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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:18:04 PM EDT
[#1]
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But for me, the interesting part is, the real cause of problems : “In the U.K., we have our poverty, but it would never be allowed to get this bad. And there wouldn’t be the kind of shortage of police officers you see in Detroit because of the way police are funded. True Lets make a deal. Since your government seems to know what it's doing, we'll send all the Detroit residents you England, and you can take care of them. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:18:51 PM EDT
[#2]
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I have a feeling that the streets of Detroit would be a culture shock to a lot of Americans too  Any 'high' crime area would. I'd like to take some anti police people on a ride along deep in the hood one day... Let them experience neighborhoods where if you ride around with your windows down long enough you hear gunshots in the area... Or take them in a trap house... Or let them be present when you do a traffic stop on a vehicle that just did a drive by, etc. I'd also be curious to see peoples reactions to seeing people bleeding out from getting shot/stabbed or whatever. Let people see what goes on regularly/daily in the high crime areas... Then see what their opinion of policing is. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:19:54 PM EDT
[#3]
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Well for one thing we won't just let banks foreclose on home owners and throw them out on the street, Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But for me, the interesting part is, the real cause of problems : “In the U.K., we have our poverty, but it would never be allowed to get this bad. And there wouldn’t be the kind of shortage of police officers you see in Detroit because of the way police are funded. True How exactly does the UK "not allow" poverty? Well for one thing we won't just let banks foreclose on home owners and throw them out on the street, And the banks loan money to people at low interest rates with no hope of repayment after a default, or is there more to the story? |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:20:07 PM EDT
[#4]
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But for me, the interesting part is, the real cause of problems : “In the U.K., we have our poverty, but it would never be allowed to get this bad. And there wouldn’t be the kind of shortage of police officers you see in Detroit because of the way police are funded. True A fifth (21%) of people in working families in London are in poverty, higher than the rest of England and London a decade ago. As both the number of people in working families and the in-work poverty rate have increased, most (60%) non-pensioners in poverty in London live in a working family. London's Poverty Profile |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:24:36 PM EDT
[#5]
I believe that according to 2013 FBI UCR data blacks committ homicide at a rate of 19 per 100,000 vs whites at rate of 2.5 per 100,000 (not sure if hispanics are counted in the white number, I believe they are going to break them out as a seperate category).
The 2.5 rate is not a lot higher then European rates, which typically are around 1 or 2 per 100k. The point is that people cause homicides and what culture you have is more important then things like gun control laws. You can also see it in non-firearm homicide rates. If the UK had lower homicide rates due to gun control their non-firearm homicide rates should be higher. Last I heard, they are not, but significantly lower. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:31:21 PM EDT
[#6]
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No I won't accept that I have been to America plenty of times and have witnessed poverty levels and a system that would not be accepted here We all have poor, but yours are on a whole new level I've never seen as many people begging as I did when I was in Boston, and have never seen anyone at a traffic light in the UK with a placard asking for a handout Your system won't handle it any better then ours does, or likely as well. We have a much more diverse population that presents problems you face only in the margins. Many of the handout people seem to be professional cheats who have found an easy path to making money. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:33:00 PM EDT
[#7]
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Your system won't handle it any better then ours does, or likely as well. We have a much more diverse population that presents problems you face only in the margins. Many of the handout people seem to be professional cheats who have found an easy path to making money. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No I won't accept that I have been to America plenty of times and have witnessed poverty levels and a system that would not be accepted here We all have poor, but yours are on a whole new level I've never seen as many people begging as I did when I was in Boston, and have never seen anyone at a traffic light in the UK with a placard asking for a handout Your system won't handle it any better then ours does, or likely as well. We have a much more diverse population that presents problems you face only in the margins. Many of the handout people seem to be professional cheats who have found an easy path to making money. Maybe yours are less economically viable Why don't you ask Tom Joad? 
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:33:24 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No I won't accept that I have been to America plenty of times and have witnessed poverty levels and a system that would not be accepted here We all have poor, but yours are on a whole new level I've never seen as many people begging as I did when I was in Boston, and have never seen anyone at a traffic light in the UK with a placard asking for a handout Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: But for me, the interesting part is, the real cause of problems : "In the U.K., we have our poverty, but it would never be allowed to get this bad. And there wouldn’t be the kind of shortage of police officers you see in Detroit because of the way police are funded. True No offense, but without having any insight into exactly HOW Detroit got into the position it is, our English friends should abstain from commenting. If we were to transplant the city of Detroit into England, trust me, you would soon find yourselves with the same political quagmire on your hands. I say that as someone who is originally from the Detroit area, and has observed what has gone on there and how it has gotten itself into the position it is in over several decades. No I won't accept that I have been to America plenty of times and have witnessed poverty levels and a system that would not be accepted here We all have poor, but yours are on a whole new level I've never seen as many people begging as I did when I was in Boston, and have never seen anyone at a traffic light in the UK with a placard asking for a handout That's rather naive. Do you believe those beggars to be homeless? Very few are. Most beggars in the US are conmen who are on the dole. All of them have cell phones, a lot of them have cars and I would wager that a good number of them have a better television than you do. The actual homeless in this country are, unfortunately, people suffering from mental illness and we used to do something about them till the mental healthcare system in this country was gutted. As for Detroit, it is the end result of American leftist politics. It serves as a reminder to those of us on the right as to what will happen if we allow them to run unchecked. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:37:43 PM EDT
[#9]
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Well for one thing we won't just let banks foreclose on home owners and throw them out on the street, Street people here in the US tend to have mental issues. Some even have money but live on the street anyway. It takes a long time to foreclose on home owners here, and I doubt we have many such former owners living on the street. There was a story about some woman who was married with children, but she was depressed and was crying in a park and some street people there asked if she would like to go with them to Florida. She did, leaving behind her husband and young children who had no idea what happened to her. Several years later she was discovered living under an overpass or such down in Florida. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:38:38 PM EDT
[#10]
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That's rather naive. Do you believe those beggars to be homeless? Very few are. Most beggars in the US are conmen who are on the dole. All of them have cell phones, a lot of them have cars and I would wager that a good number of them have a better television than you do. The actual homeless in this country are, unfortunately, people suffering from mental illness and we used to do something about them till the mental healthcare system in this country was gutted. As for Detroit, it is the end result of American leftist politics. It serves as a reminder to those of us on the right as to what will happen if we allow them to run unchecked. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But for me, the interesting part is, the real cause of problems : "In the U.K., we have our poverty, but it would never be allowed to get this bad. And there wouldn’t be the kind of shortage of police officers you see in Detroit because of the way police are funded. True No offense, but without having any insight into exactly HOW Detroit got into the position it is, our English friends should abstain from commenting. If we were to transplant the city of Detroit into England, trust me, you would soon find yourselves with the same political quagmire on your hands. I say that as someone who is originally from the Detroit area, and has observed what has gone on there and how it has gotten itself into the position it is in over several decades. No I won't accept that I have been to America plenty of times and have witnessed poverty levels and a system that would not be accepted here We all have poor, but yours are on a whole new level I've never seen as many people begging as I did when I was in Boston, and have never seen anyone at a traffic light in the UK with a placard asking for a handout That's rather naive. Do you believe those beggars to be homeless? Very few are. Most beggars in the US are conmen who are on the dole. All of them have cell phones, a lot of them have cars and I would wager that a good number of them have a better television than you do. The actual homeless in this country are, unfortunately, people suffering from mental illness and we used to do something about them till the mental healthcare system in this country was gutted. As for Detroit, it is the end result of American leftist politics. It serves as a reminder to those of us on the right as to what will happen if we allow them to run unchecked. Well by that rationale you also have more crooks and conmen. As I say I have never seen as many beggars, asking for money, food and even clothes, and people at traffic lights with cardboard signs is very real My eyes don't lie to me |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:41:24 PM EDT
[#11]
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That's rather naive. Do you believe those beggars to be homeless? Very few are. Most beggars in the US are conmen who are on the dole. All of them have cell phones, a lot of them have cars and I would wager that a good number of them have a better television than you do. The actual homeless in this country are, unfortunately, people suffering from mental illness and we used to do something about them till the mental healthcare system in this country was gutted. As for Detroit, it is the end result of American leftist politics. It serves as a reminder to those of us on the right as to what will happen if we allow them to run unchecked. All the above is correct. I would add that Detroit is the result of inner city black culture + leftist politics. Also here in the US the mentally ill are not generally placed in institutions unless they want to be, hence many end up on the street. If your spouse goes nuts and wants to live on the street there isn't much legally you can do. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:43:02 PM EDT
[#12]
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Whenever someone says this, we all need to respond with the following fact: "Back in the 1980's, when Brits could still legally own handguns, they averaged about 8-12 handgun homicides a year. Now that handguns are completely illegal, Britain sees 40-50 handgun homicides a year." or this question: "If gun control works so well in Europe, then why does Switzerland - the most heavily armed European country - have the lowest rate of firearms homicide? And the lowest violent crime rate?" Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That article screamed, "Look at England's strict gun laws saving lives!" More liberal BS trying to convince people guns are evil and need to be banned. Whenever someone says this, we all need to respond with the following fact: "Back in the 1980's, when Brits could still legally own handguns, they averaged about 8-12 handgun homicides a year. Now that handguns are completely illegal, Britain sees 40-50 handgun homicides a year." or this question: "If gun control works so well in Europe, then why does Switzerland - the most heavily armed European country - have the lowest rate of firearms homicide? And the lowest violent crime rate?" Better society, more cohesive and law abiding. Low poverty. In short, a lot more to live for. ETA just a guess, never been there. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:44:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well by that rationale you also have more crooks and conmen. As I say I have never seen as many beggars, asking for money, food and even clothes, and people at traffic lights with cardboard signs is very real My eyes don't lie to me I'll concede that we most likely have more crooks but again, as I said, the majority of those people aren't homeless. In some places in the US begging on street corners is illegal but cities run by liberals either don't have such a law or ignore enforcing it. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:46:32 PM EDT
[#14]
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Well by that rationale you also have more crooks and conmen. As I say I have never seen as many beggars, asking for money, food and even clothes, and people at traffic lights with cardboard signs is very real My eyes don't lie to me Well, as I said, it matters who you have in your country. The people with the cardboard signs tend to be crooks. Once young and pretty female holding a sign down in New Orleans looked as if she was about to break out crying. After seeing here there several times over a week or two I realized she was actually not a bad actor. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:48:19 PM EDT
[#15]
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. It's boring stereotype reporting. the wow the UK police are not routinely armed, and the American police an't imagine being without guns. Been said and 'reported' thousands of times. It's been a plot device in countless books, movies and TV shows. But for me, the interesting part is, the real cause of problems : “In the U.K., we have our poverty, but it would never be allowed to get this bad. And there wouldn’t be the kind of shortage of police officers you see in Detroit because of the way police are funded. I suspect that we have cultural differences, too. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:49:09 PM EDT
[#16]
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No offense, but without having any insight into exactly HOW Detroit got into the position it is, our English friends should abstain from commenting. If we were to transplant the city of Detroit into England, trust me, you would soon find yourselves with the same political quagmire on your hands. I say that as someone who is originally from the Detroit area, and has observed what has gone on there and how it has gotten itself into the position it is in over several decades. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But for me, the interesting part is, the real cause of problems : “In the U.K., we have our poverty, but it would never be allowed to get this bad. And there wouldn’t be the kind of shortage of police officers you see in Detroit because of the way police are funded. True No offense, but without having any insight into exactly HOW Detroit got into the position it is, our English friends should abstain from commenting. If we were to transplant the city of Detroit into England, trust me, you would soon find yourselves with the same political quagmire on your hands. I say that as someone who is originally from the Detroit area, and has observed what has gone on there and how it has gotten itself into the position it is in over several decades. we did this, it was called Coventry. I worked there in it's heyday and it too suffered decline like the D did. however it's nowhere near as bad as the D due to the difference in demographics. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:51:11 PM EDT
[#17]
The article is clearly anti-gun, but does anyone really think that the outstanding citizens they observed are any LESS prone to violence if they didn't have guns?
America has a violence problem. Period, end of story. Most people on this board haven't been to Europe and can't fathom that it isn't as violent there as it is here. Sure - they have crime problems too, but as a whole a cop doesn't have to worry about losing his life every time he interacts with a member of the public (speaking about the big cities here). These hoodlums (and it's not confined to any one race) absolutely have ZERO respect for life, law, and order. The fact that they have guns is only a symptom, but not the cause as the article hints at without saying it. When you have people ready to kill you over a perceived slight, you are indeed in third-world territory. Those attitudes are transmitted from generation to generation by broken homes and non-existent parents with no responsibility. Away from the big inner cities, most of America isn't any more violent than other places around the world. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:52:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Can you not imagine blm dealing with a European water cannon
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:55:54 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well for one thing we won't just let banks foreclose on home owners and throw them out on the street, Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: But for me, the interesting part is, the real cause of problems : "In the U.K., we have our poverty, but it would never be allowed to get this bad. And there wouldn’t be the kind of shortage of police officers you see in Detroit because of the way police are funded. True How exactly does the UK "not allow" poverty? Well for one thing we won't just let banks foreclose on home owners and throw them out on the street, First of all: If someone can't pay their mortgage or rent, should they get to continue to live there without any consequences? Does the bank and/or owner have any rights? In regards to poverty: There are a lot of programs available for people who want to truly lift themselves out of poverty. What you are seeing there is the natural end result of the welfare state enabling people to not give a shit about anything. They have accepted a life of ZERO responsibilities to go along with less-than-optimal living situations. They live in crappy housing, but they don't work, they don't pay for food or housing, they get their free Obama phone, utilities are probably paid for, they have a car and probably a big screen TV. There is absolutely no motivation to try to better themselves, nor does society expect it from them. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 3:56:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No I won't accept that I have been to America plenty of times and have witnessed poverty levels and a system that would not be accepted here We all have poor, but yours are on a whole new level I've never seen as many people begging as I did when I was in Boston, and have never seen anyone at a traffic light in the UK with a placard asking for a handout Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: But for me, the interesting part is, the real cause of problems : "In the U.K., we have our poverty, but it would never be allowed to get this bad. And there wouldn’t be the kind of shortage of police officers you see in Detroit because of the way police are funded. True No offense, but without having any insight into exactly HOW Detroit got into the position it is, our English friends should abstain from commenting. If we were to transplant the city of Detroit into England, trust me, you would soon find yourselves with the same political quagmire on your hands. I say that as someone who is originally from the Detroit area, and has observed what has gone on there and how it has gotten itself into the position it is in over several decades. No I won't accept that I have been to America plenty of times and have witnessed poverty levels and a system that would not be accepted here We all have poor, but yours are on a whole new level I've never seen as many people begging as I did when I was in Boston, and have never seen anyone at a traffic light in the UK with a placard asking for a handout Two things: One, many of the homeless are mentally ill, but due to abuses of the mental health commitment system, the courts have ruled that a person can only be involuntarily committed to a mental health facility if they are an imminent threat to themselves or others, and they must be released as soon as they are stable. This leads to a revolving door of such individuals who require medication to be stable but who don't want to be medicated, or would rather sell the medication they are given in order to buy alcohol or illegal drugs. There are plenty of medical and law enforcement personnel on this site who can list numerous examples of such that they've witnessed. I don't work in that field, but when an ex-gf had to go to the emergency room, I got to witness such an individual being treated for an infected cut on a finger that had been treated previously, but the individual had lost/sold the antibiotics he was given, so the finger was now gangrenous, and he would likely lose it. He was a known frequent-flyer at the hospital. The other is that standing by the road begging for money can be extremely lucrative, any number of investigative reports have been done on such individuals, in many cases they have a fairly nice car stashed somewhere nearby, as they can rake in thousands of dollars a day, tax-free. We even have groups that stay in Florida during the colder months and then take the bus or train up to Atlanta or Chattanooga, rent a room in an extended stay motel, and panhandle for a few months until they have money so they can go back and lounge on the beach the rest of the year. VERY seldom do I actually see someone panhandling that genuinely appears homeless (most are too clean or have nice shoes), and I work just blocks from a major charity aiding the homeless. We do have SOME, a friend volunteers at a homeless shelter and collected some old sweaters, jackets, and an old GI sleeping bag from me last week for them. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 4:13:27 PM EDT
[#21]
I suppose that if the illustrious UK police officer visited Las Vegas, he'd think that we're all chronic gamblers, and there'd be a bunch of freakin' UK socialists lecturing us about it on arfcom.
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Posted: 1/19/2016 4:18:33 PM EDT
[#22]
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we did this, it was called Coventry. I worked there in it's heyday and it too suffered decline like the D did. however it's nowhere near as bad as the D due to the difference in demographics. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But for me, the interesting part is, the real cause of problems : “In the U.K., we have our poverty, but it would never be allowed to get this bad. And there wouldn’t be the kind of shortage of police officers you see in Detroit because of the way police are funded. True No offense, but without having any insight into exactly HOW Detroit got into the position it is, our English friends should abstain from commenting. If we were to transplant the city of Detroit into England, trust me, you would soon find yourselves with the same political quagmire on your hands. I say that as someone who is originally from the Detroit area, and has observed what has gone on there and how it has gotten itself into the position it is in over several decades. we did this, it was called Coventry. I worked there in it's heyday and it too suffered decline like the D did. however it's nowhere near as bad as the D due to the difference in demographics. Coventry was for the most part caused by ze Germans, other places that suffered attack by Germans managed to fare rather better in the aftermath,.....such as Oahu, Hawaii
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Posted: 1/19/2016 4:26:27 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...and have never seen anyone at a traffic light in the UK with a placard asking for a handout That's because poor people in the UK are so poor, they can't afford placards. Or traffic lights. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 4:28:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ... When I lived in London in the 70's there were pubs, post offices, tube stations, getting blown up on a regular basis, as spinoffs from 'the troubles' in Ireland. Your 130,000 bobbies didn't know weather to shit or go blind, then. And plenty of people were out of work. And taxes were through the roof. ... Wait, so you're saying it was your fault? |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 4:35:23 PM EDT
[#25]
I understand that parts of Northern Ireland (i.e. Belfast) aren't all that different from Detroit.
Same grinding poverty cycle, and violence. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 4:36:01 PM EDT
[#26]
lol the English think that they run the entire country like England
they are little bigger than most of our states. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 4:36:24 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:As I say I have never seen as many beggars, asking for money, food and even clothes, and people at traffic lights with cardboard signs is very real
My eyes don't lie to me As someone who lives in this country, I've seen quite a few of them myself. What I haven't seen is a begger that looks like he/she isn't getting enough to eat. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 4:47:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Had a young guy beg for money in downtown Oslo when my wife and I were there.
Oslo Norway. 
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Posted: 1/19/2016 4:48:43 PM EDT
[#29]
There are poor people in Calcutta. You won't find any poor people in the US unless you count having a basic cable plan as poor.
As for the homeless, they could be in a house this week if they wanted, but it means having to give up the meth and booze. BTW: I'm pretty sure London averages about 100-130 murders a year, just like every other major US city that has not been destroyed by socialism. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 4:51:24 PM EDT
[#30]
What percentage of the English population is Black ?
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Posted: 1/19/2016 4:53:57 PM EDT
[#31]
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Away from the big inner cities, most of America isn't any more violent than other places around the world. Which is to say, once the majority minority zip codes are removed from the statistics, America is actually about as safe as Switzerland, and approaching Japan. ETA: In 2011, about 3100 white Americans were killed, out of a population of roughly 250 million (a number that includes some, if not most Latinos.) This puts the white homicide rate at norms approaching Western and Northern Europe. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 4:55:37 PM EDT
[#32]
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lol the English think that they run the entire country like England http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cyCg6QtW9_c/TT1wFMXYrTI/AAAAAAAABG4/AFDePIA1oqY/s1600/uk_usa_central_extract.png they are little bigger than most of our states. The difference between the US and the UK is that in the US, one hundred years is a long time, and in the UK, 100 miles is a long way. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 4:56:28 PM EDT
[#33]
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I liked that bit, too. The BLM activists who've been calling for police departments to be totally disarmed are just totally clueless. They think there is disorder now. It would be infinitely worse with unarmed American cops. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I like this: Assistant Detroit Police Chief Steve Dolunt, who has met Matthews several times, said he can’t imagine an unarmed police department. "I find it scary and a tad troubling that so few cops are armed over there,” Dolunt said. "They have strict gun control, and they have lower crime, but they still have problems with terrorism. So gun control doesn’t take away all violence. In America, we have the right to bear arms, and I think a law-abiding citizen should be allowed to carry a gun.” I liked that bit, too. The BLM activists who've been calling for police departments to be totally disarmed are just totally clueless. They think there is disorder now. It would be infinitely worse with unarmed American cops. Originally ma'am, they know exactly what they're doing. . |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 5:05:48 PM EDT
[#34]
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The article is clearly anti-gun, but does anyone really think that the outstanding citizens they observed are any LESS prone to violence if they didn't have guns? America has a violence problem. Period, end of story. Most people on this board haven't been to Europe and can't fathom that it isn't as violent there as it is here. Sure - they have crime problems too, but as a whole a cop doesn't have to worry about losing his life every time he interacts with a member of the public (speaking about the big cities here). These hoodlums (and it's not confined to any one race) absolutely have ZERO respect for life, law, and order. The fact that they have guns is only a symptom, but not the cause as the article hints at without saying it. When you have people ready to kill you over a perceived slight, you are indeed in third-world territory. Those attitudes are transmitted from generation to generation by broken homes and non-existent parents with no responsibility. Away from the big inner cities, most of America isn't any more violent than other places around the world. What he said. Every word of it. Especially the parts in red. And it's also important for those on the outside looking in to realize that America is a HUGE country, and that the violence problem is limited to very specific and extremely overrepresented areas. It's really hard to talk about "America" in any meaningful way, as if it were a homogenous thing. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 5:15:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol the English think that they run the entire country like England http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cyCg6QtW9_c/TT1wFMXYrTI/AAAAAAAABG4/AFDePIA1oqY/s1600/uk_usa_central_extract.png they are little bigger than most of our states. Some local governments in the State are very effective and useful. Others, well, they're run for the benefit of the political class and with very little regard to the condition of the average tax paying citizen. The poorly run local governments almost invariably try to lay the blame for their failures on the Federal level or on society in general. Comparing Great Britain to the United States is futile. Even though we started out as a British colony that's about where the comparison ends. We're living proof that giving citizens the Freedom that they are entitled to can make a society prosper. That really bothers the people who don't like the thought of men living free. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 5:17:36 PM EDT
[#36]
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We all have poor, but yours are on a whole new level Don't ever go to Mexico... |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 5:20:38 PM EDT
[#37]
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The article is clearly anti-gun, but does anyone really think that the outstanding citizens they observed are any LESS prone to violence if they didn't have guns? America has a violence problem. Period, end of story. Most people on this board haven't been to Europe and can't fathom that it isn't as violent there as it is here. Sure - they have crime problems too, but as a whole a cop doesn't have to worry about losing his life every time he interacts with a member of the public (speaking about the big cities here). These hoodlums (and it's not confined to any one race) absolutely have ZERO respect for life, law, and order. The fact that they have guns is only a symptom, but not the cause as the article hints at without saying it. When you have people ready to kill you over a perceived slight, you are indeed in third-world territory. Those attitudes are transmitted from generation to generation by broken homes and non-existent parents with no responsibility. Away from the big inner cities, most of America isn't any more violent than other places around the world. Not confined to any race, but some exibit the problem more then others. As I previously posted I believe the 2013 FBI Uniform Crime Report homicide numbers are 19 per 100k for blacks and 2.5 per 100k for whites. In 2011 is was 17 and 2.7 respectively, so the black rate went up while the white rate went down very slightly. In the 1980s I read interesting data that showed the Japanese homicide rate in the US was slightly lower then that in Japan. When you factor out the higher minority homicide rates we get numbers not much higher than the UK. And Europe doesn't have uniform homicide rates. The old bumper sticker "guns don't kill people, people kill people!" was always correct. Europe is going to learn the lesson the hard way, and has already started on a path to learning in places like Cologne and Rotherham. It is mostly the people and culture, not the laws and police, that make the difference. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 5:24:18 PM EDT
[#38]
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Well for one thing we won't just let banks foreclose on home owners and throw them out on the street, Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But for me, the interesting part is, the real cause of problems : “In the U.K., we have our poverty, but it would never be allowed to get this bad. And there wouldn’t be the kind of shortage of police officers you see in Detroit because of the way police are funded. True How exactly does the UK "not allow" poverty? Well for one thing we won't just let banks foreclose on home owners and throw them out on the street, WAT? So you get a free apartment or some shit? |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 5:24:57 PM EDT
[#39]
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What percentage of the English population is Black ? lol oh snap edit - I was curious and looked it up (wikipedia, though). 12.61% in US and 3.0% in UK which is roughly 40.65M vs 1.95M. I'm not saying that means anything because there are different cultural dynamics in play, but yeah... |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 5:42:50 PM EDT
[#40]
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lol the English think that they run the entire country like England http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cyCg6QtW9_c/TT1wFMXYrTI/AAAAAAAABG4/AFDePIA1oqY/s1600/uk_usa_central_extract.png they are little bigger than most of our states. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. 
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Posted: 1/19/2016 5:47:25 PM EDT
[#41]
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What percentage of the English population is Black ? In England and Wales it is around 2.8% of the population. Asian (that is to say Pakistani, Indian, Bangladeshi, and Sri Lankan for the most part) make up 5.9% |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 5:48:12 PM EDT
[#42]
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No I won't accept that I have been to America plenty of times and have witnessed poverty levels and a system that would not be accepted here We all have poor, but yours are on a whole new level I've never seen as many people begging as I did when I was in Boston, and have never seen anyone at a traffic light in the UK with a placard asking for a handout Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But for me, the interesting part is, the real cause of problems : “In the U.K., we have our poverty, but it would never be allowed to get this bad. And there wouldn’t be the kind of shortage of police officers you see in Detroit because of the way police are funded. True No offense, but without having any insight into exactly HOW Detroit got into the position it is, our English friends should abstain from commenting. If we were to transplant the city of Detroit into England, trust me, you would soon find yourselves with the same political quagmire on your hands. I say that as someone who is originally from the Detroit area, and has observed what has gone on there and how it has gotten itself into the position it is in over several decades. No I won't accept that I have been to America plenty of times and have witnessed poverty levels and a system that would not be accepted here We all have poor, but yours are on a whole new level I've never seen as many people begging as I did when I was in Boston, and have never seen anyone at a traffic light in the UK with a placard asking for a handout You are assuming those people are actually poor and aren't just con artists cashing in on people's charity. Around where I live almost all of the placard holders get into their cars and drive home at the end of the day. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 6:05:59 PM EDT
[#43]
The UK murder rate is as they'd say... bollocks.
Home office numbers for "murder" only counts killings that go to trial and are convicted as murders. Manslaughter is "something else". Unsolved killings are "something else". Probably not quite as high as Americas rate, but a lot closer to ours, where the FBI/NIJ for it's purposes counts every non-natural and non-accidental non-suicide death as a "murder".... Even justifiable self-defense and police shootings ruled to be legal. Friends and acquaintances from the UK who visit or who move here are quick to realize just how peaceful and safe 99% of America is by area. And by "area". And that the "nice areas" in the UK don't feel as safe and relaxed as the "nice areas" in America do. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 6:10:00 PM EDT
[#44]
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Well by that rationale you also have more crooks and conmen. As I say I have never seen as many beggars, asking for money, food and even clothes, and people at traffic lights with cardboard signs is very real My eyes don't lie to me Google search: London Beggars |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 6:10:53 PM EDT
[#45]
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That's because poor people in the UK are so poor, they can't afford placards. Or traffic lights. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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...and have never seen anyone at a traffic light in the UK with a placard asking for a handout That's because poor people in the UK are so poor, they can't afford placards. Or traffic lights. It's the roundabouts: hard to camp out with a sign. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 6:13:08 PM EDT
[#46]
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The UK murder rate is as they'd say... bollocks. Home office numbers for "murder" only counts killings that go to trial and are convicted as murders. Wrong Manslaughter is "something else". Yes, it's manslaughter Unsolved killings are "something else". Wrong Probably not quite as high as Americas rate, but a lot closer to ours, where the FBI/NIJ for it's purposes counts every non-natural and non-accidental non-suicide death as a "murder".... Even justifiable self-defense and police shootings ruled to be legal. Friends and acquaintances from the UK who visit or who move here are quick to realize just how peaceful and safe 99% of America is by area. And by "area". And that the "nice areas" in the UK don't feel as safe and relaxed as the "nice areas" in America do. Depends were you are. You would need to compare like for like areas to get a true comparison. Comments in red. The whole "murders are not counted unless there is a conviction" is false. Unsolved murder enquiries in the UK which count towards the Murder stats unless proven not to be murder. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 6:29:56 PM EDT
[#47]
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- Europe is going to learn the lesson the hard way, and has already started on a path to learning in places like Cologne and Rotherham. It is mostly the people and culture, not the laws and police, that make the difference. Quote HistoryQuoted:
- Europe is going to learn the lesson the hard way, and has already started on a path to learning in places like Cologne and Rotherham. It is mostly the people and culture, not the laws and police, that make the difference. What was learned at Rotherham was that being called racist is worse than organized pedophile rape gangs. And what's been learned from Koln is that those who run social media can still control public opinion. It used to be "never get in a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel"... now it's "don't get in a social media fight with the people who run social media". It is an interesting article. After several trips to the U.S., visiting police departments from Alaska to Mississippi I'd bet many of those other departments were much more dull. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 6:34:24 PM EDT
[#48]
"...only 6,000 are trained with firearms..."
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Posted: 1/19/2016 6:47:54 PM EDT
[#49]
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Well by that rationale you also have more crooks and conmen. As I say I have never seen as many beggars, asking for money, food and even clothes, and people at traffic lights with cardboard signs is very real My eyes don't lie to me Google search: London Beggars Nobody said there weren't homeless people on the street. Bradders is right. I have never seen beggars at traffic lights doing as he described either, and I travel quite widely across the country. |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 6:47:55 PM EDT
[#50]
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No I won't accept that I have been to America plenty of times and have witnessed poverty levels and a system that would not be accepted here We all have poor, but yours are on a whole new level I've never seen as many people begging as I did when I was in Boston, and have never seen anyone at a traffic light in the UK with a placard asking for a handout Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But for me, the interesting part is, the real cause of problems : “In the U.K., we have our poverty, but it would never be allowed to get this bad. And there wouldn’t be the kind of shortage of police officers you see in Detroit because of the way police are funded. True No offense, but without having any insight into exactly HOW Detroit got into the position it is, our English friends should abstain from commenting. If we were to transplant the city of Detroit into England, trust me, you would soon find yourselves with the same political quagmire on your hands. I say that as someone who is originally from the Detroit area, and has observed what has gone on there and how it has gotten itself into the position it is in over several decades. No I won't accept that I have been to America plenty of times and have witnessed poverty levels and a system that would not be accepted here We all have poor, but yours are on a whole new level I've never seen as many people begging as I did when I was in Boston, and have never seen anyone at a traffic light in the UK with a placard asking for a handout You are aware that most of the people here with the placards at the traffic lights are scammers, right? Perhaps you actually enforce your vagrancy laws. We used to. |
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