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Posted: 7/27/2024 5:22:03 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have they never seen how much water a suction head barge moves? Set up a bunch of barges off shore. Lay in some 30" discharge pipe and start moving hundreds of thousands of gallons. You could flood out an entire valley like this another option would be to cut a channel from the sea to several tunnels. Line it with 30" steel pipes & let the ocean fill them up like a river. No pumps needed  Flooding Gaza tunnels by Erik Prince Dec. 5, 2023 article |
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Posted: 7/27/2024 6:16:07 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In for the SubT experts. I work with this stuff. It's not necessarily unfeasible given a sufficient quantity of properly sized pumps. The topography means fairly minimal lift is required so the pumps could run close to maximum rated capacity. There's a bit more to it than just calculating the volume of the tunnels; ground porosity means a lot of that water will be absorbed by surrounding soil. The opposite problem is encountered during dewatering - quite a bit of pump capacity is given over to pumping out voids, fractures, and porous ground so the discharge rate is several times the dewatering rate of the target opening. The comments about rain are nonsensical. There's a serious difference between short-duration rain events, buffered by infiltration time, and a sustained pumping campaign. Same for the pumps "not holding out" and "becoming useless". Maintain them properly and have spares on standby. It's not rocket surgery, we do this stuff industrially 24/7/365. It reads like a lack of equipment availability or cash to rent/purchase suitable pumps. |
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Posted: 7/27/2024 8:13:46 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed. My best friend had a bunch of those fuckers infest his pool and they fucked him up bigly one day. You cannot outrun them in the water They aint no joke. WTF! How did he kill them off in a swimming pool? |
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Posted: 7/27/2024 8:25:50 AM EDT
[#4]
I would like to know more about the pumps they used.
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Posted: 7/27/2024 8:33:46 AM EDT
[#5]
Article laments the cost… I bet it was a fraction of the stupid fucking pier we built.
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Posted: 7/27/2024 8:37:33 AM EDT
[#6]
I never liked the idea because they might be flooding a room where captives are kept and killing them in the process.
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Posted: 7/27/2024 8:52:28 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They also aren't all connected in one consistent network. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They say something like 300 miles of tunnels. That's a lot of volume to fill with gas or flood. They also aren't all connected in one consistent network. That and I would guess gassing the tunnels would be viewed as a chemical-warfare atrocity war-crime, and not worth the blow-back. Filling it up with fuel-air and lighting a match would probably be fine though. As would mining it with claymores and trip wires. |
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Posted: 7/27/2024 9:43:39 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was it a matter of Hamas drainage systems? Simply not high enough flow rates to fill the tunnels? Improved tunnel design, equipment issues, failure to listen to the experts they tasked with helping them, not enough ground troops to maintain and protect the pumps and guard the pipeline, and fear they might kill hostages. |
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Posted: 7/27/2024 9:46:53 AM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 7/27/2024 9:48:45 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After pumping it full of smoke so they could look for any entrances/exits and post snipers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Should have filled them with flammable gas and ignited them After pumping it full of smoke so they could look for any entrances/exits and post snipers. The flammable gas would have shown those too, with smoke and fire, or both. |
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Posted: 7/27/2024 9:49:48 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because that would be a lot of work to fill one leg of the system and then still have to worry about hundreds more? Honest question....could you put something in an entrance that blasts 180+ dB and deafen them/drive them mad and just keep gradually moving network to network? I understand there is no one size fits all solution. Wasn't sure if some sort of acoustic attack would work at all but neither is pumping millions of gallons of sea water either |
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Posted: 7/27/2024 9:51:54 AM EDT
[#12]
Sounds like thermobaric weapons would have been better.
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Posted: 7/27/2024 9:58:38 AM EDT
[#13]
Drop in speakers and blast the Islamic call to prayer at about 187 decibels 24/7.
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Posted: 7/27/2024 10:00:12 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honest question....could you put something in an entrance that blasts 180+ dB and deafen them/drive them mad and just keep gradually moving network to network? I understand there is no one size fits all solution. Wasn't sure if some sort of acoustic attack would work at all but neither is pumping millions of gallons of sea water either For the most part it probably would not be effective as you don't know how long that specific leg is, how many doors are able to be sealed within it, how many exits, etc. These aren't typically dirt or rock based rudimentary structures, think subway maintenance tunnels for the most part. |
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Posted: 7/27/2024 10:37:47 AM EDT
[#15]
NVM
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Posted: 7/27/2024 10:42:46 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They say something like 300 miles of tunnels. That's a lot of volume to fill with gas or flood. They would have been further ahead to just blow and collapse them at intervals and mine, boobytrap, and poison the rest. |
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Posted: 7/27/2024 10:52:45 AM EDT
[#17]
Some of the tunnels have to be pretty close to the Mediterranean, coule they just dig a deep canal?
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Posted: 7/27/2024 11:15:21 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Article laments the cost… I bet it was a fraction of the stupid fucking pier we built. Both were about as effective. |
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Posted: 7/27/2024 11:52:32 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I work with this stuff. It's not necessarily unfeasible given a sufficient quantity of properly sized pumps. The topography means fairly minimal lift is required so the pumps could run close to maximum rated capacity. There's a bit more to it than just calculating the volume of the tunnels; ground porosity means a lot of that water will be absorbed by surrounding soil. The opposite problem is encountered during dewatering - quite a bit of pump capacity is given over to pumping out voids, fractures, and porous ground so the discharge rate is several times the dewatering rate of the target opening. The comments about rain are nonsensical. There's a serious difference between short-duration rain events, buffered by infiltration time, and a sustained pumping campaign. Same for the pumps "not holding out" and "becoming useless". Maintain them properly and have spares on standby. It's not rocket surgery, we do this stuff industrially 24/7/365. It reads like a lack of equipment availability or cash to rent/purchase suitable pumps. All that water in the sandstone just seems like it would wreak hell on things with the erosion. With the mass of tunnels they have, and levels . Incorporating air doors. I would be looking for the bean holes to surface for ventilation. What would be problematic is if in their decline for water storage they mined into a huge void of some sort. Think crystal caverns that they were diverting the water to. Sure would be interesting to see their as built map . |
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Posted: 7/27/2024 12:21:20 PM EDT
[#20]
underground nuclear testing would have been a better plan. or an up-armored tunnel boring machine
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Posted: 7/27/2024 12:57:01 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Use those seismec thumpers they use to sound for oil and just keep driving down the length of the tunnel. Guessing eventually whoever is in there will come out, deaf or dead. Doesn't matter. |
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Posted: 7/27/2024 2:52:14 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can some tldr this for some of us. 
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Posted: 7/27/2024 9:13:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Sewage water. Poop be upon them. |
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Posted: 7/28/2024 5:37:09 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There have been shorter novels written. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Can some tldr this for some of us. Apparently a massive tunnel network in gaza , used by the terrorists (I e., anyone from Gaza - which seems mostly true - considering the degree of support the Oct murders got). Israel thought they could flood them, to deny the enemy the resource. But no, the extent, volume, and engineering (drainage, doors, multilevel network), made that not work at all. Israel gives up. Tunnels currently remain. AR15.com minds ponder alternative solutions. |
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