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Posted: 4/10/2023 4:57:27 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm a firearms enthusiast, but sadly inept in knowledge of obscure historical firearms. I love threads like this.
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Posted: 4/10/2023 5:33:04 PM EDT
[#2]
All already been mentioned.
The 1911 has to be the #1 though. More than 100 years later and it's still basically not been improved much by anyone. |
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Posted: 4/10/2023 6:11:39 PM EDT
[#3]
 Fosbery's Pump Shotgun: An AR15 Bolt in 1891 Look at the giant Johnson on this shotgun. By that I mean the oversized, Johnson type radially-lugged bolt. Late 19th century. Probably not the first radial bolt ever made, but the earliest I've seen. Truly ahead of its time in this regard, as this has become the standard locking mechanism in virtually all modern individual small arms. |
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Posted: 4/10/2023 6:43:01 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/3097/B414F9C0-52B3-45B3-A3C3-117CB77EA241-2776468.jpg whitney wolverine Always wanted one of these sweet looking pistol |
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Posted: 4/10/2023 6:44:32 PM EDT
[#5]
EM-2 bullpup
Johnson rifle, LMG, and carbine |
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Posted: 4/10/2023 6:48:42 PM EDT
[#6]
VP-70 first polymer gun and a high capacity to boot.
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Posted: 4/10/2023 6:51:36 PM EDT
[#7]
The AR15. Took the standard SVT/AR180 gas piston and integrated those parts where they could do double duty.
No other design has been able to top the AR15 as far as weight, accuracy and adaptability is concerned |
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Posted: 4/10/2023 6:51:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Page three and no mention of the Sturm Gewehr ?
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Posted: 4/10/2023 6:55:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Page three and no mention of the Sturm Gewehr ? Technically predated by the Fedorov and M1 carbine |
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Posted: 4/10/2023 6:56:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Merwyn Hulbert pistols - the tolerances were better suited for today's manufacturing smokeless ammo than the last part of the 19th century, with black powder ammunition and fouling.
The Spencer Repeating Shotgun of 1882. Easily predates St John Browning and his Win 93 and 97 designs. |
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Posted: 4/10/2023 7:01:07 PM EDT
[#11]
VP-70 first polymer gun and a high capacity to boot.
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Posted: 4/10/2023 7:01:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: VZ-61 Skorpion beat the PM-63 by a few years but I will admit the PM-63 is really neat and I'm looking forward to building mine. VZ-61 is also holster able SMG/machine pistol that is similar to a scaled down VZ58 in a few notable ways. The VZ61 is lighter and shorter when folded. Due to the magazine it is taller. 32ACP is pretty anemic. I've also got a PM-63 to put back together. The Soviets also had their Stechkin APS in 1951, but it fits squarely into the true "machinepistol" category. |
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Posted: 4/10/2023 7:01:21 PM EDT
[#13]
The M1 carbine.
SCHV is not a very well defined concept (for example if you're coming from .45-70, even .30-40 krag will seem pretty small and fast). But the M1 and M2 carbines served as the US militaries first real test bed for the idea, owing to the fact they were short, light, select fire and had DBM's |
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Posted: 4/10/2023 7:04:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Haven’t read the whole thread, but I think the Garand gets a spot.
Yes, still a heavy blued and wood battle rifle, but… a semi auto blued and wood battle rifle. No one else was using a semi, and it gave the US a good advantage. Still one of the few semi 30-06’s. One of the best. |
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Posted: 4/10/2023 7:16:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Technically predated by the Fedorov and M1 carbine Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Page three and no mention of the Sturm Gewehr ? Technically predated by the Fedorov and M1 carbine I am not sure either are Assault Rifles as we know them. The Stg was. |
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Posted: 4/10/2023 7:19:23 PM EDT
[#16]
Armalite AR-15
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Posted: 4/10/2023 7:24:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not sure either are Assault Rifles as we know them. The Stg was. Both intermediate caliber, DBM, select fire* *The carbine was envisioned as select fire, but that was dropped to ease production, abd only came back in 1944 with the M2 upgrade We can argue about how the guns were intended to be used, but thats not what the thread is really about. |
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Posted: 4/10/2023 7:25:00 PM EDT
[#18]
The Glock 7. You know what that is? It's a porcelain gun made in Germany. It doesn't show up on your airport X-ray machines and it costs more than what you make in a month.
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Posted: 4/10/2023 7:26:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Mg-42. Still hard to beat today. The MG3 is still going strong. Quoted: Browning .50 cal. Quoted: 1911 |
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Posted: 4/10/2023 7:26:28 PM EDT
[#20]
FG-42, amazing gun
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Posted: 4/10/2023 7:31:39 PM EDT
[#21]
Chambers gun (1790s) and similar superposed ammunition weapons from the 16th to 18th centuries seem to be significantly ahead of their time
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Posted: 4/10/2023 7:41:40 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 4/10/2023 7:45:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ar15/m16 May have had issues out the gate but I remember Vietnam Vet's complaining about a lightweight plastic gun with varmint rounds getting issued and this was guys I met in the 90s. Very few problems with the M-16 in the two units I served in. 9th Div Mekong Delta rainy season... We lived in water & mud. Cleaned in diesel fuel and slathered with LSA Mags were the main problem |
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Posted: 4/10/2023 7:55:56 PM EDT
[#24]
For got to quote. See post #4.
Oh, such ignorance of history. While the government of France surrendered and allowed the country to be divided into a puppet state (Vichy France) and occupied France, the French people did not surrender. Besides continuing to fight a war of terrorism (the word hadn't been invented yet) against the Nazis, they rescued and repatriated downed allied airmen. And when the invasions (yea, there were two) of France occured, Operations Overlord and Dragoon, the resistance fighters were key to their success. Do they not teach history in shool anymore? And in case anyone wants to bring up Southeast Asia, yes they lost. So did we! And WW I, the French lost over 2,000,000 more men than the British. About the same as the British and the US combined. |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 12:10:20 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And WW I, the French lost over 2,000,000 more men than the British. About the same as the British and the US combined. lolwut? |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 12:22:27 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lolwut? That math injured my brain. |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 12:50:52 AM EDT
[#27]
Walther PP, Da/sa trigger , safety/decoder , loaded chamber indicator and mag release button in the right place. All in 1929
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Posted: 4/13/2023 12:54:21 AM EDT
[#28]
 Since nobody has mentioned it - H&K P7 |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 1:45:34 AM EDT
[#29]
I’m going with the 1960s Gyrojet rocket guns that fired rocket-propelled ammunition. So far ahead of its time we still haven’t caught up.
  
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Posted: 4/13/2023 2:20:10 AM EDT
[#30]
Steyr Aug
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Posted: 4/13/2023 2:23:01 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One day I will have one. Quote History |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 3:27:05 AM EDT
[#32]
Either the Mondragon m1908 for first semi auto rotating bolt firearm or the RSC 1917 for first widely fielded semi auto rifle
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Posted: 4/13/2023 3:34:40 AM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 4/13/2023 3:40:05 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haven't read the whole thread, but I think the Garand gets a spot. Yes, still a heavy blued and wood battle rifle, but a semi auto blued and wood battle rifle. No one else was using a semi, and it gave the US a good advantage. Still one of the few semi 30-06's. One of the best. Garands were parkerized, not blued. |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 3:47:20 AM EDT
[#35]
Maxim. Its invention would lead to the end of war.
No use in fighting if everyone just gets mowed down. Just look at how peaceful things have been for the past 140 years. |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 4:00:03 AM EDT
[#36]
1977
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Posted: 4/13/2023 4:18:03 AM EDT
[#37]
Beretta 93R
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Posted: 4/13/2023 4:23:00 AM EDT
[#38]
Not bad for 1896 |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 4:42:57 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gatling gun. If only there were vehicle mounted generators and electric motors in 1861! |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 9:20:03 AM EDT
[#40]
AR15/M16, of course.
Second the Aug, way ahead of its time. Still an amazing rifle today with just the addition of a 1913 rail on top, and QD sling mounts. Beretta 92. Still one of the smoothest factory handguns in the world, stupidly accurate and reliable. VP70. Could’ve outdone Glock if HK didn’t cock it up with a staple gun trigger, goofy ”shadow” front sight post, and the eurofag heel mag release. |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 9:57:45 AM EDT
[#41]
S&W 469
A handgun built and marketed for concealed carry in a time when concealed carry was outlawed in many states. |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 12:05:24 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The M1 carbine. SCHV is not a very well defined concept (for example if you're coming from .45-70, even .30-40 krag will seem pretty small and fast). But the M1 and M2 carbines served as the US militaries first real test bed for the idea, owing to the fact they were short, light, select fire and had DBM's Which leads back to the Winchester 1905, then the Winchester 1907. Semi auto, box fed, intermediate cartridge, made in....1905. |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 12:22:18 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All already been mentioned. The 1911 has to be the #1 though. More than 100 years later and it's still basically not been improved much by anyone. Except the modern 1911s are like the exact opposite of the original intent: most parts require fitting and tuning whereas the original had such loose tolerances to make parts interchangeable that the soldiers reportedly tried to pick up the pistol that rattled the most because it had the highest chance of operating reliably. But yes, having superior ergonomics at the time when ergonomics was not even a word is cool. |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 12:42:38 PM EDT
[#44]
1860 Henry, a quantum leap upon its introduction.
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Posted: 4/13/2023 12:44:18 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except the modern 1911s are like the exact opposite of the original intent: most parts require fitting and tuning whereas the original had such loose tolerances to make parts interchangeable that the soldiers reportedly tried to pick up the pistol that rattled the most because it had the highest chance of operating reliably. But yes, having superior ergonomics at the time when ergonomics was not even a word is cool. I know they've always had a finicky reputation, but I've never heard that about the early ones. Got a link or a book? Also, the tolerances thing continues to this day, most people that actually use their handguns for their lives in bad climates will have a smith open them up a little whether that's a Glock, HK or whatever. |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 1:19:36 PM EDT
[#46]
AR-15
Glock |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 1:31:56 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Chauchat did that first. It had its problems, but it pioneered non-traditional firearms manufacture. The french ones worked a lot better than the ones chambered in 30-06 for us forces |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 1:33:02 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes! https://article-imgs.scribdassets.com/3z5td55q686mizk8/images/fileZF9MABX4.jpg https://www.thearmorylife.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/article-a-revolutionary-weapon-the-turning-breech-ferguson-rifle-1.jpg Very forward thinking for its time! I’ve always found it fascinating. @HeckThomas Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ferguson rifle Yes! https://article-imgs.scribdassets.com/3z5td55q686mizk8/images/fileZF9MABX4.jpg https://www.thearmorylife.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/article-a-revolutionary-weapon-the-turning-breech-ferguson-rifle-1.jpg Very forward thinking for its time! I’ve always found it fascinating. @HeckThomas I'd love to get a reproduction of one of those. Very cool guns indeed |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 1:52:28 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.americanrifleman.org/media/y2mmthm2/h-k-p7.jpg?anchor=center&mode=crop&width=987&height=551&rnd=132768570615470000&quality=60 Since nobody has mentioned it - H&K P7 I agree but not for the squeeze cocking grip - instead I see it as trendsetting for being an ultra slim, fixed barrel, single stack 9mm designed for carry. It was about 30 years ahead of most of the new CC semis on the market today. |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 1:59:14 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/3097/B414F9C0-52B3-45B3-A3C3-117CB77EA241-2776468.jpg whitney wolverine The wolverine is cool. I think Olympic brought out a version some years ago, I can't remember it all maybe some reading later. |
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