How hard is it to hit a target at 500+ yards? - Page 1

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How hard is it to hit a target at 500+ yards? (Page 1 of 8)

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:05:14 AM EDT

How many rounds would you have to shoot for practice to be able to hit a man sized target at 500 yards with, say, a 20'' bbl AR.? What about a .308 bolt gun with a decent scope? I've only shot out to 100 yards.

Edit: Haven't shot an AR, all I can afford for now is my shotgun and unconverted Saiga.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:05:52 AM EDT

[#1]

One, to get a read of the wind.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:07:30 AM EDT

[#2]

I have nail a gallon jug of tannerite at 600yards using a 20" bull BBL AR....but I started shooting many years ago.

I have also shot out to about 800 yards with the same set up.....with various results.

Practice

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:09:15 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
One, to get a read of the wind.

This, at most.

Wind reading is your friend.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:12:52 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
One, to get a read of the wind.

This is good advice. Wind reading is a skill that you need to hit accurately past 250-300 yds.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:13:57 AM EDT

[#5]

It's pretty easy with a proper gun and a modicum of skill.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:14:47 AM EDT

[#6]

Farthest I have shot was about 375yards, it was fairly windy and I was shooting from a ridgeline to about 3/4 up the mountain next to me. It wasn't too hard and got a good hit on a mule deer sized target with 1 round. I'm sure things are a bit harder further out.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:15:23 AM EDT

[#7]

Trivial if you have the proper equipment.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:16:47 AM EDT

[#8]

Hitting a man sized "target" at 500 yards is not difficult. Picking up a good mirage will help in making a solid wind call.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:17:36 AM EDT

[#9]

It's not hard at all, really. As long as your rifle and ammo are well tested, and your position and technique are solid.

Reading wind is something that can take quite a while to learn. If you are a low down scope using cheater, you can even use it to read heat mirage without it being hot outside.

I used to shoot service rifle highpower matches, and thats 600 yards, no scope, no bench, no rests, and just about all shots should fall in a hole smaller than a torso if you do your part.

So yeah, dream it, then do it. Targets though. Not torsos.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:18:13 AM EDT

[#10]

How about off-hand with iron sights?

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:18:52 AM EDT

[#11]

If your front sight post moves at all while you're set up and aiming, then you need to go back and work on your fundamentals.
Or you can cheat and use a bag/bipod/rest.

But if you can shoot on the short line, you can shoot on the long line. The only difference is wind.

A man at 500 with a service rifle and service ammunition is a >90% hit probability with a halfway decent shooter and a good wind call.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:18:54 AM EDT

[#12]

I convinced my wife to shoot a long range match with me earlier this year. It was her first time shooting past about 250 yards, and before the end of the match she was making 1st and 2nd round hits on targets considerably smaller than a torso at distances greater than 600 yards, using a .308 rifle.

She's since upgraded to a more worthwhile cartridge and still shoots LR matches with me.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:19:05 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
One, to get a read of the wind.

First post and all. It may not take that many either.

500 is not all that far and 600 really isn't either. After that, the wind really starts messing with you.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:19:24 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
How about off-hand with iron sights?

Too far to do with any real probability, I'd say. 200 is not bad with good gear.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:19:53 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

How about off-hand with iron sights?

Better be a big ass target

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:21:52 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How about off-hand with iron sights?

Better be a big ass target

Keep shooting until you hit.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:23:22 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Hitting a man sized "target" at 500 yards is not difficult. Picking up a good mirage will help in making a solid wind call.

This

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:23:49 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How about off-hand with iron sights?

Too far to do with any real probability, I'd say. 200 is not bad with good gear.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:24:10 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How about off-hand with iron sights?

Better be a big ass target

+1
I tried it. The front sight blade covers a man size target at 400yds

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:25:00 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
How about off-hand with iron sights?

Iron sights don't hurt you at 500 unless your eyesight is terrible.

Standing, offhand, with no sling, no coat, on uneven terrain? That's tough. Not impossible, but very tough. You're going to compound your inaccuracy with a ~4MOA tremor even if you're pretty good. Figure you have a 1 minute rifle and 2 minute ammo... that's a "group size" of slightly over a yard at 500. Now add in wind and it gets worse.

You get a sling and cut your tremor in half and you'll do much better.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:25:20 AM EDT

[#21]

First of all OP, get yourself a decent 22LR rifle and go to an Appleseed Shoot:

http://www.appleseedinfo.org/index.html

They'll teach you the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship, and if you're a beginner, it makes no sense to drop the coin on match centerfire rifles and ammo without the fundamentals. I've been shooting centerfire rifles for a good 10 years before going to my first appleseed shoot, and I've learned more with my 22LR rifle and their instructors than I did shooting in those 10 years.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:25:32 AM EDT

[#22]

At 300 yards, your typical .223 round is at the mercy of both the wind and gravity. At 500 yards with an AR I'd say that it's challenging. 500 yards with a good .308 bolt gun is doable. However, at 400 yards the .308 also starts dropping like a stone.

I don't care what people say, having the skill to be reliably hit a man or game sized target at 500 yards or further takes great skill and practice, and should be considered an a worthy achievement.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:26:10 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Hitting a man sized "target" at 500 yards is not difficult. Picking up a good mirage will help in making a solid wind call.

This... I actually shot better there in the matches than at the 200 or 300 meter line... (assuming the OP allows for prone)...

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:26:15 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How about off-hand with iron sights?

Too far to do with any real probability, I'd say. 200 is not bad with good gear.

If you're slung and you have a nice thin sight post and good eyesight you can do it with practice. I've seen it done by better shooters than myself.
My longest consistent hitting is about 430 yards on prairie dogs with an HK93 off the bipod with PSG1 trigger group and a 24 X scope.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:26:54 AM EDT

[#25]

On the Internet... I can do it with one shot.

In reality... The last time I took such a shot was at the BRM 3-gun back in April.
IIRC the target was at 540 yards.
Hit it with my second shot.

16" AR with a 1-4 power scope.

I'm sure there was a little bit of plain ol' dumb luck involved.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:27:44 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How about off-hand with iron sights?

Better be a big ass target

+1
I tried it. The front sight blade covers a man size target at 400yds

"frame hold" was my friend....

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:28:07 AM EDT

[#27]

USMC KD course .....10 rounds at 500 yards.....I usually went 7 out of 10.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:29:10 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
At 300 yards, your typical .223 round is at the mercy of both the wind and gravity. At 500 yards with an AR I'd say that it's challenging. 500 yards with a good .308 bolt gun is doable. However, at 400 yards the .308 also starts dropping like a stone.

I don't care what people say, having the skill to be reliably hit a man or game sized target at 500 yards or further takes great skill and practice, and should be considered an a worthy achievement.

This is the truth. I bet most of the people here would have a hard time making even a 3rd round hit in anything other than the most ideal conditions.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:29:30 AM EDT

[#29]

Easy. Know your dopes and compensate for cold bore shot.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:30:35 AM EDT

[#30]

Another thing.

You guys that have never shot past 200 yards don't have to just sit around wondering what the deal is. Take your .22LR rifle (you do have one, don't you?), and shoot it at 100 yards.
With subsonics, there's about 4-5" of drop on a .22LR at 100 from a 50 yard zero.
You go out to 150 yards, and we're talking around 15" of drop.

Take a 1/3 scale target and shoot it with a .22LR at 125-150 yards. That's about the same difficulty as hitting a man at 500 with a service rifle.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:32:17 AM EDT

[#31]

Lobbing in .22LR at 200 yards is fun as well.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:34:03 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
On the Internet... I can do it with one shot.

In reality... The last time I took such a shot was at the BRM 3-gun back in April.
IIRC the target was at 540 yards.
Hit it with my second shot.

16" AR with a 1-4 power scope.

I'm sure there was a little bit of plain ol' dumb luck involved.

What range do you have your rifle zero'd at? I am assuming the targets are from 25 out to 540 for the match?

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:35:09 AM EDT

[#33]

It took me 3 shots to hit a prairie dog at 497, in what I estimated to be 18mph wind. Only the first wouldn't have hit a man sized target. Of course this was from a rest. I'm dubious of my ability to hit a man sized target at that range in anything but prone supported with a sling, or from a rest.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:35:28 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How about off-hand with iron sights?

Better be a big ass target

+1
I tried it. The front sight blade covers a man size target at 400yds

"frame hold" was my friend....

Works at 1000 too.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:36:13 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
It took me 3 shots to hit a prairie dog at 497, in what I estimated to be 18mph wind. Only the first wouldn't have hit a man sized target. Of course this was from a rest. I'm dubious of my ability to hit a man sized target at that range in anything but prone supported with a sling, or from a rest.

Pretty good shot with that much wind. Were you able to see the impact of shot #1?

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:36:41 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
USMC KD course .....10 rounds at 500 yards.....I usually went 7 out of 10.

That's about right. Marines all over the world are probably doing it right now. Semper Fi.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:38:22 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
USMC KD course .....10 rounds at 500 yards.....I usually went 7 out of 10.

Fucking this. And I did it with this:

No HBAR, no optics, no bipod, just a plain old issued rifle and iron sights. Is it hard? Not in the least if you apply the fundamentals and don't rush your shots.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:39:10 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
USMC KD course .....10 rounds at 500 yards.....I usually went 7 out of 10.

That's about right. Marines all over the world are probably doing it right now. Semper Fi.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Now it has been years since I have done it so I would probalby need a week of so of practice to get back in the swing of it.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:40:11 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
USMC KD course .....10 rounds at 500 yards.....I usually went 7 out of 10.

That's about right. Marines all over the world are probably doing it right now. Semper Fi.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Now it has been years since I have done it so I would probalby need a week of so of practice to get back in the swing of it.

Nah. Solid zero, good sight alignment, good sight picture, slow squeeze, knock it down.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:41:00 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
At 300 yards, your typical .223 round is at the mercy of both the wind and gravity. At 500 yards with an AR I'd say that it's challenging. 500 yards with a good .308 bolt gun is doable. However, at 400 yards the .308 also starts dropping like a stone.

I don't care what people say, having the skill to be reliably hit a man or game sized target at 500 yards or further takes great skill and practice, and should be considered an a worthy achievement.

This is the truth. I bet most of the people here would have a hard time making even a 3rd round hit in anything other than the most ideal conditions.

Are you even serious?

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:42:14 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
How many rounds would you have to shoot for practice to be able to hit a man sized target at 500 yards with, say, a 20'' bbl AR.? What about a .308 bolt gun with a decent scope? I've only shot out to 100 yards.

Edit: Haven't shot an AR, all I can afford for now is my shotgun and unconverted Saiga.

Sir, FWIW it's not hard, given a modicum of knowledge and a little skill. As a service rifle shooter that has fired many many rounds at targets 600 and 1K yd downrange basic sight come ups are essential. "Come ups" as they are generally known are the number of minutes of angle the shooter must raise the rear sight to cause the barrel of the rifle to elevate slightly to cause the trajectory of the bullet flight to strike the point of aim at each successive distance downrange. IIRC the 500 yd come up I used with an M1A was fourteen minutes up from my 200yd zero. High power rules for service rifle do not allow the use of scopes mounted on the rifle and frankly I don't really need one. I do use them for hunting but that's largely because shot placement is important.

Once you know what the increase in elevation is the rest is largely a windage correction based on some estimate of the effects of the wind will be on the lateral movement of the point of impact on target relative to your point of aim. There are wind charts in common usage by high power competitors to provide an estimate for sight corrections based on the direction and speed of the wind on the range given a specific bullet type, BC, and MV. Most shooters I know joke about it, some call it an art form while others think of it as some form of voodoo. However you may choose to regard wind reading skills your first shot on paper should tell you all you need to know to correct for the next shot provided you keep up with the changing conditions on the range. JMHO, 7zero1.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:42:33 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How about off-hand with iron sights?

Better be a big ass target

+1
I tried it. The front sight blade covers a man size target at 400yds

"frame hold" was my friend....

Works at 1000 too.

I dont shoot at something that's to far to walk to score

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:43:01 AM EDT

[#43]

went shooting over the weekend with a friend. each of us decided to try and "ring" the steel silhouette at 500yrds with my 18" 6.8 spc using factory loaded 120grn ammo. after doing the drop calculations and adjusting for that, we each hit on the first shot, and each subsequent after.

then proceeded to play with the 12" gong hanging at 200yrds off hand with irons and 4moa red dots with tula .223.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:43:16 AM EDT

[#44]

Used to do it fairly regularly at Riverside Gun Club in Ramseur, NC.

Targets were military silhouette pop-ups at 100, 200, 300, and 500 yds.

It takes practice, decent ammo, and confidence, but it's eminently do-able.

I've shot this course of fire with an AR, an M1, an M1A, an HK91, a Valmet M-76, a 1903A3, an Arisaka, and a K31.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:44:07 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:

How about off-hand with iron sights?

Too far to do with any real probability, I'd say. 200 is not bad with good gear.

I was shooting 200 yard torsos with an AK hungover as hell. +

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:44:40 AM EDT

[#46]

The farthest shot ive ever had the opportunity to take was about 300 meters (the back of the quarry at Knob Creek.) There is a black rock, roughly torso size all the way back.

With Irons, from the bench, it was easy to hit using milsurp ammo and a S&W M&P15 rifle 1/9 twist.

I keep meaning to go back and see how easilly I can hit it standing, with a tight sling, using my hand loads.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:45:46 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
At 300 yards, your typical .223 round is at the mercy of both the wind and gravity. At 500 yards with an AR I'd say that it's challenging. 500 yards with a good .308 bolt gun is doable. However, at 400 yards the .308 also starts dropping like a stone.

I don't care what people say, having the skill to be reliably hit a man or game sized target at 500 yards or further takes great skill and practice, and should be considered an a worthy achievement.

This is the truth. I bet most of the people here would have a hard time making even a 3rd round hit in anything other than the most ideal conditions.

Are you even serious?

Yeah, I am. I spend enough time at public ranges to know that the average level of skill in shooting is remarkably low. Couple that with the insane claims that are made all the time on the internet and it's not hard to say that most people couldn't make the shot.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:46:19 AM EDT

[#48]

this is where i shoot

Morning fog at thunder valley

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

no fog :)

we spotted a groundhog at the 1 mile target who took allot of incoming artillery fire... but he lived...

pics from the shoot

http://min.us/mpcUhTXgT

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:47:15 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Yeah, I am. I spend enough time at public ranges to know that the average level of skill in shooting is remarkably low. Couple that with the insane claims that are made all the time on the internet and it's not hard to say that most people couldn't make the shot.

That is a realistic way of looking at it. All the guys I shoot with can do it though.

Posted: 10/25/2011 9:47:54 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

USMC KD course .....10 rounds at 500 yards.....I usually went 7 out of 10.

I'm about the same. I've made 7-8 shots in the black with both an M4 and M16 with iron sights and issued ammo. It's tough, but not impossible by any means. Now, to put this in perspective I've also shot company high shooter before on the KD range out of 250 Marines, so I would say I'm an above average shot. The 500 is my worst distance though...

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How hard is it to hit a target at 500+ yards? (Page 1 of 8)

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