I know that there are a lot of opioid users on this forum for long term chronic pain who feel as though they need their meds for every day functioning, which may very well be true, but that is a byproduct of using a drug which should not have been approved for long term use.

This was on 60 Minutes last night and the facts around the case are rather frank.  The gist is that big Pharma bought their way in to the FDA and had the labeling changed from short term use to long term use, where there is no scientific testing or data to support the long term use of drugs like Oxycontin as being safe or effective.  On the contrary, the testing has proven the exact opposite.

Is The FDA at Fault?

These lawsuits are quite different than the other class action lawsuits across the country in that it is going after the FDA, rather than just trying to get a payout from big Pharma.

Many fucks be upon them.

So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

Oh, 60 minutes, known for putting out fake news.  I did not know they were still broadcasting.  I gave up on them a couple of decades ago.

Because 60 minutes is my go-to for the straight scoop.

It's a federal lawsuit with extremely clear cut documentation, as well as the former head of the FDA stating exactly what happened and that it should not have happened.

The whole "opioid crisis" is another stupid left-wing manufactured propaganda piece foisted on the ill-informed and dimwitted by the Democrat Party. It's no different than them focusing on firearms instead of the underlying problem (bad people doing bad stuff). The underlying problem [in the "opioid crisis"] is addiction. If you eliminated all opioids today the addicts would just transition to something else (more than likely meth, cocaine, alcohol, etc.). People need to stop being so gullible and focusing on the inanimate "thing" and instead focus on the underlying behavior.

See post below;

I know from previous threads here in GD that there are shit ton of GD members that consume massive amounts of pain meds, and there have even been a couple suicide threads that involved members in extreme pain who were still taking opioids.

OP begs the question.

Get government out of medicine.

This.  "Is the FDA at fault" is the kind of mindset that caused me to go to the pharmacy yesterday and not be able to refill a prescription until this morning.  Because it's scheduled (not an opiate) and I have 4 pills left.  

If I travel toward the end of a bottle, I'll need to secure "special authorization" from my Dr to get a refill a few days early.

Fucking idiocy.

This inanimate thing was prescribed by doctors, and patients were told how to take it. Some patients followed exactly what was told to them, and thanks to these new laws have to go to"pain management buildings" vs getting a RX directly from their physician. So who gained from that change? You have an interesting jumping point from someone taking their medicine as they trusted their medical professionals, to taking meth as a next step?

Anything on 60 minutes is not honestly represented, whether you're for it, against it, whatever.   They're not in the biz of being thorough and honest, they're in the business of doing hit pieces.

Narcotics are a mixed bag.  Nearly everyone I know that's been on them long-term (or even medium term) has become addicted, and I've seen lives and families completely messed up from them.   And long-term, they don't work terribly well unless you're dedicated enough to do the cycles with/without/whatever to avoid resistance and addiction, and most people can't/won't do that.  I've also seen someone go septic, and need intestinal re-sectioning because the long-term use of narcotics associated with a failed knee transplant caused their intestines to not pass things along, which is a known and not-uncommon side effect.   At the same time, I'm not sure that I'd want to deny them to people with chronic pain.   When you're hurting that badly, it's hard to say "no relief for you".   Kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

And in before the "but muh pain pills, you don't understand!!!!" asshats that chimed in last time I made a comment, I recently had a very successful surgery, and for the first time in over a decade, I'm not in constant, daily pain any more.   During that decade, I specifically did NOT use narcotics more than a handful of times, even though they were readily available to me.   I've seen too many people's lives ruined, and by the time I'd know if I was strong enough or not, it might be too late.   I'm not going to deny you guys the right to take them if you want, but please don't think that I'm judging from a position of ignorance.

Honestly, this is one of the larger reasons I believe in legal pot.   For the people whose pain can be managed by pot, it's about a thousand times better for them, their family, and society than them taking narcotics.

Finally, about big pharma:   Pharma got it labeled for long-term.   Docs prescribed it.   People wanted it.   It's hard to see the blame being only on one party's side.    Every person I know who was on narcotics more than short-term was on them because they WANTED them, not because they were pushed or forced on them.   And I can remember people talking about how pain pills were addictive 40+ years ago, so it's not like this is some new revelation.

The deal with oxycontin, which was genuine, was that it makes abuse more difficult. It is a time-release oxycodone tablet made in such a way that it can't (at least not easily) be chewed, dissolved, ground up, et c. Doing those things releases the full dose immediately, which gives the buzz that abusers are after.

On one hand I feel like if I break my toe and need a few norco for a week I shouldn't have to ask uncle sugar for permission. On the other I personally know someone who got a bottle of lortabs after wisdom tooth surgery and it literally destroyed his life and family. Full blown heroin addict a few years later.

Your point?

Better to have them off themselves sooner because the pain is unbearable?

Here's an idea. People take what they want to take or what their doctor (who should not have to worry about the government playing nanny) advises them to take.

Everyone can make believe they're an adult and do what they want with their own body and not worry about what some other adult does with their own body.

A novel concept, I know. Personal responsibility, liberty, and freedom.

+1.  I have a 3mm disc hernation into my spinal cord (which is very minor) at C5-C6.  Never had to take opiates but I’ve taken enough OTC pain meds o where it would have been a tossup as to which is worse for me.  And it’s a mild herniation - and it really impacts quality of life (ability to sleep well, ability to turn my neck without having a shoulder spasm).  Can’t imagine the pain some folks have walking around with 11mm+ protrusions into their spinal cord must have to deal with.

Because of "the meth crisis" the government won't let me buy two different cold medications for my girlfriend so she can see which works better for her.

Heaven forbid she opt for one daytime and one nighttime formula.

So many examples of the government ruining medicine for our own "safety".

Dr's prescribe them based partly on the labeling though, so as noted with posters above, they are told, "keep shoveling these pills in your mouth".

If anyone caused this it was the Joint Commission with their “pain is the 5th vital sign” nonsense.

60 Minutes?  The same folks who report how most gun owners support more laws for gun control & removing assault weapons from ownership...

That 60 Minutes?

I prefer to get medical information from peer reviewed papers & apply them to my practice, but even the “peer review” process is under scrutiny.

They are prescription drugs.

60 Minutes.

Without even watching it, the content is automatically suspect.

I know several people who have used opiods for a long time with good palliative effect.  There was no alternative offered that would have alleviated the chronic pain they suffered from a variety of manageable, but not treatable conditions.

The factors leading to their success include:

Understanding the medications do not eliminate their pain, but reduce it to a level that it is not debilitating;

Adhering to the prescription (e.g., if it says take every eight hours, they take it every eight hours);

Adhering to the requirements of their pain management contract that (paraphrased) says "no booze, no pot, no other drugs that we don't know about, including OTCs"; and

Following a routine of trying alternative medications to see if there is a better palliative effect.

One was my sister, who had moderately advanced MS.  She and her palliative care docs did all of the above.  Finally they settled on methadone of all things. We worked an agreement with Kaiser that allowed me to pick up her monthly box of meds, that included a huge bottle of methadone tablets. Over the course of two decades she took them as prescribed and it provided good palliative effect.

I also know a person who would have benefited from access to opiods, but because opiods were the boogeyman in the 1980s, relied on a fifth of Johnny Walker a night to get relief from what I now believe was a blown disc that was pressing on his spinal cord.  The effect of that much booze was far worse, IMO, than the effect of prescribed opiods.

There are a shit load of peer reviewed papers that say that they shouldn't have been approved and labeled safe for long term use.  

Maybe the doctor and patient believe that to be in the best interest of the patient?

Attached File


Its 2 disks but yeah. "I can write you a scrip for 800mg Ibuprofen and a few muscle relaxers."  You mean the shit I can buy OTC and take 4 of?  Thanks, want me to hydrate and change my socks?  I feel like the silver bullet is firmly in place.

Steroid shots help a while. Finally got Neurontin. Can't tell that it helps. Steroid shots costs me $500.00 out of pocket per shot and it's killing my bank account.

A hand full of cheap opioids would be a God send.

Well, you should get a medical marijuana script—it fixes everything I hear—male pattern baldness, chronic pain, asthma, MS, MD, financial independence, etc, etc.

Ignore the data about cannibinoid hyperemesis syndrome & impaired driving—it does EVERYTHING!  The FDA said so....

OP, are you changing your avatar every post?

No Dr is required to shovel limitless pills to anyone, they can make their own call, and its up to the patient to not be a complete moron.

Did I make it in before Arfcom's corporate dicksucker brigade tells us how awesome regulatory capture and patent abuse is?

So, your against pot needles?

You don't think doctors know what opioids do to a person before the government telling them? LOL

You still haven't given your alternative to treatment of permanent and severe pain.

This is right up there with African countries refusing GMO corn for their starving masses because someone may get sick.

It's worse then this even. My wife manages a neurosurgeon practice and pharmacy's are refusing to fill scripts even after surgeries as written by the Doc's.

My FIl who has been on opiates for over a decade due to 5 hip replacements and a knee replacement was cut cold turkey.  He never abused them, never asked for more. They let him live a more normal life because I just saw him the other day and he is in tremendous amounts of pain. The doc said unless have cancer or on hospice you ain't getting narcotics.

I have 2 herniated discs so I do understand the pain that they bring.  I have fortunately been on an excellent management program thanks to my physical therapist, and have forgone long term narcotics use AND surgery, both of which I was told were my options.

If a physical therapy management program does not work for you, then I don't know what the answer is other than surgery, which I would MUCH prefer over taken oxy all day every day.

I'm trying to change it to jesus riding a dinosaur but it keeps showing up as my dog on my computer.  What does it show now?

Keep reading.  Addiction sure as shit isn't the answer, and to be honest, I don't know how you deal with the constipation anyway.  Oh, more drugs.  Really, I know the pain, the most embarrassing times in my life were either crawl to the bathroom in pain or piss the bed.  It sucks.

That might encourage someone to start killin' folks he figures needs it.

Just so long as you admit you wish to enforce your ideals and values on everyone else because of your experiences and opinions.

Reminds me of a couple other groups we deal with.

Your sample size of one settles it then

What if someone has surgery, and afterward still has pain that interferes with their ability to live a normal life?  What then?

On a site where we all bitch and moan about the fear the left has about irresponsible use of an inanimate object.....here we are.

It's not uncommon for docs to not write them if you've been on them long term.   Normally, instead of just saying "sucks to be you", however, they'll refer you to a pain clinic.   The pain clinics will try and work with you on alternatives, but if alternatives don't work, they will still prescribe opioids, and they're often willing to write for more/stronger opioids than a GP would feel comfortable with.   Pain and narcotics are starting to become their own specialty.

But man.... if you're on hospice, the narcotics can flow like they were a river during spring runoff.

The main problem is a piece of disk (L5/S1 or L4/L5 can't remember which is which) that detached is pressing on the nerve that feeds my left leg.  It hurts from my back all the way into my ankle.  They say its going re-absorb and get better. The steroids reduce inflammation for a while and helps, for a while.

I'm told therapy would most likely not help much in this particular instance.  That would also run my bill up.  A $30.00 copay 3X a week is about $500.00 a month instead of every 2 months for the injections.
 I'm wouldn't want to take it all day every day.  Sure would be nice to be able to sleep though.

Or make legit street addicts out of them. Every person and I do mean every person I know that had opiate scrips have been cut cold turkey.  We are talking about people with some real pain issues and OTC and Phys Rehab ain't going to help.

My wife had a post op patient  in her office in tears because they refused to refill a script and cut her cold turkey from Percocet and she had been in withdrawals from opiates for 4 days before her office and the pharmacy got squared away.

There are a few other things to blame as well... DEA, war in Afghanistan, and certain doctors.

So do you prefer to take drugs over exploring other options?  Which other options have you explored?  You are extremely defensive about having your drugs taken away, and again, I understand it with pain management.

Then that is a different story then.  As of now, they are a prescription drug, controlled by the FDA, and heavily prescribed for long term use by dr's do to FDA labeling the drug as safe for long term use, which goes against nearly every study in existence.

If we want to freedom everything, I'm on board and always have been.

More than a few people have turned to heroin when they found it was easier and cheaper to get than their prescription pain meds.