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Posted: 5/27/2022 12:55:29 PM EST
[#1]
United States Army machinegun trivia: the service's machinegun expertise resides in the Army National Guard. They host annual regional and national machinegun matches at the Winston P. Wilson National Guard Championships. If your unit is not National Guard (i.e., you are Regular Army or Reserve, Marines or Marine Reserve, other service, or allies from overseas) you shoot concurrently on the same ranges, at the same time, in the Armed Forces Skill-at-Arms Meeting Championships -- you have no excuse for not shooting for bragging rights.
Active Army officers and Soldiers (particularly senior NCOs) usually lose their minds when they read this, as most will have never heard of the matches (or get - give command support to train teams to participate).           2018 Winston P. Wilson Machine Gun Championship Day One  2018 Winston P. Wilson Machine Gun Championship - Day Two  2018 Winston P. Wilson Machine Gun Championship - Day Three  2018 Winston P. Wilson Machine Gun Championship - Day Four  2018 Winston P. Wilson Machine Gun Championships |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 1:03:10 PM EST
[#2]
Why do we still use the Ma Deuce?
Because it’s heavy and lasts forever(with proper headspace and timing). The grunt just has to break their backs and let the superb care at the VA take care of them(sarcasm). |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 1:08:07 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that a titanium receiver? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The MAG58 is better overall though, and the weight issue can be dealt with. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/135411/Ksp58DF_jpg-2398855.JPG No, I wish we had that. With a Ti receiver it would be just about perfect. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 1:09:57 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well that's certainly a different setup. What's the weight on that? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The PKM isn't a bad gun, as long as you accept the Soviet design philosophy behind it. The MAG58 is better overall though, and the weight issue can be dealt with. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/135411/Ksp58DF_jpg-2398855.JPG Well that's certainly a different setup. What's the weight on that? Overall it's about 3kg lighter than our standard version, but the handling is lightyears ahead. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 1:32:21 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is/was the fix? I terminate my belts with snap caps to avoid bolt deformation. good idea. (for a non-combat use gun)  the problem with the gun is that the bolt channel increases pitch (think rifling pitch) this means that the bolt ALWAYS crashes into the channel. it is meant to increase the bolt velocity in closing for reliability. the bolts are VERY hard, and so they chip corners and break. remedy is to round the broken part off (if no more than 1/3 of the bolt is missing!! using emery cloth. so bolt replacements are common. red tagged and off to depot |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 1:32:30 PM EST
[#6]
When the British first adopted the MAG-58, they also adopted the aircraft version.
The standard aircraft version had an aluminum rear receiver block and this was always a point f failure and needed frequent replacement. The British didn't want two rear receiver blocks in inventory, so instead of the standard infantry steel rear block, the British used the breakage prone aluminum rear block in all of their MAG-58's. The M249 had its bolt rail rivets come loose in fewer rounds than the M240. This required more frequent rebuilding by FN, than the M240. The FN repair for loose M249 bolt rail rivets, was to rivet new rails and since the rivet holes in the receiver were stretched, the rails were also TIG welded to the receiver, with stainless steel weld filler, to avoid weld cracks, welding the heat treated steel parts. Later and currently, FN both rivets and stainless steel TIG welds bolt rails in both M249 and M240 receivers when new, to avoid the parts wearing loose. The welding used to be a repair for the M249, but became standard assembly for new M249 and M240 weapons. The welding was never really needed for the M240, but since it extends the life of the M249, it was also added to the M240 construction, to help it last even longer. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 1:46:30 PM EST
[#7]
When NATO adopted 7.62, West Germany did a bunch of testing and found that in the machine gun role, the 8mm had a more effective range, by 200 meters.
West Germany wanted to keep their machine guns in 8mm, but at that time, NATO wouldn't allow West Germany to do that. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 2:19:10 PM EST
[#8]
Quoted: When NATO adopted 7.62, West Germany did a bunch of testing and found that in the machine gun role, the 8mm had a more effective range, by 200 meters. West Germany wanted to keep their machine guns in 8mm, but at that time, NATO wouldn't allow West Germany to do that. Kinda hard to standardize if everybody wants to keep there ammo Plus in Europe, 200 extra meters is not a game changer. Going to 7.62 was the correct call at that time. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 6:59:13 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: remedy is to round the broken part off (if no more than 1/3 of the bolt is missing!! using emery cloth. So you literally helped write that part of the TM? Pretty cool. You wouldn't happen to have the M60E3 specific manuals on PDF would you? They don't seem to be floating around on the net (the Navy ones). Is there any particular grease you'd recommend lubing the bolt lugs with to prolong their service life? I've been using Lubriplate but if there's one better I'd love to hear about it. Edit with designators for the PDFs I can't find: M60E3: SW-361-AA-MMI-0/M60E3 TM 02705E-10/1 M60E4 (MK43 Mod 0): SW370-XX-MMO-010 SW370-AJ-OPI-010 |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 7:15:45 PM EST
[#10]
Fellow combat vets on page 1 already said all that there is to say. The 240 is an outstanding Machine gun.
I'm real excited about the new MG that Special Operations got, though. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 7:20:32 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s the receiver that fails. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ten pounds of weight savings isn’t worth more maintenance? Parts can be replaced on schedule if armorers are doing their jobs. It’s the receiver that fails. And even as it fails it is Joe's fault.  Long live the 240. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 7:21:16 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then replace the receiver on an appropriate schedule? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It’s the receiver that fails. Then replace the receiver on an appropriate schedule? That is anathema. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 7:45:50 PM EST
[#13]
What a refreshing machine gun thread. This might be the first in GD I’ve seen where experienced users explain why the M240 series really is a beast and the PKM actually does have shortcomings.
I’ve carried the MK48, the M240B/L versions and plenty of PKMs on missions. I’ve never understood the mythical status people attribute to Russian machine guns. The PKM works. It’s not the best. It’s not durable. It’s typical Russian “good enough”. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 8:06:10 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, I've read about that previously. So you literally helped write that part of the TM? Pretty cool. You wouldn't happen to have the M60E3 specific manuals on PDF would you? They don't seem to be floating around on the net (the Navy ones). Is there any particular grease you'd recommend lubing the bolt lugs with to prolong their service life? I've been using Lubriplate but if there's one better I'd love to hear about it. Edit with designators for the PDFs I can't find: M60E3: SW-361-AA-MMI-0/M60E3 TM 02705E-10/1 M60E4 (MK43 Mod 0): SW370-XX-MMO-010 SW370-AJ-OPI-010 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: remedy is to round the broken part off (if no more than 1/3 of the bolt is missing!! using emery cloth. So you literally helped write that part of the TM? Pretty cool. You wouldn't happen to have the M60E3 specific manuals on PDF would you? They don't seem to be floating around on the net (the Navy ones). Is there any particular grease you'd recommend lubing the bolt lugs with to prolong their service life? I've been using Lubriplate but if there's one better I'd love to hear about it. Edit with designators for the PDFs I can't find: M60E3: SW-361-AA-MMI-0/M60E3 TM 02705E-10/1 M60E4 (MK43 Mod 0): SW370-XX-MMO-010 SW370-AJ-OPI-010 LSA, there is probably something better |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 8:08:29 PM EST
[#15]
Smells like a bravo cage in here.
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Posted: 5/27/2022 9:10:14 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: United States Army machinegun trivia: the service's machinegun expertise resides in the Army National Guard. They host annual regional and national machinegun matches at the Winston P. Wilson National Guard Championships. If your unit is not National Guard (i.e., you are Regular Army or Reserve, Marines or Marine Reserve, other service, or allies from overseas) you shoot concurrently on the same ranges, at the same time, in the concurrent Armed Forces Skill-at-Arms Meeting Championships -- you have no excuse for not shooting for bragging rights. Active Army officers and Soldiers (particularly senior NCOs) usually lose their minds when they read this, as most will have never heard of the matches (or get - give command support to train teams to participate). https://live.staticflickr.com/795/40834037814_0caff0a244_4k.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/893/39776328700_28d574eb98_4k.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/40847633003_ee42df1034_4k.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47745621722_8368632398_4k.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/40831614823_ebb669962e_3k.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33913804528_4fabb26969_4k.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/40831614983_ddd0ddc7f4_3k.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33913805128_df1023090c_4k.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/824/27634300608_f54452b88b_3k.jpg  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEpL7_BRw8E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mI9vK_R2-w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mRr1vQcZ3Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN98YXtjdms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgSXwJXWA6sAnd the Active Army and Marines hate that the NG (even AIR NG) beat them regularly at the AFSAM part of the WPW matches. Or even All Army. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 4:01:09 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When NATO adopted 7.62, West Germany did a bunch of testing and found that in the machine gun role, the 8mm had a more effective range, by 200 meters. West Germany wanted to keep their machine guns in 8mm, but at that time, NATO wouldn't allow West Germany to do that. When we adopted the MAG in 1958 we had them chambered in 6.5. They were gradually rechambered to 7.62 from the 60s onwards. We still had some linked 6.5 until the early 2000s. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 2:32:55 PM EST
[#18]
I loved the 240B, but damn it was a bitch to carry around. Air Force in all its brilliance considers MG's to be individual weapons, so I'd be lugging it, the spare barrel and 800 rds to feed it.
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Posted: 5/28/2022 2:52:22 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LSA, there is probably something better TW-25B grease for that. I use Weapons Shield as by go-to oil and add a dab to TW-25B to lugs, cam pins, hammer faces and sear engagement points. The .mil uses TW-25B for MK-19's IIRC. Still, it's impact and shock more than wear that generally kills 60 bolts as you well-described. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 2:52:56 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hate people who say where outgunned by the PKM. Just because their tracer burnout is longer does make our bullets stop at 900m. Still effective out to 3300m if you call see impact or understand ballistics. I've hit targets at 2500m from a 7.62mm Minigun. Same ammo and tracer burnout. Have to school them on plunging fire. CD Looking for schooling on some of the more technical aspects of employing fires. I have referenced MCTP 3-01C. and have some questions on the use of the M-17 plotting board. Thread I wanted to do some practical application, but it is super dry here and there are already a couple of active fires so I am holding off for more favorable conditions. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 4:52:56 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ten pounds of weight savings isn’t worth more maintenance? Parts can be replaced on schedule if armorers are doing their jobs. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There's a light weight 240L around now. The 240 is in my opinion the best GPMG ever made. The PKM eventually beats itself apart. Ten pounds of weight savings isn’t worth more maintenance? Parts can be replaced on schedule if armorers are doing their jobs. Not to me. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 5:06:30 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is heavy as fuck and that is the biggest downside. The pkm is the better weapon system for the grunt in the field. On a vehicle the 240 is great. You're smoking crack. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 5:17:03 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL No. The standard round for the PK/PKM is a 148.2 Grain bullet at 2,717 Ft per second The standard round for the M240 is a a 147 Grain bullet at 2,800 Ft per second They are nearly identical in terms of performance. Sure the Russian round looks slightly bigger but it is not more powerful. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Plus, the larger round fired by the PK hit with more authority and had longer range. YMMV. LOL No. The standard round for the PK/PKM is a 148.2 Grain bullet at 2,717 Ft per second The standard round for the M240 is a a 147 Grain bullet at 2,800 Ft per second They are nearly identical in terms of performance. Sure the Russian round looks slightly bigger but it is not more powerful. I decided to scroll down and see if anyone else saw that. People that know dick about guns telling us about guns. I've also been shot at by both. I swear you can hear the terrible quality control in the sounds PK rounds make whizzing by. ANA commandos shot at me with a 240 I maintained, I was like "that's sounds like a fuggin well oiled machine". |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 5:24:38 PM EST
[#24]
James Sullivan made every MG that doesn’t use constant-recoil obsolete in 1982 or so.
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Posted: 5/28/2022 6:02:15 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're smoking crack. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It is heavy as fuck and that is the biggest downside. The pkm is the better weapon system for the grunt in the field. On a vehicle the 240 is great. You're smoking crack. And who the fuck are you? If I'm smoking Crack you must be a fucking rocket scientist with lots of real world experience.  I've had the unfortunate experience of having been on the receiving end of accurate pkm fire on a few occasions. One I remeber vividly in the mountains of Afghanistan and walking down a mountain pass at night under nods and a taliban fighter opened up on us and dumped his whole belt without a hiccup on our infil. If it wasn't for a giant Boulder to seek cover behind and close air support we would of been fucked. I also vividly remember our mk48 gunners struggling and some times puking going up and down the same shitty mountains in full kit. I also carried the 240 through pre-ranger and exclusively throughout ranger school without a sling. That bitch sucks to carry. That is undeniable. My youngest brother was a marine machinegunner and humped that bitch in Afghanistan. His back and legs are fucked as well. The PKM is Kalashnikov's greatest weapon design. Relatively light weight and it fucking runs. Sand, dirt, no lube, abused, they run. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 6:03:37 PM EST
[#26]
If the MG ban goes away, I'm eating ramen to buy an M240.
Kharn |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 6:29:38 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: James Sullivan made every MG that doesn’t use constant-recoil obsolete in 1982 or so. Number of nations using constant recoil machine guns? It has niche uses in Automatic rifle roles. Anything requiring tripod or mounting it does nothing. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 6:34:36 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And who the fuck are you? If I'm smoking Crack you must be a fucking rocket scientist with lots of real world experience. I've had the unfortunate experience of having been on the receiving end of accurate pkm fire on a few occasions. One I remeber vividly in the mountains of Afghanistan and walking down a mountain pass at night under nods and a taliban fighter opened up on us and dumped his whole belt without a hiccup on our infil. If it wasn't for a giant Boulder to seek cover behind and close air support we would of been fucked. I also vividly remember our mk48 gunners struggling and some times puking going up and down the same shitty mountains in full kit. I also carried the 240 through pre-ranger and exclusively throughout ranger school without a sling. That bitch sucks to carry. That is undeniable. My youngest brother was a marine machinegunner and humped that bitch in Afghanistan. His back and legs are fucked as well. The PKM is Kalashnikov's greatest weapon design. Relatively light weight and it fucking runs. Sand, dirt, no lube, abused, they run. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It is heavy as fuck and that is the biggest downside. The pkm is the better weapon system for the grunt in the field. On a vehicle the 240 is great. You're smoking crack. And who the fuck are you? If I'm smoking Crack you must be a fucking rocket scientist with lots of real world experience. I've had the unfortunate experience of having been on the receiving end of accurate pkm fire on a few occasions. One I remeber vividly in the mountains of Afghanistan and walking down a mountain pass at night under nods and a taliban fighter opened up on us and dumped his whole belt without a hiccup on our infil. If it wasn't for a giant Boulder to seek cover behind and close air support we would of been fucked. I also vividly remember our mk48 gunners struggling and some times puking going up and down the same shitty mountains in full kit. I also carried the 240 through pre-ranger and exclusively throughout ranger school without a sling. That bitch sucks to carry. That is undeniable. My youngest brother was a marine machinegunner and humped that bitch in Afghanistan. His back and legs are fucked as well. The PKM is Kalashnikov's greatest weapon design. Relatively light weight and it fucking runs. Sand, dirt, no lube, abused, they run. I'm a machine gun scientist, not a rocket scientist. Your claim to fame is a leadership school, and your brother humped a machine gun? Tell us more about your "this one time" experiences? Quantify your, in your words, "extensive experience " on the PKM. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 6:38:44 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And who the fuck are you? He's the guy you want to be when you grow up. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 6:54:08 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm a machine gun scientist, not a rocket scientist. Your claim to fame is a leadership school, and your brother humped a machine gun? Tell us more about your "this one time" experiences? Quantify your, in your words, "extensive experience " on the PKM. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It is heavy as fuck and that is the biggest downside. The pkm is the better weapon system for the grunt in the field. On a vehicle the 240 is great. You're smoking crack. And who the fuck are you? If I'm smoking Crack you must be a fucking rocket scientist with lots of real world experience. I've had the unfortunate experience of having been on the receiving end of accurate pkm fire on a few occasions. One I remeber vividly in the mountains of Afghanistan and walking down a mountain pass at night under nods and a taliban fighter opened up on us and dumped his whole belt without a hiccup on our infil. If it wasn't for a giant Boulder to seek cover behind and close air support we would of been fucked. I also vividly remember our mk48 gunners struggling and some times puking going up and down the same shitty mountains in full kit. I also carried the 240 through pre-ranger and exclusively throughout ranger school without a sling. That bitch sucks to carry. That is undeniable. My youngest brother was a marine machinegunner and humped that bitch in Afghanistan. His back and legs are fucked as well. The PKM is Kalashnikov's greatest weapon design. Relatively light weight and it fucking runs. Sand, dirt, no lube, abused, they run. I'm a machine gun scientist, not a rocket scientist. Your claim to fame is a leadership school, and your brother humped a machine gun? Tell us more about your "this one time" experiences? Quantify your, in your words, "extensive experience " on the PKM. Your response says all I need to know with nothing but deflection bullshit. I was in 3D Ranger Battalion and worked with ANA Commando's in 07 and 09. They had their own issued weapons and no machinegun team. Your whole Ana commando story screams bullshit. If true you are obviously fucking retarded. Have fun internet warrior. It's 0300 here and I'm going to bed. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 6:56:32 PM EST
[#31]
Turns out the GPMGs are all just LMGs or MMGs that you can force into other roles against their will.
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Posted: 5/28/2022 7:02:50 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your response says all I need to know with nothing but deflection bullshit. I was in 3D Ranger Battalion and worked with ANA Commando's in 07 and 09. They had their own issued weapons and no machinegun team. Your whole Ana commando story screams bullshit. If true you are obviously fucking retarded. Have fun internet warrior. It's 0300 here and I'm going to bed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It is heavy as fuck and that is the biggest downside. The pkm is the better weapon system for the grunt in the field. On a vehicle the 240 is great. You're smoking crack. And who the fuck are you? If I'm smoking Crack you must be a fucking rocket scientist with lots of real world experience. I've had the unfortunate experience of having been on the receiving end of accurate pkm fire on a few occasions. One I remeber vividly in the mountains of Afghanistan and walking down a mountain pass at night under nods and a taliban fighter opened up on us and dumped his whole belt without a hiccup on our infil. If it wasn't for a giant Boulder to seek cover behind and close air support we would of been fucked. I also vividly remember our mk48 gunners struggling and some times puking going up and down the same shitty mountains in full kit. I also carried the 240 through pre-ranger and exclusively throughout ranger school without a sling. That bitch sucks to carry. That is undeniable. My youngest brother was a marine machinegunner and humped that bitch in Afghanistan. His back and legs are fucked as well. The PKM is Kalashnikov's greatest weapon design. Relatively light weight and it fucking runs. Sand, dirt, no lube, abused, they run. I'm a machine gun scientist, not a rocket scientist. Your claim to fame is a leadership school, and your brother humped a machine gun? Tell us more about your "this one time" experiences? Quantify your, in your words, "extensive experience " on the PKM. Your response says all I need to know with nothing but deflection bullshit. I was in 3D Ranger Battalion and worked with ANA Commando's in 07 and 09. They had their own issued weapons and no machinegun team. Your whole Ana commando story screams bullshit. If true you are obviously fucking retarded. Have fun internet warrior. It's 0300 here and I'm going to bed. LOL 2 years? Your fucking balls havent even dropped. ETA: Tell me why Commandos ignoring far recognition signals and opening up makes me "retard". Sorry I didn't have a boulder to hide behind to base my entire opinion of a machine gun on. 2 deployments? LOL |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 7:04:30 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm a machine gun scientist, not a rocket scientist. Your claim to fame is a leadership school, and your brother humped a machine gun? Tell us more about your "this one time" experiences? Quantify your, in your words, "extensive experience " on the PKM. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It is heavy as fuck and that is the biggest downside. The pkm is the better weapon system for the grunt in the field. On a vehicle the 240 is great. You're smoking crack. And who the fuck are you? If I'm smoking Crack you must be a fucking rocket scientist with lots of real world experience. I've had the unfortunate experience of having been on the receiving end of accurate pkm fire on a few occasions. One I remeber vividly in the mountains of Afghanistan and walking down a mountain pass at night under nods and a taliban fighter opened up on us and dumped his whole belt without a hiccup on our infil. If it wasn't for a giant Boulder to seek cover behind and close air support we would of been fucked. I also vividly remember our mk48 gunners struggling and some times puking going up and down the same shitty mountains in full kit. I also carried the 240 through pre-ranger and exclusively throughout ranger school without a sling. That bitch sucks to carry. That is undeniable. My youngest brother was a marine machinegunner and humped that bitch in Afghanistan. His back and legs are fucked as well. The PKM is Kalashnikov's greatest weapon design. Relatively light weight and it fucking runs. Sand, dirt, no lube, abused, they run. I'm a machine gun scientist, not a rocket scientist. Your claim to fame is a leadership school, and your brother humped a machine gun? Tell us more about your "this one time" experiences? Quantify your, in your words, "extensive experience " on the PKM. No bullshit, but what does machine gun scientist mean? Seems like a sweet gig if you can get it |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 7:05:05 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL 2 years? Your fucking balls havent even dropped. Not trying to stoke any flames here, but he said 3/75...so it's more like 8 months. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 7:06:25 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not trying to stoke any flames here, but he said 3/75...so it's more like 8 months. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: LOL 2 years? Your fucking balls havent even dropped. Not trying to stoke any flames here, but he said 3/75...so it's more like 8 months. Good point, I forget that sometimes. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 7:08:24 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No bullshit, but what does machine gun scientist mean? Seems like a sweet gig if you can get it These guys will set you up with an interview.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 7:10:15 PM EST
[#37]
I see this has now turned into a typical GD discussion
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Posted: 5/28/2022 7:13:01 PM EST
[#38]
The M240 is a crew serve weapon, not personal weapon so weight does not really matter. My experience with them from being an M1A1 tanker in Desert Storm is that they are fantastic weapons.
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Posted: 5/28/2022 7:21:59 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When NATO adopted 7.62, West Germany did a bunch of testing and found that in the machine gun role, the 8mm had a more effective range, by 200 meters. West Germany wanted to keep their machine guns in 8mm, but at that time, NATO wouldn't allow West Germany to do that. NATO has standardization agreements (STANAGs). They are voluntary standards -- if you want to be resupplied with allied-provided ammo, what the US provides will be produced to NATO standard. No nation is required to use them (i.e., Britain's 5.56mm is not NATO-compliant). NATO doesn't force ANYBODY to use or meet the STANAG or NATO procedures (except for nuclear weapon sharing -- those are non-negotiable) -- but they are put out. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 7:23:47 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No bullshit, but what does machine gun scientist mean? Seems like a sweet gig if you can get it Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It is heavy as fuck and that is the biggest downside. The pkm is the better weapon system for the grunt in the field. On a vehicle the 240 is great. You're smoking crack. And who the fuck are you? If I'm smoking Crack you must be a fucking rocket scientist with lots of real world experience. I've had the unfortunate experience of having been on the receiving end of accurate pkm fire on a few occasions. One I remeber vividly in the mountains of Afghanistan and walking down a mountain pass at night under nods and a taliban fighter opened up on us and dumped his whole belt without a hiccup on our infil. If it wasn't for a giant Boulder to seek cover behind and close air support we would of been fucked. I also vividly remember our mk48 gunners struggling and some times puking going up and down the same shitty mountains in full kit. I also carried the 240 through pre-ranger and exclusively throughout ranger school without a sling. That bitch sucks to carry. That is undeniable. My youngest brother was a marine machinegunner and humped that bitch in Afghanistan. His back and legs are fucked as well. The PKM is Kalashnikov's greatest weapon design. Relatively light weight and it fucking runs. Sand, dirt, no lube, abused, they run. I'm a machine gun scientist, not a rocket scientist. Your claim to fame is a leadership school, and your brother humped a machine gun? Tell us more about your "this one time" experiences? Quantify your, in your words, "extensive experience " on the PKM. No bullshit, but what does machine gun scientist mean? Seems like a sweet gig if you can get it This wasn't how I got there, but It's probably the fastest start. 20 or so years later, if you went to schools instead of hanging out with fam or going on vacation when you weren't deployed, you too could end up being a machine gun scientist! |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 7:28:19 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see this has now turned into a typical GD discussion It was a typical GD discussion on page 1. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 7:35:26 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Step away from the crack pipe. NATO has standardization agreements (STANAGs). They are voluntary standards -- if you want to be resupplied with allied-provided ammo, what the US provides will be produced to NATO standard. No nation is required to use them (i.e., Britain's 5.56mm is not NATO-compliant). NATO doesn't force ANYBODY to use or meet the STANAG or NATO procedures (except for nuclear weapon sharing -- those are non-negotiable) -- but they are put out. Not to take anything away from your statement, but Germany was an interesting case. When they were allowed to rearm, they were not initially treated as a particularly sovereign nation. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 7:39:15 PM EST
[#43]
Fair enough. Being a vanquished nation, they were armed with American weapons.
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Posted: 5/28/2022 7:43:50 PM EST
[#44]
At what point did they go to the MG- series?
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Posted: 5/28/2022 7:54:16 PM EST
[#45]
Love the tripod ....
 
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Posted: 5/28/2022 7:55:29 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At what point did they go to the MG- series? They used MG42s while Rheinmetall worked up the MG3. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 8:00:20 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not trying to stoke any flames here, but he said 3/75...so it's more like 8 months. Don't mind me, I'm just here for the show..... 
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Posted: 5/28/2022 8:04:10 PM EST
[#48]
LOL batt boy stumbled into the wrong bar and is wondering why the older guys are getting all the girls.
edit: the 240L is the best thing out right now. Shaved a few pounds from the golf days and plain fucking works. Fuck a PKM. |
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Posted: 5/28/2022 8:13:10 PM EST
[#49]
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Posted: 5/28/2022 8:15:53 PM EST
[#50]
Geissele bought the intellectual property.
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