See the big post I just made.

I spent almost 30 years in the community.

I’ve been retired almost a decade but the USASOC Flight Det was 50% Rolex and plenty of team guys had or were drooling over getting a Rolex.
The price point shift over the decades changed things, issue watches, the Swiss watch Renaissance, Japanese brands, tech advances, etc. all had some input on change.

Assuming it's an aspirational purchase is my whole point. I don't understand where that's coming from. Everybody enjoys different things. Claiming it's cosplay and aspirational is pretty dumb.

The funny part is the majority of people I know wearing rolexes received them as professional gifts. Most people I know with a nice watch they purchased did a lot of research and wound up with something different.

When you are a something, the subtle marketing and social pressure to wear what a something would purportedly wear just has to be a lot less effective. This would apply even to those who regularly interact with whatever type of "cool guy" as well and see the reality.

And, can we all just sit back an appreciate the implication of the fact there are websites devoted to helping men be more like "James Bond?" How sites like that can exist and yet people still push back so hard at the "cosplay" observation (though "cool guy" doesn't always fully overlap with "rich guy") is just beyond me.

One aspect people don’t understand about their phone, smart watch, digital, etc. regards this.

A friend of mine about your age remembers going to the PX with his mom and Dad and his dad, a new Navy lieutenant, getting a 1675 befofre heady to VN where he flew Phantoms.  When my friend finished flight school his Dad gave him the 1675 and bought a new one. He flew Phantoms until they were retired.  When his son became an Air Force pilot he gave him the freshly service 1675 and bought a new 16700.  His grandson recent became a pilot.  His son gave him the 1675 and got a rash of crap for how much he had to spend on a new one for his own.

The watch is currently on the wrist of a military pilot, and also served in Iraq, Afghanistan, desert storm, Cold War, and VN on the wrist of his father, grandfather, and great-grandfather.

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In honor of this thread, my $30 timex, which I’m pretty sure made it through The Basic School in Quantico, a couple of years as a Marine Tank Officer, the fire academy, Army flight school, and was most recently hanging on my ALSE vest on a deployment before being retired in place of my Garmin.

I think I got my money’s worth.

Yeah.  There is definitely a rich history in certain communities that seem to not exist among some.

Each of these watches have been on my wrist since the 80s and 90s.
They have jumped out of planes, into the ocean, under the ocean, been on objectives with TICs, wounded, dead, etc.












Not a lot of things have that decades of being with you.

Nah. I’m going far. And I live large. I just try not to look the part in public or at kids school functions and such.  I do t try to look like a tool or anything. I’m most just me 100% of the time I guess.

I’ve spent years listening to friends who own service companies talk about bumping up prices and making other absurd comments like “oh that guys loaded he’ll pay whatever I want to bill”.  Not a huge fan of that dynamic.

I’m on vacation or traveling months out of a year, and do a huge number of expensive hobbies. Just not that I retested in playing the social status game. You meet some really empty and outright nuts people in that game. I hate drama and place great effort on not inviting more into my life than is necessary.

I’m now going to refer to my wife’s salary in terms of Submariners per month.

You’re kind of not quite getting the timeline point I was trying to make.
In, say, 1969 the norm for people in those communities was, say, a Rolex, a Randall knife, etc.
In 1989 you still did as well, but with the changing price points a Seiko 6309 and a Ka-Bar or Gerber had become way more common.
The ever increasing price point meant that in 1999 to 2009-
Those traditions were becoming thinner and thinner with the younger guys.
An issue hockey puck or marathon and Nimravus were probably seen way more.

I remember being around 40 and I was rolling out on a TST from my Tier with a group including a couple of others. Over a dozen years ago.
I had an old school auto diver on the wrist and a Randall on the belt.  The troop SGM was like- “nice watch and knife” as he glanced at the majority of guys with hockey pucks and knives of newer design.  I glanced at the Glocks on the rest of his troop then fixed my eyes on his hip and said “nice .45.”  
Two guys from different units, an O5 and E9 that had each enlisted in the middle of the 80s, conveying a mountain of thought and information in half a dozen words.  

We may have both looked thirty and could hit the little gym and out muscle up and bench most of a bunch of rangers half our age-
But the reality was we were both pushing 25 years into the game and both products of traditions/affectations set for/instilled into us by preceding  generations and that were only lingering in a shadow of their former representation.

Some of this is driven by price point.
How many E5 Rangers, SEALs, etc. can run out and buy a Rolex Sub and Randall knife now compared to one in 1968?
How many brand new O1 pilots and run out a grab a GMT and a corvette now compared to 1988, let alone 1968?
Same with a new college grad architect or engineer in 1968 vs now.

Some is driven by tech.  Nobody is diving with just an auto diver.  The other features on some watches are handy.  

No boat?

Shame

So,
The another point I want to make is just about Rolex as a company.
I’ll paste my point that I typed in the other thread.

There is a lot of butt hurt in this thread, but at the end of the day step back and look at Rolex as a company.

It is a brand that is the epitome of success.

They were a true, old school, successful company.
Plank owners in the first generation of the golden age of dive and tool watches.

They make every piece.

They earned a reputation of reliability, dependability, and durability.

When the time came to capture a lower price point market, they did not put their name on a cheaper product and lower their market point.

They created a sub brand.  That became renown in its own right.

They were innovators in durable tool watch evolution and development.

Over decades they developed a desirable reputation and allure.
These were watches worn by the sky diving petroleum engineer, the anthropology professor in the mountains and jungles of South America, the journalist on a mountaineering expedition, the pilot that had been an Olympic skier in college, etc.

It was brilliant.  And these men also bought them for their wives, girlfriends, mistresses, etc.  They gave them to their sons for graduation presents.  The most tip of the spear adventurers and professionals bought them.

Then, as high quality but less expensive Asian labor rose its head, AND quartz arose to make accuracy available at a much lower price point-
Swiss companies were dropping market share and profits faster than the dress of a fat, drunk chick at Prom.

Around 75% of people in the industry lost their jobs.  This arm of the third industrial revolution laid waste to traditional Swiss watchmaking.  Tons of companies folded.  Alliances that had been formed in response to the Great Depression and flourished for decades we’re on the ropes.  And combined together.  And barely hung on with plastic cased quartz watches production.

Yet during this Rolex remained independent.
And…
Responded by leveraging their existing reputation into one of success and luxury.  Increasing price, market share, and production.  It was brilliant and elegant.

Over the past four decades as watches that can store data, be a calculator, be a dive computer, altimeter, barometer, thermometer, compass, text, make calls, etc. have progressed, and apple entering in the last decade or so as we near the end of the digital revolution as we are on the cusp of the next revolution as we shift from bits to quantum,

What has happened to Rolex?  Are they losing market share as a merry go round of failed CEOs cycle in and out, are share holders screaming to put their name on anything to increase quarterly profit reports, are they watching market share tumble?

Nope.
The private, family foundation is pulling in eight to 13 Billion Swiss Francs a year while putting out a million watches and employing around 30K people.

And demand far outpacing availability.

Are they chasing every little fashion whim and trend to keep up popularity?
Nope.  Their most sought after models are significantly similar in appearance to models from the 50s/60s.

It is an amazing company.



Another interesting tidbit.
Let’s switch to humor and entertainment mode.
Have you seen the picture of the military doctor with the tongue depressor and light doing a physical on Saddam Hussein back in 2003?

Anyways, that doc was an 11B from like 1978 to 1986 in Ranger Bn.  He got out, used the GI Bill, went to college, then graduated from medical school around 1994.  He did internship than was a doc in an SF Bn then an instructor at their schoolhouse before doing his ER residency.

See that digital Casio watch with the broken band taped up on his wrist?
At one point in time the a few years before that the band broke on his watch and he taped it up.
It’s entirely possible I was among a group of people giving him a rash of shit for being a cheap bastard and to at least drop 20 bucks on a new band, or get his old Seiko diver serviced and relumed (it had quit running after about 25 years)  or get a new Seiko SKX for about- either would cost about 150 bucks. Nlet alone splurge on a Rolex.
For God’s sake, you get doctor bonuses, quit being the world’s cheapest bastard.  
The contrarian SOB said he would never replace it now.
We said-
Someday you’ll be a famous and world renown cheap bastard.

.   Exactly!  Thank you.

How many are we talking?     After tax net bank deposits, of course.  
..
use US Retail pricing, even if it’s not entirely practical, keeps things honest and standard.

Great post.

Wonderful story, but I immediately flashed to the watch scene in Pulp Fiction.



*edit was too late

Wife salaries should be expressed in Birkin bags per month, since they are the Rolex of the women’s world per a previous post in this thread.

While all interesting, I think it's worthwhile to step back and remember this started about a young guys saving money to buy a watch to show [themselves?] they "made it" or some such.

And we all know a military doc won't start being able to make real money until he retires. Active duty military are the last people who should be trying to flex the income thing. There pay is extremely easy to figure out, and not exactly up where anyone should be buying a watch in excess of 1 grand unless they just really, really like the watch for the watch's sake.

In the timeline you mention, it's been as these watches become less and less characteristic of units and men like this, that the marketing to salesman and such often based on that now out-dated image has gone into overdrive.

Patek Philippe has taken it even further, basically telling middle aged men they are buying a legacy to pass down to their kids. These brands depend on those old stories, even as the type of people who are buying them has changed significantly.

I think that's why the "investment" angle has been played up more lately. Patek actually got caught driving up the resell price of their watches to creat marketing buzz. Not sure if Rolex has been caught but I can't help but be reminded of my reaction to the steroid scandal in baseball, which was to wonder why nobody is asking about the NFL.

It's infinitely easier to save up and buy a watch then to spend a lifetime becoming the kind of person who can influence others to buy a watch just by wearing it.

Women's fashion is far more tumultuous and ephemeral than men's fashion, as the latter is often all about conveying a sense of permanence (even if disingenuous).

My kid's daycare was a grey market dated sub a year.... or AD Gold Sub. Or Transferrable MP5....

Now it's down to a stainless sub from an AD. Still a kick in a dick and a big reason I don't have a rolex/boat/cabin yet

The vast majority of the people who think they know what a Rolex looks like wouldn't recognize any Rolex that wasn't a Submariner.

Hermès has been around longer than Rolex.  I wouldn’t call them ephemeral.

I really didn't know how popular Rolex watches were with hitters until I started following @watchesofespinoage and @watchesandwarfighters on IG. I'd say they're more popular now than G-Shock in that regard lol.

Diamond studded President with matching President bracelet is where it's at.

Decadent capitalist pig dogs!

Now that's tacky.

But exactly what I would expect from an... Inner party member.

Understood..

Keep in mind 25 years ago a doc getting bonuses and flight and jump pay and stuff was getting about 220K a year total.  
About like 400K in today’s dollars.  More than enough for a 4K Rolex then, let alone a 150 bucks for a Seiko diver.  He was just a cheap bastard.
It’s all part of the tradition being eroded by the price point shifts to the right over the decade, and a prime example of how buying a Rolex or a Randall in that community is not a flex, it’s part of the history and tradition.

Regardless, I find mechanical watches interesting as well as the history and tradition interesting.
And lived through some of it.  So I will drift in that direction vs some nonsense about making it.

There is definitely some switch people have about demonstrative conspicuous consumerism vs quality/tradition.
A big difference say, between the guy that buys a Toyota LC or Range Rover to let everyone know he has a 100K vehicle, vs the guy that loved nature and adventure  shows with them when he was a kid, etc.

He apparently lives in a large shop building with a new kitchen in it, too.

I wonder if his son, Justin, wears those watches on special occasions.

I used to think that Rolex and a few Swiss watch makers were all that had the self winding watches...

Come to find out - you can get a movement cheap  llike 30 bucks.....- and lots of people have them.

I am rocking out my $260.00 Seiko Land Tortoise in Blue - gains about 7 seconds a day or about 2 mins +/- a month!  I hit the e-bay watch lottery!

YMMV

Red

It’s tacky for sure, but allegedly, he wore two, so he could be sure they were accurate.  Kind of cowitnessing your red dot and irons.

I have similar story with my watches, Submariner included. Decades long. My diamond grillz, though, are forever.

I have no words…

Enjoy.

Not in clown world:
https://phys.org/news/2011-07-scientific-reveals-diamonds-arent.html

This thread makes me glad that the century+ old tradition of railroaders carrying a pocket watch finally died out. They certainly had their time and place, but I can’t imagine still being beholden to some traditional obligation to pay extravagantly more for a less capable timepiece.

I don’t know.. I recently spilled coffee on mine somewhere over the North Atlantic and it held up just fine..although my crossword puzzle was totally ruined.

Seems pretty durable to me

So one thing that I think is worth mentioning is the simple enduring factor of these types of watches. Of course an Apple Watch is far more useful, and it’s what I wear 90% of the time… but you aren’t passing down an Apple Watch to your kids. I don’t think it’s too weird to want to have something that you can pass down through generations.

My father is super frugal despite making good money all his life. He isn’t cheap by any means, but has zero desire for luxury things, isn’t into guns or any other hobby that allows you to collect things. It’s definitely crossed my mind that when he dies there is literally nothing of his that I would have any reason to keep.

Now, I get that it isn’t why most people probably buy a sub, but I think it’s a pretty valid thought process. YMMV.

Some gun people set up trusts and buy ridiculously overbuilt suppressors, so they have something their unborn children can use.  This is despite the fact that suppressors are wear items.  It’s at least a very common thought process.

The longest I know in daily use by the same family is is pushing 60 years of use.

Now, how long digital will cut it I’m not sure.
High quality analog quartz can usually be serviced, or replaced with a new, close enough movement.  
But digital and dual display-
At some point the display passes on.
Good if you have a new movement, lost if you don’t.

Although, to be honest-
We already have some fairly nascent ABS plastic and additive metal printing for home users.
In another decade or two-
The combination of ABS and other polymers, additive metal printing, etc. ,
With maybe some relatively low heat replacement for silicate like glass replacement,
Printing out complete new modules might be in the works.

The first watch on the moon was an Omega Speedmaster. That is a matter of recorded history.

I don't know what the first watch on Mars is going to be. I expect it to be a smart watch of some sort. But that would be one heck of an achievement for whatever company makes it...

Or perhaps human civilization kills itself before that happens and all this talk about watches and for that matter all of our accomplishments will become nothing more than curiosities and reference data for some other form of life.

The post about military, particularly officers, not being able to afford a Sub made me laugh. My wife worked for a FL community college, and I was a TSgt. Two incomes, no kids, we maxed our investment plan every year without fail and bought my $4K Sub with zero stretch. Nothing "aspirational" about it, it was a gift. I liked Bond, and the wife thought it looked great. Hell, I bought a brand new BMW Z3 3.0 the following year and gave my LtCol commander (who lived in my neighborhood) a ride home one day. He got out of the Z, looked at me and said, "How do you live like this? What am I doing wrong?" He was being funny, of course, he had three teenage boys. Not a mystery. His wife told me later I was a bad influence on him

Point is, civilians always badly underestimate military compensation based on the basic pay tables. There are a host of other pays, and some deployments and TDYs pay extremely well if you have a little discipline. Lots of junior enlisted came back from the Gulf Wars and paid cash for new cars...BMW, Lexus and the ever-popular Mustangs. They didn't have the first bit of retirement investment, but there was no talking them out of it, of course.

As for the military Rolex mystique, this is kind of a cool story, and true. Our next door neighbor in Florida was a (single, gay) realtor who lived with his very elderly mother. He was probably in his mid-50s, nice guy. His father, deceased, had been the first commander of the Thunderbirds when the team was stood up. Each of the pilots was given a "Thunderbird" dialed Rolex by the factory to mark the occasion, and as commander and team lead he was given a special edition of the same watch. When I bought my Sub, Steve let me have a look at dad's watch, which lived in a drawer in that fairly modest neighborhood. Wish I had gotten a photo, because I've searched but never seen it again since. Rolex had contacted him several times with very generous offers to buy it back - they wanted it for their museum. He refused to sell, because the sentimental value outweighed whatever they were offering. I should have burgled his house, God knows what the watch is worth now.

Richard Hammond of Top Gear/Grand Tour had crashed a Rimac EV, it burned up with his Rolex in it but the Rolex survived.

Rolex survives EV crash and burn

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Up until recently I wasn't either. But good attempt, guess you missed that previous shot flying with the Red Arrows.
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Wow, still working after the fire.

the interwebs says he wears an IWC.

Looks like the cyclops fell off in the heat. This is exactly why no-date subs are the better choice.