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Posted: 6/8/2014 1:34:50 AM EDT
[#1]
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1. I read it. 2. What do you care? Are you taking this personally? I'll just answer this by posing one question that outlines the issue I take with your posts on this subject: Why do you feel the need to lie about how much a P30 magazine costs? |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 1:35:53 AM EDT
[#2]
Meh. I kinda like it,
Not for $700, though. And it is HK. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 1:38:45 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll just answer this by posing one question that outlines the issue I take with your posts on this subject: Why do you feel the need to lie about how much a P30 magazine costs? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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1. I read it. 2. What do you care? Are you taking this personally? I'll just answer this by posing one question that outlines the issue I take with your posts on this subject: Why do you feel the need to lie about how much a P30 magazine costs? My dealer is lying to me? Honestly, I don't pay much attention to the cost of the mags. or the guns for that matter. It always amused me that Hk was considered "premium" at a whopping $200-$300 more than Glock |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 1:41:40 AM EDT
[#4]
After you put a $160 barrel and $75 sights on your $500 Glock, all of a sudden it costs $735.
I've got a G19 and I love it, but it's silly to pretend that the $700 price point is too much. IF the H&K delivers better accuracy, then the price is pretty fair. If it's only got service pistol quality accuracy, then it's stupid. And that we won't know until people start shooting them. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 1:44:03 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After you put a $160 barrel and $75 sights on your $500 Glock, all of a sudden it costs $735. I've got a G19 and I love it, but it's silly to pretend that the $700 price point is too much. IF the H&K delivers better accuracy, then the price is pretty fair. If it's only got service pistol quality accuracy, then it's stupid. And that we won't know until people start shooting them. Does the Hk come with night sights? Real night sights. Not those gay glow in the dark paint sights they were putting on the P30's when I was shopping for one. But yeah, thats kind of my point. By the time you leave the store, what difference does it make if it's a few hundred dollars more or less. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 1:48:45 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My dealer is lying to me? Honestly, I don't pay much attention to the cost of the mags. or the guns for that matter. It always amused me that Hk was considered "premium" at a whopping $200-$300 more than Glock This is my point. You post something as a "fact" without caring at all whether or not it actually is a "fact" because it furthers your BS agenda of trolling an HK thread. So you say it is $65. The most expensive standard capacity one I saw in a quick search online was $45. The lowest price I saw in a quick search was around $35. Your dealer must be lying to you, or charging too much, or he has a shitty supplier. This is an easy to prove example of you putting "facts" in your posts that are not true and then you believing them to be credible and once called out on it saying "well I don't really pay attention to _____". If you don't pay attention enough to know, why not just keep your finger off of the reply button? |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 1:52:58 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is my point. You post something as a "fact" without caring at all whether or not it actually is a "fact" because it furthers your BS agenda of trolling an HK thread. So you say it is $65. The most expensive standard capacity one I saw in a quick search online was $45. The lowest price I saw in a quick search was around $35. Your dealer must be lying to you, or charging too much, or he has a shitty supplier. This is an easy to prove example of you putting "facts" in your posts that are not true and then you believing them to be credible and once called out on it saying "well I don't really pay attention to _____". If you don't pay attention enough to know, why not just keep your finger off of the reply button? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My dealer is lying to me? Honestly, I don't pay much attention to the cost of the mags. or the guns for that matter. It always amused me that Hk was considered "premium" at a whopping $200-$300 more than Glock This is my point. You post something as a "fact" without caring at all whether or not it actually is a "fact" because it furthers your BS agenda of trolling an HK thread. So you say it is $65. The most expensive standard capacity one I saw in a quick search online was $45. The lowest price I saw in a quick search was around $35. Your dealer must be lying to you, or charging too much, or he has a shitty supplier. This is an easy to prove example of you putting "facts" in your posts that are not true and then you believing them to be credible and once called out on it saying "well I don't really pay attention to _____". If you don't pay attention enough to know, why not just keep your finger off of the reply button? If you want only Hk fans to contribute, there is a forum for that. 
I have an opinion and a voice. Sorry I don't get on my knees and relax my jaw for the brand you are emotional about. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:00:07 AM EDT
[#8]
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If you want only Hk fans to contribute, there is a forum for that.
I have an opinion and a voice. Sorry I don't get on my knees and relax my jaw for the brand you are emotional about. It's one thing to have facts that support your opinion, and that is not the argument here. It's another thing to make up numbers that you try to pass off as "facts" to justify your already established position on the subject matter in an attempt to persuade others to share the same opinion. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:01:41 AM EDT
[#9]
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It's one thing to have facts that support your opinion, and that is not the argument here. It's another thing to make up numbers that you try to pass off as "facts" to justify your already established position on the subject matter in an attempt to persuade others to share the same opinion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you want only Hk fans to contribute, there is a forum for that.
I have an opinion and a voice. Sorry I don't get on my knees and relax my jaw for the brand you are emotional about. It's one thing to have facts that support your opinion, and that is not the argument here. It's another thing to make up numbers that you try to pass off as "facts" to justify your already established position on the subject matter in an attempt to persuade others to share the same opinion. 
I didn't make up anything. I'm not trying to persuade anyone. I'm relaying my thoughts on Hk products and Hk owners. You are reinforcing my thoughts on Hk owners quite well. Have a good night Bubba. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:01:47 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm comparing apples to an overcomplicated apple. Maybe if you are into fruit analogies, a watermelon to one of those weird watermelons in japan they grow in a box so it come out square. It's the mercedes benz of watermelons really. If buy regular watermelons you can't afford this one. Pure german engineering excellence in plastic.
http://www.whataboutwatermelon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/square-watermellons_1.png Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As a dealer, I'm actually pretty excited about this. Despite all the bitching and pissing and moaning, for no reason other than "We don't like anything we don't already masturbate to every night", this pistol is going to sell like hotcakes. Every day a huge percentage of the customers I see coming in the door are basically new to shooting. They either don't own a gun, or their only firearms are one or two older cheap pistols or rifles, and they know they want to do better. Typically I steer new shooters into a full sized 9mm, and with pricing being what it is, typically that means a Glock 17/19, M&P9, SR9, P250, or maybe even an FNS/FNX-9. Say what you will, but over the years I've sold thousands of handguns, and the one pistol that virtually every customer finds comfortable is the P30. It's basically unheard of for someone to pick it up and find it uncomfortable. It boggles my mind that H&K's ergonomics sucked so badly for so many years, and then they somehow managed to hit one out of the park. Except then the customer reads the price tag, and balks at spending $900 on their first pistol. If I can sell someone a $600 H&K 9mm that has the ergonomics of a P30, but only costs $100 more than a Glock, that's a huge possibility for sales. People will eat it up all day long. As it stands, the 17/19 and the M&P9 are the only polymer $500-ish pistols that I truly can count on to make any random customer happy. $600 is a reasonable price tag for something that has better features and just as popular of a brand name. Unless the trigger sucks massively for some bizarre reason, H&K will sell a shitload of these to the civilian market. Whether they can compete on agency pricing is a different matter altogether, but ultimately they've got to gain market acceptance first before agencies will really look at them. No it won't. It will sell to all of the HK nerds at first. Who will immediately proclaim it to be the bestest german swiss watch mercedes benz beluga caviar dom perignon of striker fired guns ever made. Everyone else will walk in and either say "who the fuck is HK? I'll take a S&W" or "cool a cheap HK, How much are spare mags? I need at least six. Oh $65, make that three mags, oh when do you think you'll have them in stock?" So basically, it will be P30 redux, but cheaper. Because that is what it is. A cheaper P30 for the untermenschen. Mags are like $50 and always in stock. Granted they are a bit more expensive than glock mags, but you're comparing apples to oranges there. I'm comparing apples to an overcomplicated apple. Maybe if you are into fruit analogies, a watermelon to one of those weird watermelons in japan they grow in a box so it come out square. It's the mercedes benz of watermelons really. If buy regular watermelons you can't afford this one. Pure german engineering excellence in plastic.
http://www.whataboutwatermelon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/square-watermellons_1.png It's apples to oranges because you're comparing a polymer mag to a steel mag. Of course there is going to be a price difference. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:03:07 AM EDT
[#11]
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most buyers buy whatever feels "best" in their hand while languidly waving it at the wall, and meets their pricing considerations. the P30 does indeed "feel" good, but that means shit while you are firing it. Most people don't know what Hk is. Which is kind of sad considering that their "brand" is pretty much all they have going for them. You forgot the part where they muzzlesweep a few people in the process 
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:03:11 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's apples to oranges because you're comparing a polymer mag to a steel mag. Of course there is going to be a price difference. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As a dealer, I'm actually pretty excited about this. Despite all the bitching and pissing and moaning, for no reason other than "We don't like anything we don't already masturbate to every night", this pistol is going to sell like hotcakes. Every day a huge percentage of the customers I see coming in the door are basically new to shooting. They either don't own a gun, or their only firearms are one or two older cheap pistols or rifles, and they know they want to do better. Typically I steer new shooters into a full sized 9mm, and with pricing being what it is, typically that means a Glock 17/19, M&P9, SR9, P250, or maybe even an FNS/FNX-9. Say what you will, but over the years I've sold thousands of handguns, and the one pistol that virtually every customer finds comfortable is the P30. It's basically unheard of for someone to pick it up and find it uncomfortable. It boggles my mind that H&K's ergonomics sucked so badly for so many years, and then they somehow managed to hit one out of the park. Except then the customer reads the price tag, and balks at spending $900 on their first pistol. If I can sell someone a $600 H&K 9mm that has the ergonomics of a P30, but only costs $100 more than a Glock, that's a huge possibility for sales. People will eat it up all day long. As it stands, the 17/19 and the M&P9 are the only polymer $500-ish pistols that I truly can count on to make any random customer happy. $600 is a reasonable price tag for something that has better features and just as popular of a brand name. Unless the trigger sucks massively for some bizarre reason, H&K will sell a shitload of these to the civilian market. Whether they can compete on agency pricing is a different matter altogether, but ultimately they've got to gain market acceptance first before agencies will really look at them. No it won't. It will sell to all of the HK nerds at first. Who will immediately proclaim it to be the bestest german swiss watch mercedes benz beluga caviar dom perignon of striker fired guns ever made. Everyone else will walk in and either say "who the fuck is HK? I'll take a S&W" or "cool a cheap HK, How much are spare mags? I need at least six. Oh $65, make that three mags, oh when do you think you'll have them in stock?" So basically, it will be P30 redux, but cheaper. Because that is what it is. A cheaper P30 for the untermenschen. Mags are like $50 and always in stock. Granted they are a bit more expensive than glock mags, but you're comparing apples to oranges there. I'm comparing apples to an overcomplicated apple. Maybe if you are into fruit analogies, a watermelon to one of those weird watermelons in japan they grow in a box so it come out square. It's the mercedes benz of watermelons really. If buy regular watermelons you can't afford this one. Pure german engineering excellence in plastic.
http://www.whataboutwatermelon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/square-watermellons_1.png It's apples to oranges because you're comparing a polymer mag to a steel mag. Of course there is going to be a price difference. Polymer with steel insert. Other steel mags cost as much as Glock mags. Glock mags are the best mags ever made. Hands down. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:04:45 AM EDT
[#13]
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You forgot the part where they muzzlesweep a few people in the process Quote HistoryQuoted:
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most buyers buy whatever feels "best" in their hand while languidly waving it at the wall, and meets their pricing considerations. the P30 does indeed "feel" good, but that means shit while you are firing it. Most people don't know what Hk is. Which is kind of sad considering that their "brand" is pretty much all they have going for them. You forgot the part where they muzzlesweep a few people in the process I don't really get bent out of shape about that at a gun store. It's a gun counter, not a range. But if you want to disagree and go down that rabbit hole, go for it. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:12:00 AM EDT
[#14]
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Glock mags are the best mags ever made. Hands down. In what way? That the sidewalls are too bulky, and they make the gun be bigger than it needs to be? Or maybe the part about where they hold fewer bullets than a good steel mag. Or maybe you mean the part about where the polymer will eventually crack off through use, leaving you with a worthless steel insert. Mec-Gar steel mags are the shit, they hold more rounds, they're cheaper, and they're available for every major handgun... you know, except Glocks. I like Glocks, but come on, the mags aren't the strong point. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:12:55 AM EDT
[#15]
This thread.
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:14:01 AM EDT
[#16]
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In what way? That the sidewalls are too bulky, and they make the gun be bigger than it needs to be? Or maybe the part about where they hold fewer bullets than a good steel mag. Or maybe you mean the part about where the polymer will eventually crack off through use, leaving you with a worthless steel insert. Mec-Gar steel mags are the shit, they hold more rounds, they're cheaper, and they're available for every major handgun... you know, except Glocks. I like Glocks, but come on, the mags aren't the strong point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Glock mags are the best mags ever made. Hands down. In what way? That the sidewalls are too bulky, and they make the gun be bigger than it needs to be? Or maybe the part about where they hold fewer bullets than a good steel mag. Or maybe you mean the part about where the polymer will eventually crack off through use, leaving you with a worthless steel insert. Mec-Gar steel mags are the shit, they hold more rounds, they're cheaper, and they're available for every major handgun... you know, except Glocks. I like Glocks, but come on, the mags aren't the strong point. Tough Cheap Reliable |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 4:13:08 AM EDT
[#17]
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most buyers buy whatever feels "best" in their hand while languidly waving it at the wall, and meets their pricing considerations. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Out of 100 customers, maybe 1 or 2 might actually know what the term "bore axis" refers to, and they probably don't give a damn in the first place. Figure out a way to make a Glock more ergonomic, however, and combine that with a brand name that has considerably higher regard amongst even novice shooters, and sell it at a price just barely a notch above a Glock or S&W, and you've got a serious contender for market share over the next few years. most buyers buy whatever feels "best" in their hand while languidly waving it at the wall, and meets their pricing considerations. It's apparently too much to expect more out of HK, or any other manufacturer for that matter. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 12:54:40 PM EDT
[#18]
I love watching Glock fan boys squirm!
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Posted: 6/8/2014 12:57:54 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In what way? That the sidewalls are too bulky, and they make the gun be bigger than it needs to be? Or maybe the part about where they hold fewer bullets than a good steel mag. Or maybe you mean the part about where the polymer will eventually crack off through use, leaving you with a worthless steel insert. Mec-Gar steel mags are the shit, they hold more rounds, they're cheaper, and they're available for every major handgun... you know, except Glocks. I like Glocks, but come on, the mags aren't the strong point. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Glock mags are the best mags ever made. Hands down. In what way? That the sidewalls are too bulky, and they make the gun be bigger than it needs to be? Or maybe the part about where they hold fewer bullets than a good steel mag. Or maybe you mean the part about where the polymer will eventually crack off through use, leaving you with a worthless steel insert. Mec-Gar steel mags are the shit, they hold more rounds, they're cheaper, and they're available for every major handgun... you know, except Glocks. I like Glocks, but come on, the mags aren't the strong point. Does Mec gar happen to make a 33 round 9mm mag? Glock does.
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Posted: 6/8/2014 1:05:53 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does the Hk come with night sights? Real night sights. Not those gay glow in the dark paint sights they were putting on the P30's when I was shopping for one. But yeah, that's kind of my point. By the time you leave the store, what difference does it make if it's a few hundred dollars more or less. Does HK have a first responder program? S&W is selling the M&P with real night sights for $399. After giving the trigger an encounter with my dremel, the HK is going to be hard to sell to me. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 1:24:54 PM EDT
[#21]
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I love watching Glock fan boys squirm! It is amusing. If the trigger on this HK is really that good, it's going to eat some market share. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 1:30:47 PM EDT
[#22]
I wish they would just develop a P9S with a hi-cap mag and be done with it.
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Posted: 6/8/2014 1:32:22 PM EDT
[#23]
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I agree on everything you've said. I can't wait to get some in stock. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As a dealer, I'm actually pretty excited about this. Despite all the bitching and pissing and moaning, for no reason other than "We don't like anything we don't already masturbate to every night", this pistol is going to sell like hotcakes. Every day a huge percentage of the customers I see coming in the door are basically new to shooting. They either don't own a gun, or their only firearms are one or two older cheap pistols or rifles, and they know they want to do better. Typically I steer new shooters into a full sized 9mm, and with pricing being what it is, typically that means a Glock 17/19, M&P9, SR9, P250, or maybe even an FNS/FNX-9. Say what you will, but over the years I've sold thousands of handguns, and the one pistol that virtually every customer finds comfortable is the P30. It's basically unheard of for someone to pick it up and find it uncomfortable. It boggles my mind that H&K's ergonomics sucked so badly for so many years, and then they somehow managed to hit one out of the park. Except then the customer reads the price tag, and balks at spending $900 on their first pistol. If I can sell someone a $600 H&K 9mm that has the ergonomics of a P30, but only costs $100 more than a Glock, that's a huge possibility for sales. People will eat it up all day long. As it stands, the 17/19 and the M&P9 are the only polymer $500-ish pistols that I truly can count on to make any random customer happy. $600 is a reasonable price tag for something that has better features and just as popular of a brand name. Unless the trigger sucks massively for some bizarre reason, H&K will sell a shitload of these to the civilian market. Whether they can compete on agency pricing is a different matter altogether, but ultimately they've got to gain market acceptance first before agencies will really look at them. No it won't. It will sell to all of the HK nerds at first. Who will immediately proclaim it to be the bestest german swiss watch mercedes benz beluga caviar dom perignon of striker fired guns ever made. Everyone else will walk in and either say "who the fuck is HK? I'll take a S&W" or "cool a cheap HK, How much are spare mags? I need at least six. Oh $65, make that three mags, oh when do you think you'll have them in stock?" So basically, it will be P30 redux, but cheaper. Because that is what it is. A cheaper P30 for the untermenschen. Do you know how many first-time buyers also want spare mags? Answer: none. They don't know what to do with the second one in the box anyways. You upsell them on cleaning supplies, a holster, range ammo, defensive ammo, ear and eye pro, and a range bag. Extra magazines aren't on the list for most gun owners outside of cases like the Shield, XDS, and 26/27 where the factory supplied magazines aren't extended for a full grip. Not an issue on a full-size pistol. I've sold literally millions of dollars of firearms at retail, personally, and I know what will sell. The internet fanboi contingent represents about 5% of sales, at best, for a full-service gun store. The guys pissing and moaning at HKPro aren't coming into my store to buy their next USP, they're ordering it from an online vendor or buying used off of a trade forum. Out of 100 customers, maybe 1 or 2 might actually know what the term "bore axis" refers to, and they probably don't give a damn in the first place. Figure out a way to make a Glock more ergonomic, however, and combine that with a brand name that has considerably higher regard amongst even novice shooters, and sell it at a price just barely a notch above a Glock or S&W, and you've got a serious contender for market share over the next few years. I agree on everything you've said. I can't wait to get some in stock. No kidding. He's dead on. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 1:57:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Does it accept P30 sights?
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Posted: 6/8/2014 1:58:48 PM EDT
[#25]
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It is amusing. If the trigger on this HK is really that good, it's going to eat some market share. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I love watching Glock fan boys squirm! It is amusing. If the trigger on this HK is really that good, it's going to eat some market share. HK has never done a good trigger |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 1:59:40 PM EDT
[#26]
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I love watching Glock fan boys squirm! Hey you guys are the ones on the defensive  q
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:02:03 PM EDT
[#27]
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HK has never done a good trigger Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I love watching Glock fan boys squirm! It is amusing. If the trigger on this HK is really that good, it's going to eat some market share. HK has never done a good trigger Clearly you've never shot a USP Expert or Elite, then. The USP match trigger is a damn fine trigger assembly. The only problem is that you never see them around. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:06:56 PM EDT
[#28]
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Clearly you've never shot a USP Expert or Elite, then. The USP match trigger is a damn fine trigger assembly. The only problem is that you never see them around. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I love watching Glock fan boys squirm! It is amusing. If the trigger on this HK is really that good, it's going to eat some market share. HK has never done a good trigger Clearly you've never shot a USP Expert or Elite, then. The USP match trigger is a damn fine trigger assembly. The only problem is that you never see them around. Have shot Most of my HK opinions come from a coven of collar-popping, VW driving preppies at my club that can't shoot. But sure can take awesome pictures of their awesome German engineered HK's. The march triggers are good. But lot hint special. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:08:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, they are definitely a strong point. The availability of cheap Korean mags makes your argument even weaker. I've had zero problems with any Glock mag, even the Korean mag. Does Mec gar happen to make a 33 round 9mm mag? Glock does. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Glock mags are the best mags ever made. Hands down. In what way? That the sidewalls are too bulky, and they make the gun be bigger than it needs to be? Or maybe the part about where they hold fewer bullets than a good steel mag. Or maybe you mean the part about where the polymer will eventually crack off through use, leaving you with a worthless steel insert. Mec-Gar steel mags are the shit, they hold more rounds, they're cheaper, and they're available for every major handgun... you know, except Glocks. I like Glocks, but come on, the mags aren't the strong point. Does Mec gar happen to make a 33 round 9mm mag? Glock does. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:08:35 PM EDT
[#30]
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Clearly you've never shot a USP Expert or Elite, then. The USP match trigger is a damn fine trigger assembly. The only problem is that you never see them around. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I love watching Glock fan boys squirm! It is amusing. If the trigger on this HK is really that good, it's going to eat some market share. HK has never done a good trigger Clearly you've never shot a USP Expert or Elite, then. The USP match trigger is a damn fine trigger assembly. The only problem is that you never see them around. The only bad thing about the match trigger, at least on my expert, as that it has a little bit of take-up. You have to stage it almost like a service AR trigger, but it has a very light, crisp break (I believe it is 3.8#) and the reset is phenomenal. I don't think I have ever shot a handgun with a shorter reset, it really makes shooting fast, and shooting accurately, extremely easy. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:09:55 PM EDT
[#31]
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HK has never done a good trigger Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I love watching Glock fan boys squirm! It is amusing. If the trigger on this HK is really that good, it's going to eat some market share. HK has never done a good trigger HK USP Elite is a good trigger. V3, or V9 with their match trigger kits is pretty good. I hope the VP9 sells well. Not sure why you're so intent on hating on it. Glocks are not the best pistol ever. And it's magazines aren't a marvel in engineering. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:19:48 PM EDT
[#32]
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No thanks. Glock already has this down. This. ANd Glock doesn't have a safety catch.
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:20:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Clearly you've never shot a USP Expert or Elite, then. The USP match trigger is a damn fine trigger assembly. The only problem is that you never see them around. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I love watching Glock fan boys squirm! It is amusing. If the trigger on this HK is really that good, it's going to eat some market share. HK has never done a good trigger Clearly you've never shot a USP Expert or Elite, then. The USP match trigger is a damn fine trigger assembly. The only problem is that you never see them around. No, its not. I like HK's. I like HK's more than I like Glocks, even. But HK's best trigger is inferior to nearly every other hammer fired pistol trigger on the market. Its worse than a Sig. Its worse than FN's triggers. Its definitely worse than CZ's, and nowhere near a 1911 trigger. Hell, even a BHP with the mag disconnnect removed is better than HK's match trigger. The USP "match" trigger blows donkeys. Its only a good trigger in comparison to the rest of the HK line. I bought a HK45CT with a V3 trigger in January that had a trigger so atrocious I was considering selling the gun. I had to swap to a LEM just to have something servicable. When I pay 1000 dollas for a pistol, I expect the trigger to break cleanly and the reset to be positive. I certainly dont want a false reset, either. Thats bullshit. The "match" trigger is a servicable trigger, nothing more. It should have been in every pistol they ever sold, instead of the bullshit I got in the last two HK's I bought. Even then, the box stock FNX USG/Tactical trigger is superior, as is the Sig SRT. I cant help but feel that HK's triggers were designed more for modularity and ease of conversion than they were for quality of pull, break and reset. I enjoy shooting HK's, but lets not be intellectually dishonest here. In fact, Ive never met anyone who shoots any kind of volume out of an HK that doesnt agree with me about the HK triggers. If you have ten thousand rounds through your HK and you think that trigger is better than the competition, Id like to shoot against you in a match. Because you suck. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:23:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, its not. I like HK's. I like HK's more than I like Glocks, even. But HK's best trigger is inferior to nearly every other hammer fired pistol trigger on the market. Its worse than a Sig. Its worse than FN's triggers. Its definitely worse than CZ's, and nowhere near a 1911 trigger. Hell, even a BHP with the mag disconnnect removed is better than HK's match trigger. The USP "match" trigger blows donkeys. Its only a good trigger in comparison to the rest of the HK line. I bought a HK45CT with a V3 trigger in January that had a trigger so atrocious I was considering selling the gun. I had to swap to a LEM just to have something servicable. When I pay 1000 dollas for a pistol, I expect the trigger to break cleanly and the reset to be positive. I certainly dont want a false reset, either. Thats bullshit. The "match" trigger is a servicable trigger, nothing more. The box stock FNX USG/Tactical trigger is superior, as is the Sig SRT. I cant help but feel that HK's triggers were designed more for modularity and ease of conversion than they were for quality of pull, break and reset. I enjoy shooting HK's, but lets not be intellectually dishonest here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I love watching Glock fan boys squirm! It is amusing. If the trigger on this HK is really that good, it's going to eat some market share. HK has never done a good trigger Clearly you've never shot a USP Expert or Elite, then. The USP match trigger is a damn fine trigger assembly. The only problem is that you never see them around. No, its not. I like HK's. I like HK's more than I like Glocks, even. But HK's best trigger is inferior to nearly every other hammer fired pistol trigger on the market. Its worse than a Sig. Its worse than FN's triggers. Its definitely worse than CZ's, and nowhere near a 1911 trigger. Hell, even a BHP with the mag disconnnect removed is better than HK's match trigger. The USP "match" trigger blows donkeys. Its only a good trigger in comparison to the rest of the HK line. I bought a HK45CT with a V3 trigger in January that had a trigger so atrocious I was considering selling the gun. I had to swap to a LEM just to have something servicable. When I pay 1000 dollas for a pistol, I expect the trigger to break cleanly and the reset to be positive. I certainly dont want a false reset, either. Thats bullshit. The "match" trigger is a servicable trigger, nothing more. The box stock FNX USG/Tactical trigger is superior, as is the Sig SRT. I cant help but feel that HK's triggers were designed more for modularity and ease of conversion than they were for quality of pull, break and reset. I enjoy shooting HK's, but lets not be intellectually dishonest here. The HK match trigger assembly I shot was pretty good. (Compared to my Beretta, which I compare everything to.) But for some reason, I do believe you. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:24:36 PM EDT
[#35]
I have a P30 and a USP. Both are fantastic pistols. Don't be one of those people who hate on a product just because you can't afford one.
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:29:42 PM EDT
[#36]
How is this going to be better than a PPQ?
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:35:50 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
HK has never done a good trigger Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I love watching Glock fan boys squirm! It is amusing. If the trigger on this HK is really that good, it's going to eat some market share. HK has never done a good trigger And neither has Glock. If the claims being made about the VP9's trigger are true, then the quality of the trigger will clearly be an advantage it has over Glock. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:40:36 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is this going to be better than a PPQ? It won't be... 
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:47:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No thanks. Glock already has this down. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:50:16 PM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:56:40 PM EDT
[#41]
If the street price is as "low" as the rumor mill says, I'll give it a try. Same thing with my SCAR and Tavor. I like guns and general and I get bored of ARs and Glocks sometimes. I don't get too delusional that everything that comes out is the latest and greatest or even actually "solved a problem". Like other stuff, if it sucks it shouldn't be hard to move it.
I'm iffy on HKs. I've had a few in the past and currently have a 45CT. For some reason they always end up getting sold though. It isn't that they "suck", but the price to awesome ratio kinda isn't there for me and something else I want usually comes along and the HKs end up on the chopping block. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:57:16 PM EDT
[#42]
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HK> Glock. And you know this, man! 
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Posted: 6/8/2014 3:08:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It won't be...
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How is this going to be better than a PPQ? It won't be...
Lol if the HK trigger is as good as they say, the PPQ will be irrelevant. HK is a brand name that sells a lot better than Walther, has a better grip, better magazine release, more available magazine supply, much better sight options, and a longer slide which I personally prefer. There are a lot of good handguns out there and I honestly like them all, however HK (finally) hit an absolute homerun with this gun. They are going to crush it and I sure as hell want one |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 4:31:53 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does HK have a first responder program? S&W is selling the M&P with real night sights for $399. After giving the trigger an encounter with my dremel, the HK is going to be hard to sell to me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does the Hk come with night sights? Real night sights. Not those gay glow in the dark paint sights they were putting on the P30's when I was shopping for one. But yeah, that's kind of my point. By the time you leave the store, what difference does it make if it's a few hundred dollars more or less. Does HK have a first responder program? S&W is selling the M&P with real night sights for $399. After giving the trigger an encounter with my dremel, the HK is going to be hard to sell to me. Link to the S&W trigger instructions? |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 4:49:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Google it.
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Posted: 6/8/2014 5:28:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, its not. I like HK's. I like HK's more than I like Glocks, even. But HK's best trigger is inferior to nearly every other hammer fired pistol trigger on the market. Its worse than a Sig. Its worse than FN's triggers. Its definitely worse than CZ's, and nowhere near a 1911 trigger. Hell, even a BHP with the mag disconnnect removed is better than HK's match trigger. The USP "match" trigger blows donkeys. Its only a good trigger in comparison to the rest of the HK line. I bought a HK45CT with a V3 trigger in January that had a trigger so atrocious I was considering selling the gun. I had to swap to a LEM just to have something servicable. When I pay 1000 dollas for a pistol, I expect the trigger to break cleanly and the reset to be positive. I certainly dont want a false reset, either. Thats bullshit. The "match" trigger is a servicable trigger, nothing more. It should have been in every pistol they ever sold, instead of the bullshit I got in the last two HK's I bought. Even then, the box stock FNX USG/Tactical trigger is superior, as is the Sig SRT. I cant help but feel that HK's triggers were designed more for modularity and ease of conversion than they were for quality of pull, break and reset. I enjoy shooting HK's, but lets not be intellectually dishonest here. In fact, Ive never met anyone who shoots any kind of volume out of an HK that doesnt agree with me about the HK triggers. If you have ten thousand rounds through your HK and you think that trigger is better than the competition, Id like to shoot against you in a match. Because you suck. I don't have every single H&K trigger variant possibility memorized, but are you sure that you're referring to the same trigger system? The match trigger pack is only available on USPs to the best of my knowledge (as shown here http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-USP-Match-Trigger-Conversion-Kit-p1039.htm#.U5TSMSgmwTA), and the HK45CT is essentially just a normal USP trigger pull. Out of all of the centerfire pistols currently available on the US market in the past few years, there's only a handful that I'd describe as being excellent. Outside of high-end 1911s, I'd consider the X5, P210, CZ Custom Shop, and the USP Match triggers to be amongst the best available in hammer-fired centerfire pistols. The FNH trigger is serviceable, but it's definitely nowhere near close to the USP Match trigger in quality - that's like comparing a Taurus PT1911 to a Wilson CQB. I've handled some CZs with out-fucking-standing DA and SA trigger packs, but only on guns that had gone through the CZ Custom Shop, or smiths like Cajun Gun Works. The Sig X5 series usually has some of the best triggers around, but they still tend to have more overtravel than I'd like. The P210 is another nice design, although they're virtually never seen in stores. Their standard SRT trigger (which seems to have some sub-variations in it as well) is serviceable, but it's nothing to write home about. I've shot 220-series pistols that had been cleaned up by a good smith, and have rendered the triggers into something truly great, but again that's not the norm. Straight-up factory FN, CZ, Sig, H&K, Ruger, Taurus, and Walther hammer-fired pistols all have mediocre triggers in their standard models, plain and simple. None of them have the quality of even a mid-grade 1911 SA pull. Striker-fired designs out there tend to be slightly worse in shootability, although the prevalence of aftermarket trigger packs for Glocks and M&Ps levels the playing field to a significant degree. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 6:20:19 PM EDT
[#47]
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Lol if the HK trigger is as good as they say, the PPQ will be irrelevant. HK is a brand name that sells a lot better than Walther,(maybe? show me some sales figures) PPQ=$535 HK=$650-700?) has a better grip(debatable), better magazine release( M1 has the same release), more available magazine supply( I can find any Walther mag I want), much better sight options,(That is true for HK, I swapped the PPQ sights for trijicons in about 10 min.) and a longer slide which I personally prefer. There are a lot of good handguns out there and I honestly like them all, however HK (finally) hit an absolute homerun with this gun. They are going to crush it and I sure as hell want one Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How is this going to be better than a PPQ? It won't be...
Lol if the HK trigger is as good as they say, the PPQ will be irrelevant. HK is a brand name that sells a lot better than Walther,(maybe? show me some sales figures) PPQ=$535 HK=$650-700?) has a better grip(debatable), better magazine release( M1 has the same release), more available magazine supply( I can find any Walther mag I want), much better sight options,(That is true for HK, I swapped the PPQ sights for trijicons in about 10 min.) and a longer slide which I personally prefer. There are a lot of good handguns out there and I honestly like them all, however HK (finally) hit an absolute homerun with this gun. They are going to crush it and I sure as hell want one Like I said, we'll see after the reviews come out. I'm betting on the PPQ, I have nothing against the fan boy clubs, it's only my opinion of course. |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 6:27:02 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL Like I said, we'll see after the reviews come out. I'm betting on the PPQ, I have nothing against the fan boy clubs, it's only my opinion of course. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How is this going to be better than a PPQ? It won't be...
Lol if the HK trigger is as good as they say, the PPQ will be irrelevant. HK is a brand name that sells a lot better than Walther,(maybe? show me some sales figures) PPQ=$535 HK=$650-700?) has a better grip(debatable), better magazine release( M1 has the same release), more available magazine supply( I can find any Walther mag I want), much better sight options,(That is true for HK, I swapped the PPQ sights for trijicons in about 10 min.) and a longer slide which I personally prefer. There are a lot of good handguns out there and I honestly like them all, however HK (finally) hit an absolute homerun with this gun. They are going to crush it and I sure as hell want one Like I said, we'll see after the reviews come out. I'm betting on the PPQ, I have nothing against the fan boy clubs, it's only my opinion of course. FWIW, the HK mag release is pretty different from the Walther M1. The Walther sits really far forward on the trigger guard and is pretty thin. The mags are harder to find locally for the Walther because it's a Walther product as well as the M1 and M2 mags are different. Because HK uses the same mags for the P30 series, the price generally is cheaper than the Walther mags and they are easier to find. The grip is similar to the Walther but has the additional side panel options so there isn't really much debate to be made. With advertised pricing of $599 already, it has nothing to do with fan clubs. HK hit a grandslam |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 6:59:09 PM EDT
[#49]
Oh look the Strike One finally showed up |
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Posted: 6/8/2014 7:53:32 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And neither has Glock. If the claims being made about the VP9's trigger are true, then the quality of the trigger will clearly be an advantage it has over Glock. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I love watching Glock fan boys squirm! It is amusing. If the trigger on this HK is really that good, it's going to eat some market share. HK has never done a good trigger And neither has Glock. If the claims being made about the VP9's trigger are true, then the quality of the trigger will clearly be an advantage it has over Glock. But it is consistent 
Why are we talking about target guns anyways? |
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