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Posted: 4/16/2017 11:32:57 PM EST
[#1]
Quoted:
Thinking about buying an ACOG. Looking at ACOG TA31F. (4x red chevron) good choice I have the horse shoe the chevron is better Main concern, clarity of glass. Will be used to shoot steel out to 500 yards. what barrel length  my ta31 is on a 20" bcm upper it rocks to 400 but falls apart at 500 yards the BDC IS NOT honest at 500 I use green tip 5.56.
Will I be able to pick out ~6inch circular steel plates against a rocky background with this pretty clearly? I don't have access to one to test so I'm asking on this here gun forum. yes, should be no problem. i have a gen 2 +D300. My ta 31 is almost as good at night & better if there is alot of street lights around. that wash out the NVD |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 11:35:05 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You get both with the ta-31. 1.5" eye relief you gain great FOV. Move your eye back to 2.4" (ta11) on your ta31 and the FOV is almost identical to the ta-11. It does notlook right as the edges are black but if you look at the viewable image it will be almost the same sight as if you were looking through a ta-11. With the 31 you can move your eye closer in and gain FOV, can't do that with the ta-11. |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 11:37:55 PM EST
[#3]
The glass compares with a Nightorce I have, but not my Elcan DR. Makes me want to try out an Elcan... |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 11:39:50 PM EST
[#4]
The glass is superb and I don't know if there's a more durable optic out there. I saw an M16 that was ripped apart by an IED and the RCO still functioned.
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Posted: 4/16/2017 11:41:03 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why? I have two 33s and will likely buy more. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Clear as a bell. Still want to sell my -33GH  The ONLY gripe is the FOV. That isn't a huge deal to me for my purposes, the pros outweigh the cons. |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 11:44:58 PM EST
[#6]
500 yard hits are pretty consistent (depending on wind) even with plain old m193 ball on a A4 clone, IME. You won't be disappointed.
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Posted: 4/16/2017 11:50:25 PM EST
[#7]
Opinions vary, but I find Trijicon glass superior to Leopold especially in low light.
. |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 11:54:31 PM EST
[#8]
I think 6" at 500 yards is beyond visual acuity at 4x.
No take that back it would be 125 yards and 6" after the 4x factor so yeah, doable. The ACOG glass is amazing on the couple I have. |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 11:58:01 PM EST
[#9]
When ACOGs (RCOs as they were known to us) first made their way to my regiment, we ran into issues with a few of them (<1%). Something inside broke, and left a substance inside that looked similar to baby powder or flour. We never knew what it was. We just turned it back into the armory and the OIC did whatever he did with them, and then we'd get new ones. That was 2005-2006ish. By the time they did away with iron sights quals, they seemed to have fixed the problem. I'd chalk it up to growing pains in having to supply the military, but what do I know? I've also been told that those issues never happened, and that no RCO ever failed. YMMV.
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Posted: 4/17/2017 12:11:51 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I shoot my ta31 nose to charging handle the FOV is spectacular. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You get both with the ta-31. 1.5" eye relief you gain great FOV. Move your eye back to 2.4" (ta11) on your ta31 and the FOV is almost identical to the ta-11. It does notlook right as the edges are black but if you look at the viewable image it will be almost the same sight as if you were looking through a ta-11. With the 31 you can move your eye closer in and gain FOV, can't do that with the ta-11. People complain about the eye relief on the 31 but it's not really true. Move your eye back to 2.4" which is the eye relief on the ta-11 and now the FOV on the ta-31 @ 2.4" will be the same inside the partial view as a full view on a ta-11 at 2.4" |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 12:12:49 AM EST
[#11]
I've had some pretty decent glass lately. Trijicon is always up there.
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Posted: 4/17/2017 12:30:33 AM EST
[#12]
Quoted:
Thinking about buying an ACOG. Looking at ACOG TA31F. (4x red chevron) |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 1:05:51 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly? I am much more comfortable with my H1. I know its a training issue and all, but I just dont want to put in the work for the ACOG vs. the Aimpoint at CQB distances. I like what Im used to and comfortable with. No other reason Just being honest. 
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Posted: 4/17/2017 1:17:51 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's the one I'm leaning toward. I like the green chevron reticles. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 1:28:55 AM EST
[#15]
I'd get in trouble if I created another account just to post "personally" and not officially, so please consider this my personal opinion only.
Over the 20+ years of running this site, I've used, owned, and tested a TON of optics. Not counting long range scopes, most of my ARs feature an ACOG. There are two exceptions, and those are Elcan Specter DRs. Many experts will swear by an Aimpoint T1/T2 especially for a SHTF/HD use, which are nice and have great battery life, but for me the advantage for general use is the magnification when needed to observe/ID a target. Using the "Bindon Aiming Concept", particularly with some of the bright battery-powered ACOGs IMHO is as good as the Aimpoint, with the advantage of magnification. The drawbacks in that comparison are size (and weight?), price, and maybe eye relief for those that like some distance between their face and their optic? The Elcan DR gives you all of the advantages of both, with two big drawbacks which are weight and cost. Again, just my personal opinion. I don't think you can go wrong with an ACOG. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 2:37:27 AM EST
[#16]
The optical clarity and FOV are awesome but the eye relief sucks. You can move your head back and sacrifice FOV, but then you need to center to reticle to prevent parallax.
I sold my ACOGs because I stopped shooting them. The ACOG may be the best all around optic, but I have many rifles and kept leaving my ACOG at home when I went to the range. If I wanted to shoot at CQB distance I used my Aimpoints. If I wanted to shoot longer range I shot my Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x32, 3-15x SWFA, et al. They were just a lot more pleasant to shoot in terms of eye relief and magnification. The ACOG does hold its value well though, I've never sold one for less than what I bought it for. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 8:48:08 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also very durable. I have used them twice on contracts. Being a K9 handler my M4 and ACOG got banged around a lot. The ACOG never lost zero and the glass never got scratched. Mine got blown up with me and still retained zero. I still have it to this day. Other than the tritium being a little dimmer it has performed flawlessly. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 8:49:24 AM EST
[#18]
Everyone that looks down mine says "Holy Shit! I want one"...until they ask about the price.
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Posted: 4/17/2017 8:52:00 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't really understand how good ACOGs are though until I started shooting at 300-500 yards. ACOGs make making those shots with an AR silly easy. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 8:57:00 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm going to go against the grain here. Clarity on my TA-33 was quite good, but I've looked through better. I ponied up the absurd price for the optic and then honestly wondered what the hype was about. It was a very good optic, don't misunderstand, but it wasn't as good as hyped. Its KISS while being superbly good. I was just out shooting mine for distance and its precise enough to hit headshots at 500m but you can still shoot and move and be as fast as red dot. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 9:01:00 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ONLY gripe is the FOV. That isn't a huge deal to me for my purposes, the pros outweigh the cons. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 9:15:00 AM EST
[#22]
I have a tan TA31 with the RMR piggy backing on the top. Great sight, at the time I had never spent that much on an optic. I was hesitant for years to buy one simply due to the cost, but now that i have it sshhhiiittt why did I wait so long..
I never really have any issues with eye relief. And everyone who shoots it loves it. Green Cross. I want more. 
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Posted: 4/17/2017 9:17:19 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Clear. Go for the 3.5x model.. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 9:54:03 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The optical clarity and FOV are awesome but the eye relief sucks. You can move your head back and sacrifice FOV, but then you need to center to reticle to prevent parallax. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 10:41:54 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ACOG excels at being, in my opinion, the best "all around" optic. If you are wanting to shoot 6" plates at 500 yards there are much better suited options in higher magnification ranges with smaller reticle lines. That plate will be completely covered by the reticle at that distance. That target size at that distance is dificult enough. Your AR (and ammo) better pretty much be MOA or better and then a perfect wind call from there. ACOG is not an Alpha brand, like Schmidt & Bender, Zeiss, Swarovski and such. It's a step below and most of its price is justified by the tritium feature. I've had many ACOGs - all TA11s but If I had to do it all over again, I would get a 1-4x Swarovski that's driven by an easily replaceable battery combining the best features of red dot and optics. Without the tritium, it is a $700 optic at best that compares well against other optics in the same price range. It's the tritium that makes it retail at $1399 and such. But optically, it does not compare against top glass. You reall need at least 42mm or better yet 50mm/56mm for maxium light transmission and brightness. The 32mm or 35mm objective limits you a little. It's ok but just ok. Get the "J" crosshairs reticle, I found all the others are unusable for accuracy. Not for sub-MOA stuff. Also when it burns out, it's not worth fixing, makes more sense to get another unit, maybe. The last time they quoted $450 for the reticle swap, maybe more now. As developers say, it's not a bug, it's a feature. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 10:54:05 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
correct. Once you use 6x at 500, you don't want to go back to 3.5x or 4x. ACOG is not an Alpha brand, like Schmidt & Bender, Zeiss, Swarovski and such. It's a step below and most of its price is justified by the tritium feature. I've had many ACOGs - all TA11s but If I had to do it all over again, I would get a 1-4x Swarovski that's driven by an easily replaceable battery combining the best features of red dot and optics. Without the tritium, it is a $700 optic at best that compares well against other optics in the same price range. It's the tritium that makes it retail at $1399 and such. But optically, it does not compare against top glass. You reall need at least 42mm or better yet 50mm/56mm for maxium light transmission and brightness. The 32mm or 35mm objective limits you a little. It's ok but just ok. Get the "J" crosshairs reticle, I found all the others are unusable for accuracy. Not for sub-MOA stuff. Also when it burns out, it's not worth fixing, makes more sense to get another unit, maybe. The last time they quoted $450 for the reticle swap, maybe more now. As developers say, it's not a bug, it's a feature. 1-x optics are slower than ACOGs in anything other than a gaming situation as BAC works instantly vs. throwing a lever. ACOGs can easily be found in the 7-800$ range new during sales etc. The J reticle is no more precise for anything except possibly 200m and its reticle is less intuitive for close shooting. The tritium is inconsequential, the fiberoptic never wears out. The only thing I agree with in your entire post is that the tritium ads to cost, and it would be nice if they made one with just fiber optic no tritium. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 10:58:22 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The hype is that its a tiny, lightweight, super rugged optic that is great from 5-600m with no adjustments to fiddle with, no levers to throw, nothing to do but hit things. Its KISS while being superbly good. I was just out shooting mine for distance and its precise enough to hit headshots at 500m but you can still shoot and move and be as fast as red dot. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 11:03:28 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd get in trouble if I created another account just to post "personally" and not officially, so please consider this my personal opinion only. Over the 20+ years of running this site, I've used, owned, and tested a TON of optics. Not counting long range scopes, most of my ARs feature an ACOG. There are two exceptions, and those are Elcan Specter DRs. Many experts will swear by an Aimpoint T1/T2 especially for a SHTF/HD use, which are nice and have great battery life, but for me the advantage for general use is the magnification when needed to observe/ID a target. Using the "Bindon Aiming Concept", particularly with some of the bright battery-powered ACOGs IMHO is as good as the Aimpoint, with the advantage of magnification. The drawbacks in that comparison are size (and weight?), price, and maybe eye relief for those that like some distance between their face and their optic? The Elcan DR gives you all of the advantages of both, with two big drawbacks which are weight and cost. Again, just my personal opinion. I don't think you can go wrong with an ACOG. I've never seen GD have such a consensus with many reasonable and well thought out, informative posts. I'm gonna grab the TA 31F. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 11:06:17 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also when it burns out, it's not worth fixing, makes more sense to get another unit, maybe. The last time they quoted $450 for the reticle swap, maybe more now. As developers say, it's not a bug, it's a feature. Process involved getting an RMA Number: Trijicon Return Authorization Then sending it in and they give you quote, which you approve or have them send it back. Here is the email I got back: We have received your TA01 under RA# XXX. Upon inspection, it has been determined that the illumination is out of the 10 year warranty. To replace the tritium will be $300.00 and that will include a brand new prism and a renewed warranty of 10 years. The adjustment is also bad but the repair is covered under warranty. A nitrogen fill and clean will also be performed. Please contact Trijicon by calling the below number as to how you would like to proceed. Have a great day. Thank you for your patronage of Trijicon and our products So bought used, sent it to Trijicon, and they refurbished it for $300; total $800 with new 10yr warranty. ETA: You can buy new for $100-200 more... |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 11:49:23 AM EST
[#30]
Over the years I have owned a TA31, TA44 and TA33. While all had great clarity glass I did have other quality issues with the TA44 and TA33 (2013 production).
Both of these optics had issues with the black paint applied to the lens (giving you the nice round image when you look through the scope). On both optics the paint initially look streaky, with light visible through the black, but it soon began to run and show even more streaks. I am guessing this was from improper degreasing of the lens prior to application of the paint. I returned both sights and haven't bought a Trijicon product since. That experience, in combination with all of the SRS red dots that I sold breaking, has given me a general distrust of their quality control. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 12:34:21 PM EST
[#31]
See if universalmania.com has the model that you want. I got my TA31RCOA4 there for less than anywhere else that had it. I was a little concerned, but it wound up being for nothing. Received it within less than a week, and paid $1277.
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Posted: 4/17/2017 12:37:20 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The hype is that its a tiny, lightweight, super rugged optic that is great from 5-600m with no adjustments to fiddle with, no levers to throw, nothing to do but hit things. Its KISS while being superbly good. I was just out shooting mine for distance and its precise enough to hit headshots at 500m but you can still shoot and move and be as fast as red dot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm going to go against the grain here. Clarity on my TA-33 was quite good, but I've looked through better. I ponied up the absurd price for the optic and then honestly wondered what the hype was about. It was a very good optic, don't misunderstand, but it wasn't as good as hyped. Its KISS while being superbly good. I was just out shooting mine for distance and its precise enough to hit headshots at 500m but you can still shoot and move and be as fast as red dot. I like my T1, but I love my TA33. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 12:40:40 PM EST
[#33]
Quoted:
Looking at ACOG TA31F. (4x red chevron) I have that Acog and yes, excellent. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 12:41:24 PM EST
[#34]
Best optic I have ever used was my issued RCO
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Posted: 4/17/2017 12:42:20 PM EST
[#35]
I run a TA31, and use it to shoot steel out to 100. Typically only going after full size IPSC Metric at that distance though, my eyes just aren't good enough without more magnification.
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Posted: 4/17/2017 8:44:32 PM EST
[#36]
I have many Acog 1.5x to 6x. ta31 4x32 is the best of them all. Huge fov and minimal scope shadow.
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Posted: 4/17/2017 8:55:01 PM EST
[#37]
I've had both the 4x and 3.5x.
Sold the 4x because of the eye relief. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 9:07:12 PM EST
[#38]
Perchance have you had the opportunity to sample the VCOG's?
1-6x with large eye box and good relief. FFP reticle is nice, also. Yes. A bit more pricey than fixed magnification ACOG models, but glass is Trijicon quality, and quality of construction just as bombproof. I have VCOG's in both 5.56 and 7.62 reticles. And despite the criticism some have leveled that the AA battery illuminated reticle washes out under bright direct sunlight, even against a white background with illumination turned up high I have not personally experienced this phenomenon. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 9:22:00 PM EST
[#39]
You get what you pay for. Elcan $2K, ACOG $1K. If budget is a concern, check out the burris ar 332, 532 scopes. Around $300 they are nice. Poor mans acog. I prefer a 1X6 illuminated scope for 500 yds.
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