[ARCHIVED THREAD] - F-22 Raptor 2021-2022 Student Project thread-Update 5/21 pg3-sections cut and ready (Page 2 of 4)
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Quoted: Cool thanks....if you're going to do a timeline of fighters I'm going to lobby for an F14 somewhere but I'm biased.  In that first pic, that plane looks like it got dunked in the ocean for a few weeks. Is that kind of rust normal? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: For wings, you might look at kydex folded over a frame.... Kinda where I was going, build a lightweight frame using something like EMT and wrap it in plastic polymer etc. We use pen and ink drawing board for the skin. It is pretty light, allows easy modeling, even curves, and can be fixed quickly. I'll see if I can find pictures of the wing structure of the Space Shuttle. Cool thanks....if you're going to do a timeline of fighters I'm going to lobby for an F14 somewhere but I'm biased. Quoted: @guns762 https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48373913452_4d8bfb7ef3_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48400945987_19615bf150_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48401010996_87f765c35c_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48373376326_d7cf806d22_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/4251/35061414862_30764f4636_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48400357032_a092e46823_h.jpg In that first pic, that plane looks like it got dunked in the ocean for a few weeks. Is that kind of rust normal? I don't know if its normal. But I have seen a couple 22's with that wear on them. I would imagine the finish on the demo planes is not such a priority to keep as immaculate. Especially seeing as expensive and complicated it is to keep it operationally perfect. |
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Quoted: I don't know if its normal. But I have seen a couple 22's with that wear on them. I would imagine the finish on the demo planes is not such a priority to keep as immaculate. Especially seeing as expensive and complicated it is to keep it operationally perfect. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: For wings, you might look at kydex folded over a frame.... Kinda where I was going, build a lightweight frame using something like EMT and wrap it in plastic polymer etc. We use pen and ink drawing board for the skin. It is pretty light, allows easy modeling, even curves, and can be fixed quickly. I'll see if I can find pictures of the wing structure of the Space Shuttle. Cool thanks....if you're going to do a timeline of fighters I'm going to lobby for an F14 somewhere but I'm biased. Quoted: @guns762 https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48373913452_4d8bfb7ef3_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48400945987_19615bf150_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48401010996_87f765c35c_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48373376326_d7cf806d22_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/4251/35061414862_30764f4636_h.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48400357032_a092e46823_h.jpg In that first pic, that plane looks like it got dunked in the ocean for a few weeks. Is that kind of rust normal? I don't know if its normal. But I have seen a couple 22's with that wear on them. I would imagine the finish on the demo planes is not such a priority to keep as immaculate. Especially seeing as expensive and complicated it is to keep it operationally perfect. There’s a birds eye view of a squadron of Raptors in a hanger after escaping a hurricane. They’re pretty weathered. I’ll see if I can find it... EDIT: Here it is. Quality might be lacking: 
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If you want to do a mural of other planes, at a minimum, a generation of jets could be imagined. Some thoughts on that... Eddie Rickenbacker was the premier American Ace of WWI and MoH winner and he flew two French planes, SPAD S.XIII and Nieuport 28. Either of these could be shown. 22 confirmed kills Richard Bong was the Ace of Aces of WWII and he flew a P-38 Lightning, 40 confirmed Japanese kills. As we enter the jet age, we get into the Gen 1,2,3,4,5 stuff Gen 1 = Korean War / F-86 Sabre - if you care about Aces, Joseph C. McConnell was the highest Ace of the Korean War with 16 kills Gen 2 = (Post Korea - major shift in design because of learnings) Lockheed F-104 Starfighter Gen 3 = Vietnam War - McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom - There were other planes, but all 4 Aces, of whom had 5 kills, all flew the F-4 Phantom. No other American plane had an Ace. (also worth noting the Israelis have a ton of Aces who flew the F-4 as well with double digit kills each) Gen 4 = Modernish Era, no other plane comes close to the F-15 in terms of kills. As great as the F16, F18, F14, etc., are, they don't compare to the resume of the F15... Resume being confirmed kills. Gen 5 = you've got it, the F22. |
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Quoted: ETA: If anyone has dimensions on how thick the wings are at different points, we'd very much appreciate that.  Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The students need to look harder or for a different set of surfaces for the model. The wing root is not 4 inches thick full scale. Or, simply fatten up what they have now. A good arbitrary number to use would be a 12% thick airfoil at the root; that would be 12% of the root chord. There's no doubt that is not exact, but this is a stand off model so it doesn't matter. . Thank you. I will let them know we need to look deeper into that. We can do a bit of scaling with some of the photos too. ETA: If anyone has dimensions on how thick the wings are at different points, we'd very much appreciate that. Do you want the kids to learn how to develop a lofted surface? This is what Mike Selig's reference says - Lockheed/Boeing 645 F-22 Raptor root: NACA 64A?05.92 tip: NACA 64A?04.29 Those are remarkably thin 6 series sections, one of the details that allows the airplane to supercruise. The root section is essentially 5.9% thick, the tip 4.3% thick. This article includes a plot of the wing thickness ratios and twist from root to tip - http://www.dept.aoe.vt.edu/~mason/Mason_f/F22Spr11.pdf I'll have to dig to find coordinates for a 64A section, but an internet search should turn up something without much effort. This reference is the old bible for data - https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19930090976 I wouldn't get too far into the weeds on this. Maybe reduce the 12% thickness I mentioned, but don't go so far the wings become noodles. . |
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Quoted: ETA: If anyone has dimensions on how thick the wings are at different points, we'd very much appreciate that. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The students need to look harder or for a different set of surfaces for the model. The wing root is not 4 inches thick full scale. Or, simply fatten up what they have now. A good arbitrary number to use would be a 12% thick airfoil at the root; that would be 12% of the root chord. There's no doubt that is not exact, but this is a stand off model so it doesn't matter. . Thank you. I will let them know we need to look deeper into that. We can do a bit of scaling with some of the photos too. ETA: If anyone has dimensions on how thick the wings are at different points, we'd very much appreciate that. |
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Ewww....a F-22?...just kidding Next time pick something with a story behind it like Pardo's push  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardo |
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Quoted: For wings, you might look at kydex folded over a frame.... We will probably look at something similar to the Space Shuttle project. Just thinner. We've been working on the scale of the F-22 wing to fuselage. this is how that wing was constructed. The tail and doors are covered in the pen and ink board we use.    Wow, that' been a while ago.  
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Quoted: Do you want the kids to learn how to develop a lofted surface? This is what Mike Selig's reference says - Lockheed/Boeing 645 F-22 Raptor root: NACA 64A?05.92 tip: NACA 64A?04.29 Those are remarkably thin 6 series sections, one of the details that allows the airplane to supercruise. The root section is essentially 5.9% thick, the tip 4.3% thick. This article includes a plot of the wing thickness ratios and twist from root to tip - http://www.dept.aoe.vt.edu/~mason/Mason_f/F22Spr11.pdf I'll have to dig to find coordinates for a 64A section, but an internet search should turn up something without much effort. This reference is the old bible for data - https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19930090976 I wouldn't get too far into the weeds on this. Maybe reduce the 12% thickness I mentioned, but don't go so far the wings become noodles. . Thank you! That is pretty close to what he just came up with using the photos as a reference. I'll give him the numbers. 
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Quoted: I can't really help with wing cross sections, but I am curios if you are going to try to duplicate the subtle curvature near the outer span of the wings. It would be a PITA, I know. But, if you do decide to do it, I can give you some history behind it that your students would get a laugh out of. Might make it worth pursuing. Maybe not. We were just discussing that. It will be a bitch. 
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9 years?! Holy Toledo!  Sopwith Camel thread  Viking Ship  Stagecoach thread  Dragon Project |
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You ever think about renting out your students to other countries like Iran and the likes, for large sums of money, for when they make their "real" super duper new technology propaganda planes, so they actually look real? It would be the perfect fundraiser! IE.. Attached File |
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Quoted: Thank you! That is pretty close to what he just came up with using the photos as a reference. I'll give him the numbers. Quoted: Quoted: Do you want the kids to learn how to develop a lofted surface? This is what Mike Selig's reference says - Lockheed/Boeing 645 F-22 Raptor root: NACA 64A?05.92 tip: NACA 64A?04.29 Those are remarkably thin 6 series sections, one of the details that allows the airplane to supercruise. The root section is essentially 5.9% thick, the tip 4.3% thick. This article includes a plot of the wing thickness ratios and twist from root to tip - http://www.dept.aoe.vt.edu/~mason/Mason_f/F22Spr11.pdf I'll have to dig to find coordinates for a 64A section, but an internet search should turn up something without much effort. This reference is the old bible for data - https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19930090976 I wouldn't get too far into the weeds on this. Maybe reduce the 12% thickness I mentioned, but don't go so far the wings become noodles. . Thank you! That is pretty close to what he just came up with using the photos as a reference. I'll give him the numbers. I'd be impressed if one of the kids took on learning how to loft on the tube (or the board for that matter), but that is not a task this project can wait on. They'll make straight tapered lofts naturally on the tube, accounting only for the thickness change, whether they know it or not. The F-22 wings were engineered and built in Seattle. After they were shipped to Palmdale, the shop ground the outer plies to blend and smooth the surface for signature. Trouble is, the strength guys in Seattle did not provide sacrificial plies for that rework, and some of them were about to come unwound. Sharpen those pencils, and hope it all works out. . |
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Quoted: We just got over the last one! Give us a week or two for the next paycheck to come in! (Given the price of wood right now, we might need another one, stat!) Quoted: Quoted: Just got my shirt today Shirt fundraiser for this one? We just got over the last one! Give us a week or two for the next paycheck to come in! (Given the price of wood right now, we might need another one, stat!) Seniors have volunteered to sacrifice freshman kidneys for the good of the cause. We might get one or two sheets of plywood with their sale.
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Quoted: Seniors have volunteered to sacrifice freshman kidneys for the good of the cause. We might get one or two sheets of plywood with their sale. It's not legal for them to drink, yet, so losing 1 kidney isn't a problem. Livers regenerate, I've heard, but un-contaminated livers might get a premium price! (Yep, I live in a fantasy world where, if the legal drinking age is 21, no one touches a drop until then!)
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Quoted: In that first pic, that plane looks like it got dunked in the ocean for a few weeks. Is that kind of rust normal? No, it absolutely is NOT. JFC--doesn't the AF have a corrosion prevention program? I see the grade 4 slathered there--but those rusty fasteners are bullshit. |
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Quoted: There has got to be an arfcommer on the F22 program who can hook the kids up with patches or something. I know there's a couple arfcommers working F35, I might poke them and see if they know of anyone. It will be cool to see it come together! I may still have some contacts working F35s, but they'd be maintainers, not pilots. Have to wait a bit, I'm not allowed personal electronics at current job. |
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Quoted: Seniors have volunteered to sacrifice freshman kidneys for the good of the cause. We might get one or two sheets of plywood with their sale. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just got my shirt today Shirt fundraiser for this one? We just got over the last one! Give us a week or two for the next paycheck to come in! (Given the price of wood right now, we might need another one, stat!) Seniors have volunteered to sacrifice freshman kidneys for the good of the cause. We might get one or two sheets of plywood with their sale. If you were closer you could come raid my neighbors pile....they had to tear out their floors after the winter storm damage. The plywood looks pristine. Attached File |
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Quoted: If you were closer you could come raid my neighbors pile....they had to tear out their floors after the winter storm damage. The plywood looks pristine. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/67501/wood_JPG-1930835.JPG Has Spain claimed it yet?
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Quoted: If you were closer you could come raid my neighbors pile....they had to tear out their floors after the winter storm damage. The plywood looks pristine. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/67501/wood_JPG-1930835.JPG @2tired2run You should put that stuff up on the local ads and become a millionaire. I'll take a 5% cut for giving you the idea 
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Quoted: 9 years?! Holy Toledo! https://farm1.staticflickr.com/584/20684213238_2288c73f3c_b.jpg Sopwith Camel thread https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5806/20251178923_00a58dc0ce_b.jpg Viking Ship https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5625/20879474071_5f843c0369_b.jpg Stagecoach thread https://farm1.staticflickr.com/731/20684374158_9f22b3d453_b.jpg Dragon Project Thank you for finding all of those.
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Quoted: You're gonna need a bigger school...... With all the influx of students, we could use another wing. Looking at the Space Shuttle fuselage picture, I'm kind of chuckling. I had to ask permission to paint a mural on the wall behind the wolf and bear. The district chose and painted colors in all the pods shortly after that photo and wasn't wild about me changing them. The colors ended up being worked in to many of the displays. Now, I don't even ask permission about doing something in the pods. I usually let the principal know what we are planning and go for it. We have a great principal
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Quoted: Is the school ever open for a tour? I am driving from Colorado to MT this summer and I would love to see all these amazing projects. You wouldn't be the first ARFCOMER to get a tour. Yes, people stop by and if I'm in town, or in school, I give people a tour. 
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