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Posted: 6/13/2015 9:29:45 PM EDT
So in this theory /fantasy thread I'd like the hive opinion on Guerrilla Warfare
Lets say the progs takes off the mask and goes full bore batshit crazy turn truly despotic and the .mil and LEO go right along with them. Genocide, camps food rationing every SHTF fantasy that would mobilize you. whatever that may be. How effective would you expect the American people to be in conducting Guerrilla Warfare |
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i was hoping that this would be a serious thread. if this thread is seious, read david galula
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i was hoping that this would be a serious thread. if this thread is seious, read david galula View Quote well I mean I suppose it could be serious but really the odds of the conditions to cause the populace to go into a war like that proposed are essentially impossible in my mind, however if you'd like to treat it as serious topic please go ahead. |
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History's most effective guerillas come from some of the poorest societies on earth. Most of them are so fanatically devoted to their cause that they abandon regard for human life, not only their enemies but that of their comrades and innocents. You just don't find that in the west, even in elite military units. It's that third world hardness that even the toughest, non-criminally insane Americans will never have.
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View Quote *snickering* |
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http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/03/1412329234065_wps_28_Gorillas_fight_over_a_tom.jpg View Quote Was that pic taken at the Balimore zoo |
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If you are talking about the government going crazy on us they probably would have a problem. You have to realize the amount of men in this country who are still true blooded Americans, even though the liberals hate us we would stand up. Many people have military a policee training so right there you have guys with tactics. Plus the amount of firepower us as civilians own is awesome. The other thing is a majority of people in the military and police would not go for it. Also logistics the government would have a hard time keeping up supplying their guys since I am sure small unit raids would happen.
This is just my thoughts. |
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I've not thought too hard on the matter, but I'd be willing to bet a "crackdown" wouldn't go as planned for a multitude of reasons.
First, don't assume the civilian LEO's and the US military and/or National Guard units would go along in step with such orders. I have faith that a good portion of all branches would not only hesitate to carry out such BS orders, they would refuse and actually step in and fulfill their oath. Secondly, as it has already mentioned I too believe there are enough former military and LEO's with enough knowledge and savvy to put up one hell of a fight using small unit tactics, etc, to keep the government off balance. I'll stop there. |
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I've not thought too hard on the matter, but I'd be willing to bet a "crackdown" wouldn't go as planned for a multitude of reasons. First, don't assume the civilian LEO's and the US military and/or National Guard units would go along in step with such orders. I have faith that a good portion of all branches would not only hesitate to carry out such BS orders, they would refuse and actually step in and fulfill their oath. Secondly, as it has already mentioned I too believe there are enough former military and LEO's with enough knowledge and savvy to put up one hell of a fight using small unit tactics, etc, to keep the government off balance. I'll stop there. View Quote Anyone who's been in the military knows there are plenty of military personnel who would go along with it without giving it a second thought. Too many people "have faith" that the military is comprised of people who understand or even care about the Constitution. They have no idea. |
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For you to assume that the Military and civilian law enforcement will stand down,and not follow orders,only means you have dismissed what history and its lessons have taught us,over and over again !!!!!!!
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Quoted: For you to assume that the Military and civilian law enforcement will stand down,and not follow orders,only means you have dismissed what history and its lessons have taught us,over and over again !!!!!!! View Quote shhh. arfcom thinks the military and police are heroes of the Constitution. |
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I'd want a few howlers for psyops, some swinging monkeys for canopy security, lots of baboons to support the heavies, which would be the gorillas.
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*snickering* Beat me to some lame joke about gorillas I was going to post. |
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If you are talking about the government going crazy on us they probably would have a problem. You have to realize the amount of men in this country who are still true blooded Americans, even though the liberals hate us we would stand up. Many people have military a policee training so right there you have guys with tactics. Plus the amount of firepower us as civilians own is awesome. The other thing is a majority of people in the military and police would not go for it. Also logistics the government would have a hard time keeping up supplying their guys since I am sure small unit raids would happen. This is just my thoughts. View Quote Not meant to be a hit on leo but training from a police academy would have nothing to add to actual warfare, unless we're taking prisoners. |
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How effective would you expect the American people to be in conducting Guerrilla Warfare View Quote Depends. If society is still together and the supermarkets are still open, I think Americans could be very effective. If people have to feed themselves.....I think the effectiveness would drop drastically. |
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I know when I served in the Marines in the late 80s and early 90s the consensus among the folks I served with was that we would not turn our guns on our own countrymen. I realize that was a long time ago, but I bet the feelings have not changed that much.
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I have ulcerative colitis, so the a hallmark tactic of apes throwing feces is not an option for me. I don't know how I'd do.
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How effective would you expect the American people to be in conducting Guerrilla Warfare View Quote If you're truly interested, look into the level of support from foreign nations which most successful insurgencies receive (and even unsuccessful ones, for that matter). From where would Americans get such support? |
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If you're truly interested, look into the level of support from foreign nations which most successful insurgencies receive (and even unsuccessful ones, for that matter). From where would Americans get such support? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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How effective would you expect the American people to be in conducting Guerrilla Warfare If you're truly interested, look into the level of support from foreign nations which most successful insurgencies receive (and even unsuccessful ones, for that matter). From where would Americans get such support? Russia and China would support the right wing insurgency in the US and by attacking the US DoD abroad. The more internal conflict they can get us in, the better off they will be. Still wanna riot? |
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Not meant to be a hit on leo but training from a police academy would have nothing to add to actual warfare, unless we're taking prisoners. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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If you are talking about the government going crazy on us they probably would have a problem. You have to realize the amount of men in this country who are still true blooded Americans, even though the liberals hate us we would stand up. Many people have military a policee training so right there you have guys with tactics. Plus the amount of firepower us as civilians own is awesome. The other thing is a majority of people in the military and police would not go for it. Also logistics the government would have a hard time keeping up supplying their guys since I am sure small unit raids would happen. This is just my thoughts. Not meant to be a hit on leo but training from a police academy would have nothing to add to actual warfare, unless we're taking prisoners. I'd have to disagree with this. Police have basic familiarization with firearms, tactics, first aid, radio communications and hand to hand fighting. None of it is likely all that great but it is better then someone with no training at all. They likely have pretty advanced training in emergency driving. They have experience in dangerous situations and have seen blood and death up close. More importantly they have an intimate knowledge of their local area and it's population. They know who is who in the area, like who the local fed LEO's are for example. They also know the criminal element like who to buy contraband materials from. Most importantly they know how local security forces operate. They know how things are investigated, like how security forces might try to track down and guerrilla cell. They know how to evade capture better then most because they have been on the other side of the search. A former bomb squad member would probably be a very effective IED maker if they put their mind to it. Maybe they wouldn't be real good at setting up an L shaped ambush against dismounted platoon of soldiers in a rural area but they would make excellent urban guerrillas. If you had a group with former LEO's and former military combat arms guys then I think they would pretty effective. |
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Quoted: History's most effective guerillas come from some of the poorest societies on earth. Most of them are so fanatically devoted to their cause that they abandon regard for human life, not only their enemies but that of their comrades and innocents. You just don't find that in the west, even in elite military units. It's that third world hardness that even the toughest, non-criminally insane Americans will never have. View Quote |
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I don't think they have the numbers for sustained control of the US population.
How many total active duty Military + Reserves + NG + LEO's are there? |
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Depends. If society is still together and the supermarkets are still open, I think Americans could be very effective. If people have to feed themselves.....I think the effectiveness would drop drastically. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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How effective would you expect the American people to be in conducting Guerrilla Warfare Depends. If society is still together and the supermarkets are still open, I think Americans could be very effective. If people have to feed themselves.....I think the effectiveness would drop drastically. No supermarkets? That's just chaos and riots then. Every man for himself. The culling will be immense. No rules. |
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Unlike other guerrilla wars, this one would put general military up against the smartest people in the world. In Vietnam Iraq and Afghanistan we fought uneducated mobs of indoctrinated poor country folk. Here they would be up against the doctors, chemists, farmers, and engineers who wrote the text books they learned from.
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I'd have to disagree with this. Police have basic familiarization with firearms, tactics, first aid, radio communications and hand to hand fighting. None of it is likely all that great but it is better then someone with no training at all. They likely have pretty advanced training in emergency driving. They have experience in dangerous situations and have seen blood and death up close. More importantly they have an intimate knowledge of their local area and it's population. They know who is who in the area, like who the local fed LEO's are for example. They also know the criminal element like who to buy contraband materials from. Most importantly they know how local security forces operate. They know how things are investigated, like how security forces might try to track down and guerrilla cell. They know how to evade capture better then most because they have been on the other side of the search. A former bomb squad member would probably be a very effective IED maker if they put their mind to it. Maybe they wouldn't be real good at setting up an L shaped ambush against dismounted platoon of soldiers in a rural area but they would make excellent urban guerrillas. If you had a group with former LEO's and former military combat arms guys then I think they would pretty effective. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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If you are talking about the government going crazy on us they probably would have a problem. You have to realize the amount of men in this country who are still true blooded Americans, even though the liberals hate us we would stand up. Many people have military a policee training so right there you have guys with tactics. Plus the amount of firepower us as civilians own is awesome. The other thing is a majority of people in the military and police would not go for it. Also logistics the government would have a hard time keeping up supplying their guys since I am sure small unit raids would happen. This is just my thoughts. Not meant to be a hit on leo but training from a police academy would have nothing to add to actual warfare, unless we're taking prisoners. I'd have to disagree with this. Police have basic familiarization with firearms, tactics, first aid, radio communications and hand to hand fighting. None of it is likely all that great but it is better then someone with no training at all. They likely have pretty advanced training in emergency driving. They have experience in dangerous situations and have seen blood and death up close. More importantly they have an intimate knowledge of their local area and it's population. They know who is who in the area, like who the local fed LEO's are for example. They also know the criminal element like who to buy contraband materials from. Most importantly they know how local security forces operate. They know how things are investigated, like how security forces might try to track down and guerrilla cell. They know how to evade capture better then most because they have been on the other side of the search. A former bomb squad member would probably be a very effective IED maker if they put their mind to it. Maybe they wouldn't be real good at setting up an L shaped ambush against dismounted platoon of soldiers in a rural area but they would make excellent urban guerrillas. If you had a group with former LEO's and former military combat arms guys then I think they would pretty effective. k lol What's your local cop shop's SOP for reacting to far ambush? |
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For you to assume that the Military and civilian law enforcement will stand down,and not follow orders,only means you have dismissed what history and its lessons have taught us,over and over again !!!!!!! View Quote It doesn't work without LEO and mil involvement. They would have to get them "on board" with any takeover, or it's dead before it begins. People like to eat, and if you threw in a couple of statements about terrorism, you would have plenty that would follow. But I bet there would be a few active, or formerly active, hardcore fuckers out there that would be willing to teach you a thing or two. |
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Organtuans. they are the clever ones. You want a bunch on your team. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I'd want a few howlers for psyops, some swinging monkeys for canopy security, lots of baboons to support the heavies, which would be the gorillas. Organtuans. they are the clever ones. You want a bunch on your team. Of course. They could be the SEALs |
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k lol What's your local cop shop's SOP for reacting to far ambush? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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If you are talking about the government going crazy on us they probably would have a problem. You have to realize the amount of men in this country who are still true blooded Americans, even though the liberals hate us we would stand up. Many people have military a policee training so right there you have guys with tactics. Plus the amount of firepower us as civilians own is awesome. The other thing is a majority of people in the military and police would not go for it. Also logistics the government would have a hard time keeping up supplying their guys since I am sure small unit raids would happen. This is just my thoughts. Not meant to be a hit on leo but training from a police academy would have nothing to add to actual warfare, unless we're taking prisoners. I'd have to disagree with this. Police have basic familiarization with firearms, tactics, first aid, radio communications and hand to hand fighting. None of it is likely all that great but it is better then someone with no training at all. They likely have pretty advanced training in emergency driving. They have experience in dangerous situations and have seen blood and death up close. More importantly they have an intimate knowledge of their local area and it's population. They know who is who in the area, like who the local fed LEO's are for example. They also know the criminal element like who to buy contraband materials from. Most importantly they know how local security forces operate. They know how things are investigated, like how security forces might try to track down and guerrilla cell. They know how to evade capture better then most because they have been on the other side of the search. A former bomb squad member would probably be a very effective IED maker if they put their mind to it. Maybe they wouldn't be real good at setting up an L shaped ambush against dismounted platoon of soldiers in a rural area but they would make excellent urban guerrillas. If you had a group with former LEO's and former military combat arms guys then I think they would pretty effective. k lol What's your local cop shop's SOP for reacting to far ambush? No idea, though I'm sure they have one for reacting to a near ambush since that happens often enough to cops. Why would they need one if they are the insurgents? They should be the ones doing the ambushing. Are insurgents dressed in civilian clothes operating in urban areas normally on the receiving end of a far ambush? I'm picturing former LEO's taking part in an urban insurgency like US forces went up against in Iraq, you seem to be picturing police agencies being targeted by guerrillas. |
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Riots would be short-lived. People go without food, water, electricity for a few days and they'll get compliant really quickly. Offer three hots and a cot in a "protected area" (like a former WalMart...) and those who survived the urban carnage would gladly toe the line. Look at Katrina. Those who were trapped for a few days happily marched into the Superdome for a chance to have food, water and shelter.
The cops gladly confiscated weapons and forced self-reliant people out of their homes. (Take note, preppers.) Ditto for the .mil. Now, I realize Katrina wasn't exactly FO time but it was a nice little dress rehersal. And, as for LEO and .mil "loyalty", I would imagine a few would join some kind of resistance but if their families were offered food and shelter on a secured base, you think they wouldn't do .gov's bidding? Jungle rules make us act like animals. TC |
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Never happen. .gov doesnt have the numbers to sustain any kind of fuckery against the entire population.
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Depends. If society is still together and the supermarkets are still open, I think Americans could be very effective. If people have to feed themselves.....I think the effectiveness would drop drastically. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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How effective would you expect the American people to be in conducting Guerrilla Warfare Depends. If society is still together and the supermarkets are still open, I think Americans could be very effective. If people have to feed themselves.....I think the effectiveness would drop drastically. Someone will have the food, and that someone is probably our Uncle. If he has it, it will get taken. |
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http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/03/1412329234065_wps_28_Gorillas_fight_over_a_tom.jpg View Quote Notice he spelled it correctly as for little wars in Spanish. Instead of spelling it for a great ape |
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Quoted: Unlike other guerrilla wars, this one would put general military up against the smartest people in the world. In Vietnam Iraq and Afghanistan we fought uneducated mobs of indoctrinated poor country folk. Here they would be up against the doctors, chemists, farmers, and engineers who wrote the text books they learned from. View Quote "who wrote the text books they learned from." what the fuck ever... |
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No idea, though I'm sure they have one for reacting to a near ambush since that happens often enough to cops. Why would they need one if they are the insurgents? They should be the ones doing the ambushing. Are insurgents dressed in civilian clothes operating in urban areas normally on the receiving end of a far ambush? I'm picturing former LEO's taking part in an urban insurgency like US forces went up against in Iraq, you seem to be picturing police agencies being targeted by guerrillas. View Quote lol Why do you have to worry about the opponents moves when you get the first move in checkers? |
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There would be plenty of Leo and mil guys lining up to man the ovens. There are however way too many former combat soldiers who actually love their freedom to try anything too abrupt. Baby steps.....its already happening.
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VC sat a good example. They were so effective because they were willing to spend months in the rainforest without a roof eating rat meat and cold rice. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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History's most effective guerillas come from some of the poorest societies on earth. Most of them are so fanatically devoted to their cause that they abandon regard for human life, not only their enemies but that of their comrades and innocents. You just don't find that in the west, even in elite military units. It's that third world hardness that even the toughest, non-criminally insane Americans will never have. Victor Charlie did not live without a roof for months at time eating rat meat for R&R, that would be the NVA, the real hard-asses. Victor Charlie worked during the day and hit and ran at night when he wanted too. Guerrilla warfare isn't chess, it is a game of checkers that starts when the guerrilla wants to start and each game ends whenever the guerrilla wants to quit for the day. |
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All anyone has to do to bring civilization in the United States to a grinding halt is to shut down the Interstate highway system. To do that you don't have to control/destroy the whole stupid thing. You just have to destroy/control key points, bridges, etc.
Take, I don't know, the Jersey Turnpike, for example. How hard would it be to shut down the Jersey Turnpike, especially if you had access to a few armored vehicles? Hell, even without armor it would be easier to shut it down that it is to keep it open. A bad traffic accident can shut most Interstate highways down. Hell, an empty box in the middle of the road can almost shut most of them down. Trucks stop rolling, people starve. Period. Now, who does it and why they do is far outside the scope of this post (), which is intended for conversational purposes only. |
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All anyone has to do to bring civilization in the United States to a grinding halt is to shut down the Interstate highway system. To do that you don't have to control/destroy the whole stupid thing. You just have to destroy/control key points, bridges, etc. Take, I don't know, the Jersey Turnpike, for example. How hard would it be to shut down the Jersey Turnpike, especially if you had access to a few armored vehicles? Hell, even without armor it would be easier to shut it down that it is to keep it open. A bad traffic accident can shut most Interstate highways down. Hell, an empty box in the middle of the road can almost shut most of them down. Trucks stop rolling, people starve. Period. Now, who does it and why they do is far outside the scope of this post (), which is intended for conversational purposes only. View Quote Bullshit. |
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lol Why do you have to worry about the opponents moves when you get the first move in checkers? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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No idea, though I'm sure they have one for reacting to a near ambush since that happens often enough to cops. Why would they need one if they are the insurgents? They should be the ones doing the ambushing. Are insurgents dressed in civilian clothes operating in urban areas normally on the receiving end of a far ambush? I'm picturing former LEO's taking part in an urban insurgency like US forces went up against in Iraq, you seem to be picturing police agencies being targeted by guerrillas. lol Why do you have to worry about the opponents moves when you get the first move in checkers? lol You only have to worry about the moves your opponent can use. If you are playing checkers you don't worry about them sinking your battleship or connecting four. In order to pull off a far ambush you need to be able to recognize and target your enemy from a distance. If you are an urban guerrilla and your enemy can determine that from a distance you are doing something very wrong. Guerrillas hide amongst the populace and aim to be indistinguishable from them. Difficult to do a far ambush when you can't tell who is who. |
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View Quote Ever notice, that the barrel of that rifle has no opening? |
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VC sat a good example. They were so effective because they were willing to spend months in the rainforest without a roof eating rat meat and cold rice. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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History's most effective guerillas come from some of the poorest societies on earth. Most of them are so fanatically devoted to their cause that they abandon regard for human life, not only their enemies but that of their comrades and innocents. You just don't find that in the west, even in elite military units. It's that third world hardness that even the toughest, non-criminally insane Americans will never have. Squatting in the jungle getting harder, while I sit here getting weaker... |
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Quoted: lol You only have to worry about the moves your opponent can use. If you are playing checkers you don't worry about them sinking your battleship or connecting four. In order to pull off a far ambush you need to be able to recognize and target your enemy from a distance. If you are an urban guerrilla and your enemy can determine that from a distance you are doing something very wrong. Guerrillas hide amongst the populace and aim to be indistinguishable from them. Difficult to do a far ambush when you can't tell who is who. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No idea, though I'm sure they have one for reacting to a near ambush since that happens often enough to cops. Why would they need one if they are the insurgents? They should be the ones doing the ambushing. Are insurgents dressed in civilian clothes operating in urban areas normally on the receiving end of a far ambush? I'm picturing former LEO's taking part in an urban insurgency like US forces went up against in Iraq, you seem to be picturing police agencies being targeted by guerrillas. lol Why do you have to worry about the opponents moves when you get the first move in checkers? lol You only have to worry about the moves your opponent can use. If you are playing checkers you don't worry about them sinking your battleship or connecting four. In order to pull off a far ambush you need to be able to recognize and target your enemy from a distance. If you are an urban guerrilla and your enemy can determine that from a distance you are doing something very wrong. Guerrillas hide amongst the populace and aim to be indistinguishable from them. Difficult to do a far ambush when you can't tell who is who. Guerrillas don't hide that well when money is thrown at the locals to dime them out. In fact, it makes it pretty easy. LOL it's fallacy in this day and age with modern intelligence gathering to think that people can't tell who is who. |
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http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DJDrydm1Xd0/T_n8c5UtWwI/AAAAAAAAAWQ/Elg8XhNuOXM/s1600/Guerilla+Warfare.jpg View Quote I didn't realize center pivots were a thing in South Africa. |
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Russia and China would support the right wing insurgency in the US and by attacking the US DoD abroad. The more internal conflict they can get us in, the better off they will be. Still wanna riot? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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How effective would you expect the American people to be in conducting Guerrilla Warfare If you're truly interested, look into the level of support from foreign nations which most successful insurgencies receive (and even unsuccessful ones, for that matter). From where would Americans get such support? Russia and China would support the right wing insurgency in the US and by attacking the US DoD abroad. The more internal conflict they can get us in, the better off they will be. Still wanna riot? Aaaaand they've had their fingers in domestic issues recently, too. |
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