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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:16:57 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Where’s the picture of the guy holding a bloody M9 after a very close range gunfight in Iraq? It's the least effective weapon of all of them and the army wants to give one to everybody. Sounds like something the army would do. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:17:25 AM EDT
[#2]
If I’m fighting with a pistol shit went seriously wrong.
That said I would also be very thankful I had it. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:26:47 AM EDT
[#3]
Much like your primary weapon, it's not needed until you have to use it.
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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:31:25 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Makes perfect sense for artillery. Sometimes you're hands are full with heavy stuff. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:34:44 AM EDT
[#5]
There's a reason the U.S. doesn't hardly issue pistols except to the higher ranks.
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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:36:02 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That fucking irritated the fuck out of me. Medics and shit were having their issued M9s taken away from them by Officers and such. Just so they could look cool, bad ass, operator as fuck, when they went to the Chow Hall. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:36:07 AM EDT
[#7]
Not sure if it's something that's tracked, but I wonder which has killed more combatants since 1950, pistol or bayonet?
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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:38:32 AM EDT
[#8]
I deployed to Iraq in 2010 and we had enough m9 s for most of us to dual carry. The mission was convoy security. The idea was that a pistol would be easily accessible. The command decided not to go that route. The m4 fulfilled our needs adequately. However our contact with adversaries was minimal. I definitely see a role for the pistol in war but the mission, terrain etc.. will dictate the value of carrying one. I think the weight of a pistol and a few mags is inconsequential in vehicle mounted units
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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:42:38 AM EDT
[#9]
They’re not really necessary until the moment they are. I would always carry mine.
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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:45:41 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was what I came to post. I felt sorry for the guys carrying 240/249's to chow. I was very glad I was issued a sidearm when deployed. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:45:51 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure if it's something that's tracked, but I wonder which has killed more combatants since 1950, pistol or bayonet? |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:48:01 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where’s the picture of the guy holding a bloody M9 after a very close range gunfight in Iraq? 
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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:48:50 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Saved for when I run into someone who says that taking the finger out of the trigger guard is too hard to remember to do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Saved for when I run into someone who says that taking the finger out of the trigger guard is too hard to remember to do.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:51:26 AM EDT
[#14]
What kind of war?
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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:57:33 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When the only thing you have is a pistol because there is no room in the cockpit, it becomes very necessary. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:57:42 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Almost mandatory for the DFAC? 
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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:58:11 AM EDT
[#17]
I would think in a heavy urban environment it may come in handy?
M4 malfunctions, M4 is shot and breaks, etc..In an urban environment, I would think a pistol would have some value at this point - thoughts? |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 11:58:48 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm artillery, for the love of big tits do not take away my M4 and stick me with a pistol How do y'all keep rifles handy while actually working the artillery? Slung? Stashed somewhere near the gun? Fuckit, that's what security is for? I ask because I've been watching C&Rsenal videos about the WWI use of carbines and the development of the LP-08 Luger. At the time, the crews generally preferred the 8-shot semiautomatic pistol in a holster/detachable stock over a bolt gun that had to be stashed in scabbards on the guns or caissons. I'm sure the volume of fire differential made a big impact in that decision, but I wonder how much of a pain in the ass it is to keep carbines handy in today's artillery. It's not as though artillery crews are under regular threat of cavalry attack these days, anyway (afaik). During movements, etc, I can absolutely see why an M-4 would be preferable over a handgun. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:00:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Our left seaters shot a bunch of bad guys with M4s, and id bet our seating arrangement was tighter than most. @Snakedriver |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:08:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always wondered about that. I have heard the explanation that people would only really be shot when the leaders/terrorists brought out the handgun but why? Did the badguy leaders never carry rifles? Or is it a cultural thing to execute people with handguns only? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In Afghanistan it'll make the locals back off faster than an M4.  |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:12:44 PM EDT
[#21]
DAT here from the mid-80's, we were not issued any rifles at all. Grease guns inside the tank, and carried a .45 in a shoulder holster.
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:14:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dumb question, so I apologize. How do y'all keep rifles handy while actually working the artillery? Slung? Stashed somewhere near the gun? Fuckit, that's what security is for? I ask because I've been watching C&Rsenal videos about the WWI use of carbines and the development of the LP-08 Luger. At the time, the crews generally preferred the 8-shot semiautomatic pistol in a holster/detachable stock over a bolt gun that had to be stashed in scabbards on the guns or caissons. I'm sure the volume of fire differential made a big impact in that decision, but I wonder how much of a pain in the ass it is to keep carbines handy in today's artillery. It's not as though artillery crews are under regular threat of cavalry attack these days, anyway (afaik). During movements, etc, I can absolutely see why an M-4 would be preferable over a handgun. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:20:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What kind of war? |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:22:15 PM EDT
[#24]
When you are trying to play bagpipes charging an enemy position a pistol would be handier than an Enfield
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:24:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Situational. Most will never use one.
Doing secret squirrel stuff? A suppressed handgun is very, very quiet. For CQB, it's nice to have the option, but unlikely to be used. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:29:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Combat pistols are completely unnecessary...right up until they become necessary.
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:34:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, and wasn't there a Marine MOH winner who killed a bunch of Germans with a 1911? Besides Alvin York? |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:34:47 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, and wasn't there a Marine MOH winner who killed a bunch of Germans with a 1911? Besides Alvin York? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You should ask this guy . . . https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/16397/Alvin_C_York_Painting-1-e1507610598131_jpg-735154.JPG |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:36:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A guy at the gun store was a master chief in 4th SF group back at Ft. Jackson. He carried a Desert Eagle over there. had to use it a few times when his Enfield 303 ran dry. They let him keep the pistol when he got out along with a set of NVGs. But he doesn't like to talk about it.   
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:36:35 PM EDT
[#30]
During our next war the suppressed .22 will be quite valuable
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:37:42 PM EDT
[#31]
So POG NCOs don't have to carry a rifle.
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:39:14 PM EDT
[#32]
Having a secondary weapon is not a bad thing.
And they come in handy, because some populations fear pistols far more than rifles or machine guns. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:43:59 PM EDT
[#33]
I would have liked to have had one searching people coming onto base, the M4 was pretty unwieldy around the metal detectors.
Outside special circumstances like that, I wouldn't lug around a pistol and ammo for it if given the choice. Even for CQB I'd take a rifle over a pistol now, though a 10.5" upper would be ideal. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:45:16 PM EDT
[#34]
As I understand it youre meant to fight to a rifle with a pistol in that scenario
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:45:47 PM EDT
[#35]
WW-1 trench raids by the French were usually carried out by men with two pistols in the lead. Though only a .32 French Contract Savage M1907 was very popular for the task due to it's 10 round capacity.
Like this one in my collection that was shipped to France in 1915. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:49:00 PM EDT
[#36]
Very. It made it so we didn't have to carry around our fucking muskets 24/7 while on base. Just strap on the leg hoslter and go to the chow hall.
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:49:31 PM EDT
[#37]
If you have something that's more effective, a pistol is unnecessary.
If that's all you have, it can be a life saver. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:50:29 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tending the wounded....manning a radio....a pistol backup is good to have. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:50:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Love gun store stories. LOL Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A guy at the gun store was a master chief in 4th SF group back at Ft. Jackson. He carried a Desert Eagle over there. had to use it a few times when his Enfield 303 ran dry. They let him keep the pistol when he got out along with a set of NVGs. But he doesn't like to talk about it. 
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:52:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That fucking irritated the fuck out of me. Medics and shit were having their issued M9s taken away from them by Officers and such. Just so they could look cool, bad ass, operator as fuck, when they went to the Chow Hall. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They arent used for more then carrying a weapon to the chow hall. In Iraq by the time 2006 rolled around, almost everyone and their mom had pistols, at least in Baghdad. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 12:55:50 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WW-1 trench raids by the French were usually carried out by men with two pistols in the lead. Though only a .32 French Contract Savage M1907 was very popular for the task due to it's 10 round capacity. Like this one in my collection that was shipped to France in 1915. https://forums.gunboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=487439&d=1322956575 |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 1:38:13 PM EDT
[#42]
Everyone has a opinion of course. But I want to hear a story of someone who used a pistol in combat instead of finding a rifle. Never heard of a rifle getting shot, a rifle malfunctioning, clearing rooms, or security in actual combat(rounds being fired not POG scenario) where a pistol was drawn and used. In current times I may add not past times. In real life its more common to drop to a knee or find cover and fix a malfunction then pull a pistol against a rifle or MG.
Alot of training outside the military is about defense which is different obviously. In the military (combat jobs) its about close with and destory, to do that it isnt with a backup pistol. 100rnds of 5.56 weighs 3.5lbs I believe. Even M67 weighs 14oz. If it came down to using a pistol becuase of rifle problems in current times, there has to be enough dead people around to grab a rifle that isnt yours. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 1:41:52 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everyone has a opinion of course. But I want to hear a story of someone who used a pistol in combat instead of finding a rifle. Never heard of a rifle getting shot, a rifle malfunctioning, clearing rooms, or security in actual combat(rounds being fired not POG scenario) where a pistol was drawn and used. In current times I may add not past times. In training its more common to drop to a knee or find cover and fix a malfunction then pull a pistol against a rifle or MG. Alot of training outside the military is about defense which is different obviously. In the military (combat jobs) its about close with and destory, to do that it isnt with a backup pistol. 100rnds of 5.56 weighs 3.5lbs I believe. Even M67 weighs 14oz. If it came down to using a pistol becuase of rifle problems in current times, there has to be enough dead people around to grab a rifle that isnt yours. Looking around for a rifle is waste of time in such scenarios. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 1:47:05 PM EDT
[#44]
Compact PDW >>>>> Pistol
In US military history, the M1 Carbine is an example of a great little blaster that anyone can carry without hindering their performance, while still having an effective cartridge that kills. Almost every soldier in the Big Green Pickle Machine that currently is issued a sidearm should really have a compact PDW in a bottle-necked PDW cartridge. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 1:47:12 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are in an actual fight, and your rifle malfunctions, the quickest and smartest solution is to immediately draw your pistol and continue firing. This is how we train. Looking around for a rifle is waste of time in such scenarios. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 1:59:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Pistols suck at everything but being concealable and portable.
I'd rather have a cleaning kit, grenades/explosives, or more ammo for my Rifle. If I have a LMG, I'd rather have more ammo and spare barrels. If I'm a non-Grunt, I'd rather have a PDW of some sort (P90/MP7/Other SMG). But here in the US, different tools for different jobs, and I'd rather have a pistol. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 2:10:30 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
During our next war the suppressed .22 will be quite valuable |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 2:17:30 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are in an actual fight, and your rifle malfunctions, the quickest and smartest solution is to immediately draw your pistol and continue firing. This is how we train. Looking around for a rifle is waste of time in such scenarios. In the grand scheme of warfighting, which is driven primarily by logistics anyway, you could probably eliminate the handgun from the US military inventory and not have a noticeable effect on fighting performance. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 2:18:49 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Afghan? In Iraq by the time 2006 rolled around, almost everyone and their mom had pistols, at least in Baghdad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They arent used for more then carrying a weapon to the chow hall. In Iraq by the time 2006 rolled around, almost everyone and their mom had pistols, at least in Baghdad. |
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Posted: 11/11/2018 2:25:13 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Given the tunnel experiences in Vietnam, I'd guess the pistol. |
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