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Posted: 11/26/2021 2:51:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm where you are at from a legal standpoint. He was asked to leave and refused. This meets trespass. Shooter had a legal right to be there and to be armed. He was within his right to use force at that point, but not deadly force. Dead guy then advanced on him, told him he was going to take his gun and use it on him, then grabbed, swatted, or whatever at the gun and then tossed the guy around. At this point I'd say he met the reasonable threshold of deadly force. Back it up 45 seconds and I would personally never have gotten involved outside of telling him to leave, telling GF to come inside, and then sit inside waiting for the police or him to leave. No need to go through anything further over a custody issue. It just seems from how Texas castle doctrine and stand your ground is written the guy is clear on this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm not gonna lie, if someone tells me they're taking my gun from me, gets right up in my face, and I feel pressure on the gun... I'm assuming they've grabbed it. My eyes aren't where the camera is, I can't pause, pinch and zoom, slow down, or edit my real-time perception. This also isn't the only time dudes hands were in contact with the gun. Again, devils advocate. Just pointing out that his perception at the time might have been perfectly reasonable, which is the standard it should be judged against. This was brought up when discussion video evidence in the Rittenhouse trial, if we recall. He was asked to leave and refused. This meets trespass. Shooter had a legal right to be there and to be armed. He was within his right to use force at that point, but not deadly force. Dead guy then advanced on him, told him he was going to take his gun and use it on him, then grabbed, swatted, or whatever at the gun and then tossed the guy around. At this point I'd say he met the reasonable threshold of deadly force. Back it up 45 seconds and I would personally never have gotten involved outside of telling him to leave, telling GF to come inside, and then sit inside waiting for the police or him to leave. No need to go through anything further over a custody issue. It just seems from how Texas castle doctrine and stand your ground is written the guy is clear on this. Legal or not, I still expect that he's likely getting indicted at the very least because it looks really bad, and who knows what will happen. While I do make sure I'm armed when telling people to GTFO my property, I handle it waaaay differently, for this very reason. I stand by my assertion that all involved are retards of the highest order. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:02:37 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nailed it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm not gonna lie, if someone tells me they're taking my gun from me, gets right up in my face, and I feel pressure on the gun... I'm assuming they've grabbed it. My eyes aren't where the camera is, I can't pause, pinch and zoom, slow down, or edit my real-time perception. This also isn't the only time dudes hands were in contact with the gun. Again, devils advocate. Just pointing out that his perception at the time might have been perfectly reasonable, which is the standard it should be judged against. This was brought up when discussion video evidence in the Rittenhouse trial, if we recall. He was asked to leave and refused. This meets trespass. Shooter had a legal right to be there and to be armed. He was within his right to use force at that point, but not deadly force. Dead guy then advanced on him, told him he was going to take his gun and use it on him, then grabbed, swatted, or whatever at the gun and then tossed the guy around. At this point I'd say he met the reasonable threshold of deadly force. Back it up 45 seconds and I would personally never have gotten involved outside of telling him to leave, telling GF to come inside, and then sit inside waiting for the police or him to leave. No need to go through anything further over a custody issue. It just seems from how Texas castle doctrine and stand your ground is written the guy is clear on this. Nailed it. I was in a similar situation once. My wifes ex comes to my house, getting hot tempered demanding to see his son. The issue with that however was he was behind on child support, and arrived a day late for the visit. This was a dispute between my wife and her ex, I did not fell it was any of my business to get involved, unless he force-ably came into my home. I told my wife to get back inside, lock the door and call the cops, while she did that I got her divorce decree, which stated that she was in the right to refuse visitation. Once the cops arrived they reviewed the divorce decree, told my wifes ex he needed to leave or would be charged with trespassing. And that was the end to it. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:03:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Part of the issue is that we're missing a lot of information, so we're left to guesswork to fill in the blanks. Maybe the guy was there on the wrong day, at the wrong time, and was in violation of a court order himself. No fucking clue. Legal or not, I still expect that he's likely getting indicted at the very least because it looks really bad, and who knows what will happen. While I do make sure I'm armed when telling people to GTFO my property, I handle it waaaay differently, for this very reason. I stand by my assertion that all involved are retards of the highest order. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm not gonna lie, if someone tells me they're taking my gun from me, gets right up in my face, and I feel pressure on the gun... I'm assuming they've grabbed it. My eyes aren't where the camera is, I can't pause, pinch and zoom, slow down, or edit my real-time perception. This also isn't the only time dudes hands were in contact with the gun. Again, devils advocate. Just pointing out that his perception at the time might have been perfectly reasonable, which is the standard it should be judged against. This was brought up when discussion video evidence in the Rittenhouse trial, if we recall. He was asked to leave and refused. This meets trespass. Shooter had a legal right to be there and to be armed. He was within his right to use force at that point, but not deadly force. Dead guy then advanced on him, told him he was going to take his gun and use it on him, then grabbed, swatted, or whatever at the gun and then tossed the guy around. At this point I'd say he met the reasonable threshold of deadly force. Back it up 45 seconds and I would personally never have gotten involved outside of telling him to leave, telling GF to come inside, and then sit inside waiting for the police or him to leave. No need to go through anything further over a custody issue. It just seems from how Texas castle doctrine and stand your ground is written the guy is clear on this. Legal or not, I still expect that he's likely getting indicted at the very least because it looks really bad, and who knows what will happen. While I do make sure I'm armed when telling people to GTFO my property, I handle it waaaay differently, for this very reason. I stand by my assertion that all involved are retards of the highest order. Agreed. Lots of missing info. I wouldn't be surprised at seeing him indicted, but knowing Lubbock, having spent most of my life there, and having worked for Lubbock PD, I would be surprised if he got convicted. I won't say that it was a good shoot, but I also won't say it wasn't justifiable. But I agree, could have been handled way better. I have a girlfriend that has kids, one is an adult one is 13. I know her ex. We're cordial to each other. I don't care for the way he treats her but I sure as hell would never get in-between the two of them unless it was physical. Which I don't expect to ever happen. Hell, the guy invited us both over for dinner the other night; which we declined for obvious reasons. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:05:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was in a similar situation once. My wifes ex comes to my house, getting hot tempered demanding to see his son. The issue with that however was he was behind on child support, and arrived a day late for the visit. This was a dispute between my wife and her ex, I did not fell it was any of my business to get involved, unless he force-ably came into my home. I told my wife to get back inside, lock the door and call the cops, while she did that I got her divorce decree, which stated that she was in the right to refuse visitation. Once the cops arrived they reviewed the divorce decree, told my wifes ex he needed to leave or would be charged with trespassing. And that was the end to it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm not gonna lie, if someone tells me they're taking my gun from me, gets right up in my face, and I feel pressure on the gun... I'm assuming they've grabbed it. My eyes aren't where the camera is, I can't pause, pinch and zoom, slow down, or edit my real-time perception. This also isn't the only time dudes hands were in contact with the gun. Again, devils advocate. Just pointing out that his perception at the time might have been perfectly reasonable, which is the standard it should be judged against. This was brought up when discussion video evidence in the Rittenhouse trial, if we recall. He was asked to leave and refused. This meets trespass. Shooter had a legal right to be there and to be armed. He was within his right to use force at that point, but not deadly force. Dead guy then advanced on him, told him he was going to take his gun and use it on him, then grabbed, swatted, or whatever at the gun and then tossed the guy around. At this point I'd say he met the reasonable threshold of deadly force. Back it up 45 seconds and I would personally never have gotten involved outside of telling him to leave, telling GF to come inside, and then sit inside waiting for the police or him to leave. No need to go through anything further over a custody issue. It just seems from how Texas castle doctrine and stand your ground is written the guy is clear on this. Nailed it. I was in a similar situation once. My wifes ex comes to my house, getting hot tempered demanding to see his son. The issue with that however was he was behind on child support, and arrived a day late for the visit. This was a dispute between my wife and her ex, I did not fell it was any of my business to get involved, unless he force-ably came into my home. I told my wife to get back inside, lock the door and call the cops, while she did that I got her divorce decree, which stated that she was in the right to refuse visitation. Once the cops arrived they reviewed the divorce decree, told my wifes ex he needed to leave or would be charged with trespassing. And that was the end to it. Best way to handle the situation. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:05:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed. Lots of missing info. I wouldn't be surprised at seeing him indicted, but knowing Lubbock, having spent most of my life there, and having worked for Lubbock PD, I would be surprised if he got convicted. I won't say that it was a good shoot, but I also won't say it wasn't justifiable. But I agree, could have been handled way better. I have a girlfriend that has kids, one is an adult one is 13. I know her ex. We're cordial to each other. I don't care for the way he treats her but I sure as hell would never get in-between the two of them unless it was physical. Which I don't expect to ever happen. Hell, the guy invited us both over for dinner the other night; which we declined for obvious reasons. this is exactly why I said it "looks a lot like murder ". personally I think he will end up indicted by grand jury. The only videos produced so far is not particularly flattering, and as such I think most grand jury's are going to say send this dude To trial. once discovery begins things will get very interesting |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:09:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed. Lots of missing info. I wouldn't be surprised at seeing him indicted, but knowing Lubbock, having spent most of my life there, and having worked for Lubbock PD, I would be surprised if he got convicted. I won't say that it was a good shoot, but I also won't say it wasn't justifiable. But I agree, could have been handled way better. I have a girlfriend that has kids, one is an adult one is 13. I know her ex. We're cordial to each other. I don't care for the way he treats her but I sure as hell would never get in-between the two of them unless it was physical. Which I don't expect to ever happen. Hell, the guy invited us both over for dinner the other night; which we declined for obvious reasons. 
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:09:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is that whole fingers & opposable thumb thing humans use to grab with. His PALM is downward facing the entire time. He raised his forearm (while keeping his palm DOWN at all times) to move rifle muzzle away from him. Since his wrist never twisted or rolled to put the palm UPward to "Grab" anything, please explain how he "Grabbed" the rifle with the top of his hand? Maybe Velcro or Duct Tape or a he sprayed a bunch of "Stick'um" or what ... ... ... ?  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't see that at all in your gif. I see him push up with the top of his wrist/arm?  He's reaching for the mag and appears to make contact with it. There is that whole fingers & opposable thumb thing humans use to grab with. His PALM is downward facing the entire time. He raised his forearm (while keeping his palm DOWN at all times) to move rifle muzzle away from him. Since his wrist never twisted or rolled to put the palm UPward to "Grab" anything, please explain how he "Grabbed" the rifle with the top of his hand? Maybe Velcro or Duct Tape or a he sprayed a bunch of "Stick'um" or what ... ... ... ? Please explain why are you using "" around Grab, when I never once said "grab"? |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:11:16 PM EDT
[#8]
One thing is certain. Texas should lead the country in dead trespassers from what I am reading here. Get off my lawn should be followed by swift mag dumps. Don’t get on my fucking grass!
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:22:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll take your experienced opinion over my own, I'm nowhere near there. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Agreed. Lots of missing info. I wouldn't be surprised at seeing him indicted, but knowing Lubbock, having spent most of my life there, and having worked for Lubbock PD, I would be surprised if he got convicted. I won't say that it was a good shoot, but I also won't say it wasn't justifiable. But I agree, could have been handled way better. I have a girlfriend that has kids, one is an adult one is 13. I know her ex. We're cordial to each other. I don't care for the way he treats her but I sure as hell would never get in-between the two of them unless it was physical. Which I don't expect to ever happen. Hell, the guy invited us both over for dinner the other night; which we declined for obvious reasons. I obviously know a bunch of LPD guys/gals. And them not charging him right off the bat tells me a lot. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:23:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Looks like both parties could have called the police and let them ref the dispute....but no....savages gonna savage I guess.....there goes an aspiring rap career and the next rocket scientist is now resting in peace..oh wait....nevermind
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:26:39 PM EDT
[#11]
If this even goes to trial the dude will get off!
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:29:09 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This looks more like a case where: the guy in black decides to go get a gun in an attempt to intimidate the guy in green into leaving Green shirt calls the bluff and chest bumping begins (black shirt doesn't act like he's concerned with weapon retention Black gets mad when he's spun into the yard and shoots green shirt Black was just made out to be chump in front of his girlfriend. Green shirt guy established he was the alfa of the two. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:32:30 PM EDT
[#13]
So the simp is an active participant in denying a father his court ordered visitation rights?
Ya fuck that guy and fuck his "property rights" too. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:35:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Rekieta Law stream gonna do their take on this.
 Chad Read Shooting and the Kim Potter Trial Preview |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:44:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is that whole fingers & opposable thumb thing humans use to grab with. His PALM is downward facing the entire time. He raised his forearm (while keeping his palm DOWN at all times) to move rifle muzzle away from him. Since his wrist never twisted or rolled to put the palm UPward to "Grab" anything, please explain how he "Grabbed" the rifle with the top of his hand? Maybe Velcro or Duct Tape or a he sprayed a bunch of "Stick'um" or what ... ... ... ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't see that at all in your gif. I see him push up with the top of his wrist/arm? He's reaching for the mag and appears to make contact with it. There is that whole fingers & opposable thumb thing humans use to grab with. His PALM is downward facing the entire time. He raised his forearm (while keeping his palm DOWN at all times) to move rifle muzzle away from him. Since his wrist never twisted or rolled to put the palm UPward to "Grab" anything, please explain how he "Grabbed" the rifle with the top of his hand? Maybe Velcro or Duct Tape or a he sprayed a bunch of "Stick'um" or what ... ... ... ? Whatever terminology you want to use, it's clear to me the guy used his hands and fingers to (grab, grasp, hold) the shooter and the weapon in a manner that allowed him to pull the shooter towards him, spin him around 180 degrees, and launch him off the porch.    
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:46:46 PM EDT
[#16]
and.. as usual... it's the kid that suffers....
No way that relationship lasts... 'My new daddy killed my old daddy'.. Yeah, not gonna happen. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:48:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whatever terminology you want to use, it's clear to me the guy used his hands and fingers to (grab, grasp, hold) the shooter and the weapon in a manner that allowed him to pull the shooter towards him, spin him around 180 degrees, and launch him off the porch. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/367483/Screen_Shot_2021-11-26_at_10_52_53_AM-2181934.pnghttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/367483/Screen_Shot_2021-11-26_at_10_53_48_AM-2181935.pnghttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/367483/Screen_Shot_2021-11-26_at_10_53_21_AM-2181936.pnghttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/367483/Screen_Shot_2021-11-26_at_11_13_25_AM-2181938.png That’s AFTER the initial shot was fired. At this point you could see a self defense argument from the green shirt guy start Easiest way to avoid being involved in this stuff is to not introduce a gun when one isn’t needed And/or Don’t mess around with people that already have kids |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:54:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even if he is just staying there, it can be a legal residence. Granted most of that is a civil matter. Like right now, I'm at my girlfriends house. She's not here. She's not even in Texas. But if someone showed up that I didn't want here I could tell them to leave with force and be justified in doing so. If the actual owner of the property invited him over you certainly wouldn't, and she invited him over, so.... |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:55:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know if it was justifiable or not, but the guy in the blue shirt sure put a lot of effort into getting himself shot. That much I can tell you for sure. No one in the video even has a blue shirt
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:56:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretend for a second that your ex wife told you to come to her new boyfriend’s house to pick up your kids. When you get there, she gives you a song and dance about, “I want to see them. Come back at 6.” It’s a song and dance that she probably gives you a lot. She refuses to tell you where the kids are. Then the new boyfriend starts inserting himself into your domestic situation. Would you not be a little pissed that your ex wife is hiding your kids from you and your ex wife’s new boyfriend is getting between you and your kids? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Huh, apparently I'm in the minority that thinks that it's a bad idea to be threatening people in front of their house? Not sure how custody works, but I don't think trying to shove people around is a great way to try to get "your" way. Green shirt sure seemed to be an aggressive asshole. Even says the cops are on the way, so why not stop pushing around people? If the kid wasn't there, isn't that something for the cops or court to settle? Pretend for a second that your ex wife told you to come to her new boyfriend’s house to pick up your kids. When you get there, she gives you a song and dance about, “I want to see them. Come back at 6.” It’s a song and dance that she probably gives you a lot. She refuses to tell you where the kids are. Then the new boyfriend starts inserting himself into your domestic situation. Would you not be a little pissed that your ex wife is hiding your kids from you and your ex wife’s new boyfriend is getting between you and your kids? I leave and document it. I don't "man up" and try to start a fistfight. Call my lawyer, use it to fuck them. If I start shoving someone around on their own porch, then throw him off it, I don't claim surprise when I get extra holes. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:56:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the actual owner of the property invited him over you certainly wouldn't, and she invited him over, so.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Even if he is just staying there, it can be a legal residence. Granted most of that is a civil matter. Like right now, I'm at my girlfriends house. She's not here. She's not even in Texas. But if someone showed up that I didn't want here I could tell them to leave with force and be justified in doing so. If the actual owner of the property invited him over you certainly wouldn't, and she invited him over, so.... Where did she invite him over? |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:56:40 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm where you are at from a legal standpoint. He was asked to leave and refused. This meets trespass. Shooter had a legal right to be there and to be armed. He was within his right to use force at that point, but not deadly force. Dead guy then advanced on him, told him he was going to take his gun and use it on him, then grabbed, swatted, or whatever at the gun and then tossed the guy around. At this point I'd say he met the reasonable threshold of deadly force. Back it up 45 seconds and I would personally never have gotten involved outside of telling him to leave, telling GF to come inside, and then sit inside waiting for the police or him to leave. No need to go through anything further over a custody issue. It just seems from how Texas castle doctrine and stand your ground is written the guy is clear on this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm not gonna lie, if someone tells me they're taking my gun from me, gets right up in my face, and I feel pressure on the gun... I'm assuming they've grabbed it. My eyes aren't where the camera is, I can't pause, pinch and zoom, slow down, or edit my real-time perception. This also isn't the only time dudes hands were in contact with the gun. Again, devils advocate. Just pointing out that his perception at the time might have been perfectly reasonable, which is the standard it should be judged against. This was brought up when discussion video evidence in the Rittenhouse trial, if we recall. He was asked to leave and refused. This meets trespass. Shooter had a legal right to be there and to be armed. He was within his right to use force at that point, but not deadly force. Dead guy then advanced on him, told him he was going to take his gun and use it on him, then grabbed, swatted, or whatever at the gun and then tossed the guy around. At this point I'd say he met the reasonable threshold of deadly force. Back it up 45 seconds and I would personally never have gotten involved outside of telling him to leave, telling GF to come inside, and then sit inside waiting for the police or him to leave. No need to go through anything further over a custody issue. It just seems from how Texas castle doctrine and stand your ground is written the guy is clear on this. This is where your train goes off the rails. If he has the right to use force, but not deadly force (I don't agree, but these were your words), he can't justify walking into the house and grabbing his rifle. He murdered the guy, plain and simple. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 3:59:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Maybe hes guilty. maybe hes not.
I do know that id not want to be in his shoes looking at charges. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:00:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where did she invite him over? As far as I'm aware she failed to drop off her kid per their custody agreement and asked him instead to come pick him up? As you can hear on the video, she says I wanted to see him one last time and then he screamed that she had until 3:45 to see him per the court order. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:03:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As far as I'm aware she failed to drop off her kid per their custody agreement and asked him instead to come pick him up? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Where did she invite him over? As far as I'm aware she failed to drop off her kid per their custody agreement and asked him instead to come pick him up? You're assuming things. obviously the kid was not there. So why would she tell him to come there to get him if he isn't there? |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:03:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe hes guilty. maybe hes not. I do know that id not want to be in his shoes looking at charges. Very true. Part of why we keep our gate closed. My godfather has an opener, anyone else call or honk and I *might* open the gate. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:05:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Straight up murder.
Of course for GD, it's a fantasy come true. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:06:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe hes guilty. maybe hes not. I do know that id not want to be in his shoes looking at charges. And that's ignoring the fact that you just killed a man who was there to see his kid, and who prior to you introducing a gun the only thing threatened was subpoenas. This isn't some scumbag robber/rapist who constantly victimizes others, this is a man you know who is merely trespassing for what he perceives as a valid reason. Who wants that on their conscience, even if it's totally legal and the guy was an idiot/asshole? |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:08:20 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryNipple rubbing…. LOL |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:08:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Imo this is a case of who was more wrong, then who was right.
Im no expert on TX self defense laws, but I'll be shocked if the home owner escapes prison over it. The warning shot is the key point of escalation as it was the turning point of a verbal fight to ultimately a shooting, depending on how TX law is written about that part will ultimate decide the rest, would be my assumption. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:11:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Saw the footage last night. Looked like a bad shoot to me.
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:13:00 PM EDT
[#32]
When assholes collided
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:15:00 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is where your train goes off the rails. If he has the right to use force, but not deadly force (I don't agree, but these were your words), he can't justify walking into the house and grabbing his rifle. He murdered the guy, plain and simple. What else is on your arbitrary list of times when you aren't within your legal rights to arm yourself and defend yourself on your own property? Mine is pretty short - if lawfully ordered by authorities. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:15:10 PM EDT
[#34]
All legal considerations aside… I can’t imagine myself shooting that guy under those circumstances.
I can’t imagine going inside and getting a gun. Not sure why he felt that was necessary. Generally, not killing people during disputes makes life a lot simpler. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:17:39 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're assuming things. obviously the kid was not there. So why would she tell him to come there to get him if he isn't there? Correct, I was also basing that on the guys attorney never mentioning that he wasn’t invited, which would seem like the first thing you would say if he wasn’t. But then again, it looks like the property is the shooters parents not his mistresses, so a good example of the reason not to jump to conclusions. Either way, that guy is real scumbag. EDIT: I would not want to be on the stand under cross and have to explain this picture. 
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:18:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And that's ignoring the fact that you just killed a man who was there to see his kid, and who prior to you introducing a gun the only thing threatened was subpoenas. This isn't some scumbag robber/rapist who constantly victimizes others, this is a man you know who is merely trespassing for what he perceives as a valid reason. Who wants that on their conscience, even if it's totally legal and the guy was an idiot/asshole? Dude "just looking for his kid" had every opportunity to leave the place that wasn't his. Doesn't seem to be at all willing to leave and take it to the family court or whoever it is that has oversight on custody agreements. Sure seemed okay with fighting. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:20:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imo this is a case of who was more wrong, then who was right. Im no expert on TX self defense laws, but I'll be shocked if the home owner escapes prison over it. The warning shot is the key point of escalation as it was the turning point of a verbal fight to ultimately a shooting, depending on how TX law is written about that part will ultimate decide the rest, would be my assumption. I agree with you. TX doesn’t have “warning shot” in the penal code. They pound this into your head in carry class that there are no warning shots in Texas. It could land him with more charges or make him the aggressor from that point on. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:21:20 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Straight up murder. Of course for GD, it's a fantasy come true. That was Joe Horn. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:23:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct, I was also basing that on the guys attorney never mentioning that he wasn’t invited, which would seem like the first thing you would say if he wasn’t. But then again, it looks like the property is the shooters parents not his mistresses, so a good example of the reason not to jump to conclusions. Either way, that guy is real scumbag. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You're assuming things. obviously the kid was not there. So why would she tell him to come there to get him if he isn't there? Correct, I was also basing that on the guys attorney never mentioning that he wasn’t invited, which would seem like the first thing you would say if he wasn’t. But then again, it looks like the property is the shooters parents not his mistresses, so a good example of the reason not to jump to conclusions. Either way, that guy is real scumbag. That's the shitty thing here, we don't have all the information. Knowing attorneys I don't expect things to be told by them if it could be something to help their case in court. Who owns the property has no factor here under Texas law. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:24:31 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I leave and document it. I don't "man up" and try to start a fistfight. Call my lawyer, use it to fuck them. If I start shoving someone around on their own porch, then throw him off it, I don't claim surprise when I get extra holes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Huh, apparently I'm in the minority that thinks that it's a bad idea to be threatening people in front of their house? Not sure how custody works, but I don't think trying to shove people around is a great way to try to get "your" way. Green shirt sure seemed to be an aggressive asshole. Even says the cops are on the way, so why not stop pushing around people? If the kid wasn't there, isn't that something for the cops or court to settle? Pretend for a second that your ex wife told you to come to her new boyfriend’s house to pick up your kids. When you get there, she gives you a song and dance about, “I want to see them. Come back at 6.” It’s a song and dance that she probably gives you a lot. She refuses to tell you where the kids are. Then the new boyfriend starts inserting himself into your domestic situation. Would you not be a little pissed that your ex wife is hiding your kids from you and your ex wife’s new boyfriend is getting between you and your kids? I leave and document it. I don't "man up" and try to start a fistfight. Call my lawyer, use it to fuck them. If I start shoving someone around on their own porch, then throw him off it, I don't claim surprise when I get extra holes. Green shirt wasn’t trying to start a fist fight until black shirt brought out the gun and pulled the “get off my lawn” routine. He was doing a whole lot of yelling about calling the cops and hauling the ex wife into court. And as many people who have been through similar games pointed out, you calling your lawyer will probably result in nothing. You and ex wife go before a judge, judge tells ex wife she has to follow the court order, she says she will, she pulls the same stunt the next time you go to pick up your kids, rinse and repeat. I’m not saying green shirt was smart about anything. Obviously doing the monkey dance with a guy holding a rifle is weapons grade stupid. I’m saying there is a reason green shirt was there and pissed off. It’s not like he want to black shirts house randomly to start something. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:24:50 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still has the right to arm himself and defend himself if needed. What else is on your arbitrary list of times when you aren't within your legal rights to arm yourself and defend yourself on your own property? Mine is pretty short - if lawfully ordered by authorities. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is where your train goes off the rails. If he has the right to use force, but not deadly force (I don't agree, but these were your words), he can't justify walking into the house and grabbing his rifle. He murdered the guy, plain and simple. What else is on your arbitrary list of times when you aren't within your legal rights to arm yourself and defend yourself on your own property? Mine is pretty short - if lawfully ordered by authorities. If needed... The guy was threatening to take him to court
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:27:36 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the shitty thing here, we don't have all the information. Knowing attorneys I don't expect things to be told by them if it could be something to help their case in court. Who owns the property has no factor here under Texas law. I don’t want to misquote you here. Are you saying in TX if someone who doesn’t own the property tells you to leave, it doesn’t matter that you have permission from the actual owner? |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:28:05 PM EDT
[#43]
Rekieta seems to be well onto team Kyle (black shirt) so far.
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:29:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A court order does not have force of law in Texas? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anyone posted the relevant law on kidnapping? https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.20.htm The shooters actions appear to meet both criteria for abduction, though only one is required. The shooter is not a relative of the child, by the definition in this section, and since it was in violation of a court order, the intent to assume control was not lawful. A case could also be made for aggravated kidnapping, by (a)(5) since there seems to be evidence they intended to terrorize the father, and by (b) since the shooter used deadly force during the commission. The kid wasn't even there and he wasn't keeping anyone from anyone. Your analysis is quite literally garbage. That's the point. The kid wasn't there. They took the kid somewhere else, in violation of a court order. You're either ignoring my point on purpose or just are missing it entirely. Assuming the court order stated they were to exchange at that time and place, one party not holding up their end of the deal isn't even in the same universe as kidnapping. You trying to equate it to aggravated kidnapping is just absolutely garbage. A court order does not have force of law in Texas? Not holding up your end of a court ordered custody arrangement does NOT even come close to equating to kidnapping, let alone aggravated kidnapping. I'm going to assume you're being purposely ignorant now. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:33:28 PM EDT
[#45]
You wanna see something that magically turns grown adults into retards, get dispatched to a child custody call sometime.
You fuck her/him, you deal with the consequences. Civil matter. In my state court orders for custody mean NOTHING to law enforcement and are unenforceable without a law enforcement clause which are very rare. Dude should of fucked off the property and crawled up her ass with a bloodsucking family attorney. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:33:30 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t want to misquote you here. Are you saying in TX if someone who doesn’t own the property tells you to leave, it doesn’t matter that you have permission from the actual owner? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's the shitty thing here, we don't have all the information. Knowing attorneys I don't expect things to be told by them if it could be something to help their case in court. Who owns the property has no factor here under Texas law. I don’t want to misquote you here. Are you saying in TX if someone who doesn’t own the property tells you to leave, it doesn’t matter that you have permission from the actual owner? That wouldn't be allowed. If you have permission from the owner. At the same time it's not an easy answer. There are a lot of factors in it all. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:34:25 PM EDT
[#47]
If you retreat into your house and then come back with a gun, guess what, you are now the aggressor.
Had dead guy followed you in the house then at that point its game on. If you were really in such fear that you thought you needed a gun then you should have stayed inside with said gun once you got it. Going back outside with a gun after you had escaped the situation you were in fear of in the first place is what is sending this shooter to prison for a long time. Some of you need to brush up on the law. You cant shoot some unarmed guy for not leaving your property without catching a felony murder case. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:35:31 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That wouldn't be allowed. If you have permission from the owner. At the same time it's not an easy answer. There are a lot of factors in it all. Gotcha. Looks like the opposite MAY have been the case anyways, so not applicable. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:38:26 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Straight up murder. Of course for GD, it's a fantasy come true. Please move to NY. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 4:39:17 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gotcha. Looks like the opposite MAY have been the case anyways, so not applicable. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That wouldn't be allowed. If you have permission from the owner. At the same time it's not an easy answer. There are a lot of factors in it all. Gotcha. Looks like the opposite MAY have been the case anyways, so not applicable. Under Texas law the owner versus the possessors of property create a gray line. There are a whole lot of factors in this situation. And unfortunately a lot of information we don't know. |
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