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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:05:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 300BLK PSA Jakl count right? Wittle baby SCAR https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/42361/IMG_0160-2998197.jpg WHAT? |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:05:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No shit. Any dip shit can make a gun one color. It takes true art to fuck up 6 shades of FDE .. Really????? My 6 year old could draw a cucumber that looked like a big old dick one color. Why would you want it to be exact matching anyway? Just get a black one. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:06:41 PM EDT
[#3]
I'm a problem solver. Ruger should rename the rifle FUFN.
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:13:35 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm a problem solver. Ruger should rename the rifle FUFN.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:19:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As someone who works with IP/trademarks professionally, this should be fun to watch. If the FN case is that "SFAR" looks too much like "SCAR" they should get a well-deserved slapdown. I can't see any other similarities they could sue over in either the trademark or patent, since they share no operating design elements beyond being semi-auto in the same caliber. If FN cites some super broad patent that covers most semi-auto rifles (there are lots of very overly-board patents on the books so it's possible that is their intent) they are really asking to get their patent revoked. So far - no link. I can't tell if this is an early April Fools joke. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:20:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryI think my first car was less then that photo - new. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:22:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does FN think they own 5moa accuracy standards? It's a BaTtle RiFle! I've shot a few 17s and 16s I was not impressed. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:30:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a BaTtle RiFle! I've shot a few 17s and 16s I was not impressed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Does FN think they own 5moa accuracy standards? It's a BaTtle RiFle! I've shot a few 17s and 16s I was not impressed. Utter reliability in a .308 gas gun is admittedly boring. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:34:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  FN isn't an off brand. FFS,Quote HistoryQuoted: FN isn't an off brand. FFS,The Turks make a better Hi Power and MP5  Attached FileGlad I'm not the only one |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:39:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I can't find any actual evidence of a lawsuit over the SFAR. Does OP have a link to there they heard this? https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ncmd.98070/gov.uscourts.ncmd.98070.1.0.pdf |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:45:43 PM EDT
[#11]
I've known several people that worked for FN including a very close friend. The stories would blow your mind...the company is extremely dysfunctional and wouldn't be here today without riding on the wave of yesteryear's innovation fueled by govt contracts.
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:47:09 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've known several people that worked for FN including a very close friend. The stories would blow your mind...the company is extremely dysfunctional and wouldn't be here today without riding on the wave of yesteryear's innovation fueled by govt contracts. Thanks for the insight @SigOwner_P229 |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:47:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What in the trailer park methbilly are they talking about? Does ruger actually pronounce it as a single word, sfar? I haven't heard anybody call it that. People do say "scar", because sc is a common letter combination in english words. Not really that many sf words, except where the s and f are in different syllables, or even different words joined together. Like assfuckers. As in, FN are acting like assfuckers. Exactly. I think the only acronym people use for the Ruger is “POS” |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:48:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I want the SFAR to be awesome, but mostly mixed reviews so far I saw all the bad YouTube reviews from a year ago. Picked one up last month and haven’t had an issue. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:48:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So far - no link. I can't tell if this is an early April Fools joke. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: As someone who works with IP/trademarks professionally, this should be fun to watch. If the FN case is that "SFAR" looks too much like "SCAR" they should get a well-deserved slapdown. I can't see any other similarities they could sue over in either the trademark or patent, since they share no operating design elements beyond being semi-auto in the same caliber. If FN cites some super broad patent that covers most semi-auto rifles (there are lots of very overly-board patents on the books so it's possible that is their intent) they are really asking to get their patent revoked. So far - no link. I can't tell if this is an early April Fools joke. http://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ncmd.98070/gov.uscourts.ncmd.98070.1.0.pdf A few years ago FN sued Ruger over a claimed violation of their "Five-seveN" wordmark, which Ruger's "Ruger-57" pistol was supposedly infringing on. It was thrown out of court. I'd say this SFAR lawsuit is even worse than the 57 one. I'm not sure if their lawyers don't know how trademarks work, or if FN is really just that desperate to stop Ruger from taking a big chunk of FN's market share, but this is just sad. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:48:59 PM EDT
[#16]
never heard of an SFAR,
Got excited, googled then was disappointed. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:50:04 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FN isn't an off brand. FFS,Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So an off brand, crap contract mfgr, wants to sue Ruger? FANTASTIC! The people at Ruger must be laughing their asses off! Your SCAR is shit, no matter how many idiots overpay for it! Your contract rifles Sucked Ass also???????? FN isn't an off brand. FFS,Don’t feed the XD Owners. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:52:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm a problem solver. Ruger should rename the rifle FUFN. That would be hilarious. FN’s lawsuit is dubious at best. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:53:36 PM EDT
[#19]
The SFAR is an AR 10, nothing more, good luck FN, FN you are mentally challenged.
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:55:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've known several people that worked for FN including a very close friend. The stories would blow your mind...the company is extremely dysfunctional and wouldn't be here today without riding on the wave of yesteryear's innovation fueled by govt contracts. That sucks to hear. I’d love to work for FN and fix their product development but I’m not in a hurry to live a daily nightmare. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:57:24 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryThat a2 grip looks ridiculous. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:58:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. I think the only acronym people use for the Ruger is “POS” Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What in the trailer park methbilly are they talking about? Does ruger actually pronounce it as a single word, sfar? I haven't heard anybody call it that. People do say "scar", because sc is a common letter combination in english words. Not really that many sf words, except where the s and f are in different syllables, or even different words joined together. Like assfuckers. As in, FN are acting like assfuckers. Exactly. I think the only acronym people use for the Ruger is “POS”  |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:58:34 PM EDT
[#23]
Not withstanding FN’s well-known and established rights in the SCAR Mark, Ruger has commenced use of the trademark “SFAR”—pronounced as the word “SFAR” rather than an abbreviation of letters—in connection with directly competing firearms to FN’s SCAR-branded firearms (referred to herein collectively as the “Infringing SFAR Mark”). 27. Ruger’s intentional violations of FN’s rights in the SCAR Mark include Ruger referring to its own firearms products as simply the “SFAR” with no reference to the term “Ruger,” as shown for example in the image below. Not going to bother to read all of it. But FN is upset that SFAR (Short Framed AR?) sounds too similar to SCAR. It is quite a silly and frivolous. Shame to see FN go down that road.  Yeah because people would confuse the two, they look so similar. If you're thinking of dropping $3,500 on an FN SCAR 17 you'll know what it fucking looks like. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 9:02:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. I think the only acronym people use for the Ruger is “POS” They messed up their gas blocks and instead of fixing them they doubled down. Easy fix because who wants to buy a 308 AR that uses AR15 parts to not take advantage anyway. 1.5 MOA with Sako Hammerhead. Could probably squeeze more out of it with a better optic.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 9:05:51 PM EDT
[#25]
When Toyota planned a new truck to succeed T100, they wanted to name it "T150". Ford objected to it on the premise that it would violate their trademark on F-150 truck. Toyota named the new truck "Tundra".
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Posted: 3/12/2024 9:12:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://i.imgur.com/bZoecSk.jpeg Yeah because people would confuse the two, they look so similar. Dang. If you're going to sue someone, you at least make sure your photos look as similar as they can be. At least they didn't use a tan SCAR, but they should have 1.) scaled the images to be identical size, 2. made sure they both had identical flip-up sights in the same positions, not copy-pasted a fuzzy low-resolution FN SCAR photo vs a crisp Ruger pic, etc. Even a non-gun enthusiast jury or even a judge is going to look at those pics and go "Uhh... These don't really look super similar..." |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 9:29:34 PM EDT
[#27]
And FN will raise the price of the SCAR to $8700 to pay for this.
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Posted: 3/12/2024 9:32:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They messed up their gas blocks and instead of fixing them they doubled down. Easy fix because who wants to buy a 308 AR that uses AR15 parts to not take advantage anyway. 1.5 MOA with Sako Hammerhead. Could probably squeeze more out of it with a better optic. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/61399/IMG_2749_jpeg-3157526.JPG I love 100% FDE builds. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 9:37:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They messed up their gas blocks and instead of fixing them they doubled down. Easy fix because who wants to buy a 308 AR that uses AR15 parts to not take advantage anyway. 1.5 MOA with Sako Hammerhead. Could probably squeeze more out of it with a better optic. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/61399/IMG_2749_jpeg-3157526.JPG Max FDE. I approve.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 9:46:18 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does FN think they own 5moa accuracy standards? ?? |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 9:48:12 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Max FDE. I approve. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/100831/71133410586__AF6472DD-D4C3-45F9-85DB-837-3157553.JPG I like the way the SFAR shoots better but I’m under no illusion it’s a better combat rifle than the SCAR. I have a limited round count through it so as much as I love it, who knows about its longevity. I may dislike FN but the SCAR is a hell of a rifle. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 9:57:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ... I'd rather have a SCAR |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 9:59:08 PM EDT
[#33]
In before FN sues PSA for the JAKL violating FN’s “iCOnIC” SCAR trade dress
No one is going to confuse a SFAR for a SCAR, either visually or by name |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 10:00:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Isnt the SCAR a piston driven design and the Ruger a DGI on the same level as most other ARs and AR 15s?
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Posted: 3/12/2024 10:04:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have no idea what you are talking about. He's saying he can't spell |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 10:05:29 PM EDT
[#36]
So FN can sue Ruger but they can’t make a LS Edge High Power
 Idiots |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 10:17:36 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isnt the SCAR a piston driven design and the Ruger a DGI on the same level as most other ARs and AR 15s? SFAR is DI according to Google. Regardless, there are dozens of "piston" guns out there. FN is upset because of the name SFAR sounds like SCAR, and they claim it looks so similar that people would confuse the two.  They're upsets because they are both generic gun shapes and have similar letters in the name. Design wise they're very different. Quite lame, I know it is FN America doing this, but FNH is getting some sales from the war in Ukraine. FN is big on the military/LE market while Ruger is more or less civilian only. Even the markets where each respective company derives most of their profits differ. Quite the below the belt kick from FN America, and reflects poorly on them as a company IMO. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 10:19:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I worked for HK against ATI/GSG, so why not FN? What was your role there? |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 10:32:22 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Only link I can find is a 2020 patent infringement case. https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/32771897/FN_Herstal,_SA_v_Sturm,_Ruger__Co,_Inc Never mind |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 1:52:49 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. I think the only acronym people use for the Ruger is “POS” Watching the A team in the 80s proved that rugers can't hit shit. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 2:08:40 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To be fair: SCAR SFAR They only changed one letter out of 4, and it's in the same position. At least they didn't do SKAR, that would have been too much, right? I'd rather have a SCAR Aside from the hilarity of the claim, I thought that military designations were not something that could be trademarked. The FN SCAR was submitted in response to the SCAR-JORD solicitation. Link to History of SCAR Solicitation. Either way, NOT buying an FN Scar (or any FN for that matter - which is remarkable b/c I have owned a shit-ton of firearms) remains one of my better decisions . . . only confirmed by this nonsense. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 2:15:05 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So far - no link. I can't tell if this is an early April Fools joke. I guess verbal skills like reading are actually difficult for engineers, especially if they're lazy. Page 1, posts 42, 46, and 50 all have the link to the complaint. There's at lease one other quoting of that link on this page as well, @lazyengineer. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 2:25:29 AM EDT
[#43]
I'm glad they're doing this. Just the other day, I went into a store looking for a SCAR, checked the name tag because I don't know what one looks like, and accidentally bought a SFAR.
Bastards tricked me! I thought it was just a typo!! |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 3:12:49 AM EDT
[#44]
Right, so the docket has been posted now.
It would appear FN is using a 3rd party law firm to do the suit - vs in-house corporate lawyer team. The complaints are so over-stated it's just hard to even read. The included photographic evidence is a SHOT show pamphlet they didn't even bother spreading atop a scanner to get the creases out of, and a photo of the display screen of the Ruger Booth at the shot-show that has all the appearance of a hasty cell-phone grab. Niiice. very nice. Not involved - but as a disinterested perspective: Basically it has the appearance of someone at SHOT show who's company is fading and travel budgets are declining; walking around and seeing someone else doing pretty well, taking some phone grabs, and sending an after-hours hotel room LOOK AT THIS SHIT! email to his team to justify his junket to SHOT while the company books are tanking on US civilian gun sales; and the home office going OMG!! JUST LOOK AT THIS SHIT!!! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! And here we are. It's not a good look for FN. It makes them look petty, and at the same time desperate as their 2024 US sales market is tough, and they have got to be pretty much in the toilet by now. As it is with many; and they ain't cheap, and their differentiators no longer are that differentiating. And PSA now has their own hammer-forge up and running. In fact, let's go look. Let's go to Ruger.com. And look at that - right there on the bottom of their homepage: Careers! Companies that look to hire, tend to be companies doing OK. And now lets go to FNFirearmsUSA website. And we see... well. Um.. there's an About US page, so we'll go to that. And... andd... nope, no Career's page. And now the pieces are starting to come together. This is not a good look FN. On the plus side, looks like Ruger has multiple locations, including one not so far away from SC, in Maydan NC. And looks like they have 9 positions to fill. So there's that. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 7:24:12 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not going to bother to read all of it. But FN is upset that SFAR (Short Framed AR?) sounds too similar to SCAR. It is quite a silly and frivolous. Shame to see FN go down that road. https://i.imgur.com/bZoecSk.jpeg Yeah because people would confuse the two, they look so similar. If you're thinking of dropping $3,500 on an FN SCAR 17 you'll know what it fucking looks like. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 7:32:30 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right, so the docket has been posted now. It would appear FN is using a 3rd party law firm to do the suit - vs in-house corporate lawyer team. The complaints are so over-stated it's just hard to even read. The included photographic evidence is a SHOT show pamphlet they didn't even bother spreading atop a scanner to get the creases out of, and a photo of the display screen of the Ruger Booth at the shot-show that has all the appearance of a hasty cell-phone grab. Niiice. very nice. Not involved - but as a disinterested perspective: Basically it has the appearance of someone at SHOT show who's company is fading and travel budgets are declining; walking around and seeing someone else doing pretty well, taking some phone grabs, and sending an after-hours hotel room LOOK AT THIS SHIT! email to his team to justify his junket to SHOT while the company books are tanking on US civilian gun sales; and the home office going OMG!! JUST LOOK AT THIS SHIT!!! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! And here we are. It's not a good look for FN. It makes them look petty, and at the same time desperate as their 2024 US sales market is tough, and they have got to be pretty much in the toilet by now. As it is with many; and they ain't cheap, and their differentiators no longer are that differentiating. And PSA now has their own hammer-forge up and running. In fact, let's go look. Let's go to Ruger.com. And look at that - right there on the bottom of their homepage: Careers! Companies that look to hire, tend to be companies doing OK. And now lets go to FNFirearmsUSA website. And we see... well. Um.. there's an About US page, so we'll go to that. And... andd... nope, no Career's page. And now the pieces are starting to come together. This is not a good look FN. On the plus side, looks like Ruger has multiple locations, including one not so far away from SC, in Maydan NC. And looks like they have 9 positions to fill. So there's that. Truth. The US consumer has spoken and he wants cheap McGuns in quantity and doesn’t care about battle-tested, reliable European battle rifles. They are a niche market for wealthy gamers and discerning shooters who demand the best. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 7:46:33 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: HK didn't make a straight blowback .22, GSG did. HK sued GSG, HK made a straight blowback .22 for a higher price. The crux of the suit was GSG making a gun that looked as close as possible to an iconic HK weapon. That is not whats going on with FN/Ruger. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 8:13:37 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Truth. The US consumer has spoken and he wants cheap McGuns in quantity and doesn’t care about battle-tested reliability. Reliable European battle rifles are a niche market. Not entirely. The available variety of weapons was curtailed significantly by Bush 1, which is why there was so much cool shit around in the 80's that many of us were born too late to get our hands on. The AR-15 has evolved tremendously post-2004 since the expiry of the AWB; even weapons and shooting techniques used by the military have taken much of their development from innovation in the civilian American firearms market since that time. Because we can't get the rifles, the development of and aftermarket for those euro guns has languished. There's less of them available and less of a market for the parts to help manufacturers amortize the development and production costs. We've had attempts like the Sig 556, but that was both not authentic enough for the true 55X crowd, and too expensive for the doesn't want to spend money on niche guns crowd. The authentic ones basically have to be rebuilt after import by small shops and are hard to find, pretty expensive, and often have long wait times. Sure the SCAR is produced domestically, but the price is ridiculous for what you get, and you can't even suppress it without voiding the warranty-which is completely retarded for a piston gun. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 9:08:22 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right, so the docket has been posted now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Right, so the docket has been posted now. It was posted before you said it wasn't. Multiple times. FFS. Why is accountability so difficult for you? Would it have been that difficult to say "Oh shoot, I was wrong. I missed all of those posts" ? Quoted:It would appear FN is using a 3rd party law firm to do the suit - vs in-house corporate lawyer team. I don't know of a single corporate in-house team that litigates its own cases. Source - I'm a corporate attorney and have managed outside counsel (including for claims in Federal Court) for over a decade. Quoted:The complaints are so over-stated it's just hard to even read. The included photographic evidence is a SHOT show pamphlet they didn't even bother spreading atop a scanner to get the creases out of, and a photo of the display screen of the Ruger Booth at the shot-show that has all the appearance of a hasty cell-phone grab. Niiice. very nice. Not involved - but as a disinterested perspective: Basically it has the appearance of someone at SHOT show who's company is fading and travel budgets are declining; walking around and seeing someone else doing pretty well, taking some phone grabs, and sending an after-hours hotel room LOOK AT THIS SHIT! email to his team to justify his junket to SHOT while the company books are tanking on US civilian gun sales; and the home office going OMG!! JUST LOOK AT THIS SHIT!!! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! And here we are. It's not a good look for FN. It makes them look petty, and at the same time desperate as their 2024 US sales market is tough, and they have got to be pretty much in the toilet by now. As it is with many; and they ain't cheap, and their differentiators no longer are that differentiating. And PSA now has their own hammer-forge up and running. Agree that this is not a good look. But the idea that the litigation is in reaction/related to FN's (perceived at least) performance is laughable. IP attorneys and corporate litigators don't work on retainer, so if they don't win (which their attorneys have undoubtedly told them that it is at least a possibility), they risk the very real possibility that they have hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in IP attorneys/litigators fees at risk. Quoted:In fact, let's go look. Let's go to Ruger.com. And look at that - right there on the bottom of their homepage: Careers! Companies that look to hire, tend to be companies doing OK. And now lets go to FNFirearmsUSA website. And we see... well. Um.. there's an About US page, so we'll go to that. And... andd... nope, no Career's page. And now the pieces are starting to come together. Lol. Not only are you wrong: FN's Domestic Careers, but even if you were right about the careers . . . it takes a wild leap in logic to say that a foreign company's hiring practices compared to a domestic company's hiring practices is a reliable indicator of the companies' relative financial strength. Quoted:This is not a good look FN. We at least agree on this. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 9:51:11 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. Not only are you wrong: FN's Domestic Careers, but even if you were right about the careers . . . it takes a wild leap in logic to say that a foreign company's hiring practices compared to a domestic company's hiring practices is a reliable indicator of the companies' relative financial strength. Career listings on websites are not a good indication anymore. Companies caught on and have been gaming that system. It has become common practice for companies to always have listings up, even though they are not hiring. They do it to give the impression that they are constantly growing and doing well. And now you have tens of thousands of fake job listings on websites like linkdin, wasting peoples' time who are actually looking for work. And on top of that, biden's labor department uses these fake job listings to say the economy is doing great and he's creating jobs. |
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