User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/3/2023 10:46:18 PM EDT
How much of this article is pure Phantasy and how much is reality? I love the Phantom and have lots of memories of ANG birds flying over our house in the 70s. Post Vietnam it seemed like every ANG unit had them.
 Article Link Thus, legend has it that McDonnell-Douglas quietly withheld authorization for the PW1120-powered Super Phantom to prevent IAI from marketing a cost-effective competitor to its newer fighters. However, though the rumor appears widely-held, confirmation from primary sources is not in evidence. Here's What You Need to Remember: Some sources claim that Super Phantom upgrade was simply too expensive, totaling $12 million per aircraft when bundled with improved avionics of the Kurnass, as well as proposed airframe modifications including strakes, canards and special fuel tanks. Rest at the link. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2023 10:53:56 PM EDT
[#1]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2023 11:10:27 PM EDT
[#2]
I’m told that it turned like a manhole cover, I sat in one a couple times and I had a dream where I landed that one with canards on a ship bigger than any ship that currently exists.
The reason why I was landing on that ship was to guide my psychopathic fathers soul the rest of the way to his personal afterlife. Apparently Charon’s ferry has been upgraded a bit since the days of Ancient Greece. My father was bothering the souls of some people who had... been taken too soon. Dreams are weird. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2023 11:27:25 PM EDT
[#3]
I only saw it in flight once. It was 2001 at Keesler. I was walking from the dorms to the Project Lounge out the Pass Road gate. I was right in line with end of runway when I heard an aircraft coming right at me but it was not one of the normal aircraft for that base. It was a very dark night with no moon. I couldn't see shit. I waited for it's approached and it screamed at me as it descended over me and touched down. As soon as it was just passed me I could see that it was an F-4. I was like a kid again with the excitement. Then I barely noticed it's orange paint on the wing and elevator tips. Later, I found out it was a QF-4 from Tyndall.
 Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2023 11:42:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Seen many F4's up close/reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2023 11:43:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Loved watching them come and go at Luke AFB back in the 70's and 80's.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2023 11:44:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seen many F4's up close/reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2023 11:45:16 PM EDT
[#7]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2023 11:46:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mine were F15s, same result. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Seen many F4's up close/reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Cool, yer in the club. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2023 11:49:40 PM EDT
[#9]
I love the Phantom but anecdotally, my friends dad was a USAF fighter pilot (F-100, F-4, F-15) and he speaks like the AF never wanted the "Navy" plane. I was all excited to hear about him flying the F-4 but it wasn't his passion like the Hun or 15.
I get the impression that the AF went all in on the F-15 as their baby and upgrading the F-4 may have been viewed as lipstick on a pig. I'm only guessing though. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2023 11:51:55 PM EDT
[#10]
I’ve got the reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee…… and I’ve only been around these Phantoms.
  |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2023 11:53:47 PM EDT
[#11]
I worked around F4's during my time in the Marines. I don't know much about them, other than they are very fast.
Stand by for antique Phantom porn...  Attached File Attached File Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2023 11:54:23 PM EDT
[#12]
I miss seeing F4s and F16s zooming over Fort Worth
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2023 11:54:32 PM EDT
[#13]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2023 11:54:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I love the Phantom but anecdotally, my friends dad was a USAF fighter pilot (F-100, F-4, F-15) and he speaks like the AF never wanted the "Navy" plane. I was all excited to hear about him flying the F-4 but it wasn't his passion like the Hun or 15. I get the impression that the AF went all in on the F-15 as their baby and upgrading the F-4 may have been viewed as lipstick on a pig. I'm only guessing though. I recall seeing a video somewhere about a proposed upgrade package for the F-4 in the 80s. But this was scrapped in favor of buying more F-16s. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2023 11:58:39 PM EDT
[#15]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2023 11:58:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Rolls Royce powered Phantoms were cool:
 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 12:03:50 AM EDT
[#17]
Story time:
We were doing an RON in Incirlik a decade or two ago and a flight of Turkish F-4s roars overhead. The crew's young copilot asks the pilot, an old RF-4C driver from when the wing used to fly them, what it was like to fly them. The pilot, with no hesitation at all, responds "When my wife is around I'll say it was the next best thing to sex. When she's not around, it was better than sex." |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 12:04:14 AM EDT
[#18]
IAI F-4-2000 "Super Phantom" demonstration at Paris-Le Bourget airshow 1987
 IAI F-4-2000 "Super Phantom" demonstration at Paris-Le Bourget airshow 1987 |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 12:11:46 AM EDT
[#19]
The Phantom Transition - F-4 Phantoms In Star Wars Canyon [4K]
 The Phantom Transition - F-4 Phantoms In Star Wars Canyon [4K] Phantom Pharewell - USAF F-4 Phantom Last Flight  Phantom Pharewell - USAF F-4 Phantom Last Flight F-4 Phantom Helmet Cam - Two-Ship Airshow Demo and Departure - EAA AirVenture Oshkosh 2016  F-4 Phantom Helmet Cam - Two-Ship Airshow Demo and Departure - EAA AirVenture Oshkosh 2016 |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 12:13:23 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote History
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 12:17:54 AM EDT
[#21]
The article isn’t terribly coherent and the pitch does not make a lot of sense. Bottom line was that by the mid-80s, the Phantoms were ‘50s tech and with a lot of wear and tear on the fleet. Upgrading the avionics and FCS alone was not cheap, even before upgrading capabilities. Readiness rates were falling. Honestly, I’ve thought both the Navy and AF wrung a lot of use out of them after newer designs were available. Doing a massive upgrade on an old airframe vs. buying a new 14, 16, or 18 with 0 hours, just didn’t make a lot of sense.
OK, porn. I had just recently had Covid and fevers and apparently spent hours downloading a lot of weirdly-specific pics of cold war jets and, um, castles. I can’t explain.  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 12:28:48 AM EDT
[#22]
Isnt the F4 the OG fighter with supercriuse?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 2:12:16 AM EDT
[#23]
The F-4 was put to bed for a few reasons.
1. Wings were problematic, even with new wing spars and upgrades. Cracks were developing everywhere. The sheet metal guys were stop drilling and patching planes every day. 2. Replacement parts were virtually unavailable. IE: turbine blades were being sourced from the boneyard as well as a secondary vendor, turns it the secondary vendor was supplying blades that weren't properly NDI'd. This was found out after an Alabama plane(maybe Mississippi, can't remember exactly) threw a fan blade that exited the top of the fuselage through the fuel tank, the plane caught fire and exploded, back seater got out, pilot didn't. Boise also had a plane throw a blade, this one exited through the bottom. 3. And the biggest cause was the money appropriated for the F-4 was re-appropriated to the F-16 and F-22 programs. The Super Phantom was NEVER going to happen to the US fleet, no matter how much sense it made. Too much money to be made on new production lines. Same exact thing is happening to the A-10. And the reeeeeeee-reeeeee isn't that bad, until it goes reeeeeee,rrrEEEEEEreeeeREEEEE |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 2:34:52 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I miss seeing F4s and F16s zooming over Fort Worth And Buffs. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 8:26:54 AM EDT
[#25]
I flew F-4Js, F-4 Super Js and F-4Ss in the early '80s. They were tired by then, with lots of hydraulic issues especially.
The slatted wings would give you a good turn, but it'd cost a hundred knots. As much as I liked the plane, it was a dinosaur by then. There are stories to be told, but not until I no longer need my pilot license.  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 8:31:16 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Loved watching them come and go at Luke AFB back in the 70's and 80's. Coulda seen my dad flying one then. I was born on Luke AFB in '76. Dad was a WSO in the Phantom II at that time. I'll have to send the link to him, see what he says. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 8:38:25 AM EDT
[#27]
I need to watch the Great Santini again.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 8:41:16 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And Buffs. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 8:58:25 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seen many F4's up close/reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Yep. I spent a year at Udorn, Thailand in 73 and there was no way to get away from the jet noise on base. 24/7 when I got there but slowed down some after a while. I had to work near the flight line quite a bit and the jet noise was unbearable even with ear muffs. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 9:10:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And the reeeeeeee-reeeeee isn't that bad, until it goes reeeeeee,rrrEEEEEEreeeeREEEEE Yeah, growing up on F4 and F111 bases as a kid, then going aircrew too, plus a love of guns....you've got that tinnitus noise right. Last F-4s I saw flying (that weren't drones/targets) were in Egypt, roughly 2004-2005. Egyptian AF birds, I believe they're retired now. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 9:24:20 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: I flew F-4Js, F-4 Super Js and F-4Ss in the early '80s. They were tired by then, with lots of hydraulic issues especially. The slatted wings would give you a good turn, but it'd cost a hundred knots. As much as I liked the plane, it was a dinosaur by then. There are stories to be told, but not until I no longer need my pilot license. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/13440/F4_jpg-2659946.JPG  Attached FileQuoted: I need to watch the Great Santini again. That’s a good idea. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 9:32:55 AM EDT
[#32]
The F4 was and still is my favorite fighter jet that we have produced.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 9:33:10 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote Historynow that's an awesome patch! |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 9:36:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Spent a lot of time on phantoms
Me when I was young finishing up a load of 500 pounders. with fuze extenders on one wing, and cluster bombs on the. other.  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 9:39:09 AM EDT
[#35]
A million rivets flying in close formation.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 9:39:43 AM EDT
[#36]
A friend who flew them said they were proof you can make a brick supersonic with enough engine.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 9:41:07 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm pretty sure they had a copy of this at the Lambert ANGB. Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm pretty sure they had a copy of this at the Lambert ANGB. I just noticed the first two airplanes in the drawings near the top of the thread have scalloped panels; those are real fine addition to the fantasy. I also appreciate hanging canards on skyhooks in order to attach them to the inlets. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 9:42:16 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And Buffs. You’ll still see the occasional b-52 landing at the JRB. You can see one coming from about ten miles out from the smoke trail. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 9:57:31 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The F-4 was put to bed for a few reasons. 1. Wings were problematic, even with new wing spars and upgrades. Cracks were developing everywhere. The sheet metal guys were stop drilling and patching planes every day. 2. Replacement parts were virtually unavailable. IE: turbine blades were being sourced from the boneyard as well as a secondary vendor, turns it the secondary vendor was supplying blades that weren't properly NDI'd. This was found out after an Alabama plane(maybe Mississippi, can't remember exactly) threw a fan blade that exited the top of the fuselage through the fuel tank, the plane caught fire and exploded, back seater got out, pilot didn't. Boise also had a plane throw a blade, this one exited through the bottom. 3. And the biggest cause was the money appropriated for the F-4 was re-appropriated to the F-16 and F-22 programs. The Super Phantom was NEVER going to happen to the US fleet, no matter how much sense it made. Too much money to be made on new production lines. Same exact thing is happening to the A-10. And the reeeeeeee-reeeeee isn't that bad, until it goes reeeeeee,rrrEEEEEEreeeeREEEEE The wings were static tested to 280% Limit Load, and cracked anyway. There were several reasons besides uncertainty about the internal loads, the fatigue analysis methods were crude and maturing, everyone was under schedule pressure, the shop supervision at that time could get away with ignoring nonconformances or hiding and pushing shoddy work out the door. 5195 built. Remarkable compared to current programs. Here are a few that will push out the doors out of sight at the bottom of the photo, go to paint, through production test flying, get the squawks fixed, then fly directly to Viet Nam -  |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 10:22:32 AM EDT
[#40]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 10:27:33 AM EDT
[#41]
Some of My favorite MTANG memories are of baby-sitting RF-4's from the Idaho ANG that would come to play with our guys.
signed for a few thousand gallons of JP NOISE Maker those weekends. It was worth it to have to put some polish back on the toes of my boots. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 10:35:40 AM EDT
[#42]
They are oily greasy things. The wings are covered with oil after a flight. I had to work on them periodically.
The coolest plane crash I personally witnessed was a F-4 at NAS Fallon. It was a wheels up, foamed runway, cable arrest. The cable failed and the aircraft started to slide down the runway turning sideways with one wing in the air the other skidding down the runway. The pilot hit the afterburners and shot foam everywhere; but sustained flight barely missing the TV antennas on the base housing. He took the aircraft to one of the ranges and punched out. They immediately quarantine the squadron having them sit on the flight line 5’ apart no talking until all the tool boxes were inventoried and statements were taken. After that they were sent to the crash site to recover the pieces. The aircraft pounded in a dry lake bed 17 miles from the ejection point into a dry lake bed. The impact broke through the dried top layer resting down into the mud. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 10:40:34 AM EDT
[#43]
My grandfather worked for McDonnell Douglas in St.Louis as an AE.
He designed some part of that aircraft, and parts of the F15. He took me to the rollout of the 5,000th Phantom. I think that would have been 1978. I used to have some swag from it, but it’s long gone now. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 10:46:42 AM EDT
[#44]
I think the South Koreans are still flying the things.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 11:00:56 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the South Koreans are still flying the things. Wiki says Greece, Iran, SK, and Turkey still operate them with ~150 total in service among them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 11:02:15 AM EDT
[#46]
There is no doubt politics helped kill the super phantom. It was probably the right thing to do given the f-15 is so much better anyway. Kind of like dumping a bunch of money into fixing up a 1980's era car in order to compete with a 2020's era cars. From the ground up it's never gonna be better.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 11:03:43 AM EDT
[#47]
 FIL was CO over these guys for a while |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 11:05:09 AM EDT
[#48]
Happy Phantom emoji for Phantom thread.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 11:11:52 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I flew F-4Js, F-4 Super Js and F-4Ss in the early '80s. They were tired by then, with lots of hydraulic issues especially. The slatted wings would give you a good turn, but it'd cost a hundred knots. As much as I liked the plane, it was a dinosaur by then. There are stories to be told, but not until I no longer need my pilot license. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/13440/F4_jpg-2659946.JPG I figured you would chime in! |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2023 11:35:26 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Story time: We were doing an RON in Incirlik a decade or two ago Incirlik 1970. Nice place to be. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File
Attached File
Attached File
Attached File
Attached File