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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:15:50 AM EST
[#1]
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:20:21 AM EST
[#2]
BGs wear police uniforms.
A California cop killed a man because he thought his Glock was a Taser. A NY cop shot another NY cop because one of them was not up to speed on the UC recognition signal of the day. Search warrants are executed with dynamic entry on houses that for one reason or another (wrong address, unreliable informant, et c.) shouldn't be searched at all. People make mistakes. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:20:30 AM EST
[#3]
You really ought to put more of the story into the OP. There's a lot missing.
Roach again shouted for Thomas to get down on the ground, and while Thomas this time got on his stomach, he said he kept squirming to watch Roach approach, still not sure he was a lawman. He had noted Roach got out of a Tahoe with tinted windows, not a squad car.
Suddenly he felt Roach's knee in his back, and when the officer grabbed his wrist to handcuff him, Thomas saw tattoos on the officer's forearms. "I'm like, this is not an officer. And that is when the struggle ensued," Thomas said. Who fired first is a matter of contention, but Roach's pistol malfunctioned after one shot and ejected the clip. Thomas emptied his final three shots into Roach, who was able to hit Thomas with his pistol and wrestle him back to the ground. "I was just fighting for my life, and I was just struggling to get his gun," Roach said. "An officer's worst nightmare is to draw a weapon and it doesn't fire." The larger Thomas soon was atop Roach, who was trying to turn the muzzle of Thomas' gun away from his face. "I said, 'Don't move or I will kill you,' " Thomas said. Donald Melvin, a 64-year-old Decatur contractor, and his wife watched the struggle from their car across the street. He feared that Roach was about to be killed and thought of his own son, a DeKalb County police officer. A Vietnam War veteran, Melvin stepped on the gas and drove his Pathfinder's bumper into Thomas' back. But not even that could stop the struggle. Melvin said he next tried to pull Thomas off the officer. "He started telling me [Roach] is not a police officer, and I told him he was a police officer ... don't you see that shirt?" Melvin said. Hey, we could make this a tattoo thread. It's Friday, after all. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:24:23 AM EST
[#4]
Quoted:
BGs wear police uniforms. A California cop killed a man because he thought his Glock was a Taser. A NY cop shot another NY cop because one of them was not up to speed on the UC recognition signal of the day. Search warrants are executed with dynamic entry on houses that for one reason or another (wrong address, unreliable informant, et c.) shouldn't be searched at all. People make mistakes. Yes, but some animals are more equal than others. __________________________________________________________________ Cross-platform gun database/electronic bound book (v1.3.2) (and the original thread). «nolite confidere in principibus, in filiis hominum quibus non est salus» |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:26:41 AM EST
[#5]
Tough situation, but I wouldn't convict if I were on the Jury
Roach again shouted for Thomas to get down on the ground, and while Thomas this time got on his stomach, he said he kept squirming to watch Roach approach, still not sure he was a lawman. He had noted Roach got out of a Tahoe with tinted windows, not a squad car. Suddenly he felt Roach's knee in his back, and when the officer grabbed his wrist to handcuff him, Thomas saw tattoos on the officer's forearms. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:26:56 AM EST
[#6]
unless the rest of the robbery crew were dressed as cops, I don't think the storeowner's argument has much merit.
However, it seems that the storeowner did manage to convince himself the cop was a bad guy. people do weird things under pressure; cops shoot other cops sometimes, too. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:29:56 AM EST
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
BGs wear police uniforms. A California cop killed a man because he thought his Glock was a Taser. A NY cop shot another NY cop because one of them was not up to speed on the UC recognition signal of the day. Search warrants are executed with dynamic entry on houses that for one reason or another (wrong address, unreliable informant, et c.) shouldn't be searched at all. People make mistakes. Yes, but some animals are more equal than others. __________________________________________________________________ Cross-platform gun database/electronic bound book (v1.3.2) (and the original thread). «nolite confidere in principibus, in filiis hominum quibus non est salus» This. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:31:16 AM EST
[#8]
I wonder if the store guy routinely shoots officers responding to crimes at his store.
edit: I misread where it took place. nevermind |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:31:44 AM EST
[#9]
Quoted: I wonder if the store guy routinely shoots officers responding to crimes at his store. It wasn't at his store. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:32:22 AM EST
[#10]
Quoted:
I wonder if the store guy routinely shoots officers responding to crimes at his store. I wonder if responding officers routinely show up to his store alone, in a POV, and before anyone calls 911. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:33:51 AM EST
[#11]
Officers should not be driving around with tinted windows
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:35:50 AM EST
[#12]
not sure I would convict this guy and sentence him to 25 years in jail...
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:36:59 AM EST
[#13]
Quoted:
Tough situation, but I wouldn't convict if I were on the Jury Roach again shouted for Thomas to get down on the ground, and while Thomas this time got on his stomach, he said he kept squirming to watch Roach approach, still not sure he was a lawman. He had noted Roach got out of a Tahoe with tinted windows, not a squad car.
Suddenly he felt Roach's knee in his back, and when the officer grabbed his wrist to handcuff him, Thomas saw tattoos on the officer's forearms.
I gotta agree. If the facts are as stated, I can't fault the guy for assuming the cop is part of the crew. People make mistakes. A police uniform is not, necessarily, the universal "good guy" beacon when any thug can get one off the internet. A marked patrol car, loud sirens and lights, backup and uniform? Probably a better indicator. I find it difficult to believe the guy was earnestly trying to kill someone he firmly believed was a police officer. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:37:24 AM EST
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
BGs wear police uniforms. A California cop killed a man because he thought his Glock was a Taser. A NY cop shot another NY cop because one of them was not up to speed on the UC recognition signal of the day. Search warrants are executed with dynamic entry on houses that for one reason or another (wrong address, unreliable informant, et c.) shouldn't be searched at all. People make mistakes. Yes, but some animals are more equal than others. __________________________________________________________________ Cross-platform gun database/electronic bound book (v1.3.2) (and the original thread). «nolite confidere in principibus, in filiis hominum quibus non est salus» This. I love being more equal. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:38:00 AM EST
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wonder if the store guy routinely shoots officers responding to crimes at his store. I wonder if responding officers routinely show up to his store alone, in a POV, and before anyone calls 911. That's what I thought. I appreciate the fact that the cop was doing his duty but this whole thing sounds like a "fog of war" incident and not something where charges are justified. If you're a cop in your POV you are still a cop but are not at all recognizeable as a good guy. Sounds like the cop needed to do some training with his pistol. It said he fired one round and ejected the mag (not locked into place?). |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:39:29 AM EST
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wonder if the store guy routinely shoots officers responding to crimes at his store. It wasn't at his store. True, I misread that when I skimmed the article |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:40:41 AM EST
[#17]
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:41:12 AM EST
[#18]
The store owner's story is completely plausible.
Odd vehicle, Tattoo's on arms, strange circumstances of supposed officer's arrival. Were I on the jury I would say reasonable doubt was met, unless there is some serious flaws in his testimony. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:42:02 AM EST
[#19]
Quoted:
Tough situation, but I wouldn't convict if I were on the Jury Just based on the little info in this thread I wouldn't either. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:42:04 AM EST
[#20]
Reason number 5467 why I don't get involved off duty.
Quoted:
A NY cop shot another NY cop because one of them was not up to speed on the UC recognition signal of the day. Probably because most plainclothes guys don't wear it. As for UCs, I've NEVER seen a UC wear it. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:43:39 AM EST
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wonder if the store guy routinely shoots officers responding to crimes at his store. I wonder if responding officers routinely show up to his store alone, in a POV, and before anyone calls 911. That's what I thought. I appreciate the fact that the cop was doing his duty but this whole thing sounds like a "fog of war" incident and not something where charges are justified. If you're a cop in your POV you are still a cop but are not at all recognizeable as a good guy. Sounds like the cop needed to do some training with his pistol. It said he fired one round and ejected the mag (not locked into place?). It really does. The Officer inserted himself into an already unfortunate situation and made it worse. He's lucky to be alive. 
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:45:13 AM EST
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
A NY cop shot another NY cop because one of them was not up to speed on the UC recognition signal of the day. Probably because most plainclothes guys don't wear it. As for UCs, I've NEVER seen a UC wear it. Can't say I blame them. If there's a universal sign that you're a UC cop, I imagine there's also a universal method to get that information if you're a criminal. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:45:55 AM EST
[#23]
As bad as it sounds, I'd give the guy a slap on the wrist.
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:47:13 AM EST
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A NY cop shot another NY cop because one of them was not up to speed on the UC recognition signal of the day. Probably because most plainclothes guys don't wear it. As for UCs, I've NEVER seen a UC wear it. Can't say I blame them. If there's a universal sign that you're a UC cop, I imagine there's also a universal method to get that information if you're a criminal. It's not hard, one of our local hip hop radio stations used to broadcast it over the air everyday. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:49:11 AM EST
[#25]
BG's dressed as cops are one thing but how many have the full uniform, badge etc. I thought the BG's only used the shirts or jackets with POLICE on them.
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:50:13 AM EST
[#26]
Quoted:
The store owner's story is completely plausible. Odd vehicle, Tattoo's on arms, strange circumstances of supposed officer's arrival. Were I on the jury I would say reasonable doubt was met, unless there is some serious flaws in his testimony. +1 Not guilty. It's worth noting that if the cop hadn't hit his mag release, Thomas would probably be dead. The cop made a mistake in identification just as much as Thomas did. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:52:46 AM EST
[#27]
A bad situation for all involved.
I do believe it was a mistake after being setup for an ambush. It however was a very big mistake. Plus, how the hell did the officer manage to eject his clip after firing a shot? I've never encounter that type of malfunction, but then again I have never been in a struggle with someone else that has a gun.
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:53:55 AM EST
[#28]
Quoted:
It's not hard, one of our local hip hop radio stations used to broadcast it over the air everyday.  wow, doesn't seem to be a point in doing it then.
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:54:21 AM EST
[#29]
Quoted: You really ought to put more of the story into the OP. There's a lot missing. Roach again shouted for Thomas to get down on the ground, and while Thomas this time got on his stomach, he said he kept squirming to watch Roach approach, still not sure he was a lawman. He had noted Roach got out of a Tahoe with tinted windows, not a squad car. Suddenly he felt Roach's knee in his back, and when the officer grabbed his wrist to handcuff him, Thomas saw tattoos on the officer's forearms. "I'm like, this is not an officer. And that is when the struggle ensued," Thomas said. Who fired first is a matter of contention, but Roach's pistol malfunctioned after one shot and ejected the clip. Thomas emptied his final three shots into Roach, who was able to hit Thomas with his pistol and wrestle him back to the ground. "I was just fighting for my life, and I was just struggling to get his gun," Roach said. "An officer's worst nightmare is to draw a weapon and it doesn't fire." The larger Thomas soon was atop Roach, who was trying to turn the muzzle of Thomas' gun away from his face. "I said, 'Don't move or I will kill you,' " Thomas said. Donald Melvin, a 64-year-old Decatur contractor, and his wife watched the struggle from their car across the street. He feared that Roach was about to be killed and thought of his own son, a DeKalb County police officer. A Vietnam War veteran, Melvin stepped on the gas and drove his Pathfinder's bumper into Thomas' back. But not even that could stop the struggle. Melvin said he next tried to pull Thomas off the officer. "He started telling me [Roach] is not a police officer, and I told him he was a police officer ... don't you see that shirt?" Melvin said. Hey, we could make this a tattoo thread. It's Friday, after all. Obviously that article is bogus; they said "clip". I would not vote for conviction. Mistakes were made and both men are lucky to be alive.
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:55:45 AM EST
[#30]
Quoted:
A bad situation for all involved. I do believe it was a mistake after being setup for an ambush. It however was a very big mistake. Plus, how the hell did the officer manage to eject his clip after firing a shot? I've never encounter that type of malfunction, but then again I have never been in a struggle with someone else that has a gun. If you don't slam home the mag you can still chamber a round but it may or may not be caught on the mag catch. I've done it. You look like an imbecile when you fire the first shot and your mag falls to the floor. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:56:32 AM EST
[#31]
"It is a hard case for that young man, and I hate to see it be that way," Melvin said. "You can't say how scared he was or why he couldn't understand the guy was a police officer. But if he doesn't go to jail, it will look like he can shoot a police officer and get away with it."
So, in other words, "It's not about justice, it's about authority." 
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:56:36 AM EST
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wonder if the store guy routinely shoots officers responding to crimes at his store. I wonder if responding officers routinely show up to his store alone, in a POV, and before anyone calls 911. That's what I thought. I appreciate the fact that the cop was doing his duty but this whole thing sounds like a "fog of war" incident and not something where charges are justified. If you're a cop in your POV you are still a cop but are not at all recognizeable as a good guy. Sounds like the cop needed to do some training with his pistol. It said he fired one round and ejected the mag (not locked into place?). I'm kind of interested in what tats the officer had that made the guy think he wasn't a cop. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:56:49 AM EST
[#33]
So an unmarked tinted window Tahoe is an unusual vehicle?
Not so sure about that. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:57:24 AM EST
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: A bad situation for all involved. I do believe it was a mistake after being setup for an ambush. It however was a very big mistake. Plus, how the hell did the officer manage to eject his clip after firing a shot? I've never encounter that type of malfunction, but then again I have never been in a struggle with someone else that has a gun. If you don't slam home the mag you can still chamber a round but it may or may not be caught on the mag catch. I've done it. You look like an imbecile when you fire the first shot and your mag falls to the floor. My S&W Sigma used to drop the mag after 1-2 shots... Sent if off to S&W twice to get fixed, same problem... Pissed me off, lasted only a week after I got it back the 2nd time before I sold it. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:57:28 AM EST
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's not hard, one of our local hip hop radio stations used to broadcast it over the air everyday. Wow, doesn't seem to be a point in doing it then. Probably why most don't. I rarely did when I was in plainclothes. We only put it on if we were responding to a job or backing someone up. (or if the boss was around  )
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Posted: 2/10/2012 4:58:49 AM EST
[#36]
A bit off topic and maybe out in leftfield but, can they drop the charges against the shooter and attach those charges to the actual robbers who caused this entire clusterfuck to happen?
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Posted: 2/10/2012 5:00:52 AM EST
[#37]
Quoted:
"It is a hard case for that young man, and I hate to see it be that way," Melvin said. "You can't say how scared he was or why he couldn't understand the guy was a police officer. But if he doesn't go to jail, it will look like he can shoot a police officer and get away with it."
So, in other words, "It's not about justice, it's about authority." The authoritay, it must be respected.
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Posted: 2/10/2012 5:01:30 AM EST
[#38]
Damn.
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Posted: 2/10/2012 5:01:48 AM EST
[#39]
Quoted:
A bit off topic and maybe out in leftfield but, can they drop the charges against the shooter and attach those charges to the actual robbers who caused this entire clusterfuck to happen? More than likely they already charged them with the shootings. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 5:02:49 AM EST
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
A bit off topic and maybe out in leftfield but, can they drop the charges against the shooter and attach those charges to the actual robbers who caused this entire clusterfuck to happen? More than likely they already charged them with the shootings. I see, thanks for the info. So, maybe letting this guy off, in this UNUSUAL situation might not send the wrong message afterall? ETA: I mean, it is the actual robbers who are responsible for all of this IMHO. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 5:03:06 AM EST
[#41]
Quoted:
BGs wear police uniforms. A California cop killed a man because he thought his Glock was a Taser. A NY cop shot another NY cop because one of them was not up to speed on the UC recognition signal of the day. Search warrants are executed with dynamic entry on houses that for one reason or another (wrong address, unreliable informant, et c.) shouldn't be searched at all. People make mistakes. And he was amped up as fuck from just being in a gunfight. A real case of tunnel vision. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 5:04:25 AM EST
[#42]
What kind of uniform was he wearing, the old fashion kind everyone knows what looks like one or the polo shirt with a yellow star kind? If it was the old fashion kind his story is hard to believe but could be true. If it was just a polo shirt it is completely understandable that in the heat of the moment he didn't know it was a cop.
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Posted: 2/10/2012 5:06:04 AM EST
[#43]
Quoted:
What kind of uniform was he wearing, the old fashion kind everyone knows what looks like one or the polo shirt with a yellow star kind? If it was the old fashion kind his story is hard to believe but could be true. If it was just a polo shirt it is completely understandable that in the heat of the moment he didn't know it was a cop. The story makes me assume it is the standard blue uniform we all know. The shooter was in a state of panic and totally afraid. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 5:06:34 AM EST
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A bit off topic and maybe out in leftfield but, can they drop the charges against the shooter and attach those charges to the actual robbers who caused this entire clusterfuck to happen? More than likely they already charged them with the shootings. I see, thanks for the info. So, maybe letting this guy off, in this UNUSUAL situation might not send the wrong message afterall? ETA: I mean, it is the actual robbers who are responsible for all of this IMHO. Yeah I think the thing that is getting him is he at first submitted to the taking into custody, then he fought back and shot the cop. Everyone else in the area seemed to know the guy was a cop. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 5:09:49 AM EST
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A bit off topic and maybe out in leftfield but, can they drop the charges against the shooter and attach those charges to the actual robbers who caused this entire clusterfuck to happen? More than likely they already charged them with the shootings. I see, thanks for the info. So, maybe letting this guy off, in this UNUSUAL situation might not send the wrong message afterall? ETA: I mean, it is the actual robbers who are responsible for all of this IMHO. Yeah I think the thing that is getting him is he at first submitted to the taking into custody, then he fought back and shot the cop. Everyone else in the area seemed to know the guy was a cop. But what other reason could he have had to shoot the cop other than he eventually thought the cop was a fake? I know it is nuts to us but the guy was in a panic and made the wrong interpretation. The guy had no criminal record and was being robbed, so I say maybe in this UNUSUAL situation they let him go and make that very well understood in news stories, etc. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 5:12:23 AM EST
[#46]
Quoted: The store owner's story is completely plausible. Odd vehicle, Tattoo's on arms, strange circumstances of supposed officer's arrival. Were I on the jury I would say reasonable doubt was met, unless there is some serious flaws in his testimony. This. Despite this being 2012 and "inked Americans" becoming more and more common, the common public perception is that people in public safety positions should not have visible tattoos. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 5:12:33 AM EST
[#47]
I think it's just as important to note that the cop mistook the store worker for a robber in the first place. Understandable, but so is what the store owner thought. The cop should have clearly identified himself and probably even waited for marked backup.
I would not convict. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 5:15:04 AM EST
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
BGs wear police uniforms. A California cop killed a man because he thought his Glock was a Taser. A NY cop shot another NY cop because one of them was not up to speed on the UC recognition signal of the day. Search warrants are executed with dynamic entry on houses that for one reason or another (wrong address, unreliable informant, et c.) shouldn't be searched at all. People make mistakes. Yes, but some animals are more equal than others. __________________________________________________________________ Cross-platform gun database/electronic bound book (v1.3.2) (and the original thread). «nolite confidere in principibus, in filiis hominum quibus non est salus» Yes, which is why I steadfastly oppose the automatic assumption that just because a guy is a cop, that he is ALWAYS right in the eyes of the court. If he got shot by someone who had a reasonable reason to shoot him.........they should be afforded the same protection that the cop is. Either we are all equal, or our system is broken and I am no longer required to participate. Choose. You don't get to be "special" in this land. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 5:15:29 AM EST
[#49]
Quoted:
not sure I would convict this guy and sentence him to 25 years in jail... I dont think I could either. I can see how it could happen. I think he believed at the time his life was in danger. He wasnt setting out to shoot cops, he was yelling to call cops.Soon after the scam went wrong some dude dressed in uniform steps out of a tahoe with tinted windows. No telling what was going through his mind. |
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Posted: 2/10/2012 5:15:30 AM EST
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A bit off topic and maybe out in leftfield but, can they drop the charges against the shooter and attach those charges to the actual robbers who caused this entire clusterfuck to happen? More than likely they already charged them with the shootings. I see, thanks for the info. So, maybe letting this guy off, in this UNUSUAL situation might not send the wrong message afterall? ETA: I mean, it is the actual robbers who are responsible for all of this IMHO. Yeah I think the thing that is getting him is he at first submitted to the taking into custody, then he fought back and shot the cop. Everyone else in the area seemed to know the guy was a cop. But what other reason could he have had to shoot the cop other than he eventually thought the cop was a fake? I know it is nuts to us but the guy was in a panic and made the wrong interpretation. The guy had no criminal record and was being robbed, so I say maybe in this UNUSUAL situation they let him go and make that very well understood in news stories, etc. The only standard they should use is the "reasonable person" standard. Would a reasonable person in that situation have made the same conclusion. A photo of the cop in his clothes that day would go a long way to answering that. ETA - Maybe he needed a better lawyer. |
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