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Link Posted: 11/6/2019 12:55:57 PM EST
[#1]
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Lenin and Stalin were Inter-Nationalists, in that the purpose of the Communist revolution was to promote international communism rather than elevate a single country.  The many different countries/nations were absorbed into the "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics," which was not a single nation so much as an empire ruled by the Communist Party.  As an example, Stalin wasn't even Russian.
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Has there ever been a communist leader who was NOT a nationalist???

I can't think of any.
Lenin and Stalin were Inter-Nationalists, in that the purpose of the Communist revolution was to promote international communism rather than elevate a single country.  The many different countries/nations were absorbed into the "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics," which was not a single nation so much as an empire ruled by the Communist Party.  As an example, Stalin wasn't even Russian.
You obvousily didn't read the links in what RDak quoted.

Try reading the National delimitation in the Soviet Union one.
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 1:42:56 PM EST
[#2]
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 2:39:55 PM EST
[#3]
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The USSR was a "nation."
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Planet Earth is a "nation."
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 2:44:05 PM EST
[#4]
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The USSR was a "nation."
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It was a group of different nations.  Poland, east Germany, Romania, Ukraine, etc.

Poland and Germany can never be one nation because they have different people.

When you get rid of the Polish nation you are essentially getting rid of those people who compose it - the Polish.  Go ahead get rid of Polish people and call it Poland but it isn't.

That's the point.
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 3:01:58 PM EST
[#5]
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Lenin and Stalin were Inter-Nationalists, in that the purpose of the Communist revolution was to promote international communism rather than elevate a single country.  The many different countries/nations were absorbed into the "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics," which was not a single nation so much as an empire ruled by the Communist Party.  As an example, Stalin wasn't even Russian.
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Well that is true that they were most definitely for expansion and did expand into the USSR by absorbing territories they felt were their natural "holdings" but they were still very nationalistic once that was achieved IMHO.

Wasn't Hitler the same way for all intents and purposes.....?
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 4:14:03 PM EST
[#6]
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 4:17:34 PM EST
[#7]
I am a Southern nationalist, does necessarily mean secession but it is a Southern nation within the American Republic.  The United States is not a nation.
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 4:18:57 PM EST
[#8]
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 4:19:42 PM EST
[#9]
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 4:23:29 PM EST
[#10]
Pan- whatevarism is nationalist. Like Pan-Africanism.  Or Pan-Arabism. Any type of identityism basically. It's all a claim to exclusiveness.
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 4:28:58 PM EST
[#11]
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Was President Lincoln a nationalist?
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He fought to keep the states together in a union.
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 4:33:42 PM EST
[#12]
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You can tell that the media has gotten a hold on this term.  People here cannot agree to a definition of the term in order to even debate the merits or lack thereof.

It seems that many cannot see the term nationalist without considering racial or ethnic considerations.

Over the years, I've seen terms like "White Nationalist," "Black Nationalist" etc.  The functional aspect of those terms is the racial component in front of the term with the notion that the racial homogeneous aspect would be the unifying factor.  It is a valid notion, but it is far too limiting.

I'd argue that any group of people regardless of ethnic origin may be nationalist.

According to Merriam-Webster, nationalism is defined as:

-Loyalty and devotion to a nation

-A sense of national consciousness

-Exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups .


Not a single word in any of that references "race."  It says a nation.  The USA is a "nation" full of many races.

To go a little further, Encyclopedia Britannica describes nationalism as an "ideology based on the premise that the individual’s loyalty and devotion to the nation-state surpass other individual or group interests."

Again, nothing regarding race.

I've seen posts here that state that we are not using the "Historical" definition of nationalism.  According to whom?  Even in this country, we have VERY different definitions of words according to different regions. Hell... right now, just being White, Male, Christian, and Hetrosexual is considered automatically the definition of being an oppressor (see Cultural Marxism.)

According to what I would call credible sources cited above, I have no fault in the definition of nationalism, and I see no ill in being considered a nationalist.  If you have a different definition of nationalism, perhaps you should lobby those credible sources to reflect your definition.

I used to consider myself a nationalist.  In some aspects, I still am.  However, I naively believed that there was enough "American" cultural and unity that we could be cohesively a functional entity.  I don't feel that anymore.  The reality is that there are such wide divergences in vision and opinion of what it means to be "American" that no cohesive common ground can be found.  At this point, the strongest tie that binds us together is air conditioning.

I still advocate that we MUST put the interests of our nation above the interest of other nations.  However, these days, I am more of a tribalist.  I know my tribe.  They know me.  They share my values, and my vision.  I know what to expect of them, and they me.

I guess that old saying "All politics is local" has deeper roots than just policy.  For me, I will place the interests of my local community-- specifically those I interact with above anything else.   I have given up on the idea that we can maintain identity and purpose beyond that.
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You need to look up the root of nation.

And how do you explain the Indian Nation?
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 4:35:04 PM EST
[#13]
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 4:36:40 PM EST
[#14]
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Were they not?

Hitler was insane. You understand this right? He was a "nationalist" like Westboro Baptist Church are "Christians".
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It's the president's JOB to be a nationalist. That goes for the congress as well. Every single domestic action they take should qualify as nationalistic.
So Nationalism is a function of the Government?
Duty.
And what principles guide these duties, as they are executed by Nancy Pelosi?
What principles? Nationalism has a definition. Her actions are either in the nation's interest or not. Open borders is not. Welfare for illegal aliens is not. Weakening the military (in more ways than just the funding) is not. Constantly threatening your 2A rights is not.
If a majority in this Nation amended the Constitution to eliminate the 2nd Amendment, then banning guns would be "in the nation's interests."

If that majority made it National Policy to provide Welfare to illegal aliens, then that THAT TOO would be "in the nation's interests," and a good Nationalist would support his Nation's policies.

Erdogan is a Nationalist.  Putin is a Nationalist.
No. Those who oppose them would be nationalists.
So then the Germans who plotted to kill Hitler were the REAL Nationalists?
Were they not?

Hitler was insane. You understand this right? He was a "nationalist" like Westboro Baptist Church are "Christians".
Pan-Germanism was a thing long before Hitler came into the picture. One of the driving elements of WW I.
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 4:39:57 PM EST
[#15]
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. Birth. Casinos
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You need to look up the root of nation.
. Birth.


And how do you explain the Indian Nation?
Casinos
Tribes didn't have casinos until the white man introduced the fire water and capitalism.
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 5:13:18 PM EST
[#16]
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 5:14:06 PM EST
[#17]
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My banana bread is a nation.
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Link Posted: 11/6/2019 5:34:41 PM EST
[#18]
OP misspelled "nihilist".
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 6:02:54 PM EST
[#19]
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And it gave a purpose to their nationhood.
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You need to look up the root of nation.
. Birth.


And how do you explain the Indian Nation?
Casinos
Tribes didn't have casinos until the white man introduced the fire water and capitalism.
And it gave a purpose to their nationhood.
A new purpose. But a purpose nonetheless. And proves out how well capitalism works.
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 9:59:49 PM EST
[#20]
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Lenin and Stalin were Inter-Nationalists, in that the purpose of the Communist revolution was to promote international communism rather than elevate a single country.  The many different countries/nations were absorbed into the "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics," which was not a single nation so much as an empire ruled by the Communist Party.  As an example, Stalin wasn't even Russian.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Has there ever been a communist leader who was NOT a nationalist???

I can't think of any.
Lenin and Stalin were Inter-Nationalists, in that the purpose of the Communist revolution was to promote international communism rather than elevate a single country.  The many different countries/nations were absorbed into the "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics," which was not a single nation so much as an empire ruled by the Communist Party.  As an example, Stalin wasn't even Russian.
Lenin’s major twist on Marxist theory was that Moscow, ruled by Russians, was to be the Vanguard for the world Communist movement and thus creating an excuse for a super Russian nationalism around what was ostensibly a movement to get society beyond such things. The counterpart to Americanism as a nation building model in the US was sovietization in the USSR, and the inculcation of a Soviet identity. Somehow, this always meant Russian speaking, Russian led, fealty to the Kremlin. Nothing pissed off our believed Communist “internationalists” more than when another country espousing Marx and claiming buy in to the Revolution refused to bend the knee to the Kremlin. See China. See Yugoslavia.

A more modern example of Communism being an excuse and enabler of a sort of hyper-nationalism is China. Even before their modern nationalist packaging, China’s behavior toward Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam echoed the USSR’s behavior toward their own Communist periphery.

Stalin, for a Georgian, became one of the better examples of the USSR becoming a tool for Russian nationalism. He reverse many of the nationalization (koronization, or “roots building”) policies of the 1920s and really pushed a pseudo-imperialist Russian domination strategy throughout the USSR. Within a generation, schools that had been built to teach carefully developed curriculum to teach a sense of Kazakh or Tuvu national identity, began strongly to focus on Russian language, literature, and history. It was under Stalin that the USSR became an imperial colonial power in all but name. It is impossible to sum up the identity formation and competing identity theories of the Soviet era in a few sentences, but if we are going to accept that Americanism is a form of nationalism, one has to accept that Sovietization under the rule of Moscow was just as nationalist as it wasn’t - a competing nationalism, of you will.

To date, many left-leaning anthropologists and other social scientists seem to have a hard time studying other ethnic groups in Russia or the former Soviet Union using the terms and models of colonialism and post colonialism.

I can’t help but wonder if Stalin’s answer to the “why” would be like so many here when caught in a bind between their expressed political values and actual policy support. “The Constitution is not a suicide pact.”

Regardless though, as made much earlier in this thread, the key question related to nationalism is how the espoused of such a view defines that nation. It says to reason that any serious nationalist movement, then, would have to have others joining in who see things the same way.
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 10:03:16 PM EST
[#21]
We're certainly the strongest country and the best place to live, especially if you love guns but are we doing enough to stay the best?  Tearing ourselves apart doesn't seem to work.  What I'm saying is Love thy reachable Liberal neighbor.  He/She is a recreational, home defense, CCW shooter just waiting to break out.

I'll do my part to Love my reachable Conservative, Conspiracy theorizing nutball neighbors.

Can't we all get along?
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 10:06:38 PM EST
[#22]
Nationalism isn't a bad word for most peoples around the world, especially non-Western people who are often baffled at our own self deprecation and desire to undermine our own history, accomplishments, ancestors, etc. Most non-Western communist movements were also nationalistic ironically enough.
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 11:14:52 PM EST
[#23]
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OP misspelled "nihilist".
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"ni·hil·ist
/'ni?l?st,'ne?list,'nihilist/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: nihilist; plural noun: nihilists

a person who believes that life is meaningless and rejects all religious and moral principles."

I don't see your point.
Link Posted: 11/7/2019 1:24:51 AM EST
[#24]
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Quoted:
Nationalism isn't a bad word for most peoples around the world, especially non-Western people who are often baffled at our own self deprecation and desire to undermine our own history, accomplishments, ancestors, etc. Most non-Western communist movements were also nationalistic ironically enough.
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Worldwide, no form of nationalism can be divorced from the history of those who also espoused was he same. It’s not about good or bad, it’s about the disingenuousness or ignorance demonstrated by this who think they can just assert such, in America, without qualifying their meaning when it is otherwise vary ambiguous and loaded with a complex history. You can’t just blame any misunderstanding or association of the concept with the way others have used or understood it in the recent past is the fault of the media, the Left, the Colonel, or maybe the Reptilians.
Link Posted: 11/7/2019 1:38:49 PM EST
[#25]
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I am a nationalist.  I happen to be a minority.  I am 100% God first, then America.

I don't care what color your skin happens to be, if you love America we are brothers.
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this
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