Ga. shooting suspect 'thought cop was criminal' - cop resonded off duty to shot fired full uniform - Page 3

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Ga. shooting suspect 'thought cop was criminal' - cop resonded off duty to shot fired full uniform (Page 3 of 10)

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:09:10 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
If frogs have wings they wouldn't have a sore ass.

Officer DID misidentify robbers, store owner DID doubt the identity of the officer. Both are reasonable mistakes, only one of them is facing jail though.

Officer identified a guy with a gun after hearing shots fired - he had no way of knowing if the guy with the gun was the suspect or victim. Store owner/employee misidentified a guy in a police uniform. Just a slight difference.

FTR - I agree with Bama that the problem for the store owner is that he starting fighting back AFTER he submitted and then saw tattoos. Not sure I'd convict on charges that could result in 25 years based on the story as presented.

Brian

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:09:35 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:

So an unmarked tinted window Tahoe is an unusual vehicle?

Not so sure about that.

It's not an unusual vehicle in itself. However, I am willing to bet that the number of tinted windowed tahoes carrying off duty cops in uniform is substantially less than the number of tinted windowed tahoes driven by non-cops.

Just a thought. If I call in a robbery, and the truck showing up isn't marked, lighted, and uniformed cop gets out............yeah...i'd be suspicious as fuck too. Especially if the guy got out and looked like a banger who bought a uniform.

Guys, when you remove symbols of who you are in order to mask who you are, don't be surprised when people don't know who you are.

Add to that, was it all blinged up or just a standard Tahoe? Our local cops have marked and unmarked hoes but they are quite different looking than say a 22" rimmed blinged up chromed up vehicle...which this officer may very well have as his POV.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:10:38 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Unless there is substantially more to the story I would be inclined to vote not guilty and hang the jury.

+1!

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:10:46 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Add to that, was it all blinged up or just a standard Tahoe? Our local cops have marked and unmarked hoes but they are quite different looking than say a 22" rimmed blinged up chromed up vehicle...which this officer may very well have as his POV.

Perpetuate stereotypes much?

Brian

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:12:51 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Add to that, was it all blinged up or just a standard Tahoe? Our local cops have marked and unmarked hoes but they are quite different looking than say a 22" rimmed blinged up chromed up vehicle...which this officer may very well have as his POV.

Perpetuate stereotypes much?

Brian

He had tattoos also.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:13:21 AM EDT

[#6]

Fake cops are all too common these days. In fact Judges and prosecutors can't even tell the difference, why should this man be held to a different standard?

Lebrak Morales Gomez is accused of claiming to be a Miami-Dade detective and securing the release of a man who belonged in jail
Feb 2, 2012

But in an embarrassing gaffe, authorities now say the cop seeking the criminal’s release that morning in April 2010 was no law enforcement officer. He was actually Lebrak Morales Gomez, 37, a Miami security guard and registered sex offender who was busted three weeks later in Miami-Dade for posing as a cop.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/02/09/2634041/south-fla-battle-brews-in-case.html

Fort Bend man charged with impersonating officer

Cole announced himself as a police officer and his uniform had the word "POLICE" on the front and back as well as law-enforcement patches on the sleeves, the guard told deputies.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Fort-Bend-man-charged-with-impersonating-officer-2752955.php

Woman accused of impersonating police officer arrested
February 4, 2012

A woman wearing a dark blue outfit and claiming to be a police officer ended up in the back of a Pasadena police cruiser Thursday for impersonating a law enforcement officer, according to Pasadena police.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/02/woman-accused-of-impersonating-police-officer-arrested.html

Fake cop talks his way into Clifton home
February 10, 2012

Wearing dark blue clothing that resembles a police uniform and carrying a "star-shaped" badge, the impersonator rang doorbells along Broad and Grove streets during late morning and early afternoon, detective Sgt. Robert Bracken said.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/139072959_Fake_cop_talks_his_way_into_City_home_.html

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:15:32 AM EDT

[#7]

ok, this want, Thomas is in a shoot out with BG's and cop pops around the corner and Thomas puts one into him before
he notices hes a cop.
Thomas saw a fully uniformed police officer get out of a truck that is a make and model of a standard issue police vehicle.
(he was clear minded enough to identify the truck the cop got out of, no fog of war)
Thomas is in the process of being handcuffed by a uniformed police officer when he decided to put three rounds into the cops chest.

reasonable doubt? really? everyone else in the area could tell it was a cop, even the guy across the street could tell it was a cop!
Thomas was nearly run over and shot by civilians because his line of thinking did not meet the standard of what a resonable
person would do.

prison, and lots of it.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:16:22 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If frogs have wings they wouldn't have a sore ass.

Officer DID misidentify robbers, store owner DID doubt the identity of the officer. Both are reasonable mistakes, only one of them is facing jail though.

Officer identified a guy with a gun after hearing shots fired - he had no way of knowing if the guy with the gun was the suspect or victim. Store owner/employee misidentified a guy in a police uniform. Just a slight difference.

FTR - I agree with Bama that the problem for the store owner is that he starting fighting back AFTER he submitted and then saw tattoos. Not sure I'd convict on charges that could result in 25 years based on the story as presented.

Brian

He fought back after he had more information causing him to doubt the officer was who he claimed to be and felt his life was in jeopardy by continuing to submit.

Not the cops fault, I'm not blaming him, but he ain't dead and he got shot BECAUSE he injected himself into a situation under circumstances that in NO WAY solidify the fact he actually was a police officer.

Again, not blaming the cop, but the guy has multiple legit reasons for his actions. And if he had killed the cop, in a complete error like this I would say manslaughter.

Reiterating: This is premised completely on the guy having a solid non-hinkey statement, as presented by the article.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:17:05 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

ok, this want, Thomas is in a shoot out with BG's and cop pops around the corner and Thomas puts one into him before

he notices hes a cop.

Thomas saw a fully uniformed police officer get out of a truck that is a make and model of a standard issue police vehicle.

(he was clear minded enough to identify the truck the cop got out of, no fog of war)

Thomas is in the process of being handcuffed by a uniformed police officer when he decided to put three rounds into the cops chest.

reasonable doubt? really? everyone else in the area could tell it was a cop, even the guy across the street could tell it was a cop!

Thomas was nearly run over and shot by civilians because his line of thinking did not meet the standard of what a resonable

person would do.

prison, and lots of it.

Did you read the story at all?

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:20:53 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wonder if the store guy routinely shoots officers responding to crimes at his store.

I wonder if responding officers routinely show up to his store alone, in a POV, and before anyone calls 911.

We quite frequently have uniformed officers in unmarked seized cars with blacked out windows that patrol our hot spots. Do you know how hard it is to catch criminals in the act in a marked Crown Vic with a lit up computer screen and a lightbar on top?

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:21:08 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
ok, this want, Thomas is in a shoot out with BG's and cop pops around the corner and Thomas puts one into him before
he notices hes a cop.
Thomas saw a fully uniformed police officer get out of a truck that is a make and model of a standard issue police vehicle.
(he was clear minded enough to identify the truck the cop got out of, no fog of war)
Thomas is in the process of being handcuffed by a uniformed police officer when he decided to put three rounds into the cops chest.

reasonable doubt? really? everyone else in the area could tell it was a cop, even the guy across the street could tell it was a cop!
Thomas was nearly run over and shot by civilians because his line of thinking did not meet the standard of what a resonable
person would do.

prison, and lots of it.

Did you read the story at all?

yes, the whole thing. did you? you really think that having a tat is cause to believe that the guy arresting you is not a cop?
enough cause to shoot him?

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:22:01 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
And this is why they build courthouses.

Yeah but do you go for a jury or judge trial in a situation like this?

There's very few situations I can think of where I would choose to go with a judge. I would take my chances with a jury by default.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:22:48 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wonder if the store guy routinely shoots officers responding to crimes at his store.

I wonder if responding officers routinely show up to his store alone, in a POV, and before anyone calls 911.

We quite frequently have uniformed officers in unmarked seized cars with blacked out windows that patrol our hot spots. Do you know how hard it is to catch criminals in the act in a marked Crown Vic with a lit up computer screen and a lightbar on top?

one of the countys in my area even has a 70's transam with flaming chicken for a squad car

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:22:57 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
ok, this want, Thomas is in a shoot out with BG's and cop pops around the corner and Thomas puts one into him before
he notices hes a cop.
Thomas saw a fully uniformed police officer get out of a truck that is a make and model of a standard issue police vehicle.
(he was clear minded enough to identify the truck the cop got out of, no fog of war)
Thomas is in the process of being handcuffed by a uniformed police officer when he decided to put three rounds into the cops chest.

reasonable doubt? really? everyone else in the area could tell it was a cop, even the guy across the street could tell it was a cop!
Thomas was nearly run over and shot by civilians because his line of thinking did not meet the standard of what a resonable
person would do.

prison, and lots of it.

Did you read the story at all?

yes, the whole thing. did you? you really think that having a tat is cause to believe that the guy arresting you is not a cop?
enough cause to shoot him?

All kidding aside because this is an UNUSUAL and sad story, what do you think the victim/shooter's reason was for shooting the cop?

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:23:23 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
And this is why they build courthouses.

Yeah but do you go for a jury or judge trial in a situation like this?

Jury?

I'm thinking judge.

After they put all the witnesses on stand, his uniform is displayed, pics of cop in the in the uniform, I have a feeling common folks are not going to buy the "fog of war" excuse.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:23:41 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Officers should not be driving around with tinted windows

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:24:01 AM EDT

[#17]

NOT GUILTY

1. Dudley Doright in his own POV without commo with HQ/Dispatch is flying blind. Did he have his full uniform on with all the accoutrements? In the old days ALL the cop cars were marked for a reason and this is it.
2. He pulled a gun on a private citizen who was a black man with a gun. Bet he will be more cautious with the next guy he sees with a gun.
3. Mens rea used to mean something back in the day. Look it up.
4. The DA must be a dick looking to show he is a law and order guy.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:24:09 AM EDT

[#18]

Sounds like self defense to me. The guy was panicked after being attacked by armed thieves, he's tackled by a guy who claims to be police but there's no police car and the tattoos make him look like a bad guy. The man clearly feared for his life, I think it was all quick reactions with no time to stop and think, just self defense.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:24:29 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
ok, this want, Thomas is in a shoot out with BG's and cop pops around the corner and Thomas puts one into him before
he notices hes a cop.
Thomas saw a fully uniformed police officer get out of a truck that is a make and model of a standard issue police vehicle.
(he was clear minded enough to identify the truck the cop got out of, no fog of war)
Thomas is in the process of being handcuffed by a uniformed police officer when he decided to put three rounds into the cops chest.

reasonable doubt? really? everyone else in the area could tell it was a cop, even the guy across the street could tell it was a cop!
Thomas was nearly run over and shot by civilians because his line of thinking did not meet the standard of what a resonable
person would do.

prison, and lots of it.

Did you read the story at all?

yes, the whole thing. did you? you really think that having a tat is cause to believe that the guy arresting you is not a cop?
enough cause to shoot him?

The cop probably shot first.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:24:53 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
And this is why they build courthouses.

Yeah but do you go for a jury or judge trial in a situation like this?

Jury?

I'm thinking judge.

After they put all the witnesses on stand, his uniform is displayed, pics of cop in the in the uniform, I have a feeling common folks are not going to buy the "fog of war" excuse.

You could be right.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:25:13 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Add to that, was it all blinged up or just a standard Tahoe? Our local cops have marked and unmarked hoes but they are quite different looking than say a 22" rimmed blinged up chromed up vehicle...which this officer may very well have as his POV.

While blinged out would cause the average person to heisitate, the full uniform thing is a tough hurdle.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:26:36 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If frogs have wings they wouldn't have a sore ass.

Officer DID misidentify robbers, store owner DID doubt the identity of the officer. Both are reasonable mistakes, only one of them is facing jail though.

Officer identified a guy with a gun after hearing shots fired - he had no way of knowing if the guy with the gun was the suspect or victim. Store owner/employee misidentified a guy in a police uniform. Just a slight difference.

FTR - I agree with Bama that the problem for the store owner is that he starting fighting back AFTER he submitted and then saw tattoos. Not sure I'd convict on charges that could result in 25 years based on the story as presented.

Brian

It sounds like the store owner never got a good look at the approaching officer, ie never got a full view of the uniform. The officer approached the store owner from behind, and went to cuff him, so all the store owner could see was a black tattooed arm.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:27:15 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:

ok, this want, Thomas is in a shoot out with BG's and cop pops around the corner and Thomas puts one into him before

he notices hes a cop.

Thomas saw a fully uniformed police officer get out of a truck that is a make and model of a standard issue police vehicle.

(he was clear minded enough to identify the truck the cop got out of, no fog of war)

Thomas is in the process of being handcuffed by a uniformed police officer when he decided to put three rounds into the cops chest.

reasonable doubt? really? everyone else in the area could tell it was a cop, even the guy across the street could tell it was a cop!

Thomas was nearly run over and shot by civilians because his line of thinking did not meet the standard of what a resonable

person would do.

prison, and lots of it.

Did you read the story at all?

yes, the whole thing. did you? you really think that having a tat is cause to believe that the guy arresting you is not a cop?

enough cause to shoot him?

You should learn to articulate yourself better.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:27:21 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Add to that, was it all blinged up or just a standard Tahoe? Our local cops have marked and unmarked hoes but they are quite different looking than say a 22" rimmed blinged up chromed up vehicle...which this officer may very well have as his POV.

While blinged out would cause the average person to heisitate, the full uniform thing is a tough hurdle.

Yes, but what other reason would the guy have had for shooting the cop?

He made a mistake. A big one but a mistake IMHO.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:28:12 AM EDT

[#25]

Officer presumably acting in good faith shoots what he perceived to be a threat (but in reality was not) a few weeks ago: Good to go!

Man presumably acting in good faith shoots what he perceived to be a threat (but in reality was not): Son of a bitch needs to go to jail!

I'm learning.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:29:36 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
NOT GUILTY

1. Dudley Doright in his own POV without commo with HQ/Dispatch is flying blind. Did he have his full uniform on with all the accoutrements? In the old days ALL the cop cars were marked for a reason and this is it.
2. He pulled a gun on a private citizen who was a black man with a gun. Bet he will be more cautious with the next guy he sees with a gun.
3. Mens rea used to mean something back in the day. Look it up.
4. The DA must be a dick looking to show he is a law and order guy.

Dudley Doright? Seriously? And would you believe they issue us RADIOS these days? Yeah, no kidding, I have a TAKE HOME RADIO. It's a $3500 thing of beauty, as I can talk to most anybody in the southern half of the state. That "Dudley Doright" got involved like a damn fine police officer should and would, and ended up shot 3 times for his trouble, while you and your internet bravado are sitting here bad mouthing him.

You're almost worth a friggin lock.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:30:42 AM EDT

[#27]

in AIT we were training on a FAST machine (big army video game with compressed air that shoots lasers at a screen)

one scenario involved taking contact with a group of civilians between us and the badguys, about half way through the scenario a figure dressed in all black ran up and grabbed a little kid and took off. i fired twice and hit the target in the head and chest (instant playback). in my mind i was shooting at a person trying to kidnap a child. in the scenario world i shot a woman wearing a burka trying to get her kid out of there after a fire fight.

the mind does crazy shit, its like the AK47 thread, a lot of times we see those as threats so a guy whos HR is around 200 after a gunfight that gets grabbed by a guy with tattoos fights for his life again. i belive it.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:32:58 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
ok, this want wasnt, Thomas is in a shoot out with BG's and cop pops around the corner and Thomas puts one into him before
he notices hes a cop.
Thomas saw a fully uniformed police officer get out of a truck that is a make and model of a standard issue police vehicle.
(he was clear minded enough to identify the truck the cop got out of, no fog of war)
Thomas is in the process of being handcuffed by a uniformed police officer when he decided to put three rounds into the cops chest.

reasonable doubt? really? everyone else in the area could tell it was a cop, even the guy across the street could tell it was a cop!
Thomas was nearly run over and shot by civilians because his line of thinking did not meet the standard of what a resonable
person would do.

prison, and lots of it.

Did you read the story at all?

yes, the whole thing. did you? you really think that having a tat is cause to believe that the guy arresting you is not a cop?
enough cause to shoot him?

You should learn to articulate yourself better.

i'm sorry that i missed a letter,
the strength of your argument is stagering...

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:33:16 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
in AIT we were training on a FAST machine (big army video game with compressed air that shoots lasers at a screen)

one scenario involved taking contact with a group of civilians between us and the badguys, about half way through the scenario a figure dressed in all black ran up and grabbed a little kid and took off. i fired twice and hit the target in the head and chest (instant playback). in my mind i was shooting at a person trying to kidnap a child. in the scenario world i shot a woman wearing a burka trying to get her kid out of there after a fire fight.

the mind does crazy shit, its like the AK47 thread, a lot of times we see those as threats so a guy whos HR is around 200 after a gunfight that gets grabbed by a guy with tattoos fights for his life again. i belive it.

That's a pretty good point.

For me, situations like that DO make the mind do "surprising" stuff IMHO.

The FEAR and quickness you think you have to act results in some bad outcomes sometimes IMHO.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:33:35 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Sounds like self defense to me. The guy was panicked after being attacked by armed thieves, he's tackled by a guy who claims to be police but there's no police car and the tattoos make him look like a bad guy. The man clearly feared for his life, I think it was all quick reactions with no time to stop and think, just self defense.

From the linked article:

Roach again shouted for Thomas to get down on the ground, and while Thomas this time got on his stomach, he said he kept squirming to watch Roach approach, still not sure he was a lawman. He had noted Roach got out of a Tahoe with tinted windows, not a squad car.

Suddenly he felt Roach's knee in his back, and when the officer grabbed his wrist to handcuff him, Thomas saw tattoos on the officer's forearms.

"I'm like, this is not an officer. And that is when the struggle ensued," Thomas said.

Not sure self defense really flies AFTER you got down on the ground. If Roach noticed the vehicle make/model he should have been observant enough to see the uniform. I'd really like to see a pic of the officer in exactly what he was wearing that day.

I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt and tend to agree that the DA is playing hardball because he wants to get re-elected.

Brian

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:33:48 AM EDT

[#31]

This is why our policy says we don't show up unless we are in uniform and in a dept. vehicle.

You won't catch me rolling on scene in a POV in civvies.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:34:04 AM EDT

[#32]

THIS

Quoted:

Quoted:
The store owner's story is completely plausible.

Odd vehicle, Tattoo's on arms, strange circumstances of supposed officer's arrival.

Were I on the jury I would say reasonable doubt was met, unless there is some serious flaws in his testimony.

+1 Not guilty.

It's worth noting that if the cop hadn't hit his mag release, Thomas would probably be dead. The cop made a mistake in identification just as much as Thomas did.

PLUS

Quoted:

"It is a hard case for that young man, and I hate to see it be that way," Melvin said. "You can't say how scared he was or why he couldn't understand the guy was a police officer. But if he doesn't go to jail, it will look like he can shoot a police officer and get away with it."

So, in other words, "It's not about justice, it's about authority."

PLUS

Quoted:
Yes, but some animals are more equal than others.

__________________________________________________________________
Cross-platform gun database/electronic bound book (v1.3.2) (and the original thread).
«nolite confidere in principibus, in filiis hominum quibus non est salus»

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:34:18 AM EDT

[#33]

I wouldn't convict him if I sat on that jury (at least not with the info I currently have)

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:35:59 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Officer presumably acting in good faith shoots what he perceived to be a threat (but in reality was not) a few weeks ago: Good to go!

Man presumably acting in good faith shoots what he perceived to be a threat (but in reality was not): Son of a bitch needs to go to jail!

I'm learning.

Of course there's that whole uniform thing that you're ignoring. For some reason I'm not surprised..........

Brian

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:37:04 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Add to that, was it all blinged up or just a standard Tahoe? Our local cops have marked and unmarked hoes but they are quite different looking than say a 22" rimmed blinged up chromed up vehicle...which this officer may very well have as his POV.

While blinged out would cause the average person to heisitate, the full uniform thing is a tough hurdle.

Yes, but what other reason would the guy have had for shooting the cop?

He made a mistake. A big one but a mistake IMHO.

I have no idea.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:38:28 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
This is why our policy says we don't show up unless we are in uniform and in a dept. vehicle.

You won't catch me rolling on scene in a POV in civvies.

This was more of an active shooter scenario IMO - not a "scene". The off-duty in SLC that shot/killed the guy in the mall - I wonder if he has the same attitude? Every situation is different and you make decisions based on what you know at the time.

Brian

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:40:01 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
And this is why they build courthouses.

Yeah but do you go for a jury or judge trial in a situation like this?

Jury?

I'm thinking judge.

After they put all the witnesses on stand, his uniform is displayed, pics of cop in the in the uniform, I have a feeling common folks are not going to buy the "fog of war" excuse.

You could be right.

Of course this would depend on the judge. But this sounds very winnable before a jury. I would love to try this case. Bad things happen to good people. The defendant and the cop both were both good guys and both were trying to do good. Something bad happened by mistake. If we should blame anybody, let's blame the actual bad guys. This would be an easier win than 99% of criminal trials.

The problem with judges is that they generally are pro-prosecution. The problem with juries is that you never really know if you have a fair one. I'll take the latter, unless there is a really, really good reason not to.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:45:24 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If frogs have wings they wouldn't have a sore ass.

Officer DID misidentify robbers, store owner DID doubt the identity of the officer. Both are reasonable mistakes, only one of them is facing jail though.

Officer identified a guy with a gun after hearing shots fired - he had no way of knowing if the guy with the gun was the suspect or victim. Store owner/employee misidentified a guy in a police uniform. Just a slight difference.

FTR - I agree with Bama that the problem for the store owner is that he starting fighting back AFTER he submitted and then saw tattoos. Not sure I'd convict on charges that could result in 25 years based on the story as presented.

Brian

It sounds like the store owner never got a good look at the approaching officer, ie never got a full view of the uniform. The officer approached the store owner from behind, and went to cuff him, so all the store owner could see was a black tattooed arm.

I think he saw the uniform but wasn't sure whether the guy was actually a police officer (hence yelling for someone to call the cops after he was yelled at by the police officer). In my mind, there is no doubt that the guy did not intend to shoot a police officer. In fact, I don't think anyone has argued (or could argue) that this guy decided "what the heck, I've got the gun out anyway, seems like a good day to shoot a cop." Now the question is this - were his actions reasonable? While he didn't do what I would have done (I would have run inside the restaurant crying like a baby), I think it was reasonable to assume the police officer was a bad guy. It's actually a good thing the police officer dropped his mag or he may have killed the guy. Sucks that the officer got shot, but sometimes that's the penalty you pay for visible tats. (I keep trying to turn this into a tattoo thread. Where's RustedAce when you need him?) But seriously, I've never seen a police officer with visible tats. I think most of the departments around here have policies against them.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:45:52 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:

This is why our policy says we don't show up unless we are in uniform and in a dept. vehicle.

You won't catch me rolling on scene in a POV in civvies.

This was more of an active shooter scenario IMO - not a "scene". The off-duty in SLC that shot/killed the guy in the mall - I wonder if he has the same attitude? Every situation is different and you make decisions based on what you know at the time.

Brian

That off duty cop was already at the scene, of course I would have reacted exactly the same way.

If I show up and bungle-fuck the scene going against policy, I'm not doing anyone any favors.

It's entirely different if you are sitting at home and hear a call go over the radio, and hope in your pickup wearing jeans to race to the scene.

Obviously if shit was really bad, I might say fuck it, but I stand by my rule.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:46:14 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If frogs have wings they wouldn't have a sore ass.

Officer DID misidentify robbers, store owner DID doubt the identity of the officer. Both are reasonable mistakes, only one of them is facing jail though.

Officer identified a guy with a gun after hearing shots fired - he had no way of knowing if the guy with the gun was the suspect or victim. Store owner/employee misidentified a guy in a police uniform. Just a slight difference.

FTR - I agree with Bama that the problem for the store owner is that he starting fighting back AFTER he submitted and then saw tattoos. Not sure I'd convict on charges that could result in 25 years based on the story as presented.

Brian

It sounds like the store owner never got a good look at the approaching officer, ie never got a full view of the uniform. The officer approached the store owner from behind, and went to cuff him, so all the store owner could see was a black tattooed arm.

Thomas got a good enough look to believe he was a cop and get on the ground, wait for the cop to walk up to him.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:46:29 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Don't most unmarked cars have lights and sirens?

I am always hearing about robberies by guys dressed up as police.
I am glad the officer wasn't killed. Based on what I have read, I would lean towards not guilty.

What's the source for the part in red? Arfcom GD? Robberies/home invasions by suspects dressed/acting like police do occur but I don't think it's as prevalent as GD likes to think.

Brian

It happens in Houston every once in a while: http://www.khou.com/news/Crooks-dressing-in-police-gear-becoming-a-growing-problem-in-Houston-136285573.html

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:49:18 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Officer presumably acting in good faith shoots what he perceived to be a threat (but in reality was not) a few weeks ago: Good to go!

Man presumably acting in good faith shoots what he perceived to be a threat (but in reality was not): Son of a bitch needs to go to jail!

I'm learning.

Of course there's that whole uniform thing that you're ignoring. For some reason I'm not surprised..........

Brian

And you're ignoring the thugged-up unmarked SUV and tats.

Your 'perception of threat' is unequally applied, but that is incredibly expected.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:54:59 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Officer presumably acting in good faith shoots what he perceived to be a threat (but in reality was not) a few weeks ago: Good to go!

Man presumably acting in good faith shoots what he perceived to be a threat (but in reality was not): Son of a bitch needs to go to jail!

I'm learning.

Of course there's that whole uniform thing that you're ignoring. For some reason I'm not surprised..........

Brian

And you're ignoring the thugged-up unmarked SUV and tats.

Your 'perception of threat' is unequally applied, but that is incredibly expected.

Window tints= thugged up?

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:56:54 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Officer presumably acting in good faith shoots what he perceived to be a threat (but in reality was not) a few weeks ago: Good to go!

Man presumably acting in good faith shoots what he perceived to be a threat (but in reality was not): Son of a bitch needs to go to jail!

I'm learning.

Of course there's that whole uniform thing that you're ignoring. For some reason I'm not surprised..........

Brian

And you're ignoring the thugged-up unmarked SUV and tats.

Your 'perception of threat' is unequally applied, but that is incredibly expected.

Window tints= thugged up?

I'm guessing the Tahoe was somewhere inbetween steel wheels with spotlights on the A posts and gold 30" rims. So neither end of the broad brush continum is appropriate.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:57:14 AM EDT

[#45]

Despite the fact that the guy that fired the shots IS INCREDIBLY STUPID AND ILL INFORMED ABOUT POLICE PRACTICES, I don't think I could convict in this case.

Everyone going home at the end of the day should be the ending to this case.

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:57:48 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
That's what happens when officers don't have standards and get all tatted up like the thugs they arrest.

patiently waiting rustedace's response

Yeah we shouldn't hire all those military vets because they have tat's.

They should be living out in the woods away from society anyway.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 2/10/2012 7:58:12 AM EDT

[#47]

Police do keep a catalog of gang related tats, because to them, tats do mean something.

Why is it hard to believe this guy came to the same conclusion?

Posted: 2/10/2012 8:01:21 AM EDT

[#48]

Good Shoot, Bad prosecution.

Posted: 2/10/2012 8:02:52 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

I'm guessing the Tahoe was somewhere inbetween steel wheels with spotlights on the A posts and gold 30" rims. So neither end of the broad brush continum is appropriate.

I know some places that run the civie Tahoe versions with stock aluminum rims.

Posted: 2/10/2012 8:04:01 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm guessing the Tahoe was somewhere inbetween steel wheels with spotlights on the A posts and gold 30" rims. So neither end of the broad brush continum is appropriate.

I know some places that run the civie Tahoe versions with stock aluminum rims.

It was a stock Tahoe with standard wheels, it's in one of the media videos parked in the middle of the street still at the light.

ETA, http://www.11alive.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=144663 :55 second mark.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Ga. shooting suspect 'thought cop was criminal' - cop resonded off duty to shot fired full uniform (Page 3 of 10)

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