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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:33:04 PM EDT
[#1]
What have you tried so far?
Any other contact methods like FB? |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:34:00 PM EDT
[#2]
 Never. You're just out the gun. Damn |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:34:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Sooner rather than later. Time is not your friend.
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:34:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Find out the owners name and give him a call. Otherwise pay him a friendly visit. Around here everyone knows everybody.
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:35:32 PM EDT
[#5]
Go to the owners house and convince him he needs to give you back your fucking gun
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:36:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never. You're just out the gun. Damn Doubtful |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:37:32 PM EDT
[#7]
I’d probably look up the owner’s address and nicely knock on his door and politely explain that during all the hubbub of closing shop he had neglected to return your rifle.
And then maybe take him to court. Local LE is going to regard it (rightly) as a civil matter. ATF probably won’t give a shit, but maybe they can leverage some FFL regulation for you. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:40:15 PM EDT
[#8]
Happened to a family member. Lost two nice rifles. Business went bankrupt, stock disappeared and no one cared afterwards. Sucks OP.
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:40:52 PM EDT
[#9]
Civil matter.
Send a certified letter demanding your gun back or you will be forced to file a suit in claims court. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:41:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Go to the owners house and convince him he needs to give you back your fucking gun Buy this shirt to wear on your visit. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:41:17 PM EDT
[#11]
I had that happen with a compound bow that was supposed to be sent back under warranty; it was a combination archery and gun store I'd done a bit of business with and they went out of business.
The store owner got my bow and returned it to me; always remembered him doing right by me despite the difficulty he was going through. Good luck. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:41:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Username fits
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:50:11 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sooner rather than later. Time is not your friend. This. You already let it languish to long. Counter party risk exists. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:52:52 PM EDT
[#14]
If the gun store ghosts you and keeps your firearm, the only recourse you have is via civil suit. However, if the business is an LLC you really don't even have that.
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:54:22 PM EDT
[#15]
The atf? Never.
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:55:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Still haven't gotten my HAC-7 rifle back from Halloway Arms Company...so don't feel bad...
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:55:55 PM EDT
[#17]
Check local auction houses and see if anyone is handling the liquidation.
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:56:10 PM EDT
[#18]
If someone had my Garand I would be beating on a door.
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:57:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Report it stolen and fuck them up
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:58:15 PM EDT
[#20]
This is an actual dilemma not a moral one.
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:58:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Go to the owners house and convince him he needs to give you back your fucking gun This |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:58:50 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is an actual dilemma not a moral one. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 2:59:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Call the ATF
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Posted: 10/21/2023 3:02:35 PM EDT
[#24]
The gun has been literally stolen. How is only a civil matter?
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Posted: 10/21/2023 3:03:05 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Report it stolen and fuck them up Yeah, filing a false police report is the way to go. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 3:11:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The gun has been literally stolen. How is only a civil matter? Because it wasn’t stolen. OP dropped it off, entering into a civil agreement to have work done on it, and the business went under. No intent to deprive, look up your state’s definition of theft for actual language. Regardless of the state it won’t fit. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 3:13:23 PM EDT
[#27]
To answer, I’ve called, texted and messaged their business and owner on Facebook. No reply yet.
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Posted: 10/21/2023 3:15:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: So here’s a moral dilemma for the group. No, it isn't. <----FFL who says you need to act fast. A local gun shop of mine recently went out of business. They’ve had a M1 Garand of mine that they were swapping the receiver on. They’ve definitely been taking their time on it, however last communication the swap had been completed. However the business is now out of business and seems to be refusing communication. If they are local and aren't answering the phone or email......go in person. It's not theft, (you gave them the gun) it's conversion. I know we prefer not to involve the man in our lives, but at what point do I get law enforcement and or the FATF involved? Seriously? If it was your car would you take the same attitude? The very minute you heard the were OOB, you should have been at their door. If they are refusing to answer the door, phone calls or emails.......you bring the man into their lives. ATF will likely say its a civil matter. You need to tell them the gun shop is in possession of your receiver and need it lawfully transferred. ATF will like that. Do you know why they went OOB? Illness or death of the owner is possible, meaning no one knows how to continue business or isn't able to do so. Revoked FFL means ATF will be on the business to dispose of firearms. Bankrupt or debt ridden means you may not get squat. Name the shop. It won't hurt his business. 
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Posted: 10/21/2023 3:15:48 PM EDT
[#29]
<-- FFL
Depends on why the store is out of business. If the ATF raided and seized everything because the owner was playing fast and loose with firearm laws then you'll have to fight with the ATF to get it back. If the owner declared bankruptcy then you make a claim in that court. If the owner died then you'll have to deal with the estate executor. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 3:17:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The gun has been literally stolen. How is only a civil matter? Literally, no it hasn't. "Stolen" means theft, which is a criminal act. OP handed the business the firearm. What occurred is likely conversion. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 3:22:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Happened to my BIL . Owner locked the doors . Then began a stall campaign of sickness , then divorce ,my dog ran away, etc . Finally owner emptied the building and tried to hide in Savannah , Ga.
BIL had to take the joker to court as a Civil matter . And was successful . Received 2 pistols back as a box of parts . gd |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 3:22:51 PM EDT
[#32]
I had a few people answer me fast after a Small Claims law suit.
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Posted: 10/21/2023 3:23:35 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To answer, I’ve called, texted and messaged their business and owner on Facebook. No reply yet. maybe if you lived in an actual state, instead of just the "usa"? since you seem to live at the federal level, it seems to be a federal matter. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 3:24:47 PM EDT
[#34]
Not stolen and things are going to be incredibly difficult. Lost a S&W 17 and a Remington 700 when the local gunshop owner blew all his credit card limits on strippers and he bailed for parts unknown with the inventory.
Don't EVER deal with a guy named Brian Keegan. 
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Posted: 10/21/2023 3:25:14 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doubtful Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Never. You're just out the gun. Damn Doubtful With op's passive approach to getting his shit back?  You sure?
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Posted: 10/21/2023 3:30:06 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Literally, no it hasn't. "Stolen" means theft, which is a criminal act. OP handed the business the firearm. What occurred is likely conversion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The gun has been literally stolen. How is only a civil matter? Literally, no it hasn't. "Stolen" means theft, which is a criminal act. OP handed the business the firearm. What occurred is likely conversion. He gave it them with the agreement that they give it back. When they disappear in the middle of the night without returning it.....seems that's a lot like stealing it. Conversion definition from the internets: "Conversion is when someone “converts” your property to their possession. AKA when they steal it from you and pretend that they own it. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 3:32:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Sorry this happened OP.
Especially in today's economy, businesses are going tits up all the time. This, and the desire to know how to do things properly, is why I will spend money on tools and spend time on learning, in order to do most gun work myself. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 3:34:00 PM EDT
[#38]
I would definitely talk to that gunsmith alone and give him a single chance to do you right. After that I would ensure he receives additional expense.
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Posted: 10/21/2023 4:07:43 PM EDT
[#39]
Good luck. Years ago I had a gun on consignment that sold. Had to chase the owner down for payment that wound up in the form of a check. Went to the bank it was written on trying to get payment and waited over an hour for it to get cashed finding out it needed a certain level banking person's approval since they were in some form of financial trouble or maybe bankruptcy.
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Posted: 10/21/2023 4:12:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sooner rather than later. Time is not your friend. This. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 4:24:48 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He gave it them with the agreement that they give it back. When they disappear in the middle of the night without returning it.....seems that's a lot like stealing it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The gun has been literally stolen. How is only a civil matter? Literally, no it hasn't. "Stolen" means theft, which is a criminal act. OP handed the business the firearm. What occurred is likely conversion. He gave it them with the agreement that they give it back. When they disappear in the middle of the night without returning it.....seems that's a lot like stealing it. It may seem that way, yes. But it's not theft or "stealing". Conversion definition from the internets: "Conversion is when someone “converts” your property to their possession. AKA when they steal it from you and pretend that they own it. I should have hotlinked to that explanation....oh wait. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 4:29:18 PM EDT
[#42]
I had a shop go outta business with my incoming/awaiting form 4 transferable MG in their inventory. They too just stopped communicating. With that, we were on the horn asap with FATF, and played the "unaccountable machine gun - save the children!" angle
 , and man, they straightened it out asap. ETA, we had JUST received the form 4 right before they went tits up.... |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 4:30:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seriously? If it was your car would you take the same attitude? The very minute you heard the were OOB, you should have been at their door. If they are refusing to answer the door, phone calls or emails.......you bring the man into their lives. There are times to invite the man into someone's life. Stolen property, if not being willingly returned, is one of them. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 4:36:45 PM EDT
[#44]
I'd call the police and fatf.
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Posted: 10/21/2023 4:39:27 PM EDT
[#45]
As other FFL's have said....
This isn't a moral dilemma. ATF won't do anything. It is a civil matter. File in small claims court. It's not theft, nothing was stolen from you. You willingly transferred possession. Sometimes people go out of business. Sometimes they don't try to return your items. People suck. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 4:41:09 PM EDT
[#46]
Lol, get your husband to go to the owner's house.
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Posted: 10/21/2023 4:42:56 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’d probably look up the owner’s address and nicely knock on his door and politely explain that during all the hubbub of closing shop he had neglected to return your rifle. And then maybe take him to court. Local LE is going to regard it (rightly) as a civil matter. ATF probably won’t give a shit, but maybe they can leverage some FFL regulation for you. Not if he reports the gun as stolen and has it entered in NCIC. That would constitute a felony. OP - have an attorney send the gun shop owner a letter demanding your property be returned or civil and/or criminal litigation will be pursued. That should get his attention. If not, pull the trigger and get your property back. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 4:43:51 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, filing a false police report is the way to go. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Report it stolen and fuck them up Yeah, filing a false police report is the way to go. It’s not a false report if the owner is depriving him of his property. |
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Posted: 10/21/2023 4:48:49 PM EDT
[#49]
I think a key point is, do you know both the serial numbers of the receivers involved?
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Posted: 10/21/2023 4:55:52 PM EDT
[#50]
With a bit of work you can probably find the owners address and personal cell number and contact him.
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