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How in the hell is that even possible?

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I passed up on 2 different 95 Cobra Rs back around 10 years ago.   I have always wanted one but at the time did not have the money for them.   They are highly collectible buggers now going for 60k+ for good ones.   I passed on one with like 25k miles in 2014 for 25k as I was saving for a Boss 302 but settled on my 2015 GT when I learned theybwere coming out.

What Ford delivered was a fairly modest car meant for SCCA racing.   It's rear gear of 3.27 was likely more of a speed per gear decision for road course as opposed to a drag racing acceleration decision.   On a road course the 3.27 with the torque from a 351 can likely push the car to 140-155 while keeping the driveline critical speed lower.  A 50 inch driveline spinning at 5000+rpm is getting into the range where drive line angles and harmonics cpuld be an issue.

Throw a 3.73 in there and watch it drop half a second for drag racing which it was never intended for.   If they had made a Cobra Jet offering it likely would have been 4:10s with no smig equipment and 13 second car.

Cobra Rs were still 50 state smog legal EPA fucked.

That 351 had mild heads and mild cams but even back then you could bump to near 400 with ease on heads and a cam.

Currently have 3 mustangs in the garage down from 4, all 4 were bought between 2013 and 2017 spanning SN95, SN197, S550 plus the 66.

The 95 Cobra is still passing Ca smog with 114k miles with nothing more than a cam swap to wake it up.   The little 302 with gears hit 14.1 @98.5 as configured and on shit suspension.   If the engine finally gets a rebuild there are CARB EO# parts that will let me hit 300+ hp.

My replacement engine I intended for the 95 wound up sitting for 4 years because I didnt want to deal with smog.     The DART block 331 now sits in my 66 and is 380whp at 6k rpm and is about all the 225/45-17 summer tires can endure.

All that talk about 80s/90s turbo 4s, well yeah ofcourse their power for displacement went up.  They were actually developing for those engines and learning things on how to make them breathe.     Factory efforts for the old generation of V8s was not there.

Sadly back then the constrictions of existing factory parts would not let power adders work as well as they could.  

Go do the same to a V8 that can breathe and what happens?   Richard Holdner will show you exactly what happens, a 9.5:1 compression ratio 500hp SBF 408 will go to 1k+ HP on 13 pounds of boost is what happens.


There are things about a SBF and SBC that cannot be denied, the aftermarket will easily let you build  350-400hp right in your garage depending on displacement for a 300-347 cuin motor.   500+ all day if playing with 351-427 motors.    

Things learned were what gave rise to the LS when Chevy wisely decided they could keep the engine simpler.


My 2015 Coyote is already pretty much tapped out.  Heads and intake improvements might get me closer to to 500hp but it is about all you are gonna get.   Cams are much more expensive because you need 4 of the stupid things.   You cannot bore/stroke the thing for shit.

As for the Coyote heads, something goes through your oil you wind up with fucked up bearing surfaces on your aluminum heads.   Atleast the SBF has bearings for both cam journals and crank that can be knocked out and you can service that block for a long time.

Then there is the Coyote timing chain tensioners and other possible concerns.

Then there is the damn size comparison.    The SBF is able to fit into things much more easily than the big fat fuckin Coyote, a SBF 427 stroker is a smaller engine than the Coyote.   Dollars spent on the 427 will likely yield more HP than same dollars spent on a Coyote.

There really is not a hell of a lot of advantage to the Coyote at the end of the day when looking at complexity and durability.

My 66 is running EFI and the tune has me rolling around 17mpg on the freeway.   If I am patient and drive like a grandpa I can get 12ish city on the current tune but my being an asshole gets me 9-10.   My Coyote gets around 13 city, freeway is admittedly better but then it can monitor things my EFI in the 66 cannot but I dont see better than maybe 22-23 hwy.

If I sprung for a more feature rich Holley model I could have added a drive shaft speed sensor and built a table for when drive line RPM is higher than Engine RPM it would recognize I was in overdrive.    That would let me skip to a low load cruising AFR/Ignition table and likely bump up over 20mpg.

If I ever bump to a better EFI setup I may go multiport with a cam position sensor and better crank trigger.   I could then build out a timing table that will allow for even better control.

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Broken cam phasers, inadequate oiling to turbos, shitty thermal management and staggering costs for replacement parts and ongoing maintenance come in to play.   This system is like a good prom date, guaranteed to fuck you coming and going...

When it goes it's going to sound like the caterpillar drive on the red october minus the cooling circuits.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200610/e5d48f4510a1a52e7a33193a0987990b.jpg

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If you are gonna compare boosted to NA motors, then the displacement can't really be compared like that.  Boost is the replacement for displacement.  Of coarse you can have a lower displacement when you have 2 turbos stuffing air down its throat.

The 2.9L with turbos is going to use as much, or more air and fuel to get around than the 302.
From a reliability standpoint, we all know how long a 302 pushrod/roller motor can last.  Will the 2.9L and the turbos last that long?
And can you run the 87 octane in that thing?  A lot of modern low displacement boosted motors wont run on the cheap gas.

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Back it up a bit, and start looking at what the motors made in torque and HP below 3K (where you will be driving them most of the time.

Take a 5.9 mag, verses the 5.7 hemi, and although the later motor makes way more HP up top, both are truck motors where most of the time your driving them under 3K, and where the 5.9 makes more torque and HP in that range isntead.

As for how we got to where we are now, started with the oil embargo of 73, where all USA produced cars where gas guzzlers, and imports like the VW where selling like hot cakes instead.  Fact is, the USA car manufactors had the VW bugs banned from US sale in the late 74, stating that the tail lights where not large enough.  So back then, it was the likes of the Pinto's and Vega's (read disposable cars that would never last 80K in the first place) if you wanted a USA car that got better than 18 miles to the gallon.  
Now comes the 80's, but USA car manufacturers are still producing all cast block and head motors, the motors start to get larger again with less gas mileage, but EPA steps in with the engines having to run cleaner, so HP takes a back seat, with all the air control crap stuck on the cars to get them to burn cleaner.
Note here, the big blocks where making a lot of torque, but just not high rev HP numbers. Also No torque  control management to the control the output of the motor, so high HP numbers would just end up in more broken drive lines as well.

Truth is, it was not until the early 2000, when manufacturers started to go to aluminum blocks and heads, got the fuel injection figures out for the motors to start to both run clean and start breaking the 400hp numbers; with Torque management and throttle mapping hobbling in the ECM to make the HP drive-able on the streets.

And the reason that I bring up torque management and throttle mapping (both used to hobble the instant power of the motor), is with a car that is putting out more than 400hp/400lbs of torque, running say a carb and no TM, car would not be drive-able on the streets.

And lastly, need to think of what the motor is going to be installed to in the first place.  HP is just how much the motor will make when its at red line (higher it revs, the more HP that you can get out of the motor), while if the motor is going into say a truck, it needs to make huge torque at low TPMS instead.

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My buddy says:

"Already been done back then when Porsche was an engineering company who used the racetrack to test their technology. Search: Fuhrmann engine.

Besides the 550 Spyder and the Carrera, the 4 cam was used in the early 904, but bumped up to 2.0 liters. Some used mechanical fuel injection, similar to a Diesel."

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How in the hell is that even possible?

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I doubt that.  It was actually the other way.  Engines of the 60's were rated at gross hp where power robbed by belt driven accessories like water pumps, alternators, steering pumps, etc, was not reflected in the HP figure.   All that was changed in the 70's to SAE net power which was power at the flywheel with all required belt driven accessories hooked up.  

Engine ratings in the US have been using SAE Net measurement for a long time.  Emissions and fuel efficiency requirements, coupled with crash safety, down sizing and quality improvements that hit the industry in the 70's, really did drive down HP from the mid 70's to the mid 80's before things started to turn around as far as power went.