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Posted: 1/3/2024 3:37:14 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: USS New Jersey is going into dry dock. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/425212/1655953950484-2461953.png When is that happening? |
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Posted: 1/3/2024 5:25:03 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When is that happening? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: USS New Jersey is going into dry dock. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/425212/1655953950484-2461953.png When is that happening? Right now. Don't get too excited, but we can dream. It's just historical repairs, unless it's a secret awesome project https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12919517/Navy-biggest-fastest-battleship-set-sail-2024.html https://bnnbreaking.com/world/us/historic-uss-new-jersey-battleship-to-undergo-major-maintenance-after-32-years/ |
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Posted: 1/3/2024 5:37:09 PM EDT
[#3]
The New Jersey is mostly getting it's hull re-painted; just stripped and re-painted as the last video I watched stated that they weren't going to try and weld up the rust pits. Also some repair work, but most of the work will be from what they have to take off in order to get her under a bridge to get to the dry dock. And no, she won't be moved under her own power, she will be towed the entire way. Several video's on the New Jersey YouTube channel on what they are planning to do and what they need to do to get her moved. Most interesting thing I found out so far is that they are NOT going to use the special 'anti-fouling' paint most ships use to paint the hull that prevents barnacles etc from attaching to the hull. Apparently not needed that much as her permanent mooring is actually in a fairly fresh water portion of the Hudson river and the paint also depends on the ship moving through the water to work correctly.
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Posted: 1/3/2024 5:44:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The New Jersey is mostly getting it's hull re-painted; just stripped and re-painted as the last video I watched stated that they weren't going to try and weld up the rust pits. Also some repair work, but most of the work will be from what they have to take off in order to get her under a bridge to get to the dry dock. And no, she won't be moved under her own power, she will be towed the entire way. Several video's on the New Jersey YouTube channel on what they are planning to do and what they need to do to get her moved. Most interesting thing I found out so far is that they are NOT going to use the special 'anti-fouling' paint most ships use to paint the hull that prevents barnacles etc from attaching to the hull. Apparently not needed that much as her permanent mooring is actually in a fairly fresh water portion of the Hudson river and the paint also depends on the ship moving through the water to work correctly. I wonder how many more years she'll last. |
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Posted: 1/3/2024 5:59:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: By “ballasting the fuel tanks” do you mean fill empty compartments with saltwater? LOL! They would pump empty fuel tanks with water and empty water tanks with fuel. How do you think they got the DF/JP coffee and showers? |
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Posted: 1/3/2024 10:40:48 PM EDT
[#6]
 The Navy's Super Secret Stash of Keel Blocks and How You Paint Under Them |
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Posted: 1/3/2024 10:49:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The New Jersey is mostly getting its hull re-painted; just stripped and re-painted as the last video I watched stated that they weren't going to try and weld up the rust pits. Also some repair work, but most of the work will be from what they have to take off in order to get her under a bridge to get to the dry dock. And no, she won't be moved under her own power, she will be towed the entire way. Several video's on the New Jersey YouTube channel on what they are planning to do and what they need to do to get her moved. Most interesting thing I found out so far is that they are NOT going to use the special 'anti-fouling' paint most ships use to paint the hull that prevents barnacles etc from attaching to the hull. Apparently not needed that much as her permanent mooring is actually in a fairly fresh water portion of the Fixt. |
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Posted: 1/4/2024 7:13:51 AM EDT
[#8]
I wonder how often boats come off the blocks in drydock and squish people. Being under one must be a weird feeling.
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Posted: 1/4/2024 8:16:20 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Through hull holes to take water in or let it out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What are sea chests? There are over 130 holes in the bottom the the New Jersey that currently have plates welded over them. When the USS Washington was commissioned the UN Navy sent some 200 highly experienced chiefs to train the crew which was mostly raw recruits. One was my dad just out of Great Lakes. He reported to the ship and his first thought was that even a dumb farm boy from the sticks knew that if you put a piece of metal into a bucket of water it sinks and there was the biggest piece of metal that he had ever seen. He would up as a gun captain in the #3 turret. With a very aggressive training schedule it would probably be a good 12 months from sea trials to efficient fighting machine. An Iowa turret explosion event is actually very easy thing for an untrained crew to brew up. The battleship Mississippi had it happen twice. Once in 1924 and again in 1943. |
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Posted: 1/4/2024 8:35:57 AM EDT
[#10]
One other thing is the very short barrel life of the 18" gun. At the start of WWII it was about 200 rounds. By the end of the war it was closer to 300 rounds. Mainly due to changes in powder formulation. Old barrels were removed and relined. Can this even be done in the US today?
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Posted: 1/4/2024 8:42:38 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One other thing is the very short barrel life of the 18" gun. At the start of WWII it was about 200 rounds. By the end of the war it was closer to 300 rounds. Mainly due to changes in powder formulation. Old barrels were removed and relined. Can this even be done in the US today? I didn't realize that the US was lobbing 18 inchers during WWII. |
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Posted: 1/6/2024 11:40:48 PM EDT
[#12]
 Cher - If I Could Turn Back Time (Official Video) |
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Posted: 1/6/2024 11:54:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would have thought years. A full year, at least. If large shit needed to be cut out of the boat, it would take a long-assed time, even in 'git er dun mode. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Unlike the movie, months. Even if she was seaworthy, armed and provisioned, her crew needs a training period so they are proficient in their job. You just can't send a brand new battleship off to a fight with workmen on board. Oh wait, Prince of Wales and Bismarck. I would have thought years. A full year, at least. If large shit needed to be cut out of the boat, it would take a long-assed time, even in 'git er dun mode. It isn't possible. If it were, it would take years. There is no one left on active duty qualified to stand a single watch station on a BB. There is no one left on active duty qualified to teach a school about how to stand a single watch station on a BB. There is no equipment for a BB. There are no spares (the spare gun barrels were sold at auction over ten years ago). There is no one left on active duty qualified to fix any of the combat systems on a BB. Those fancy guns you all love so much? No powder for them, no shells for them, and probably nobody left who even knows how to make any of it anymore either. Shipyard support? LOL You'd have to put them in the yards for years for a complete refit (which you'd have to figure out how to do and plan, which would take years), during that time you'd have to figure out how to train up a crew the size of a CVN crew to come up with a capability that is totally irrelevant in today's wars. And you'd have to stand up a completely new logistics chain to support them at the same time. |
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Posted: 1/6/2024 11:57:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plenty of .16" shells and powder sitting on the banks of the Potomac that is still fired on occasion. Getting the engineering sweet running would be a chore but not impossible. The harpoons, CIWS and Tomahawk launchers would be pretty quick to get back online. Getting a crew no problem, but an effective crew would take longer. Id say less than a year maybe. Lol, no there isn't. Not for many years now. |
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Posted: 1/6/2024 11:58:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Security clearance and all that nonsense ya know. I've personally inventoried the stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There actually are powder and projectiles available. That's all I can say about that BTW. ETA there is a bunch of 5"/50 Thanks for sharing that nugget In the last ten years? |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 12:01:45 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The barrel liners last for about 250 shots. But, this was not a limiting factor. Unless these also have been scrapped, too. They may have been, remember that hammerhead crane which was preserved, as it could work on an Iowa turret, it is gone now. From what I've been told all of that stuff was scrapped back around 2010. I remember seeing the auctions when they were listed. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 12:02:42 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When is that happening? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: USS New Jersey is going into dry dock. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/425212/1655953950484-2461953.png When is that happening? The Texas is also in dry dock, she's also not getting refitted, just brought up to a "don't sink at the pier" standard so she can keep being a museum ship. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 12:06:19 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Texas is also in dry dock, she's also not getting refitted, just brought up to a "don't sink at the pier" standard so she can keep being a museum ship. A ship that I toured once later sank at the pier. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 12:07:19 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A ship that I toured once later sank at the pier. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Texas is also in dry dock, she's also not getting refitted, just brought up to a "don't sink at the pier" standard so she can keep being a museum ship. A ship that I toured once later sank at the pier. So did the Texas... |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 12:08:15 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So did the Texas... The Texas rusted and sank? |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 12:10:01 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Texas rusted and sank? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So did the Texas... The Texas rusted and sank? sank at the pier. Fortunately there was only a few feet of water under the keel. They've refloated her, got her into a floating dry dock, and moved her into a shipyard at Galveston for repairs. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 12:12:03 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: sank at the pier. Fortunately there was only a few feet of water under the keel. They've refloated her, got her into a floating dry dock, and moved her into a shipyard at Galveston for repairs. Is a corrosion sinking usually slow and easily escapable or can a large surface area of steel suddenly give way and it be quite the opposite? |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 12:19:50 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is a corrosion sinking usually slow and easily escapable or can a large surface area of steel suddenly give way and it be quite the opposite? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: sank at the pier. Fortunately there was only a few feet of water under the keel. They've refloated her, got her into a floating dry dock, and moved her into a shipyard at Galveston for repairs. Is a corrosion sinking usually slow and easily escapable or can a large surface area of steel suddenly give way and it be quite the opposite? She had a ton of issues. Ships aren't like a sealed bubble underwater, they've got shafts and seals and sea chests and all sorts of entry and exit points for water that all have to be maintained. When they're not, well, bad things happen. She had a number of compartments below the water line flooded for a couple of years from what I remember reading. They were running pumps continually when I visited in 2011, it was a few years later that she finally couldn't stay afloat anymore. My guess is that they're going to seal a lot of the underwater stuff off that wasn't already. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 12:20:50 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bravo, couldn't had said it better myself, exactly part of my job down in "The Hole". Start sucking out of a contaminated tank, line up your fuel oil separator (centrifuge) and start recirculating that tank until clean. Constantly sampling and testing up in the oil/water lab until it meets specs. Waste shit you are spinning off goes into a "stripping tank" and if you are over 50 miles from shore you pump it over the side. Just went down a rabbit hole and looking up the 2 main types of purifiers the Navy used, Sharples and DeLaval centrifugal purifiers. Used them for Lube oil and Fuel oil. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/63650/alfa-naval-purifier_jpg-3078175.JPG Looks like this, imagine it surrounded by piping and valves tucked into the most inaccessible corner of one of the engine/boiler rooms. Considering after you run it for a set period you have to disassemble it and remove all the centrifuge plates and clean the hell out of it or it stops separating. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/63650/purifier_jpg-3078178.JPG Very good image of one installed, caption says from Destroyer. It is light grey below and to left of fire extinguisher, note the yellow piping going in and out. Has Flange Shields on the flanges in case of leaks. Ours was very similarly set up. I remember cleaning those plates as lower levelman. I don't remember how many there were, but it seemed endless. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 12:28:33 AM EDT
[#25]
Was the 3-gun turret considered a major leap forward in technology over the triple? What exactly was the advantage of independent elevation control? Thanks.
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Posted: 1/7/2024 12:47:51 AM EDT
[#26]
First off, we would be better off building entirely new battleships rather than trying to refurbish one of the old ones.
Second... you know all those problems the Chinese are reportedly having with carriers. I am betting a lot of that is that the Chinese don't have the institutional knowledge needed to build and operate carriers. They will learn but it will take time. Likewise there is a lot of institutional knowledge in building and operating battleships and we have lost it. There are countless little tricks and lessons learned that went into making battleships work in WWII, and we would have to relearn them. Battleships in 2024 are a horribly outdated idea that have no real place in a modern navy. That being said, if we had to build them for some reason the best bet would be to start small (small for battleships) and build what would amount to a few heavy cruisers. Then with that experience, move on to smaller battleships in the maybe 20,000 ton range with 12 inch guns. Then after some time working the bugs out of them we could move on to larger battleships. So, I would say a decade or more until we could actually put effective battleships to sea, and that would be with a major national effort. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 1:57:09 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was the 3-gun turret considered a major leap forward in technology over the triple? What exactly was the advantage of independent elevation control? Thanks. The guns need to be elevated to certain position to be loaded. So you could target and fire one gun for smaller salvos, while the others were being loaded. If one gun was hit and jammed, the rest would still be able to elevate to be loaded and aimed. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 2:24:30 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder how often boats come off the blocks in drydock and squish people. Being under one must be a weird feeling. It is. I went under a 4000 ton frigate at the shipyard in Yokosuka. Not a battleship but big enough. IIRC, as part of the design and build, they have the blocking points made. The details are available to the shipyards and the blocks are placed while the dock is dry. The ship enters the dock, it's positioned over the blocks then the dock is pumped out. Under normal conditions, a ship isn't likely to come off the blocks and tip. I recall reading that the 1906 San Fransisco earthquake caused a ship to shift on its blocks at Mare Island with a broken keel as the result. A quick search didn't turn anything up. We went under the ship to see the structure, etc, once and after an earthquake, the Chief Engineer and I did a quick look to see if it looked like any slippage or shifting had occurred. We decided it wasn't the place to be considering it was Japan and aftershocks or a larger main shock weren't out of the question. We were wearing out hard hats, though. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 2:26:59 AM EDT
[#29]
 USS Missouri BB 63 - The Mighty Mo |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 3:11:07 AM EDT
[#30]
The last of the old battleships are a hybrid ship. There's some relatively new stuff. But the biggest part of the ship is WWII era engineering and shipbuilding. The big problem is the armor. If we want an armored behemoth and can't build a new one, we scoop out and use the old one. Perhaps stuck with the engineering plant. Otherwise build a new ship around the armor. We build and crew new ships all the time. This would be a huge project. Doesn't seem reasonable.
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Posted: 1/7/2024 3:42:01 AM EDT
[#31]
fuck those big guns...
make them all rail guns or make some of them rail guns and also test out the new energy shielding setup they talked about at DARPA many years ago. Upgrade it and make it seaworthy and survivable with missiles PDW's, whatever. Have it use drones, AI, make it automated...I don't care, just bring them back. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 3:49:16 AM EDT
[#32]
Question: How long would it take to get BB-63 combat-ready?
Answer at (3:45)  Can Battleship NJ Still Move Under Her Own Power? |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 8:28:17 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question: How long would it take to get BB-63 combat-ready? Answer at (3:45)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biIl574TyqoHeck yes, so the answer is yes they can! But not quick or cheap. 
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Posted: 1/7/2024 9:45:55 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The big training issue on Bismarck was gunnery. Bismarck had guns as big as steers and shells as big as trees. That posed a lot of crew challenges. I like what you did there, Johnny! |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 10:56:02 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It isn't possible. If it were, it would take years. There is no one left on active duty qualified to stand a single watch station on a BB. There is no one left on active duty qualified to teach a school about how to stand a single watch station on a BB. There is no equipment for a BB. There are no spares (the spare gun barrels were sold at auction over ten years ago). There is no one left on active duty qualified to fix any of the combat systems on a BB. Those fancy guns you all love so much? No powder for them, no shells for them, and probably nobody left who even knows how to make any of it anymore either. Shipyard support? LOL You'd have to put them in the yards for years for a complete refit (which you'd have to figure out how to do and plan, which would take years), during that time you'd have to figure out how to train up a crew the size of a CVN crew to come up with a capability that is totally irrelevant in today's wars. And you'd have to stand up a completely new logistics chain to support them at the same time. I don't understand why people think it isn't possible to rebuild something that was once built from nothing, or recreate a process or skill set once conjured from nothing, when we probably have recipes, prints, and manuals archived. As for all the skill sets, process engineering isn't that hard. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 11:30:07 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like what you did there, Johnny! Once the shells and powder charges are big enough that they can't be man-handled, does it matter how big they are? |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 12:23:54 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't understand why people think it isn't possible to rebuild something that was once built from nothing, or recreate a process or skill set once conjured from nothing, when we probably have recipes, prints, and manuals archived. As for all the skill sets, process engineering isn't that hard. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 1:13:26 PM EDT
[#38]
I think the 16" guns on the Iowa class ships are awesome. The problem is that we now have the technology to put much greater loads of ordnance at much greater distances while keeping the ships much further away from any adversary. Aircraft dropping JDAM's, and cruise missiles can do everything a 16" gun used to do, and do it at much greater distances than the 16" guns 26 mile range.
With all that said, there is just something about letting an adversary know that they are within range of 16" guns. Adversaries like to try and shoot down aircraft dropping bombs on them, but there is something about knowing there isn't any airplane to try and shoot down while those 16" shells are dropping on you that would give adversaries something to think about. 2000 pounds of 16" shells dropping onto someone is a major way of saying "screw you". |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 1:23:53 PM EDT
[#39]
What percentage of our enemy, more specifically our targetable enemy, is within range of floating 16” guns? Not much, I reckon.
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Posted: 1/7/2024 1:25:57 PM EDT
[#40]
Deep inside the turret where the rollers sit.
 Do the 16in Gun Turrets Still Rotate? |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 1:26:58 PM EDT
[#41]
If by "combat ready" you mean "be an enormous missile sponge" then they are already ready.
If you mean anything other than that then lol. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 3:58:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not that it isn't possible. It's often just less economical than replacement, and at some point it's like a ship of Theseus applied to rebuilding a small pyramid. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't understand why people think it isn't possible to rebuild something that was once built from nothing, or recreate a process or skill set once conjured from nothing, when we probably have recipes, prints, and manuals archived. As for all the skill sets, process engineering isn't that hard. You could certainly throw a trillion dollars at it and build a new ship and pretend it was a BB63. So in that sense, sure it's "possible". In any reasonable sense? no. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 4:05:29 PM EDT
[#43]
 Big Guns - Battleship USS Missouri Shock & Awe |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 4:15:15 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is. I went under a 4000 ton frigate at the shipyard in Yokosuka. Not a battleship but big enough. IIRC, as part of the design and build, they have the blocking points made. The details are available to the shipyards and the blocks are placed while the dock is dry. The ship enters the dock, it's positioned over the blocks then the dock is pumped out. Under normal conditions, a ship isn't likely to come off the blocks and tip. I recall reading that the 1906 San Fransisco earthquake caused a ship to shift on its blocks at Mare Island with a broken keel as the result. A quick search didn't turn anything up. We went under the ship to see the structure, etc, once and after an earthquake, the Chief Engineer and I did a quick look to see if it looked like any slippage or shifting had occurred. We decided it wasn't the place to be considering it was Japan and aftershocks or a larger main shock weren't out of the question. We were wearing out hard hats, though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I wonder how often boats come off the blocks in drydock and squish people. Being under one must be a weird feeling. It is. I went under a 4000 ton frigate at the shipyard in Yokosuka. Not a battleship but big enough. IIRC, as part of the design and build, they have the blocking points made. The details are available to the shipyards and the blocks are placed while the dock is dry. The ship enters the dock, it's positioned over the blocks then the dock is pumped out. Under normal conditions, a ship isn't likely to come off the blocks and tip. I recall reading that the 1906 San Fransisco earthquake caused a ship to shift on its blocks at Mare Island with a broken keel as the result. A quick search didn't turn anything up. We went under the ship to see the structure, etc, once and after an earthquake, the Chief Engineer and I did a quick look to see if it looked like any slippage or shifting had occurred. We decided it wasn't the place to be considering it was Japan and aftershocks or a larger main shock weren't out of the question. We were wearing out hard hats, though. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 4:23:18 PM EDT
[#45]
I will be the bold one here. Without bureaucratic bullshit it would probably only take a few weeks. Lube up the boilers, get the fire control systems on line and personal trained. It's not rocket science. Find a armory that can make the powder bags and shells and let's go.
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Posted: 1/7/2024 4:25:41 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its gun powder and explosive projectiles designed in the 1930s. While the amounts in inventory and their locations are probably sensitive information, its not exactly cutting edge space age chemical engineering. It would be really weird if we don't still have the recipes for the chemicals and prints for the shells archived somewhere, or if anything on them is more complicated than the pot of gumbo I made a couple of days ago. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 6:23:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will be the bold one here. Without bureaucratic bullshit it would probably only take a few weeks. Lube up the boilers, get the fire control systems on line and personal trained. It's not rocket science. Find a armory that can make the powder bags and shells and let's go. Sorry man. I love the nostalgia and it would have been cool to keep one running as a status symbol, but billions of dollars and years of procurement/training/new manufacturing infrastructure. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 6:24:15 PM EDT
[#48]
Refurbing an old BB would be the dumbest use of naval funds. We can do anything we want if we throw money at it. We could even reactivate a BB by spending $30B refurbing and crewing it.
We would be better off building a new yard, designing a new class of nuclear heavy cruisers, and building a few of them for the same money. And then we would have a new yard too. Or better yet, since we have urgent needs, instead take that $30B and build 5 more Burkes, 10 more Constellations, 2 more SSNs, and outfit all the Legend class ships with their "designed for but not with" sensor/weapons. |
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Posted: 1/7/2024 6:38:38 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will be the bold one here. Without bureaucratic bullshit it would probably only take a few weeks. Lube up the boilers, get the fire control systems on line and personal trained. It's not rocket science. Find a armory that can make the powder bags and shells and let's go. What is this "Lube up the boilers" thing? 
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Posted: 1/7/2024 7:04:26 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was an EOOW on a twin 1200psi superheated steam plant DDG. What is this "Lube up the boilers" thing? Salute to my fellow Snipes! Who knows? The fantasy land thinking in this thread is amazing. /old BT on shift in a power plant tonight....6 hours till midrats! |
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