User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 8:01:36 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: B-32 Dominator B-32 served in WWII - conducted the last bombing mission of the war in fact. No shit? I never knew that. here B32 on YouTube |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 8:01:40 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The R4 also saw service. Over a hundred were fielded. https://live.staticflickr.com/863/41332119671_c77ff0da46_z.jpg ETA: The R5 was delivered to the Army while the war was still going on but none saw combat service until Korea as far as I can find. https://live.staticflickr.com/794/26460965597_82e36d62ca_z.jpg (Army Aviation Museum, Fort Rucker pics) My grandfather was in the invasion of Normandy, and the Battle of the Bulge. He told me he had seen helicopters fly during his time in Europe, he left in early 46. I always assumed that maybe his memory was a little off and maybe he was thinking of later years. Ill be damned if he wasn't right. That design is exactly how he described it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 8:10:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is principly a long range reconn airplane. Quote HistoryQuoted: That is principly a long range reconn airplane. Built to be a B-29 escort |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 8:26:48 PM EDT
[#4]
I hate to be a spoil sport but pretty sure we wouldnt really need more than P51s and F4Us.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 8:41:51 PM EDT
[#5]
The same ones that fought in the Korean War
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 8:57:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The same ones that fought in the Korean War Does this scenario diverge from our timeline before or after Germany surrendered? Does this war go to '46 because the Japanese in didn't surrender or because the Germans didn't? If the Germans don't lose first, we don't get all that research, and aircraft development goes a different direction. I think the planes would have looked a lot different by the time we got to Korea. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 9:01:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Were there any early cruise missiles in the works ? I suspect of the war kept going would have seen some of those come around earlier as well Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Many in-progress aircraft development projects were delayed by the end of the war. IF the US had maintained wartime levels of aircraft development/production through 1946, some additional airframes that may have seen action included: B-35 'Flying Wing" B-36 Bomber , FJ1 Fury B-45 I suspect of the war kept going would have seen some of those come around earlier as well The V1 and variants were cruise missiles. Both the Royal Navy and the US Navy were working on Cruise Missile designs. The Luftwaffle and the Japanese had also fielded "Glide Bombs" with primitive guidance systems, and Joe Kennedy Jr was killed in an experiment using war-weary heavy bombers as cruise missiles. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 9:09:05 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Had WWII gone into 1946 what aircraft would've seen use? more Foo Fighters |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 9:13:56 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The V1 and variants were cruise missiles. Both the Royal Navy and the US Navy were working on Cruise Missile designs. The Luftwaffle and the Japanese had also fielded "Glide Bombs" with primitive guidance systems, and Joe Kennedy Jr was killed in an experiment using war-weary heavy bombers as cruise missiles. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Many in-progress aircraft development projects were delayed by the end of the war. IF the US had maintained wartime levels of aircraft development/production through 1946, some additional airframes that may have seen action included: B-35 'Flying Wing" B-36 Bomber , FJ1 Fury B-45 I suspect of the war kept going would have seen some of those come around earlier as well The V1 and variants were cruise missiles. Both the Royal Navy and the US Navy were working on Cruise Missile designs. The Luftwaffle and the Japanese had also fielded "Glide Bombs" with primitive guidance systems, and Joe Kennedy Jr was killed in an experiment using war-weary heavy bombers as cruise missiles. TBM drone control ship with retractable antenna array extended. Could control 4 drones simultaneously at 7 miles, operator had a small TV screen, used a joystick to fly them and a telephone dial to send commands:   TDN assault drone launches from USS Sable 1942; 104 built, tested successfully but considered too expensive as conventional aircraft started getting results, expended as target drones or used as manned utility aircraft:   Interstate TDR assault drone. Note the early war meatball roundel and tail stripes. 189 built, 50 expended in combat, 31 hits on Japanese targets. Also cancelled because they were expensive and plagued by technical problems:  Prototype with manned test cockpit, graceful semi-recessed torpedo bay, and Wright radials instead of Lycomings:    Fairing removed exposing nose camera:  A "ferrying cockpit" could be added for a human pilot:   TDR-1 Assault Drone Tests July 30, 1944 by STAG-One in the South Pacific  U.S. NAVY WWII TDR-1 DRONE OPERATIONAL TESTS IN SOUTH PACIFIC 30772  U.S. NAVY TDN-1 RADIO CONTROLLED WORLD WAR II DRONES 30792 |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 9:36:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: B-32 Dominator Not likely. It was built as a backup to the B-29, which was having teething problems, but once those got sorted out, there was no need for the B-32. A small number were produced, and were used in the Pacific very late in the war, but the success of the B-29 meant that there was no need to build any more, even if the war had gone on. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 9:40:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Japs had a couple of these flying before the war ended. J7W1 Shinden http://www.hyperscale.com/galleries/2002/images/shundenrl_5.jpg https://kikakuya.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/6035.jpg https://ids.si.edu/ids/deliveryService?id=https://airandspace.si.edu/webimages/collections/full/19600333000a.JPG&max=900 Smithsonian-owned relic: https://ids.si.edu/ids/deliveryService?id=NASM-A19600333000-NASM2019-01675&max=900 They actually only completed two, and only one flew for a total of 45 minutes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 9:46:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryThe HE-162 saw combat before the end of the war. It was actually a pretty capable plane given how quickly it was designed and put into production. IIRC it was the first operational military fighter jet with an ejection seat. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 9:47:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope, the only reason there is a MiG-9 is the Russians were allowed access to Messerschmidt blue prints and a prototype of the Messerschmidt PE1101 1. PE-1101 2. HO-229 3. TA152 4. DO-335 Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope, the only reason there is a MiG-9 is the Russians were allowed access to Messerschmidt blue prints and a prototype of the Messerschmidt PE1101 1. PE-1101 2. HO-229 3. TA152 4. DO-335 Definitely, the Ta 152 and the DO-335. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 9:49:39 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The US had purpose built television guided attack drones in testing before the war. By mid-war they were being used against enemy targets in small quantities, but they were somewhat glitchy and once it was no longer suicidal to fight Japanese Zeros it was simply cheaper to train more pilots and put them in conventional planes. TBM drone control ship with retractable antenna array extended. Could control 4 drones simultaneously at 7 miles, operator had a small TV screen, used a joystick to fly them and a telephone dial to send commands:https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/gbDgKL9JRsGfCEnBEBN-KwrTl50UdkJagiwVoQ-bPaR1EhIUsmn1F_zKTZ_tNGdehnNikKOiHyBWgXAbSqkeUrieLY2vFb6Isgmo3BXc0oI5KqpVyDS7PT_61f1mEE0yLcEJXqxGOnNjLXi4gsvwOMIry9ERjBvqSQ https://geographicalimaginations.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/tdr-1-and-control-aircraft-from-aviation-history.png TDN assault drone launches from USS Sable 1942; 104 built, tested successfully but considered too expensive as conventional aircraft started getting results, expended as target drones or used as manned utility aircraft: http://www.navaldrones.com/images/Sable-TDN-1.jpg https://www.maritime-executive.com/media/images/article/Photos/Navy_Govt_CoastGuard/tdn1-drone-off-traverse-city.db6b1d.jpg Interstate TDR assault drone. Note the early war meatball roundel and tail stripes. 189 built, 50 expended in combat, 31 hits on Japanese targets. Also cancelled because they were expensive and plagued by technical problems: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Interstate_TDR-1.jpg Prototype with manned test cockpit, graceful semi-recessed torpedo bay, and Wright radials instead of Lycomings: https://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii120/Duggy009/Duggy009049/TD3R-1.jpg https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/data/attachments/23/23744-e7dadf848f37a76fa7ecb87f9b6c6892.jpg http://evanflys.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/twcruz_1_06.15791919.jpg Fairing removed exposing nose camera: http://evanflys.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/p2.15785723.jpg A "ferrying cockpit" could be added for a human pilot: http://evanflys.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/interstate_tdr-1_2.15785625.jpg  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CboWEL4wbEU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwS669Ipgwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEnHsYvBaxkThis post is simply amazing. I just learned about this in 2018 when I taught a class in rocketry, and wanted to teach about guided missiles and drones. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 9:55:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: B-32 Dominator My grandpa was a tail gunner on B-24’s in the pacific. He was transitioning to the B-32 when the war ended. He was on a B-32 over Japan when they were jumped by an assortment of Japanese fighters. It was 7 days after the cease-fire, and I believe the last official air combat of World War II. I believe at least one crew member was KIA. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 9:58:51 PM EDT
[#16]
German stealth fighter: the HO-229 (mentioned above)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_Ho_229 https://www.flying-tigers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Horten-Ho-229-b.png 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 10:01:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Built to be a B-29 escort Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That is principly a long range reconn airplane. Built to be a B-29 escort I know. The F-82 was a long range airplane. I don't believe it could have been a successful fighter, although better than nothing as a bomber escort. There used to be an Interstate target drone with a cockpit circulating through the used airplane market. I wonder if it was finally captured by a collector. - |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 10:01:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Sometime in the last 10 years, they tested a surviving HO-229 prototype.
The thing actually had functioning stealth properties. Considering the crude state of radar in 1945, the stealth of this would have probably worked well. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 10:06:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Germany and Japan would still not have had any new planes, they could not even produce any with the current bombing that was under way. Things would have gotten worse with B-32s then B-36s as well as 29s in Europe and Japan.
The first B-36 flew in '44 I think. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 10:15:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The HE-162 saw combat before the end of the war. It was actually a pretty capable plane given how quickly it was designed and put into production. IIRC it was the first operational military fighter jet with an ejection seat. Except for the shitty plywood glue that they had to use because of the supply issues brought on by bombing and losing access to the needed materials. If I win the powerball I will pay someone to build a replica using modern materials. I think it would be far easier to do than those repro ME 262's. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 10:26:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sometime in the last 10 years, they tested a surviving HO-229 prototype. The thing actually had functioning stealth properties. Considering the crude state of radar in 1945, the stealth of this would have probably worked well. Its stealth properties have been exagerated-it had about 80 percent of the RCS of an ME-109. It was intended to be used as an interceptor, where RCS wasn't a consideration. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 10:29:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The HE-162 saw combat before the end of the war. It was actually a pretty capable plane given how quickly it was designed and put into production. IIRC it was the first operational military fighter jet with an ejection seat. It did see combat, just about as much as the Ta-152 variants. There were airfields full of them, and no pilots to fly them. Pretty cool design, and for late war pretty amazing they manufactured them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 10:32:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except for the shitty plywood glue that they had to use because of the supply issues brought on by bombing and losing access to the needed materials. If I win the powerball I will pay someone to build a replica using modern materials. I think it would be far easier to do than those repro ME 262's. Why go repro, do the real deal. https://www.flightjournal.com/museumss-262-gets-colors/#visitor_pref_pop |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 10:33:02 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It did see combat, just about as much as the Ta-152 variants. There were airfields full of them, and no pilots to fly them. Pretty cool design, and for late war pretty amazing they manufactured them. Yeah - I think they completed something like 300 of them by the end of the war, with 600 more under construction. Germany ran out of pilots, not planes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2020 10:51:21 PM EDT
[#25]
We had so many aircraft coming out of manufacturing facilities in 1945 that by the end of the year there were over 35,000 aircraft sitting around in the U.S. alone. A number of them were brand new, flown from the factory to just to another airfield to be scrapped. Aircraft over seas were pushed off the sides of carriers, or buried, scrapped, sold, etc.. Of those 35,000 stateside, nearly 24,000 of them were melted down into aluminum ingots during 1946. Presumably, if the war had continued, most of those would have been overseas in 46'.
A number of aircraft were sold at auction. P-39s. P-63s, P-40s, P-38s, F4Us could be bought for $1000-1250. Roughly $13,000 in todays $$. P-51s $3500. What's the saying, "Quantity has a quality all it's own". Not that our stuff was substandard, but what we did have we had a tremendous amount of. For some perspective though on what a $1000 was worth in the 40s. O-3, or Captain pay was only $200 a month. A General made $500. Most all enlisted under $100. A $1000 was a lot of money. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2020 1:31:23 AM EDT
[#26]
I think for the most part, things would have played out pretty much as they did plane wise. It would have been accelerated though on out part, as well as the Brits. We probably would have advanced current prop aircraft of the time, and probably had our jet advances retarded some.
I really don't think the Germans would have offered up anything really new that wasn't already built, or in later design phases. They were hard pressed at the end to field aircraft at all, as the war took it's toll on both planes and pilots. They probably would have invested time and design into rockets, and other land type fighting vehicles. The Germans were very good at creating highly technological weapons that were vastly advanced over some of the stuff we had, but they ping ponged all over the board and never stuck with what would work. It also hurt them greatly, that they didn't have the resources we did. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2020 9:33:06 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Off the top of my head I can think of the following: AD Skyraider F7F Tigercat F8F Bearcat P-80 Shooting Star P82 Twin Mustang B-29D (B-50) Superfortress This very same idea was covered by old PC flight sim games way back in the day.  
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2020 9:59:26 AM EDT
[#28]
I dont think europe would have been a player in a later running war. That would have ended "on time" so to speak.
The issue would be japan. Say the atom bombs weren't used, or the generals succeeded in their coup. Thhe invasion of japan doesn't work or is slow going. Or doesn't happen at all because of the projected cost, so we starve tem out. Then we are talking long range ships, depending on what we capture, and what kind of effect the typhoon has on our supply lines. I can't remember if we we had territory where our land based fighters had the range to reach japan (okinawa?) Invasion of japan would need lots of air to ground I imagine. If we had close enough airbases, our standard in production aircraft would have worked. Either case, it would be a great testing ground for new designs. We might also send troops to china for occupation, and keep russians from taking more territory. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2020 10:10:58 AM EDT
[#29]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2020 10:29:27 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryThey were used in Burma. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2020 11:04:19 AM EDT
[#31]
I remember in the 70s and 80s PBS would show GI Diaries. We would watch it all the time with my dad. He was a Marine in WW2 in the Pacific. In a brief glimpse, on one of the episodes a P-80 flew over. He would laugh and say there weren’t jets in WW2 used by the Americans. There were in fact P-80s used in Europe in 1945. He just didn’t know about them even 30 years later.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2020 11:13:23 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: B-29 carrying nukes |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2020 2:58:11 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We had so many aircraft coming out of manufacturing facilities in 1945 that by the end of the year there were over 35,000 aircraft sitting around in the U.S. alone. A number of them were brand new, flown from the factory to just to another airfield to be scrapped. Aircraft over seas were pushed off the sides of carriers, or buried, scrapped, sold, etc.. Of those 35,000 stateside, nearly 24,000 of them were melted down into aluminum ingots during 1946. Presumably, if the war had continued, most of those would have been overseas in 46'. A number of aircraft were sold at auction. P-39s. P-63s, P-40s, P-38s, F4Us could be bought for $1000-1250. Roughly $13,000 in todays $$. P-51s $3500. What's the saying, "Quantity has a quality all it's own". Not that our stuff was substandard, but what we did have we had a tremendous amount of. For some perspective though on what a $1000 was worth in the 40s. O-3, or Captain pay was only $200 a month. A General made $500. Most all enlisted under $100. A $1000 was a lot of money. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2020 3:08:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A fighter plane for approximately 1-1.5 years salary doesn't seem like a bad deal Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We had so many aircraft coming out of manufacturing facilities in 1945 that by the end of the year there were over 35,000 aircraft sitting around in the U.S. alone. A number of them were brand new, flown from the factory to just to another airfield to be scrapped. Aircraft over seas were pushed off the sides of carriers, or buried, scrapped, sold, etc.. Of those 35,000 stateside, nearly 24,000 of them were melted down into aluminum ingots during 1946. Presumably, if the war had continued, most of those would have been overseas in 46'. A number of aircraft were sold at auction. P-39s. P-63s, P-40s, P-38s, F4Us could be bought for $1000-1250. Roughly $13,000 in todays $$. P-51s $3500. What's the saying, "Quantity has a quality all it's own". Not that our stuff was substandard, but what we did have we had a tremendous amount of. For some perspective though on what a $1000 was worth in the 40s. O-3, or Captain pay was only $200 a month. A General made $500. Most all enlisted under $100. A $1000 was a lot of money. The smart guys bought new engines in cans and props and controls. Anyone buying an airplane should have bought a big barn full to keep one flying. Plus all the special equipment for the type. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
