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Posted: 10/23/2017 6:44:31 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Question: If the government did get it's way and get a public key to all the things, how long would it take for that key to be published on Wikileaks? Days? Months?  Never believe a word the gov’t says. The founding fathers understood this and that’s why our Constitution is written the way it is. |
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Posted: 10/23/2017 7:18:00 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Question: If the government did get it's way and get a public key to all the things, how long would it take for that key to be published on Wikileaks? Days? Months? |
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Posted: 10/23/2017 7:18:20 PM EST
[#3]
Another "The Constitution is getting in my way" whines.
I'm a LOT more worried about the FBI and their ilk than "terrorists". |
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Posted: 10/23/2017 7:27:28 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good. |
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Posted: 10/23/2017 10:21:42 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The government already has a search warrant for the data in question in this case. Microsoft is trying to not comply with the warrant by saying that the data (of the US person) is currently being stored in a server based oversees (Ireland, if I recall correctly). The government is arguing that the data is still "controlled" by Microsoft (by any reasonable definition of the term) and should be subject to the warrant. |
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Posted: 10/23/2017 10:29:58 PM EST
[#6]
I love how people get so riled up over the government wanting to peek in their devices, but are willfully complacent or downright ignorant of the fact that your devices and all the apps on them are streaming data about them to private corporations and individuals constantly. Paying for the privilege of giving your personal data away so someone can profit from it is fine and dandy, but when the .gov wants to try and find pedos and terrorizers the same way it's all OMGWTFBBQ. And sure, the government will not always do what is best for you, but a profit based corporation will NEVER do what is best for you
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Posted: 10/23/2017 10:56:20 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love how people get so riled up over the government wanting to peek in their devices, but are willfully complacent or downright ignorant of the fact that your devices and all the apps on them are streaming data about them to private corporations and individuals constantly. Paying for the privilege of giving your personal data away so someone can profit from it is fine and dandy, but when the .gov wants to try and find pedos and terrorizers the same way it's all OMGWTFBBQ. And sure, the government will not always do what is best for you, but a profit based corporation will NEVER do what is best for you
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Posted: 10/23/2017 11:11:19 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What are you talking about? People complain all the time about Windows 10 and the other bullshit companies use for spying. This thread is about the new head of the FBI whining about encryption. That's why we're complaining about the government. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I love how people get so riled up over the government wanting to peek in their devices, but are willfully complacent or downright ignorant of the fact that your devices and all the apps on them are streaming data about them to private corporations and individuals constantly. Paying for the privilege of giving your personal data away so someone can profit from it is fine and dandy, but when the .gov wants to try and find pedos and terrorizers the same way it's all OMGWTFBBQ. And sure, the government will not always do what is best for you, but a profit based corporation will NEVER do what is best for you |
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Posted: 10/23/2017 11:45:45 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh look you're bringing #Pizzagate into yet another thread.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hey FBI, there's a whole nest of Pedos in Hollywood and DC. They're pretty open about it too. Doubt you'd have to do any hackerman stuff to catch them. Go catch those guys and we'll talk. P.S. The answer will still be no you statist fucks. Pot, kettle. 
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Posted: 10/23/2017 11:52:56 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And unless you plan on making certain applications of math illegal (I'll print them on a t-shirt if I have to - that's always fun), . 
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Posted: 10/24/2017 9:13:53 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love how people get so riled up over the government wanting to peek in their devices, but are willfully complacent or downright ignorant of the fact that your devices and all the apps on them are streaming data about them to private corporations and individuals constantly. Paying for the privilege of giving your personal data away so someone can profit from it is fine and dandy, but when the .gov wants to try and find pedos and terrorizers the same way it's all OMGWTFBBQ. And sure, the government will not always do what is best for you, but a profit based corporation will NEVER do what is best for you |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 9:16:22 AM EST
[#12]
The scary part is listening to the ex-NSA people talking about how easy it is to compromise the person instead of the encryption. Therein lies the real problem with the consumer grade offerings. Most people don't understand it well enough to know how they can be compromised even when they use encryption.
The human element is the weakest link. |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 9:43:05 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The scary part is listening to the ex-NSA people talking about how easy it is to compromise the person instead of the encryption. Therein lies the real problem with the consumer grade offerings. Most people don't understand it well enough to know how they can be compromised even when they use encryption. The human element is the weakest link. |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 9:46:35 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good. |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 11:11:53 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good. |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 1:13:45 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I feel like maybe you don't understand. Even with search warrants, not some covert FBI tin foil CRAP, the information is not being able to be retrieved. This isn't some mass conspiracy, these are child molestors taking pics of you or your neighbors kids, these are drug dealers. Many of them have already been charged but the info for further prosecution can't be received........ask me how I know after busting an auto theft ring 
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Posted: 10/24/2017 1:35:05 PM EST
[#17]
You can't decrypt the signal Mal.
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Posted: 10/24/2017 1:47:28 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess there in lies the communication breakdown. I am not advocating lesser quality data encryption for the consumer! I fully support the best data encryption available to the consumer but as someone who isn't tech savvy, I can't help but think apple could create a program or internal software to retrieve the encrypted data for law enforcement upon issuance of a search warrant. "We're from the government and we're here to help". |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 1:59:48 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good. |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 2:01:44 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey FBI, there's a whole nest of Pedos in Hollywood and DC. They're pretty open about it too. Doubt you'd have to do any hackerman stuff to catch them. Go catch those guys and we'll talk. P.S. The answer will still be no you statist fucks. |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 2:05:29 PM EST
[#21]
1. I doubt it.
2. If true, good. |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 2:25:18 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess there in lies the communication breakdown. I am not advocating lesser quality data encryption for the consumer! I fully support the best data encryption available to the consumer but as someone who isn't tech savvy, I can't help but think apple could create a program or internal software to retrieve the encrypted data for law enforcement upon issuance of a search warrant. As for the technical side, once there's a hole in there program, there's a hole. If you're at all familiar with how things work (OPM, Snowden, Manning, Russian and Chinese IP theft, etc.), you know that such a "back door" capability in the hands of LE and the IC would pose an unmanageable threat to the effectiveness of its security. It either works, or it doesn't and can't be trusted. And then folks outside the U.S. can come up with alternatives not subject to U.S. law. Then what? Encryption is basic privacy. That should be enough. |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 2:29:22 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are a couple facts at play here. One is that the widespread use of effective encryption creates a very real and valid concern for law enforcement and the intelligence community. That's a real thing. However, the other side of that issue refers to the value of effective encryption to the average person, or U.S. citizen. Frankly, and despite the nuisance (understated) created by encryption in official venues when a proper warrant allows access to information which cannot be retrieved, the tie (and I don't think it's even close to a tie) should go in favor of the person exercising rights to privacy, and that privacy is very, very seldom with regard to legitimate government action, but a hedge against criminals of interest to government entities already troubled by the encryption problem to begin with. Said another way, encryption is mostly effective at preventing issues otherwise of interest to LE. Well, if LE had time to worry about it, that is. As for the technical side, once there's a hole in there program, there's a hole. If you're at all familiar with how things work (OPM, Snowden, Manning, Russian and Chinese IP theft, etc.), you know that such a "back door" capability in the hands of LE and the IC would pose an unmanageable threat to the effectiveness of its security. It either works, or it doesn't and can't be trusted. And then folks outside the U.S. can come up with alternatives not subject to U.S. law. Then what? Encryption is basic privacy. That should be enough.
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Posted: 10/24/2017 2:47:19 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude, I already said "good".
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Posted: 10/24/2017 2:50:29 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just pointing out that the answer doesn't like in single-scope thinking. |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 3:11:03 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are a couple facts at play here. One is that the widespread use of effective encryption creates a very real and valid concern for law enforcement and the intelligence community. That's a real thing. However, the other side of that issue refers to the value of effective encryption to the average person, or U.S. citizen. Frankly, and despite the nuisance (understated) created by encryption in official venues when a proper warrant allows access to information which cannot be retrieved, the tie (and I don't think it's even close to a tie) should go in favor of the person exercising rights to privacy, and that privacy is very, very seldom with regard to legitimate government action, but a hedge against criminals of interest to government entities already troubled by the encryption problem to begin with. Said another way, encryption is mostly effective at preventing issues otherwise of interest to LE. Well, if LE had time to worry about it, that is. As for the technical side, once there's a hole in there program, there's a hole. If you're at all familiar with how things work (OPM, Snowden, Manning, Russian and Chinese IP theft, etc.), you know that such a "back door" capability in the hands of LE and the IC would pose an unmanageable threat to the effectiveness of its security. It either works, or it doesn't and can't be trusted. And then folks outside the U.S. can come up with alternatives not subject to U.S. law. Then what? Encryption is basic privacy. That should be enough. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I guess there in lies the communication breakdown. I am not advocating lesser quality data encryption for the consumer! I fully support the best data encryption available to the consumer but as someone who isn't tech savvy, I can't help but think apple could create a program or internal software to retrieve the encrypted data for law enforcement upon issuance of a search warrant. As for the technical side, once there's a hole in there program, there's a hole. If you're at all familiar with how things work (OPM, Snowden, Manning, Russian and Chinese IP theft, etc.), you know that such a "back door" capability in the hands of LE and the IC would pose an unmanageable threat to the effectiveness of its security. It either works, or it doesn't and can't be trusted. And then folks outside the U.S. can come up with alternatives not subject to U.S. law. Then what? Encryption is basic privacy. That should be enough. |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 3:28:48 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is this their way of demanding access via back doors? |
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Posted: 11/8/2017 3:32:21 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope. Doesn't work that way. The content is still encrypted even if you make a bit for bit copy of the Flash Rom. It can only be read and decrypted by the SAME serialized CPU that wrote it, AND still requires the correct password as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
just clone the phone The content is still encrypted even if you make a bit for bit copy of the Flash Rom. It can only be read and decrypted by the SAME serialized CPU that wrote it, AND still requires the correct password as well. |
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Posted: 11/10/2017 5:31:03 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love how people get so riled up over the government wanting to peek in their devices, but are willfully complacent or downright ignorant of the fact that your devices and all the apps on them are streaming data about them to private corporations and individuals constantly. Paying for the privilege of giving your personal data away so someone can profit from it is fine and dandy, but when the .gov wants to try and find pedos and terrorizers the same way it's all OMGWTFBBQ. And sure, the government will not always do what is best for you, but a profit based corporation will NEVER do what is best for you Plenty of us make effort to keep ourselves secure. Regardless, the primary difference here between private and public is voluntarism. |
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Posted: 11/10/2017 5:40:17 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is this their way of demanding access via back doors? |
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Posted: 11/11/2017 5:20:00 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We virtualize OS and Apps...why not Flash/ROM (which we kinda do already) and hardware. I would not be surprise if the FBI/NSA has a system to pull the serialized CPU info and then just virtualize it with a crack wrapper so that they can do a constant brute force attack on the password without the limits of lockouts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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just clone the phone The content is still encrypted even if you make a bit for bit copy of the Flash Rom. It can only be read and decrypted by the SAME serialized CPU that wrote it, AND still requires the correct password as well. |
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Posted: 11/11/2017 5:24:29 PM EST
[#32]
Well isn't that a fucking shame
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Posted: 11/11/2017 11:25:04 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I feel like maybe you don't understand. Even with search warrants, not some covert FBI tin foil CRAP, the information is not being able to be retrieved. This isn't some mass conspiracy, these are child molestors taking pics of you or your neighbors kids, these are drug dealers. Many of them have already been charged but the info for further prosecution can't be received........ask me how I know after busting an auto theft ring I do pay all my bills from my phone I bank on my phone I have my credit cards linked on my phone. I depend on encryption to protect myself from criminals not just from the stupid criminals but from the technology savvy criminals who want to steal my identity and my money. What your our asking me to do is have have my security compromised so that your job is easier and if my information is ever stolen you’ll investigate it. Thing is I maybe financially ruined but that not your problem and you don’t care so long as your job is easier. |
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Posted: 11/11/2017 11:37:08 PM EST
[#34]
Stupidity or ineptitude plays a large part in this I'm certain. Apple said today that the FBI has not yet asked for their help with the Texas church shooters phone, if they had, versus sending it to Quantico, Apple said they would have told them to use the shooters thumbprint. It's a moot point now, as after 48hrs the phone will ask for a password.
TOP MEN. Also, now you're claiming to be a secret squirrel phone cracker? A couple of months ago you alluded to being in the halls of Congress. Never in the history of Arfcom has someone chosen a more appropriate username, B_S, indeed. |
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Posted: 11/11/2017 11:39:07 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess there in lies the communication breakdown. I am not advocating lesser quality data encryption for the consumer! I fully support the best data encryption available to the consumer but as someone who isn't tech savvy, I can't help but think apple could create a program or internal software to retrieve the encrypted data for law enforcement upon issuance of a search warrant. Its not a hard concept to understand. Based off your name it looks like you work for dc metro 6th district vice and by your comments I think it’s safe to assume you’re a LEO. So how would you feel if you’re encrypted networks has a built in back door which a tech savvy group of criminals were able to crack and pass around so that other criminals know were officers are and can listen to your tac channels so they can prepare an ambush when you go to raid them. This would endanger officers and compromiseing my encrypted would endanger me. Not to mention foreign governments with unlimited resources building tools to exploit the back door and harming the nation financially. |
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Posted: 11/11/2017 11:42:32 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stupidity or ineptitude plays a large part in this I'm certain. Apple said today that the FBI has not yet asked for their help with the Texas church shooters phone, if they had, versus sending it to Quantico, Apple said they would have told them to use the shooters thumbprint. It's a moot point now, as after 48hrs the phone will ask for a password. TOP MEN. Also, now you're claiming to be a secret squirrel phone cracker? A couple of months ago you alluded to being in the halls of Congress. Never in the history of Arfcom has someone chosen a more appropriate username, B_S, indeed. His only purpose here is to troll us and disrupt our forum |
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Posted: 11/11/2017 11:55:38 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Know how I know you don't really understand encryption? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you're requiring him to use cryptographically insecure code (backdoors qualify) by law, then yes you are. |
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Posted: 11/11/2017 11:59:32 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The scary part is listening to the ex-NSA people talking about how easy it is to compromise the person instead of the encryption. Therein lies the real problem with the consumer grade offerings. Most people don't understand it well enough to know how they can be compromised even when they use encryption. The human element is the weakest link. 
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Posted: 11/12/2017 12:02:23 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<snip> As for the technical side, once there's a hole in there program, there's a hole. If you're at all familiar with how things work (OPM, Snowden, Manning, Russian and Chinese IP theft, etc.), you know that such a "back door" capability in the hands of LE and the IC would pose an unmanageable threat to the effectiveness of its security. It either works, or it doesn't and can't be trusted. And then folks outside the U.S. can come up with alternatives not subject to U.S. law. Then what? Encryption is basic privacy. That should be enough. |
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Posted: 11/12/2017 12:06:43 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love how people get so riled up over the government wanting to peek in their devices, but are willfully complacent or downright ignorant of the fact that your devices and all the apps on them are streaming data about them to private corporations and individuals constantly. Paying for the privilege of giving your personal data away so someone can profit from it is fine and dandy, but when the .gov wants to try and find pedos and terrorizers the same way it's all OMGWTFBBQ. And sure, the government will not always do what is best for you, but a profit based corporation will NEVER do what is best for you
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Posted: 11/12/2017 12:31:21 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, now you're claiming to be a secret squirrel phone cracker? A couple of months ago you alluded to being in the halls of Congress. Never in the history of Arfcom has someone chosen a more appropriate username, B_S, indeed. |
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Posted: 11/12/2017 12:39:02 AM EST
[#42]
I totally believe the FBI and all the BS that certain insiders bring here.
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Posted: 11/12/2017 12:39:44 AM EST
[#43]
fpni
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Posted: 11/12/2017 12:45:03 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will ask the computer savvy guys, is truecrypt using a hidden container still safe? Im talking 7.0 and below. Never any guarantees though - never know what new breaks might have been found and not published. |
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Posted: 11/12/2017 12:46:38 AM EST
[#45]
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Truecrypt was never authorized. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ok, I know for some things our G2 IMO Officer had to have copies of our truecrypt passwords for reg and hidden containers. If the above was true why would they need our passwords for our containers on the gov laptops? If they could access them why would they need our password? |
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Posted: 11/12/2017 12:48:44 AM EST
[#46]
Good on one hand because no one wants too much government overreach. On the other hand you want them to access the data in some situations. For instance, to catch a child molester or a no shit terrorist. Can't have one without the other though. All or nothing.
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Posted: 11/12/2017 12:51:26 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess there in lies the communication breakdown. I am not advocating lesser quality data encryption for the consumer! I fully support the best data encryption available to the consumer but as someone who isn't tech savvy, I can't help but think apple could create a program or internal software to retrieve the encrypted data for law enforcement upon issuance of a search warrant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you're requiring him to use cryptographically insecure code (backdoors qualify) by law, then yes you are. |
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Posted: 11/12/2017 12:54:32 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
no Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I will ask the computer savvy guys, is truecrypt using a hidden container still safe? Im talking 7.0 and below. |
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Posted: 11/12/2017 1:05:52 AM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good.
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Posted: 11/12/2017 1:14:04 AM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Technology is binary. People are stupid. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The scary part is listening to the ex-NSA people talking about how easy it is to compromise the person instead of the encryption. Therein lies the real problem with the consumer grade offerings. Most people don't understand it well enough to know how they can be compromised even when they use encryption. The human element is the weakest link. 
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