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Posted: 2/28/2019 12:43:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK, you just used the example of "I don't want to be in a store with a Great Dane. One stole my sandwich once." and referred to the Dane as a "beast". While I am not a fan of every fucking thing under the sun becoming some sort of "service animal"...at all... and I understand the abuse of the system that is happening, I would be very weary of using your personal preferences to make these decisions in a professional capacity. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 12:44:55 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@Terlinguachili If someone with your "approval" got kicked out of a restaurant with their "service" animal, would the restaurant be in violation of ADA laws? Edit: I've worked multiple cases of the above. I've never heard of someone "signing off" on legitimate service animal certifications until your post today. Breeds hold no bearing, but only dogs and in some cases horses are defined as service animals.The animal can can be self trained to perform disability assistance tasks and self identified. Two questions may be asked by employers of any covered entity - one that makes goods or services available to the public. If the answers to those questions meet the requirements, barring, excluding or restricting access in any way unless it fundamentally alters the nature of the business, opens the business to action spurred by a complaint to the DOJ or state civil rights bodies, The cost of dealing with a complaint isn't trivial, even when no probable cause is found from the investigation. The law is written in a way that easily allows owners to answer both questions In a way which places the onus on employees and businesses to make determinations from limited information. Which, if wrong, can cost serious money. Which is why most entities make no attempt to combat the abuse of access - the juice ain't worth the squeeze. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 12:52:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you’re a medical professional and have to deal with this, you seriously need to educate yourself. You don’t have to approve of anything, but you owe it to your patients to know what the hell the law is and what the various categories of animal are, and what an ESA letter is vs a service dog. You should be embarrassed about your willful ignorance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: You provide a letter over your signature. The problem is that professionals are signing off on untrained animals- chickens, ferrets, you name it. I’m not participating in this lunacy. Wiki says it simply: A service dog is a term used in the USA to refer to any type of assistance dog specifically trained to help people who have disabilities, such as visual impairment, hearing impairments, mental disorders, seizures, mobility impairment, and diabetes. I understand what you are saying. I know the law well enough to say I am not likely to see someone who really needs either a service or emotional support animal so you can drop your ethical concerns. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 12:59:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@Terlinguachili If someone with your "approval" got kicked out of a restaurant with their "service" animal, would the restaurant be in violation of ADA laws? Edit: I've worked multiple cases of the above. I've never heard of someone "signing off" on legitimate service animal certifications until your post today. But I reserve the discretion to affix my signature to anything like this. A chicken or bull mastiff weren’t required for his needs. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 1:02:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can sign off based on the person’s need. I am not an animal trainer, You guys are telling me the mastiff is sweet. Fine. I accept your experience. But I don’t want to give service dog status to some untrained animal or really any animal so you can then fly with it or go to a restaurant. Nobody can challenge service dog status. I’m not giving somebody cover for that. 
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Posted: 2/28/2019 1:04:52 PM EDT
[#6]
I think the OP is full of his own self-importance. OP subjectively decided that a Mastiff mix is not a suitable service dog.
I submit that blacks and gays are unsuitable to own service dogs. That is my professional opinion. Prove me wrong. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 1:07:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Verifying there is a medical or rehabilitative need for the animal. "Signing off" on the person, not the animal. But I reserve the discretion to affix my signature to anything like this. A chicken or bull mastiff weren't required for his needs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
@Terlinguachili If someone with your "approval" got kicked out of a restaurant with their "service" animal, would the restaurant be in violation of ADA laws? Edit: I've worked multiple cases of the above. I've never heard of someone "signing off" on legitimate service animal certifications until your post today. But I reserve the discretion to affix my signature to anything like this. A chicken or bull mastiff weren't required for his needs. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 1:10:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the OP is full of his own self-importance. OP subjectively decided that a Mastiff mix is not a suitable service dog. I submit that blacks and gays are unsuitable to own service dogs. That is my professional opinion. Prove me wrong. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 1:19:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it is in fact a "service animal" and not an "assistance animal" (HUD) or ESA (ACAA), your "certification" isnt necessary. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 1:35:17 PM EDT
[#10]
I'm really confused because there is no such thing as a service dog license at least Federally.
Mike |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 1:35:31 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 2/28/2019 1:49:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exactly. I don’t want to put a public accommodation or conveyance in that position. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can sign off based on the person’s need. I am not an animal trainer, You guys are telling me the mastiff is sweet. Fine. I accept your experience. But I don’t want to give service dog status to some untrained animal or really any animal so you can then fly with it or go to a restaurant. Nobody can challenge service dog status. I’m not giving somebody cover for that. Edit fixed typos. His point is accurate. It’s dangerous to challenge a person with an animal that they are claiming is a service animal. Lawsuits are a very real threat. ETA: It’s common to have someone try to pass off a support dog as a service dog. I don’t want to lose my job over being wrong. This really seems like an overblown issue. First off, since ONLY dogs and miniature horses are ADA protected service animals, you know immediately that any other species is NOT a service animal just by observation. No questions needed. Secondly, the law specifically and clearly gives you to ability to ask the questions. Third, if an animal is actually a problem (out of control or not housebroken), they can be kicked out EVEN IF IT'S A LEGITIMATE SERVICE ANIMAL! |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 1:51:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/10195/863A37EE-1AB5-45E9-98A9-A812584D938C_jpeg-860669.JPG Max says you need to chill. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 2:28:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Since it sounds like the OP refused to sign off on a letter that said the PERSON needed a emotional support animal, I'm good with that.
There's really no need for it in the first place, unless the person has some other angle, like getting an agency to pay for a pet/ESA or something like that. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 2:32:09 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote History90% of people seeing this will "AAAWWWWWWWWW...."
10% will see the drool. 
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Posted: 2/28/2019 3:00:13 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
wait, is bimba a dog or a woman? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/234818/1346141f-8ec2-4545-ba25-09e9013010f7_zpscdd11a89-605281.jpg |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 4:29:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
90% of people seeing this will "AAAWWWWWWWWW...." 10% will see the drool. Quote HistoryQuoted:
90% of people seeing this will "AAAWWWWWWWWW...."
10% will see the drool.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 4:33:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Ah, so OP is that guy who enables people to have pets in apartment buildings that don't allow pets without medical approval.
That's cool I guess. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 4:39:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honestly, I'm over the whole damned service dog thing. Out of the gazillion people I know that have their dog licensed, only 1 truly needs it, he lost his wife and his son, he's a fucking mess and has a super obedient friendly mini pinscher with him 24/7. I don't fault you for not granting a mastiff or any other dog. 
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Posted: 2/28/2019 4:48:24 PM EDT
[#20]
I've read through this and I still don't understand what the OP is on about.
What is your profession OP? Doctor? Shrink? DMV clerk? I'm so confused... |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 4:57:22 PM EDT
[#21]
Due to a complication with my shoulder, I do have a prescription for a Service dog, and my bullmastiff was an amazing service dog.
She would alert if I was about to pass out and was trained to physically move me if I passed out somewhere that was unsafe |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 5:04:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Due to a complication with my shoulder, I do have a prescription for a Service dog, and my bullmastiff was an amazing service dog. She would alert if I was about to pass out and was trained to physically move me if I passed out somewhere that was unsafe This thread is weird. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 5:10:48 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You got a narcalepsy service animal because you had shoulder problems? This thread is weird. Also, had is past tense, which is wrong, it's never going to stop being an issue. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 5:14:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just curious, could you sign off if it was a Great Dane? I'm a Verizon installer so I get to deal with a lot of different breeds. Probably dealt with about 15 mastiffs, only 1 was shady, not aggressive but so nervous I'm sure it would bite if it felt cornered. I've dealt with probably 50 Great Danes, haven't found a bad one yet, but my god will their bark scare you. They're fun dogs, face usually planted right by mine while I am working. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 5:17:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seeing that I DO pass out if I move my shoulder wrong, the doctor thought it was a good idea. Also, had is past tense, which is wrong, it's never going to stop being an issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You got a narcalepsy service animal because you had shoulder problems? This thread is weird. Also, had is past tense, which is wrong, it's never going to stop being an issue.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 5:24:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People can (and do) sue over anything and everything. We (all of us) practice some level of risk assessment daily. We are constantly doing and saying things that open us up to complaints or lawsuits. We balance everything out and decide on a course of action. The law clearly gives us the legal ability to screen ADA service animals. Can any of the folks worrying about service dogs cite a statistically relevant number of cases (or even any case) where the feds went after someone for asking the ADA questions??? This really seems like an overblown issue. First off, since ONLY dogs and miniature horses are ADA protected service animals, you know immediately that any other species is NOT a service animal just by observation. No questions needed. Secondly, the law specifically and clearly gives you to ability to ask the questions. Third, if an animal is actually a problem (out of control or not housebroken), they can be kicked out EVEN IF IT'S A LEGITIMATE SERVICE ANIMAL! |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 5:32:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
90% of people seeing this will "AAAWWWWWWWWW...."
10% will see the drool. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/67413/21A31454-3483-4757-9FE0-46F40B9E6ECE_jpeg-861207.JPG |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 5:33:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem that I've run into, is that being right in today's world doesn't mean you win. And being sued isn't the only way they can make your life hard. My crew had a miscommunication with a lady about her dog (I still to this day don't know if it was legit service dog or not). She called every level of bosses we had all the way up to the mayor and omsbudsman twice a day, every day for a month. This was before Facebook but I'm sure it would be even worse today. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: People can (and do) sue over anything and everything. We (all of us) practice some level of risk assessment daily. We are constantly doing and saying things that open us up to complaints or lawsuits. We balance everything out and decide on a course of action. The law clearly gives us the legal ability to screen ADA service animals. Can any of the folks worrying about service dogs cite a statistically relevant number of cases (or even any case) where the feds went after someone for asking the ADA questions??? This really seems like an overblown issue. First off, since ONLY dogs and miniature horses are ADA protected service animals, you know immediately that any other species is NOT a service animal just by observation. No questions needed. Secondly, the law specifically and clearly gives you to ability to ask the questions. Third, if an animal is actually a problem (out of control or not housebroken), they can be kicked out EVEN IF IT'S A LEGITIMATE SERVICE ANIMAL! But since a mere complaint has seven large attached to it, as I stated above, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. I still deal with a complaint or two a year. It's a cost of doing business. It's by far the most common discrimination complaint filed. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 5:35:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
90% of people seeing this will "AAAWWWWWWWWW...."
10% will see the drool. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/67413/21A31454-3483-4757-9FE0-46F40B9E6ECE_jpeg-861207.JPG  Attached FileSlobberDoodle.. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 6:07:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I touched on this earlier - a discrimination complaint to the state CRC averages about seven grand to defend, from complaint to no probable cause finding. If for some reason we move past NPC, which has occurred only twice in my 20 years running this show, it went @ $25k both times and we prevailed. DOJ interaction slightly less costly, but most complaints move through the state so I've only experienced one. But since a mere complaint has seven large attached to it, as I stated above, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. I still deal with a complaint or two a year. It's a cost of doing business. It's by far the most common discrimination complaint filed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: People can (and do) sue over anything and everything. We (all of us) practice some level of risk assessment daily. We are constantly doing and saying things that open us up to complaints or lawsuits. We balance everything out and decide on a course of action. The law clearly gives us the legal ability to screen ADA service animals. Can any of the folks worrying about service dogs cite a statistically relevant number of cases (or even any case) where the feds went after someone for asking the ADA questions??? This really seems like an overblown issue. First off, since ONLY dogs and miniature horses are ADA protected service animals, you know immediately that any other species is NOT a service animal just by observation. No questions needed. Secondly, the law specifically and clearly gives you to ability to ask the questions. Third, if an animal is actually a problem (out of control or not housebroken), they can be kicked out EVEN IF IT'S A LEGITIMATE SERVICE ANIMAL! But since a mere complaint has seven large attached to it, as I stated above, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. I still deal with a complaint or two a year. It's a cost of doing business. It's by far the most common discrimination complaint filed. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 6:17:58 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Freedom is scary |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 6:24:03 PM EDT
[#32]
I think my Boxer (mastiff descendant) would be a great service dog
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Posted: 2/28/2019 6:30:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m not inflicting that on the world. An emotional support dog. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 6:50:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I went back and read your previous post I had missed. Bingo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: People can (and do) sue over anything and everything. We (all of us) practice some level of risk assessment daily. We are constantly doing and saying things that open us up to complaints or lawsuits. We balance everything out and decide on a course of action. The law clearly gives us the legal ability to screen ADA service animals. Can any of the folks worrying about service dogs cite a statistically relevant number of cases (or even any case) where the feds went after someone for asking the ADA questions??? This really seems like an overblown issue. First off, since ONLY dogs and miniature horses are ADA protected service animals, you know immediately that any other species is NOT a service animal just by observation. No questions needed. Secondly, the law specifically and clearly gives you to ability to ask the questions. Third, if an animal is actually a problem (out of control or not housebroken), they can be kicked out EVEN IF IT'S A LEGITIMATE SERVICE ANIMAL! But since a mere complaint has seven large attached to it, as I stated above, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. I still deal with a complaint or two a year. It's a cost of doing business. It's by far the most common discrimination complaint filed. Similar to ACAA, if a licensed mental health professional is willing to certify the need, that's all that's required. Discriminating once the requirement of the law is met is a sure way to put your ass in a sling. But it's easy for folks who have no skin in the game, zero experience and at best a superficial understanding of the legal landscape to agitate for actions which have no consequence...for them. Peeps in my industry who took more aggressive stances got to defend a much larger number of complaints, defend an untenable position and in the end, were lucky to get off with consent decrees. There's no upside and huge liability - so there's no inducement to ferret out the abuse. If you end up wrong, willful and malicious discrimination is not what you want to face. |
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Posted: 2/28/2019 10:57:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Freedom doesn't seek a permission slip to allow his dog to fly coach. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:00:15 PM EDT
[#36]
APD: Owner bit by 100-pound mastiff, dog taken by animal control. Serious injuries |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 6:02:41 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: APD: Owner bit by 100-pound mastiff, dog taken by animal control. Serious injuries |
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