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I agree especially if he's talking about something with little info available.and he makes a speculation...

but not when it's things that are commonly known and he gets it wrong.  Inexcusable...period

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The FAL is still in use in large numbers, and by many countries, just not by many that sent troops to Afghanistan (I think only New Zealand sent troops with FALs in DMR roles, although more recently they have been replaced in this role; the RNZN still makes some use of them).

Large numbers of countries in Africa and Latin America, some in Asia, and some in Europe, still use them to varying degrees.  They still see action in those countries involved with external  conflicts, problems with drug cartels and violent poachers, or issues with terrorism or insurrection, as well as those in the thralls of civil war.  The Netherlands donated all of its FALs owned by the Army and Air Force (Navy still uses them for some purposes, and so they kept theirs) to the Kurdish Peshmerga for the fight against ISIS (I got to see some pictures of Dutch troops taking them out to shoot one last time before shipping them out).

I'd take a modernized FAL over a modernized G-3, easily.  Put a railed scope mount on it, a set of MLOK handguards on it, set it up for QD swivels, put a Minimi/SAW grip on it, an extended selector, and, if using a folder, putting on one of those cheek rests I've seen for the FNC which can help with optics.  Put it in its lightweight configuration (trigger housing, magazines, and several other parts being made of hiduminium instead of steel; a 17" Para FAL in a basic configuration like this can come in under 8 1/2 lbs. with magazine, maybe even down to 8 1/4) and utilize sand-cut components.  For some extra weight, the DSA BRS can be used, which gives it a stock with functions similar to the type on SCARs and other 7.62mm combat rifles of the latest generation.  I find the ergonomics of the FAL to be quite superior to the G-3, and I find them to have better triggers, and so modernized, the FAL really doesn't fail to offer anything substantial which a similarly modernized G-3 does in fact offer (the modernized G-3s basically have similar upgrades; modular handguard, rail for mounting optics, some changes or additions to the stock to make them better for optics, etc.).

I'm not sure where this whole "FAL has completely fallen by the wayside, while the G-3 soldiers on around the world" thing common here came from, as it is not rooted in reality.  Both see continued use in substantial numbers, and both are really good enough to be able to do so and continue to do so.  I believe both are still produced to some extent [IMBEL, at least, for the FAL (not sure if FMAP shut down its production again, or if Nigeria shut down its production), and I'm fairly certain at least one licensed producer of military G-3s still makes them].  Some countries use both side-by-side (Greece, Pakistan, Mexico, etc.).

Something like these, but perhaps with more modular handguards (or even as-is) would seem to be plenty serviceable:

https://res.cloudinary.com/enliven/image/upload/c_fill,g_faces,q_auto:eco,f_auto,dpr_1.0,w_1024,h_1536/v1/imageset/rgp_tfsc_rhino_tears_2016_1293.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/enliven/image/upload/c_fill,g_faces,q_auto:eco,f_auto,dpr_1.0,w_1024,h_682/v1/imageset/rgp_tfsc_rhino_tears_2016_1264_1.jpg

https://res.cloudinary.com/enliven/image/upload/c_fill,g_faces,q_auto:eco,f_auto,dpr_1.0,w_1024,h_1536/v1/imageset/rgp_tfsc_rhino_tears_2016_1059.jpg

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-equipment-used-by-the-special-antipoaching-operations-unit-whilst-picture-id142474873?s=2048x2048

And then there are these private efforts at modernization, using what's on the market, as well as a picture of one of Brazil's modernized configurations:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50906535592_6ebd91050d_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50905710943_41c462b4ab_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50906535557_fd74e5c3ac_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50905710923_4231ce0298_c.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jcOidvU.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hwFY5yYh.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETVAqfrUwAAyShv?format=jpg&name=small

https://uca5ec8847f805fe0f30e02fbcad.dl.dropboxusercontent.com/cd/0/inline/BIQIF3PqzVk_13M-pxO_lMBJ0z68cbgjz0OeYdUpq9v_Az1_2BDNV3Xhks9TeKmHBracZH1uy0DcBwiAC5q4sunQb-2_JIBI_-ek3RIsfLgcVPcTbyP8RrKmLBO0u6r3c6E/file#

Quoted:

He's also been dead for sixty years, so he can't curate his own website about the topic.  He also wasn't the only person involved.  He also didn't document *everything* (just a shitload).  He was also human.  History is messy.

And some people are insufferably jealous & bitter.

You know, Ian has comments open on his site; maybe drop your encyclopedic knowledge there to correct him when he's mistaken on occasion.  God forbid he ever misstate one figment of minutiae on a huge, sprawling, highly technical topic, for your unpaid entertainment.



It's not a matter of fanbois & haters, this is just...sad.  Comic book nerd shit times a thousand.

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Nah I'm just going to refrain from selling myself as an all knowing gun expert.

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LOL, trashcan design still belongs in a trash can.

Roller lock is literally the most retarded thing Ze Germans have ever invented, gun wise at least.

Their WW2 tank transmissions get an honorable mention, simply because they were attached to a gun.

Funny how AK's and even AR-15's don't need scheduled maintenance to literally the most important/dangerous dimension of the gun (headspace).

I'll make it simple for the mouth breathers, rollers concentrate force on a linear contact point, the AK and AR (and every other design) distribute the force on a planar contact area.

That's why the roller lock wears out so fast, needing bigger rollers every "x" number of rounds (and X = not very big number), greatly increased PSI.

Or kilograms per square meter, or whatever...

Fucking stupid ass design.

Quoted:
you guys get bent out of shape over really trivial shit

Quoted:
LOL, trashcan design still belongs in a trash can.

Roller lock is literally the most retarded thing Ze Germans have ever invented, gun wise at least.

Their WW2 tank transmissions get an honorable mention, simply because they were attached to a gun.

Funny how AK's and even AR-15's don't need scheduled maintenance to literally the most important/dangerous dimension of the gun (headspace).

I'll make it simple for the mouth breathers, rollers concentrate force on a linear contact point, the AK and AR (and every other design) distribute the force on a planar contact area.

That's why the roller lock wears out so fast, needing bigger rollers every "x" number of rounds (and X = not very big number), greatly increased PSI.

Or kilograms per square meter, or whatever...

Fucking stupid ass design.

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Laughs in SCAR

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That’s what you get for buying Belgian crap, when you could’ve bought Teutonic steel.

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G3 rifles are good but have some drawbacks.  They're all heavy because of that massive receiver and bolt carrier.  The charging handle is awkward and the other ergonomics might be bad too depending on the configuration and furniture.  The trigger's a bit heavy.  

I'd rather have an M14-type.  It weighs about a pound less, has a perfect trigger, better sights (longer radius, click-adjustable windage, more elevation range, better sight picture, no wobble in the rear aperture), has a shorter profile top-to-bottom, can take a shooting sling, is easier to clean, etc.  The action's open but that might work both ways if you need to clear the debris out with your fingers.  

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Not talking about PCC's like the MP5, with weak little 9mm pew pews, talking about high power, like 308.

OP keeps accurate count of the MP5 @500,000... but dances all around their G3 round count. and never will give a direct answer, just an "upgrade the rollers when it starts to jam, until that don't work no more"

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-My-experiences-with-high-round-count-HK-s-and-HK-clones/9-476802/?page=3

Outside of major breakage, and with regular spring changes (as all guns should get) AK/AR will be good for 100,000 rounds, easy, and by that time the barrel will be about shot out anyways.

Roller lock issues? Malfunctions that randomly begin as the trunnion/bolt start to wear down... requiring new rollers to keep it running.

And, once it does finally wear out past the ability of new rollers to compensate, replacement is a major rebuild with all the issues that entails, like welding in new trunnions, tuning it to run right, again...

AR15 is about a 5 minute job to replace the barrel and bolt, that includes picking your nose.

AK47 system is a bit more involved than an AR15, but still much less than an H&K, and with none of the "tuning" issues involved in rebuilding a roller lock.

The HK design has no bolt handle and no forward assist, which i just plain dumb on a combat/hunting rifle.  

Roller lock is more ammo sensitive than other designs, maybe even as bad as the M1 Garand.

Can't be easily suppressed unless it's built specifically for that. No quick changes like gas guns. It's a TUNED system, like the USAF Zip22

If you do get it actually dirty, it's a PITA to clean, if you do get sand in it, it's toast short of a major cleaning.

AK laughs at sand and freeze/condensation cycles.

Like a lot of German designs, it's a great gun, as long as everything is perfect, but it's sensitive to chaos. Combat is literally chaos.

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G3 rifles are good but have some drawbacks.  They're all heavy because of that massive receiver and bolt carrier.  The charging handle is awkward and the other ergonomics might be bad too depending on the configuration and furniture.  The trigger's a bit heavy.  

I'd rather have an M14-type.  It weighs about a pound less, has a perfect trigger, better sights (longer radius, click-adjustable windage, more elevation range, better sight picture, no wobble in the rear aperture), has a shorter profile top-to-bottom, can take a shooting sling, is easier to clean, etc.  The action's open but that might work both ways if you need to clear the debris out with your fingers.  

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There is a reason no other country adopted the M14. We couldn’t even give them away.

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Not true we managed to give away quite a few during 90's   ...  

Quoted:
G3 rifles are good but have some drawbacks.  They're all heavy because of that massive receiver and bolt carrier.  The charging handle is awkward and the other ergonomics might be bad too depending on the configuration and furniture.  The trigger's a bit heavy.  

I'd rather have an M14-type.  It weighs about a pound less, has a perfect trigger, better sights (longer radius, click-adjustable windage, more elevation range, better sight picture, no wobble in the rear aperture), has a shorter profile top-to-bottom, can take a shooting sling, is easier to clean, etc.  The action's open but that might work both ways if you need to clear the debris out with your fingers.  

Quoted:
Not talking about PCC's like the MP5, with weak little 9mm pew pews, talking about high power, like 308.

OP keeps accurate count of the MP5 @500,000... but dances all around their G3 round count. and never will give a direct answer, just an "upgrade the rollers when it starts to jam, until that don't work no more"

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-My-experiences-with-high-round-count-HK-s-and-HK-clones/9-476802/?page=3

Outside of major breakage, and with regular spring changes (as all guns should get) AK/AR will be good for 100,000 rounds, easy, and by that time the barrel will be about shot out anyways.

Roller lock issues? Malfunctions that randomly begin as the trunnion/bolt start to wear down... requiring new rollers to keep it running.

And, once it does finally wear out past the ability of new rollers to compensate, replacement is a major rebuild with all the issues that entails, like welding in new trunnions, tuning it to run right, again...

AR15 is about a 5 minute job to replace the barrel and bolt, that includes picking your nose.

AK47 system is a bit more involved than an AR15, but still much less than an H&K, and with none of the "tuning" issues involved in rebuilding a roller lock.

The HK design has no bolt handle and no forward assist, which i just plain dumb on a combat/hunting rifle.  

Roller lock is more ammo sensitive than other designs, maybe even as bad as the M1 Garand.

Can't be easily suppressed unless it's built specifically for that. No quick changes like gas guns. It's a TUNED system, like the USAF Zip22

If you do get it actually dirty, it's a PITA to clean, if you do get sand in it, it's toast short of a major cleaning.

AK laughs at sand and freeze/condensation cycles.

Like a lot of German designs, it's a great gun, as long as everything is perfect, but it's sensitive to chaos. Combat is literally chaos.

Quoted:


The HK design has no bolt handle and no forward assist, which i just plain dumb on a combat/hunting rifle.  

Quoted:
While looking for a picture of an FAL FA hole I found this from LV. "For my particular version I used an Israeli mag release, a Norwegian AK4 style modified FAL bolt carrier with forward assist scallop, and DSA scope mount"

I'd like to see a picture of that. Still looking.

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I hope you've changed your recoil spring at least once.

There are times when you need to chamber a round quietly, or (god forbid) do a chamber check. Quietly.

Or take the safety off quietly (a downfall of the AK, if you don't know the art of moving the safety quietly). In Vietnam you'd here "clicketly click" right before an ambush kicked off.

I read an account of a US soldier in Iraq that made it through a gun fight (during a sand storm) by slapping the forward assist every round, when his gun started jamming halfway through the fight. For some reason the jihad rifles kept shooting just fine.

Sorry...

I'm sure you never needed to use the forward assist on your well maintained, clean m16, during a nice safe target shooting match, without mud/blood/sand flying everywhere, & you can call time out at any time.

The AK design can literally be cleaned with anything, the M16 is a bit more involved, a special swab may be needed, although I treat mine like a princess, so I've never even bought one of those star shaped swabs.

A roller lock has fiddly bits. Sure, the rollers are hard, and the trunnion is hard, and ment to crush sand, if needed, but that's not always enough. Tiny moving parts on a locking mechanism on the most important part of the gun?

Such German, Very Reich, Much Fuhrer

The German design concept is one major reason they lost.

Sure, they had the "best" gear in the world... and it also required the highest maintenance.

The HK is a tuned mechanism, something as simple as having to use a different brand of ammo, or adding a suppressor can make it jam up, like shooting a 300BlowOut semi.

What was the count on variations for various tunings that HK went though to get it "right"?

87 variants to find the propper geometry?

What a nightmare to service...

A gas gun? You can just put on an adjustable gas block and keep on trucking.

Quoted:
The British SAS enjoyed the G3 in different guises for a long time including the MC51 which was in effect a MP5 in 7.62.

Quoted:


I hope you've changed your recoil spring at least once.

There are times when you need to chamber a round quietly, or (god forbid) do a chamber check. Quietly.

Or take the safety off quietly (a downfall of the AK, if you don't know the art of moving the safety quietly). In Vietnam you'd here "clicketly click" right before an ambush kicked off.

I read an account of a US soldier in Iraq that made it through a gun fight (during a sand storm) by slapping the forward assist every round, when his gun started jamming halfway through the fight. For some reason the jihad rifles kept shooting just fine.

Sorry...

I'm sure you never needed to use the forward assist on your well maintained, clean m16, during a nice safe target shooting match, without mud/blood/sand flying everywhere, & you can call time out at any time.

The AK design can literally be cleaned with anything, the M16 is a bit more involved, a special swab may be needed, although I treat mine like a princess, so I've never even bought one of those star shaped swabs.

A roller lock has fiddly bits. Sure, the rollers are hard, and the trunnion is hard, and ment to crush sand, if needed, but that's not always enough. Tiny moving parts on a locking mechanism on the most important part of the gun?

Such German, Very Reich, Much Fuhrer

The German design concept is one major reason they lost.

Sure, they had the "best" gear in the world... and it also required the highest maintenance.

The HK is a tuned mechanism, something as simple as having to use a different brand of ammo, or adding a suppressor can make it jam up, like shooting a 300BlowOut semi.

What was the count on variations for various tunings that HK went though to get it "right"?

87 variants to find the propper geometry?

What a nightmare to service...

A gas gun? You can just put on an adjustable gas block and keep on trucking.