Francis Gary Powers Awarded SSM - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Francis Gary Powers Awarded SSM (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 6/17/2012 6:42:15 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Randall Made sold their soul years ago.

Some of you guys are paying out the ass for nothing more than a stock grind away with a brand name.

Though I dont care much for Gary Randalls pompus attitude he still carries on the shop much as his father Bo did. You have obviously never toured their modest facility as I have. I quit counting at about my 20th visit or so.
The guys still do all the work by hand. It is a sight to watch them make one from a raw blank. I have also witnessed them return blanks that did not meet their ctriteria as well.
A lot of folks dont realize they are picky about their material and that is another factor in their back orders. Their not inexpensive for a reason.

The one time I was there, Gary and I had a nice conversation. He said, "Nice day." and I said, "Sure is".

Jane

Posted: 6/17/2012 6:45:03 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Randall Made sold their soul years ago.

Some of you guys are paying out the ass for nothing more than a stock grind away with a brand name.

Though I dont care much for Gary Randalls pompus attitude he still carries on the shop much as his father Bo did. You have obviously never toured their modest facility as I have. I quit counting at about my 20th visit or so.
The guys still do all the work by hand. It is a sight to watch them make one from a raw blank. I have also witnessed them return blanks that did not meet their ctriteria as well.
A lot of folks dont realize they are picky about their material and that is another factor in their back orders. Their not inexpensive for a reason.

My friend was so proud of his Model 15, he brought it by the house when he was in town. I'm no knife expert but it looked and felt awesome. No blems.
I'm glad to hear I wasn't suckered.

Posted: 6/17/2012 7:16:18 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What did he do to meet the criteria of a silver star?

Getting shot down does not equate to extraordinary heroism in action against an enemy of the United States, while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party

"Powers was detained for two years and underwent 107 days of intense interrogations at Moscow’s infamous Lubyanka prison. Though pressured with threats of death, as well as sleep and food deprivation, "Captain Powers steadfastly refused all attempts to give sensitive defense information or be exploited for propaganda purposes,” the medal citation reads."

http://www.stripes.com/blogs/stripes-central/stripes-central-1.8040/silver-star-sets-the-record-straight-say-children-of-francis-gary-powers-1.180361

According to Power's own book, that citation is an exaggeration or an outright fabrication.

You guys really should read it.

My guess is that the Silver Star is an apology for all the years that he was suspected by his own government, of being a sell out or a double agent.

I haven't read his book. Could be you are right on the reason for the award, but I would also consider that there is another intended recipient to the political message being sent about the horrors of the KGB and Lubyanka prison

Posted: 6/17/2012 7:20:59 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

So under that standard, about 90 percent of those shot down in Vietnam rate it, or almost all the Korean POWs rate it.

Powers was not a POW.

Posted: 6/17/2012 7:21:59 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What did he do to meet the criteria of a silver star?

Getting shot down does not equate to extraordinary heroism in action against an enemy of the United States, while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party

"Powers was detained for two years and underwent 107 days of intense interrogations at Moscow’s infamous Lubyanka prison. Though pressured with threats of death, as well as sleep and food deprivation, “Captain Powers steadfastly refused all attempts to give sensitive defense information or be exploited for propaganda purposes,” the medal citation reads."

http://www.stripes.com/blogs/stripes-central/stripes-central-1.8040/silver-star-sets-the-record-straight-say-children-of-francis-gary-powers-1.180361

So under that standard, about 90 percent of those shot down in Vietnam rate it, or almost all the Korean POWs rate it.

As decorations go, an award to those prisoners that resisted under hellish conditions would not be out of line.

Mass awards of a medal are not unknown in our nation's history. See, for example, the 1947 decision to award the Bronze Star to all WWII recipients of the Combat Infantry/Medical Badges.

Posted: 6/17/2012 7:24:38 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:

So under that standard, about 90 percent of those shot down in Vietnam rate it, or almost all the Korean POWs rate it.

Powers was not a POW.

He was posthumously awarded the POW Medal by the US government in 2000.

Posted: 6/17/2012 7:53:09 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Wasn't he supposed to kill himself to avoid capture?

Orders?

That's not a reasonable or lawful order.

During the height of the Cold War and your knowledge can aid the enemy it's not so unreasonable.

Killing yourself is Hollywood BS.

Exactly.
You can't order people to kill themselves.

He was strongly encouraged to kill himself

Now, I can believe that.

The late, great Capt. Paul E. Padgett USN said Powers should have been shot upon his return for not
killing himself.

I have no dog in this fight, if there is a fight. I just know the type of man that Capt. Padgett was, the finest.

Posted: 6/17/2012 8:24:06 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:

So under that standard, about 90 percent of those shot down in Vietnam rate it, or almost all the Korean POWs rate it.

Powers was not a POW.

He was posthumously awarded the POW Medal by the US government in 2000.

He still wasn't a POW.

Posted: 6/17/2012 8:58:14 AM EDT

[#9]

This is my model 8...Bought it back in the seventies...

While is serves me well as a general use outdoor knife, It is poorly designed as a "trout and bird" knife.

Blade is too thick and too inflexible. The edge bevel is also wrong. Any angler knows that a thin, flexible blade (like Rapala) is what is

needed on fish. The same is true for most game birds....Actually, a common kitchen paring knife serves well for "trout and bird".

Posted: 6/17/2012 9:14:19 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
This is my model 8...Bought it back in the seventies...

While is serves me well as a general use outdoor knife, It is poorly designed as a "trout and bird" knife.

Blade is too thick and too inflexible. The edge bevel is also wrong. Any angler knows that a thin, flexible blade (like Rapala) is what is
needed on fish. The same is true for most game birds....Actually, a common kitchen paring knife serves well for "trout and bird".

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc18/Babo47/P1010108.jpg

Well, some men put up with a woman who doesn't work well simply because she is beautiful. I guess same could hold true for a knife.

Posted: 6/17/2012 9:33:59 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:

So under that standard, about 90 percent of those shot down in Vietnam rate it, or almost all the Korean POWs rate it.

Powers was not a POW.

He was posthumously awarded the POW Medal by the US government in 2000.

He still wasn't a POW.

Then neither were the prisoners from Korea, SEA, or the Bay of PIgs.

Posted: 6/17/2012 9:45:10 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
These are personal pics I took in 2009. There is way more to the story than most know. I grew up with this story as a fundamental part of my up-bringing, considering my dad's work and where we lived, right near Plant 42 in the Antelope Valley.

He also carried this very High Standard suppressed .22:

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/Jan-Feb2009101.jpg

Here's his bird:

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/Jan-Feb2009009.jpg

I learned in 2009 that the SAM that got him was one of a few specially-constructed and modified SA-2's with additional booster stages. One of my friends' grandfathers worked on the program directly for the Soviet Premier, as they were incensed that the Yankees were flying over their country with impunity, at such high altitude, exposing the fact that their long-range nuclear delivery capabilities were non-existent. They initiated a multiple-approach, highest priority plan to bring down a U-2, and it relied heavily on an active intelligence operation, which some believe even pentrated the base in Pakistan from which Powers launched.

Another interesting fact is that Eisenhower had ordered the flights temporarily halted, before he was to the Ukraine for a major and unprecedented visit by an American President to the Soviet Union. The CIA ordered the Powers flight anyway, against the President's directive, and extended the mission profile to an audacious flight plan that would cover the Urals, and keep going until reaching the Murmansk Naval complex thousands of miles away, in northwest Russia by the Finnish border.

The S-75 (SA-2) first went into service in 1957. The fact that U-2's didn't start falling victim to them until 1960 (or maybe 1959 over Red China) indicates that Powers was shot down by a later version.

The Soviets did go nuts over the U-2 overflights. They modified MiG-19's to fly higher by lightening them and modifying the engines. They also put MiG-19's on zero-length launchers to get them closer to the intruding aircraft's flight paths. MiG-21's could also zoom climb up to and over the U-2's cruising altitude. I haven't heard of any of these aircraft ever getting off a successful shot at a U-2 at altitude.

Powers' flight was approved by the White House after a bunch of lobbying by CIA and probably others in the intelligence community. In retrospect, this was a very big mistake.

Posted: 6/17/2012 10:33:50 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Wasn't he supposed to kill himself to avoid capture?

Orders?

That's not a reasonable or lawful order.

During the height of the Cold War and your knowledge can aid the enemy it's not so unreasonable.

That he was shot down and captured was great for Russian propaganda in addition to them getting their spy back in a trade.

I always remembered Powers being looked down upon because he didn't follow orders and kill himself instead of being captured. May be a lot to expect in today's ME, ME and ME culture but we also were expected to actually win wars back then.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Francis Gary Powers Awarded SSM (Page 2 of 2)

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