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Posted: 8/29/2023 7:36:54 AM EDT
[#1]
While I do believe if they are double dipping and committing fraud then that should have repercussions.
Having said that planes are not falling out of the sky due to medical incapacitation. It is extremely rare. The FAA medical bureaucracy is joke. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 7:39:00 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More than likely this is what the issue is. It will be ignored and completely missed. The jump to conclusions mat has been rolled out ITT. You’re correct. But there will be ignorant outage anyways. We’ve already got the jump to “this will be implemented by the ATF” by more than one poster. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 7:40:27 AM EDT
[#3]
I believe big changes are coming as the writing is on the wall between Genesis and this
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Posted: 8/29/2023 7:42:38 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While I do believe if they are double dipping and committing fraud then that should have repercussions. Having said that planes are not falling out of the sky due to medical incapacitation. It is extremely rare. The FAA medical bureaucracy is joke.  Attached FileYou don't think it's because they have all passed a medical exam maybe, do ya? |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 7:43:37 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Several in our city are running 100 percent VA disability, and proud of it. They even are coaching the younger ones in the reserves to run the table before they get older and separate. Several cops, firefighters, and public works guys are 100 percent disabled yet for some odd reason are able to work and function just fine. I’m guessing the same is true in the pilot world, and they just got caught due to FAA regulations. Flame suit on. I just think of it as payment/ compensationfor suffering through the constant pain from injuries I recieved on active duty that I dont take pain meds for because I'd probably end up addicted. I live in more pain in one day than a twenty something deals with in a year. But I still show up for work every day turning wrenches so the .mil can fly. Compensation for the cancer I dealt with and still deal with. For the meds I have to take and dealing with the issues because Agent Orange burned up my thyroid at 18. For the meds I have to take because AO started clogging up my LAD at 27 years old, the first heart attack and stent at 35 years old while on a SWAT team. For the second heart attack, for the third. For the 3 corrective shoulder surgeries, for the shoulder replacement, for the two knee surgeries and dealing with knee injuries for 40 years. For the upcoming bilateral knee replacements For dealing with the shit the .gov and the .mil exposed us to then lied about and covered up. We earned that money. The hard, long way. Get over it. Sure theres some, maybe a lot of fraud and abuse. When you find it, deal with it. If a pilot has disability that prevents him from flying safely...if he cant pass his medical, pull his ticket. If not...get the hell out of his business. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 7:44:17 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Our current government = lets fuck over vets so we can give more money to illegals and Ukraine. I don't want to hear about trying to save .gov money as long as they keep finding unlimited funds for Ukraine and illegal immigrants. Democrat Commie government run by commies for commies. This x 87 |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 7:50:21 AM EDT
[#7]
Usually it’s ill advised to get paid disability for a diagnosis then turn around and lie to said government paying you disability to pass a physical.
The fact it’s only revoking certificates of 60 guys and is letting the others “make it right” without taking legal or certificate action points to the FAA being pretty reasonable. (As much as it pains me to say it.) |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 7:52:16 AM EDT
[#8]
Lmao..
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Posted: 8/29/2023 7:56:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Well, I guess we'll have to see what they're looking for.
My nephew had his helicopter pilots license revoked because he lost consciousness in a motorcycle accident. Not for all the pins in his wrist or ankle, but because he lost consciousness. He has no lingering issues from the concussion. He appealed it twice but it's an expensive process and they made it pretty clear he's never getting it back. The Army pulled their offer of flight school as well. They're probably more concerned about head injuries is my guess. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:01:20 AM EDT
[#10]
I had a guy working for me (48-60 hours a week) that was getting disability, yet he was a gym rat and had a pretty physically demanding job.
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:01:23 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How does the VA allowing the FAA access to veterans medical records and diagnosis square with Hippa? Anyone who says "hippa" clearly has no clue what HIPAA is. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:07:21 AM EDT
[#12]
Seems reasonable. Not to disparage anyone with a true service related disability, but it seems like the vast majority of DV cases are utter bullshit.
Hell my next door neighbor collects all sorts of benefits related to his disability. The problem? Mild hearing loss from time spent on a (non war time) naval ship |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:08:01 AM EDT
[#13]
Seems to me that if they are physically capable of flying, they should have had their disability revoked, not their pilots license.
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:08:11 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While I do believe if they are double dipping and committing fraud then that should have repercussions. Having said that planes are not falling out of the sky due to medical incapacitation. It is extremely rare. The FAA medical bureaucracy is joke. Double dipping what? VA Disability isn't the same as Workers Comp or getting Social Security for a disability. You can work all you want if you're capable. Bad knees or a bad back with tinnitus won't stop you from working, but in most cases it's up to the veteran how they limit themselves. My knees are fucked from jumping out of planes and humping a ruck but it doesn't stop me from climbing cell towers. I do take Motrin on occasion, but it's up to me to decide when I need to stop. I can see the VA being concerned about head injuries, and the only "double dipping" I'm aware of in regards to VA Disability is collecting VA Disability and getting paid for attending Reserve/Guard drills. You can do both, but they'll only pay you for one (unless that's changed since the 90's). That's a bullshit policy in my opinion and kicked in right after I got out of the Army in '92. It's also why I quit the Reserves. My VA Disability payments were more than weekend Reserve pay, so why go to drills every month and 2 weeks in the summer if I wasn't getting paid for it? I was being punished for serving on active duty. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:08:18 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/giphyggt-462.gif You don't think it's because they have all passed a medical exam maybe, do ya? The FAA medical exams are a joke. Most issues pilots have are found by others like their PCPs. For non-commercial pilots if you are a sport pilot (think very small planes 2 passengers) you can fly with just a drivers license. They also initiated Basic Med several years ago which has a few restrictions over a class 3 but not really much. That is a physical by your PCP every 4 years. Since these relaxed standards were put in place there has been little effect on accident rate based on medical issues. I would also add that if you have enough time (willing to jump through hoops) and money (to get tested for things your insurance wont pay for) you can generally get a special issuance (SI) for almost any condition including say a heart attack. ETA: Pilots are supposed to do a self evaluation every time they fly. In my mind that is way more important than a quick physical from a doctor you had 6 months or a year ago. Would you rather your pilot be seeking medical attention when they need it and being treated or that they just lie or get what they need off the record to avoid the FAA paperwork and run around? |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:11:13 AM EDT
[#16]
Now they should compare the list of those on 100% VA disability while being employed full time as police officers.
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:11:27 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems reasonable. Not to disparage anyone with a true service related disability, but it seems like the vast majority of DV cases are utter bullshit. Hell my next door neighbor collects all sorts of benefits related to his disability. The problem? Mild hearing loss from time spent on a (non war time) naval ship Non wartime is irrelevant. If the military fucks you up, regardless of how it happened, you're entitled to VA Disability. You're serving your country and sacrificing your body in peacetime, too. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:11:39 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Double dipping what? VA Disability isn't the same as Workers Comp or getting Social Security for a disability. You can work all you want if you're capable. Bad knees or a bad back with tinnitus won't stop you from working, but in most cases it's up to the veteran how they limit themselves. My knees are fucked from jumping out of planes and humping a ruck but it doesn't stop me from climbing cell towers. I do take Motrin on occasion, but it's up to me to decide when I need to stop. I can see the VA being concerned about head injuries, and the only "double dipping" I'm aware of in regards to VA Disability is collecting VA Disability and getting paid for attending Reserve/Guard drills. You can do both, but they'll only pay you for one (unless that's changed since the 90's). That's a bullshit policy in my opinion and kicked in right after I got out of the Army in '92. It's also why I quit the Reserves. My VA Disability payments were more than weekend Reserve pay, so why go to drills every month and 2 weeks in the summer if I wasn't getting paid for it? I was being punished for serving on active duty. Double dipping may have been a poor choice of words. However, if they are telling one branch of the government they can't work due to say PTSD anxiety... and then tell another branch they are perfectly fine that to operate an aircraft likely only one of them is true. I assume the reason the only pulled tickets on 60 people is because as you say they don't have conditions that would be a flight hazard. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:13:24 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone who says "hippa" clearly has no clue what HIPAA is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How does the VA allowing the FAA access to veterans medical records and diagnosis square with Hippa? Anyone who says "hippa" clearly has no clue what HIPAA is. I dont know much but I do know my medical records should be between me and my doc. And no one else. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:14:03 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the VA/Mil/govt employee mgmt [police/FF/etc] treated disability fraud like most private companies do to weed out the liars, those with actual disabilities Mil/work related might actually have the funding to get help/treated better. It's a game and everyone in certain professions knows it. I damn well well will bet that bolt on's and a fake rot hole will be considered a ''disability'' in the very near future when ''alexia,'' who got that shit from the Mil medical while in, says it's causing her to not ''be well.'' Personally, I'd kick about 75-90% of EVERYONE on some kind of ''disability'' off the system. The abuse is astounding. [and I know a few and ALL of them save one is FOS about how it happened or how bad it really is] |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:16:46 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems to me that if they are physically capable of flying, they should have had their disability revoked, not their pilots license. You have no idea how VA disabilities work. I had five breaks in three fingers with a detached ligament. I only have partial movement of my right middle finger because the ligament was never reattached. But when I close my fist, the other fingers kind of close in on it and carry it into the fist. How does that prevent me from flying? And if I had a pilot's license, does my finger magically start working again to warrant revoking the disability rating? |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:16:57 AM EDT
[#22]
I work with a couple guys that get 100% disability from their service, and they hold 150k+ year jobs.
Quite aggravating. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:16:57 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. That was an easy one. All VA beneficiaries are targets for abuse. Yeah, I imagine it won't be long before ATF starts rooting through their digital copies of 4473's that they've been making on inspections and start cross referencing question 21h with VA information. It was always a rumor that this happened, and until this FAA story broke out, it was just a gun counter rumor. That all being said, the VA is currently pushing to modernize it's systems to include data sharing and machine learning. The proposed budget slates 5.8 billion dollars to continuing that current effort. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:18:27 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I work with a couple guys that get 100% disability from their service, and they hold 150k+ year jobs. Quite aggravating. That's right. Disabled vets should be required by law to live in abject poverty. Amiright? 
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:18:43 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How does the VA allowing the FAA access to veterans medical records and diagnosis square with Hippa? Just a guess on my part, but I suspect if you are receiving a medical disability, you probably grant the right to audit medical records. Just a guess though. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:21:22 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You’re correct. But there will be ignorant outage anyways. We’ve already got the jump to “this will be implemented by the ATF” by more than one poster. This was initiated by the VA, not the FAA. Several years back, there was the big push regarding whether or not a Veteran was competent to handle finances. Vets who told examiners, "my wife does that" were ruled to be incompetent, and told they could no longer purchase firearms. It's hardly jumping the shark. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:23:05 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems reasonable. Not to disparage anyone with a true service related disability, but it seems like the vast majority of DV cases are utter bullshit. Hell my next door neighbor collects all sorts of benefits related to his disability. The problem? Mild hearing loss from time spent on a (non war time) naval ship Disability Compensation has no wartime requirement. Pension payments do. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:25:07 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. That was an easy one. All VA beneficiaries are targets for abuse. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You can bet there is more to come on this front… Yep. That was an easy one. All VA beneficiaries are targets for abuse. It started years ago under Obama when Congress tried stripping 2nd Amendment rights from veterans who needed help with their finances. The ACLU actually blocked it because it you can't strip citizens of their rights without due process. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:26:05 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What a crock of shit - "irritability with periods of unprovoked violence" That your generalized medical opinion there Doc? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What about the guy with 100% for PTSD with daily suicidal ideation. Irritability with periods of unprovoked violence? Do we really want him flying? If they claim it on their FAA physical and are granted a waiver, cool. But if they lie on the FAA physical, do you want them flying your plane? What a crock of shit - "irritability with periods of unprovoked violence" That your generalized medical opinion there Doc? In all fairness, those are the type of symptoms that gets a vet a diagnosis of PTSD and disability for it. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:26:25 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really? So a guy who gets 100% for 30% tinnitus and hearing loss but wears hearing aids, 40% for an elbow injury thats treated with cortizone injections, another 40% for bilateral knee injuries also treated with cortizone injections, another 50% for vertebre injuries in a helo crash that are manageble with nsaids and PT or any of a hundred conditions that would NOT prevent him to fly commercially and earn a living for himself and his family? So he should sit home and rot? I'm 70% disabled yet still capable to work as a helo/fixed wing mechanic for the .gov., should I be banned from working on aircraft because...what? Because you're disabled. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:26:59 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's right. Disabled vets should be required by law to live in abject poverty. Amiright? No not at all.. but I do believe it's a drain on the system where some could use that $ to get better help through the VA or put it towards other resources in that system. I think there should be some type of tapering down at some point. If you served I fully believe you should be entitled to something, just not 100% disability payments when you are still able to maintain normal life and a 150k+ job without issue. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:28:03 AM EDT
[#32]
It boils down to lying on a government form (just like hunter biden).
Regardless of the constitutionality of said form. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:28:32 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: “and to promote the proper use of significant taxpayer dollars” 
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:28:52 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Double dipping may have been a poor choice of words. However, if they are telling one branch of the government they can't work due to say PTSD anxiety... and then tell another branch they are perfectly fine that to operate an aircraft likely only one of them is true. I assume the reason the only pulled tickets on 60 people is because as you say they don't have conditions that would be a flight hazard. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Double dipping what? VA Disability isn't the same as Workers Comp or getting Social Security for a disability. You can work all you want if you're capable. Bad knees or a bad back with tinnitus won't stop you from working, but in most cases it's up to the veteran how they limit themselves. My knees are fucked from jumping out of planes and humping a ruck but it doesn't stop me from climbing cell towers. I do take Motrin on occasion, but it's up to me to decide when I need to stop. I can see the VA being concerned about head injuries, and the only "double dipping" I'm aware of in regards to VA Disability is collecting VA Disability and getting paid for attending Reserve/Guard drills. You can do both, but they'll only pay you for one (unless that's changed since the 90's). That's a bullshit policy in my opinion and kicked in right after I got out of the Army in '92. It's also why I quit the Reserves. My VA Disability payments were more than weekend Reserve pay, so why go to drills every month and 2 weeks in the summer if I wasn't getting paid for it? I was being punished for serving on active duty. Double dipping may have been a poor choice of words. However, if they are telling one branch of the government they can't work due to say PTSD anxiety... and then tell another branch they are perfectly fine that to operate an aircraft likely only one of them is true. I assume the reason the only pulled tickets on 60 people is because as you say they don't have conditions that would be a flight hazard. Gotcha. I understand what you're saying. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:29:04 AM EDT
[#35]
I won’t doubt that PTSD will equal no guns.
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:32:10 AM EDT
[#36]
The VA should spend more time looking internally at how they rate ‘disabilities,’ disabilities and medical conditions. 100% ratings should be reserved for those who can’t work. Just my $.02.
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:33:06 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No not at all.. but I do believe it's a drain on the system where some could use that $ to get better help through the VA or put it towards other resources in that system. I think there should be some type of tapering down at some point. If you served I fully believe you should be entitled to something, just not 100% disability payments when you are still able to maintain normal life and a 150k+ job without issue. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's right. Disabled vets should be required by law to live in abject poverty. Amiright? No not at all.. but I do believe it's a drain on the system where some could use that $ to get better help through the VA or put it towards other resources in that system. I think there should be some type of tapering down at some point. If you served I fully believe you should be entitled to something, just not 100% disability payments when you are still able to maintain normal life and a 150k+ job without issue. If they have 100% "legitimate" rating, there's a 100% chance they're dealing with issues they're not sharing with you. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:33:26 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This was initiated by the VA, not the FAA. Several years back, there was the big push regarding whether or not a Veteran was competent to handle finances. Vets who told examiners, "my wife does that" were ruled to be incompetent, and told they could no longer purchase firearms. It's hardly jumping the shark. Got a link? I’m almost willing to bet there’s more to it than “your wife handles the checkbook? You’re incompetent.” |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:48:58 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Got a link? I’m almost willing to bet there’s more to it than “your wife handles the checkbook? You’re incompetent.” I'll try to find one, but it resulted in actual guidance to VA employees to no longer infer the issue or determine a veteran to be incompetent if the examiner checked the box saying that they were, but explained in the box that the spouse handled the finances. Which is exactly what was happening and is still happening due to incompetence, maliciousness and just plain stupidity. The overall point being, that the bureaucracy will use this to fuck people over. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:49:52 AM EDT
[#40]
"The FAA used a risk-based approach to identify veterans whose medical conditions posed the greatest risk to safety..."
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:50:39 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Should've been done long ago, to be perfectly honest. How can you argue you're ok to fly a plane commercially (or otherwise) but you're 100% disabled?  An old partner of mine was 100% disabled from Vietnam. Yet he was a functioning DPD officer. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:54:06 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The FAA medical exams are a joke. Most issues pilots have are found by others like their PCPs. For non-commercial pilots if you are a sport pilot (think very small planes 2 passengers) you can fly with just a drivers license. They also initiated Basic Med several years ago which has a few restrictions over a class 3 but not really much. That is a physical by your PCP every 4 years. Since these relaxed standards were put in place there has been little effect on accident rate based on medical issues. I would also add that if you have enough time (willing to jump through hoops) and money (to get tested for things your insurance wont pay for) you can generally get a special issuance (SI) for almost any condition including say a heart attack. ETA: Pilots are supposed to do a self evaluation every time they fly. In my mind that is way more important than a quick physical from a doctor you had 6 months or a year ago. Would you rather your pilot be seeking medical attention when they need it and being treated or that they just lie or get what they need off the record to avoid the FAA paperwork and run around? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/giphyggt-462.gif You don't think it's because they have all passed a medical exam maybe, do ya? The FAA medical exams are a joke. Most issues pilots have are found by others like their PCPs. For non-commercial pilots if you are a sport pilot (think very small planes 2 passengers) you can fly with just a drivers license. They also initiated Basic Med several years ago which has a few restrictions over a class 3 but not really much. That is a physical by your PCP every 4 years. Since these relaxed standards were put in place there has been little effect on accident rate based on medical issues. I would also add that if you have enough time (willing to jump through hoops) and money (to get tested for things your insurance wont pay for) you can generally get a special issuance (SI) for almost any condition including say a heart attack. ETA: Pilots are supposed to do a self evaluation every time they fly. In my mind that is way more important than a quick physical from a doctor you had 6 months or a year ago. Would you rather your pilot be seeking medical attention when they need it and being treated or that they just lie or get what they need off the record to avoid the FAA paperwork and run around? I'm familiar with the aircraft world. Have had customers take a big step down to LSA because of a SO having lost their medical, have had coworkers who can no longer pass a medical... I also have had certification to do certain work requiring specific stress tests with EKGs hooked up. I've seen plenty of people pass it and their PCP find something to disqualify them and I've seen it go the other way just the same. Even had a friend pass both and go down with a heart attack at the grocery store. It doesn't make me think that one or the other is a joke necessary. It's just the system they created. Your question leads me to believe we feel the same way if a pilot is needing medical treatment they should get it whether it costs them a license or not. This thread is about the VA getting one story and the AME getting another. Some have told you're done and some have been told to go sort this shit out. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 8:55:30 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How does the VA allowing the FAA access to veterans medical records and diagnosis square with Hippa? .gov doesn’t have to follow .gov rules. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 9:04:05 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not a measure of disability, it's disability compensation. Good be one or two big things or a thousand little things adding to the 100 via VA math. 100% compensated isn't a big deal on it's own. Now when you go digging into the claimed conditions and see high percentages for specific conditions, there are people I wouldn't trust to be pilots, LE, or dog walking reddit mods. Look up 70 and 100 percent for mental conditions which includes PTSD in 38cfr-folks need to stick to cart wrangling at Walmart. I would love to see the methodology and adjudication processes they are using. Ultra slippery slope though. Odds that the next three letter agency to use it is the ATF... Blame the military out processing counselors that pushed everybody to sign up for everything they can think of, PTSD if you deployed even if you never left a base, bad back and knee because you had pain once or twice and maybe you will have trouble down the road, hearing claims. I used to talk to a counselor at a bar and he would tell me all their methods to get the most for a soldier. It reeked of fraud. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 9:04:26 AM EDT
[#45]
VA should never have called it a disability rating. It causes confusion in people not familiar with the process. They should change the name to something like “Limitation rating”.
As far as flying goes, the biggest thing I could see guys hiding are sleep, heart and mental issues. Those three will generally get your license. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 9:04:30 AM EDT
[#46]
I don’t think this is about double dipping. I think it’s about not reporting your disability on the FAA Medical form you fill out every time you get your medical.
Hopefully, it’s a fine and new medical and they’re back flying. |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 9:09:29 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can bet there is more to come on this front… Yup, been wanting to use the VA stuff to deny gun ownership since Iraq at least. Ptsd? Your wife handles your finances? No guns for you ! Actual homeless, violent felon whos legit crazy and packing a stolen gun…. Well,that man has rights ! |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 9:10:22 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How does the VA allowing the FAA access to veterans medical records and diagnosis square with Hippa? You mean how does the government justify sharing information with the government? |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 9:13:33 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: PTSD + ATF = no guns for vets |
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Posted: 8/29/2023 9:14:23 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The government needs to weed out the SSDI scammers and Welfare fraudsters first.  AGREED! |
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