted: 6/25/2023 1:23:41 PM EDT
[#7]
One of my daughters is a Pentagon based news journalist. Last month she was invited to go up in an F-16 with the USAF Thunderbirds, which she quickly accepted. Here are a couple of pics from her 45 minute flight.
FWIW, no she didn't puke.    |
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Posted: 6/25/2023 2:07:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another @cmjohnson thread - Happens in every fighter/CAS/weapon system thread. SMEs who have or are currently operating them respond, usually to clarify and provide context to some wiki talking points that get repeated. Then, a significant amount of follow on posters either ignore that or double down. in before screechjet stats blathering on about gay stuff again -- Hopefully that was just a one off occurrence, but can't say it was any less informative than many of the other replies |
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Posted: 6/25/2023 2:35:45 PM EDT
[#9]
I don't know about greatest fighter, but the F-16 represented a welcome departure from DoD's "gold plate all the things" mentality in fielding the first major weapon system in many years that was both cheap and effective.
I think it was a massive oversight not to make it rough airfield capable however. |
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Posted: 6/25/2023 2:45:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another @cmjohnson thread in before screechjet stats blathering on about gay stuff again It's the one subject he brings up that I am sure he is an expert on. |
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Posted: 6/25/2023 4:21:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's the one subject he brings up that I am sure he is an expert on.  Seinfeld - Not that there's anything wrong with that |
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Posted: 6/25/2023 4:32:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another @cmjohnson thread in before screechjet stats blathering on about gay stuff again I love the F14 threads so Commander “Rodent” Heatherly can tell us how huge a pos they were. |
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Posted: 6/25/2023 5:52:05 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He isn’t totally wrong. The F35 has some incredible capabilities in theory, but it has huge failures that are marketed as a feature. Speed is speed. The 35 isn’t quick in any useful configuration. LM markets that failure as no big deal because magic sensors, long range weapons, etc…but speed is still speed and distance is still distance. For what it costs and in 2023, it should do more. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: In terms of cost in relation to maintainability, performance and mission capability, the 16 can’t be beat. The 15 and 22 are better platforms but cost is higher. In regards to the 35, I would personally classify the plane as a 4.5 Gen aircraft. Horrible dogfighting capabilities and is not capable of super cruise. Hell, the French Rafale can do super cruise and it’s over 30 years old. Recent report stated that the B and C versions can not maintain sustained super sonic flight because structural damage would ensue. The 35 is the biggest defense acquisition failure in recent times. Tell us you have no idea what you're talking about without telling us you have no idea what you're talking about.... Multiple times. He isn’t totally wrong. The F35 has some incredible capabilities in theory, but it has huge failures that are marketed as a feature. Speed is speed. The 35 isn’t quick in any useful configuration. LM markets that failure as no big deal because magic sensors, long range weapons, etc…but speed is still speed and distance is still distance. For what it costs and in 2023, it should do more.
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