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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:14:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Europeans are strange
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:19:37 PM EDT
[#2]
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Stock is so he can shoot with that helmet he is wearing. Revolver is for shield guy so he can brace the gun against the shield for extra stability. The slide of a semi auto won't cycle. Never seen that be a problem. Being the shield man sucks. 
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:23:23 PM EDT
[#3]
lol
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:28:30 PM EDT
[#4]
Holy fucking shitbats.
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:29:05 PM EDT
[#5]
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Ok I wanna see that fuckin revolver out of the holster! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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See the funny stock? Same deal http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7r1s7Emv21r9khx4o1_500.jpg Eta-in proper HK fashion he has backwards bullets. Some use mags clamped backwards so the risk of loading an empty mag is lessened.Also note he's carrying a wheel gun.Hamburg's MEK uses .357 686s. Ok I wanna see that fuckin revolver out of the holster! 
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:35:35 PM EDT
[#6]
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I wouldn't easily discount anything that GSG9 does That's what I was thinking, but then I remembered this is ARFCom, where everyone is a tactical master. |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:37:05 PM EDT
[#7]
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See the funny stock? Same deal http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7r1s7Emv21r9khx4o1_500.jpg Eta-in proper HK fashion he has backwards bullets. Some use mags clamped backwards so the risk of loading an empty mag is lessened.Also note he's carrying a wheel gun.Hamburg's MEK uses .357 686s. Ok I wanna see that fuckin revolver out of the holster! http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7435/mek1106777b.jpg http://www.ndr.de/regional/hamburg/mek135_v-contentgross.jpg Wow. Face shields suck. |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:38:23 PM EDT
[#8]
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It would be screwy to take a 50 yard shot with .45 anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Actually, that's about the right height for an EOTech while wearing gas masks and ancillary gear.  Yup Edit: I can tell you though that if they do things like they did about 15 years ago that they zero at around 10-15 yards IIRC. Which is all sorts of F'd up at the short/long change up. We had a GSG9 fanboy trainer on our team years ago that insisted the UMP's be zeroed at super short range. It was screwy o take a 50 yard shot. It would be screwy to take a 50 yard shot with .45 anyway. why? |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:40:04 PM EDT
[#9]
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That's what I was thinking, but then I remembered this is ARFCom, where everyone is a tactical master. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wouldn't easily discount anything that GSG9 does That's what I was thinking, but then I remembered this is ARFCom, where everyone is a tactical master. pretty much my thoughts |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:40:10 PM EDT
[#10]
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why? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Actually, that's about the right height for an EOTech while wearing gas masks and ancillary gear. Yup Edit: I can tell you though that if they do things like they did about 15 years ago that they zero at around 10-15 yards IIRC. Which is all sorts of F'd up at the short/long change up. We had a GSG9 fanboy trainer on our team years ago that insisted the UMP's be zeroed at super short range. It was screwy o take a 50 yard shot. It would be screwy to take a 50 yard shot with .45 anyway. why? Because he's derp. 
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:42:18 PM EDT
[#11]
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why? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Actually, that's about the right height for an EOTech while wearing gas masks and ancillary gear. Yup Edit: I can tell you though that if they do things like they did about 15 years ago that they zero at around 10-15 yards IIRC. Which is all sorts of F'd up at the short/long change up. We had a GSG9 fanboy trainer on our team years ago that insisted the UMP's be zeroed at super short range. It was screwy o take a 50 yard shot. It would be screwy to take a 50 yard shot with .45 anyway. why? Suboptimal weapon system platform for that range? Did that sound tacticool enough? |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:43:09 PM EDT
[#12]
I've never understood why more US agencies don't use those face shields... I'm sure the entry guys on our team would find those comforting.
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:43:51 PM EDT
[#13]
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Suboptimal weapon system platform for that range? Did that sound tacticool enough? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Actually, that's about the right height for an EOTech while wearing gas masks and ancillary gear. Yup Edit: I can tell you though that if they do things like they did about 15 years ago that they zero at around 10-15 yards IIRC. Which is all sorts of F'd up at the short/long change up. We had a GSG9 fanboy trainer on our team years ago that insisted the UMP's be zeroed at super short range. It was screwy o take a 50 yard shot. It would be screwy to take a 50 yard shot with .45 anyway. why? Suboptimal weapon system platform for that range? Did that sound tacticool enough? .45 has more then enough knock down at 50 yards. even more so considering its coming out of a longer bbl then a pistol
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:44:04 PM EDT
[#14]
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Wow. Face shields suck. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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See the funny stock? Same deal http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7r1s7Emv21r9khx4o1_500.jpg Eta-in proper HK fashion he has backwards bullets. Some use mags clamped backwards so the risk of loading an empty mag is lessened.Also note he's carrying a wheel gun.Hamburg's MEK uses .357 686s. Ok I wanna see that fuckin revolver out of the holster! http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7435/mek1106777b.jpg http://www.ndr.de/regional/hamburg/mek135_v-contentgross.jpg Wow. Face shields suck. For the quick reaction type missions they run face shields aren't so bad...nor the heavy armor Now patrolling downtown Baghdad in that shit for 10 hours would suck |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:45:40 PM EDT
[#15]
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Yup Edit: I can tell you though that if they do things like they did about 15 years ago that they zero at around 10-15 yards IIRC. Which is all sorts of F'd up at the short/long change up. We had a GSG9 fanboy trainer on our team years ago that insisted the UMP's be zeroed at super short range. It was screwy o take a 50 yard shot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Actually, that's about the right height for an EOTech while wearing gas masks and ancillary gear. Yup Edit: I can tell you though that if they do things like they did about 15 years ago that they zero at around 10-15 yards IIRC. Which is all sorts of F'd up at the short/long change up. We had a GSG9 fanboy trainer on our team years ago that insisted the UMP's be zeroed at super short range. It was screwy o take a 50 yard shot. I'm gonna guess that's what the optic below the Eotech is for.... |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:46:51 PM EDT
[#16]
What's the point of the face shields anyways?
Can they stop even pistol bullets, or are they more for stopping shrapnel/bullet fragments? And even then, it seems like the cumbersome nature of a face shield would negate its effectiveness at stopping bullet fragments. |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:52:41 PM EDT
[#17]
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What's the point of the face shields anyways? Can they stop even pistol bullets, or are they more for stopping shrapnel/bullet fragments? And even then, it seems like the cumbersome nature of a face shield would negate its effectiveness at stopping bullet fragments. From what I understand they are like level IIIA and pretty dammed tough, when you do raids you have to worry about ll sorts of fragments from rounds, flash , ect and those shields will stop pistol rounds ..Russians have something similar I believe - they are pretty dammed thick and ballistic glass ain't much thicker than that in some applications |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:55:25 PM EDT
[#18]
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From what I understand they are like level IIIA and pretty dammed tough, when you do raids you have to worry about ll sorts of fragments from rounds, flash , ect and those shields will stop pistol rounds ..Russians have something similar I believe - they are pretty dammed thick and ballistic glass ain't much thicker than that in some applications Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's the point of the face shields anyways? Can they stop even pistol bullets, or are they more for stopping shrapnel/bullet fragments? And even then, it seems like the cumbersome nature of a face shield would negate its effectiveness at stopping bullet fragments. From what I understand they are like level IIIA and pretty dammed tough, when you do raids you have to worry about ll sorts of fragments from rounds, flash , ect and those shields will stop pistol rounds ..Russians have something similar I believe - they are pretty dammed thick and ballistic glass ain't much thicker than that in some applications If I ever had to use one it would be my luck that the damned thing would fog up.
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Posted: 9/7/2013 7:58:09 PM EDT
[#19]
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It does not look like they have plates in those plate carriers. Rule #4: if there is the slightest chance you can scam out of having plates in, pull 'em
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:00:42 PM EDT
[#20]
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If I ever had to use one it would be my luck that the damned thing would fog up.
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What's the point of the face shields anyways? Can they stop even pistol bullets, or are they more for stopping shrapnel/bullet fragments? And even then, it seems like the cumbersome nature of a face shield would negate its effectiveness at stopping bullet fragments. From what I understand they are like level IIIA and pretty dammed tough, when you do raids you have to worry about ll sorts of fragments from rounds, flash , ect and those shields will stop pistol rounds ..Russians have something similar I believe - they are pretty dammed thick and ballistic glass ain't much thicker than that in some applications If I ever had to use one it would be my luck that the damned thing would fog up.
I've always wondered about these 
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:06:18 PM EDT
[#21]
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Because he's derp. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Actually, that's about the right height for an EOTech while wearing gas masks and ancillary gear. Yup Edit: I can tell you though that if they do things like they did about 15 years ago that they zero at around 10-15 yards IIRC. Which is all sorts of F'd up at the short/long change up. We had a GSG9 fanboy trainer on our team years ago that insisted the UMP's be zeroed at super short range. It was screwy o take a 50 yard shot. It would be screwy to take a 50 yard shot with .45 anyway. why? Because he's derp. Pistol caliber at 50 yards. Yep, I;m derp. Everyone is really smart to depend on a pistol caliber at 50 yards. Don't mind me guys. I care about the science and practical application of rounds. Pretty boring stuff. |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:09:30 PM EDT
[#22]
I'd rather ditch the face shield and be able to shoot more effectively. To each their own though.
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:11:01 PM EDT
[#23]
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Pistol caliber at 50 yards. Yep, I;m derp. Everyone is really smart to depend on a pistol caliber at 50 yards. Don't mind me guys. I care about the science and practical application of rounds. Pretty boring stuff. with modern tech a rife caliber carbine is the better answer. ETA: In my low speed high drag opinion |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:11:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryPistol caliber at 50 yards. Yep, I;m derp. Everyone is really smart to depend on a pistol caliber at 50 yards. I'm sure barrel length in a carbine boosts the performance a bit past pistol effectiveness - just a thought but yea fuck that |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:13:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 100 + yard shots are something less than 1% of police shootings iirc. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actually, that's about the right height for an EOTech while wearing gas masks and ancillary gear. Yup Edit: I can tell you though that if they do things like they did about 15 years ago that they zero at around 10-15 yards IIRC. Which is all sorts of F'd up at the short/long change up. We had a GSG9 fanboy trainer on our team years ago that insisted the UMP's be zeroed at super short range. It was screwy o take a 50 yard shot. Sounds like it would suck to get into a gunfight in Walmart or a big warehouse/industrial area where 100+ yard shots are possible with that setup 100 + yard shots are something less than 1% of police shootings iirc. Much less. A gun on our department hit a guy from around 40 yards, and that ranked fairly high up there.
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:17:48 PM EDT
[#26]
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It would be screwy to take a 50 yard shot with .45 anyway. Why? Do it all the time in Bullseye. Trajectory isn't that bad from 25 yd. |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:21:23 PM EDT
[#27]
That laser? on the bottom of the revolver is... odd.
I'd love to know the reason behind that.
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:39:49 PM EDT
[#28]
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That laser? on the bottom of the revolver is... odd. I'd love to know the reason behind that. Where else would you put it? Not like a 686 has a picatinny rail, and this way it still fits the holster. It's their version of southern engineering. 
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:48:05 PM EDT
[#29]
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I've always wondered about these http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg426/rangerjake82/image_zps4e3b8b4d.jpg http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg426/rangerjake82/image_zps2a3748ab.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's the point of the face shields anyways? Can they stop even pistol bullets, or are they more for stopping shrapnel/bullet fragments? And even then, it seems like the cumbersome nature of a face shield would negate its effectiveness at stopping bullet fragments. From what I understand they are like level IIIA and pretty dammed tough, when you do raids you have to worry about ll sorts of fragments from rounds, flash , ect and those shields will stop pistol rounds ..Russians have something similar I believe - they are pretty dammed thick and ballistic glass ain't much thicker than that in some applications If I ever had to use one it would be my luck that the damned thing would fog up.
I've always wondered about these http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg426/rangerjake82/image_zps4e3b8b4d.jpg http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg426/rangerjake82/image_zps2a3748ab.jpg That's the outdated Altyn/Lynx helmet. Here's the newest one. 
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:52:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Do they wear those all the time or just for entry/ close quarters slaughter?
Seems like it would make hiding/blending into surroundings difficult with the sun glaring off of it.. ETA: Even Russians use American optics! |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:54:40 PM EDT
[#31]
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Do they wear those all the time or just for entry/ close quarters slaughter? Seems like it would make hiding/blending into surroundings difficult with the sun glaring off of it.. ETA: Even Russians use American optics! Spetsgruppa Alfa doesn't. They love them some multicam. 
I don't think GSG-9 does either. Mission dictates equipment. 
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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:59:38 PM EDT
[#32]
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Spetsgruppa Alfa doesn't. They love them some multicam.
I don't think GSG-9 does either. Mission dictates equipment. https://sphotos-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/295037_520316564679196_1159193670_n.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Do they wear those all the time or just for entry/ close quarters slaughter? Seems like it would make hiding/blending into surroundings difficult with the sun glaring off of it.. ETA: Even Russians use American optics! Spetsgruppa Alfa doesn't. They love them some multicam.
I don't think GSG-9 does either. Mission dictates equipment. https://sphotos-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/295037_520316564679196_1159193670_n.jpg AR platform rifle and a PMag, what are the euros coming to 
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:01:29 PM EDT
[#33]
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100 + yard shots are something less than 1% of police shootings iirc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Actually, that's about the right height for an EOTech while wearing gas masks and ancillary gear. Yup Edit: I can tell you though that if they do things like they did about 15 years ago that they zero at around 10-15 yards IIRC. Which is all sorts of F'd up at the short/long change up. We had a GSG9 fanboy trainer on our team years ago that insisted the UMP's be zeroed at super short range. It was screwy o take a 50 yard shot. Sounds like it would suck to get into a gunfight in Walmart or a big warehouse/industrial area where 100+ yard shots are possible with that setup 100 + yard shots are something less than 1% of police shootings iirc. There's no question they are rare, but they do happen. Heck even a 50 yard shot is tricky with a retarded close zero. A 50 or 100 yard zero is a hell of a lot more effective and useful. I understand the idea behind the close zero, but it sacrifices extended distance utility for a very marginal improvement at close range, which shouldn't be an issue if you properly train and apply holdovers. With those 7-10-15 yard holdovers you're going to have a crazy variation at even 50-75 yards, and the reality is you'll probably be guessing the distance(real world versus square range) and probably be off by several inches. |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:05:21 PM EDT
[#34]
What I find funny is those helmets and most of that gear will end up in a pile and the GSG-9 guys will end up with an MP5K (if they are lucky), a Smith 686, some speed loaders, and a flashlight if they have to utilize a scrawl space, a wet wall, a tight basement access, or a similar tight environment.
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:06:59 PM EDT
[#35]
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.45 has more then enough knock down at 50 yards. even more so considering its coming out of a longer bbl then a pistol Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It would be screwy to take a 50 yard shot with .45 anyway. why? Suboptimal weapon system platform for that range? Did that sound tacticool enough? .45 has more then enough knock down at 50 yards. even more so considering its coming out of a longer bbl then a pistol I'm constantly amazed at how few people actually practice regularly at distance, much less do a walkback drill and see just far they can make hits. |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:20:58 PM EDT
[#36]
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There's no question they are rare, but they do happen. Heck even a 50 yard shot is tricky with a retarded close zero. A 50 or 100 yard zero is a hell of a lot more effective and useful. I understand the idea behind the close zero, but it sacrifices extended distance utility for a very marginal improvement at close range, which shouldn't be an issue if you properly train and apply holdovers. With those 7-10-15 yard holdovers you're going to have a crazy variation at even 50-75 yards, and the reality is you'll probably be guessing the distance(real world versus square range) and probably be off by several inches. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Actually, that's about the right height for an EOTech while wearing gas masks and ancillary gear. Yup Edit: I can tell you though that if they do things like they did about 15 years ago that they zero at around 10-15 yards IIRC. Which is all sorts of F'd up at the short/long change up. We had a GSG9 fanboy trainer on our team years ago that insisted the UMP's be zeroed at super short range. It was screwy o take a 50 yard shot. Sounds like it would suck to get into a gunfight in Walmart or a big warehouse/industrial area where 100+ yard shots are possible with that setup 100 + yard shots are something less than 1% of police shootings iirc. There's no question they are rare, but they do happen. Heck even a 50 yard shot is tricky with a retarded close zero. A 50 or 100 yard zero is a hell of a lot more effective and useful. I understand the idea behind the close zero, but it sacrifices extended distance utility for a very marginal improvement at close range, which shouldn't be an issue if you properly train and apply holdovers. With those 7-10-15 yard holdovers you're going to have a crazy variation at even 50-75 yards, and the reality is you'll probably be guessing the distance(real world versus square range) and probably be off by several inches. I had the chance to compete against SWAT Teams at a national match several years ago. My civilian team destroyed most of them on 100-200 yard shooting because they were running extremely close range zeros. Of 7-15 yards. Someone else in this thread mentioned specialization to their own detriment. Extremely high bore off set or close range zeroes are perfect examples of that if they face a problem outside those specific parameters. |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:21:35 PM EDT
[#37]
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I'm constantly amazed at how few people actually practice regularly at distance, much less do a walkback drill and see just far they can make hits. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It would be screwy to take a 50 yard shot with .45 anyway. why? Suboptimal weapon system platform for that range? Did that sound tacticool enough? .45 has more then enough knock down at 50 yards. even more so considering its coming out of a longer bbl then a pistol I'm constantly amazed at how few people actually practice regularly at distance, much less do a walkback drill and see just far they can make hits. I concur. It's fun to see how good you really are. |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:22:22 PM EDT
[#38]
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I'm constantly amazed at how few people actually practice regularly at distance, much less do a walkback drill and see just far they can make hits. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It would be screwy to take a 50 yard shot with .45 anyway. why? Suboptimal weapon system platform for that range? Did that sound tacticool enough? .45 has more then enough knock down at 50 yards. even more so considering its coming out of a longer bbl then a pistol I'm constantly amazed at how few people actually practice regularly at distance, much less do a walkback drill and see just far they can make hits. If people would put in some range time and practice they would slam the man sized target at 50 yards or better with 9mm or larger. It isn't rocket science or a mythical feat of heroic proportions. A factory gun, with proper sights, decent ammo, and a fairly competent shooter can make it happen. |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:29:04 PM EDT
[#39]
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I'm constantly amazed at how few people actually practice regularly at distance, much less do a walkback drill and see just far they can make hits. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It would be screwy to take a 50 yard shot with .45 anyway. why? Suboptimal weapon system platform for that range? Did that sound tacticool enough? .45 has more then enough knock down at 50 yards. even more so considering its coming out of a longer bbl then a pistol I'm constantly amazed at how few people actually practice regularly at distance, much less do a walkback drill and see just far they can make hits. I shot a match yesterday (because it is now tomorrow, not later tonight...), where one of the stages involved knocking down steel poppers at 40 yards. They were a little tricky to hit, because they weren't even chest width, but they consistently fell flat when shot. I know they are calibrated so they can be knocked over, but if my 9mm had enough oomph to knock over a hefty piece of steel, I'd feel relatively comfortable with 16 rounds of Golddot at that distance. If I can't get two chest shots out of 16 rounds at 40 yards, I need to reevaluate my practice. Not to say a rifle wouldn't be better. It would obviously be more efficient and effective. I'm just saying a pistol can be used at that distance, and modern defensive ammunition helps with overall damage. |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:32:32 PM EDT
[#40]
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Where else would you put it? Not like a 686 has a picatinny rail, and this way it still fits the holster. It's their version of southern engineering. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That laser? on the bottom of the revolver is... odd. I'd love to know the reason behind that. Where else would you put it? Not like a 686 has a picatinny rail, and this way it still fits the holster. It's their version of southern engineering. Bavarian Engineering.
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:44:14 PM EDT
[#41]
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I had the chance to compete against SWAT Teams at a national match several years ago. My civilian team destroyed most of them on 100-200 yard shooting because they were running extremely close range zeros. Of 7-15 yards. Someone else in this thread mentioned specialization to their own detriment. Extremely high bore off set or close range zeroes are perfect examples of that if they face a problem outside those specific parameters. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There's no question they are rare, but they do happen. Heck even a 50 yard shot is tricky with a retarded close zero. A 50 or 100 yard zero is a hell of a lot more effective and useful. I understand the idea behind the close zero, but it sacrifices extended distance utility for a very marginal improvement at close range, which shouldn't be an issue if you properly train and apply holdovers. With those 7-10-15 yard holdovers you're going to have a crazy variation at even 50-75 yards, and the reality is you'll probably be guessing the distance(real world versus square range) and probably be off by several inches. I had the chance to compete against SWAT Teams at a national match several years ago. My civilian team destroyed most of them on 100-200 yard shooting because they were running extremely close range zeros. Of 7-15 yards. Someone else in this thread mentioned specialization to their own detriment. Extremely high bore off set or close range zeroes are perfect examples of that if they face a problem outside those specific parameters. To be fair 100-200 yards is almost always going to be sniper time, but those crazy close zeros start having problems at 30 yards, and that's totally realistic for tac teams. Heck one of Pat's students dumped a mutt a few days ago across a motel courtyard in a 40 yard engagement, with a 7 yard zero he would have been 13 inches high! Another interesting point is the guy illuminated the mutt with an EAG Fury, putting the lie to the notion that "200 lumens is plenty" and 500 will burn out your retinas!" |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:47:35 PM EDT
[#42]
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I shot a match yesterday (because it is now tomorrow, not later tonight...), where one of the stages involved knocking down steel poppers at 40 yards. They were a little tricky to hit, because they weren't even chest width, but they consistently fell flat when shot. I know they are calibrated so they can be knocked over, but if my 9mm had enough oomph to knock over a hefty piece of steel, I'd feel relatively comfortable with 16 rounds of Golddot at that distance. If I can't get two chest shots out of 16 rounds at 40 yards, I need to reevaluate my practice. Not to say a rifle wouldn't be better. It would obviously be more efficient and effective. I'm just saying a pistol can be used at that distance, and modern defensive ammunition helps with overall damage. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm constantly amazed at how few people actually practice regularly at distance, much less do a walkback drill and see just far they can make hits. I shot a match yesterday (because it is now tomorrow, not later tonight...), where one of the stages involved knocking down steel poppers at 40 yards. They were a little tricky to hit, because they weren't even chest width, but they consistently fell flat when shot. I know they are calibrated so they can be knocked over, but if my 9mm had enough oomph to knock over a hefty piece of steel, I'd feel relatively comfortable with 16 rounds of Golddot at that distance. If I can't get two chest shots out of 16 rounds at 40 yards, I need to reevaluate my practice. Not to say a rifle wouldn't be better. It would obviously be more efficient and effective. I'm just saying a pistol can be used at that distance, and modern defensive ammunition helps with overall damage. A rifle is by far a better choice, but sometimes you don't have one. Also it's a great confidence builder as well. I always shoot at least 1 box with my G34 at 125 yards, do a couple strings at that distance and 25 feels like a chip shot. I can make about 5-10% hits on a full size IPSC at 425 yards with the same gun, that's a completely absurd distance but it feels great when you connect. If you don't push the limits you'll never learn how far you or your gear can go. |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 9:48:44 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Several years ago they sent a team here for the SWAT Nationals, I knew the sheriffs captain fairly well that was assigned to Shepard them around town, and I was a vendor at the event. I got to spend a bunch of time with them. They were all very laid back and fun to hang with. One of the fun events for the teams had them shooting skeet. They had never done it before, so we loaded up and went to my range on skeet night. The look on the old skeet Fudds faces was priceless when we showed up with them in full gear to practice. They did quite well. They kinda showed off a bit, while not shooting they spent their time doing push-ups and pull-ups. I got invited to sit at their table for the awards banquet and got lots of cool GSG-9 swag, also got given their left over Ruag ammo that they were not taking back. Been to two of those, got severely trashed with one or two of the GSG boys. They like to party I'll tell you what! They can run and shoot as well, shit hot they are. |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 10:28:36 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, us Americans seem to do it just fine. The arm is braced, but shooting from the shield still sucks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Revolver is for shield guy so he can brace the gun against the shield for extra stability. The slide of a semi auto won't cycle. Well, us Americans seem to do it just fine. The arm is braced, but shooting from the shield still sucks. The S&W model 327 TRR8 was born for an American agency. I'm surprised the Germans aren't using them. |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 11:29:58 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've always wondered about these http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg426/rangerjake82/image_zps4e3b8b4d.jpg http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg426/rangerjake82/image_zps2a3748ab.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What's the point of the face shields anyways? Can they stop even pistol bullets, or are they more for stopping shrapnel/bullet fragments? And even then, it seems like the cumbersome nature of a face shield would negate its effectiveness at stopping bullet fragments. From what I understand they are like level IIIA and pretty dammed tough, when you do raids you have to worry about ll sorts of fragments from rounds, flash , ect and those shields will stop pistol rounds ..Russians have something similar I believe - they are pretty dammed thick and ballistic glass ain't much thicker than that in some applications If I ever had to use one it would be my luck that the damned thing would fog up. I've always wondered about these http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg426/rangerjake82/image_zps4e3b8b4d.jpg http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg426/rangerjake82/image_zps2a3748ab.jpg |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 11:32:16 PM EDT
[#46]
Sometimes the 'best' aren't. You have to realize what these guys do on a daily basis and understand what they are really experts in, and what they are not. They probably do their fair share of shooting, but they are likely not exposed to a plethora of different shooting techniques and theories, so they get locked into what their organization teaches, and they are likely quite good at that, but on the whole, lacking with respect to shooting. Not saying anything about their overall professionalism, or their PT-stud-ness, or their qualifications, but it's quite likely they don't shoot all that amazingly. That's just the nature of the game, I mean, you can't shoot like Jerry Miculek when your day job is to do PT and run around in gear. You are good at what you do, and you won't be the best at what you don't do everyday.
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Posted: 9/7/2013 11:42:49 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
- I've always wondered about these http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg426/rangerjake82/image_zps4e3b8b4d.jpg http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg426/rangerjake82/image_zps2a3748ab.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
- I've always wondered about these http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg426/rangerjake82/image_zps4e3b8b4d.jpg http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg426/rangerjake82/image_zps2a3748ab.jpg Rule 1 from the Evil Overlord List: My Legions of Terror will have helmets with clear plexiglass visors, not face-concealing ones. - Concerning the OP, the bent-stock MP5 seems to be a better setup: 
He'd still be able to make shots at range since the sights aren't radically offset from the barrel. But I guess it'd depend on the level of specialization the guys need. I would think at some ranges that close with an EOTech/red dot like in OP, they'd be able to point shoot and it'd be faster and easier than messing with trying to acquire any type of sight picture. But I suppose it'd depend what they were doing. |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 11:52:11 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ell, least the optic is placed in the right position... As opposed to New York's finest... http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Umbrarian/Silly%20People/NYPD-ESU.jpg  That chap isn't NYPD. |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 11:55:45 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.45 has more then enough knock down at 50 yards. even more so considering its coming out of a longer bbl then a pistol I'm going to have to smack you for using the phrase "knock down." |
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Posted: 9/8/2013 12:13:27 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A rifle is by far a better choice, but sometimes you don't have one. Also it's a great confidence builder as well. I always shoot at least 1 box with my G34 at 125 yards, do a couple strings at that distance and 25 feels like a chip shot. I can make about 5-10% hits on a full size IPSC at 425 yards with the same gun, that's a completely absurd distance but it feels great when you connect. If you don't push the limits you'll never learn how far you or your gear can go. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm constantly amazed at how few people actually practice regularly at distance, much less do a walkback drill and see just far they can make hits. I shot a match yesterday (because it is now tomorrow, not later tonight...), where one of the stages involved knocking down steel poppers at 40 yards. They were a little tricky to hit, because they weren't even chest width, but they consistently fell flat when shot. I know they are calibrated so they can be knocked over, but if my 9mm had enough oomph to knock over a hefty piece of steel, I'd feel relatively comfortable with 16 rounds of Golddot at that distance. If I can't get two chest shots out of 16 rounds at 40 yards, I need to reevaluate my practice. Not to say a rifle wouldn't be better. It would obviously be more efficient and effective. I'm just saying a pistol can be used at that distance, and modern defensive ammunition helps with overall damage. A rifle is by far a better choice, but sometimes you don't have one. Also it's a great confidence builder as well. I always shoot at least 1 box with my G34 at 125 yards, do a couple strings at that distance and 25 feels like a chip shot. I can make about 5-10% hits on a full size IPSC at 425 yards with the same gun, that's a completely absurd distance but it feels great when you connect. If you don't push the limits you'll never learn how far you or your gear can go. |
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