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Posted: 1/2/2021 11:08:27 PM EDT
I have been doing some reading on the Stuart and its M3 family. I always thought this was a neat tank but info on it in combat is lacking despite it being everywhere. Does anyone know a good place to read about it in a book or documentary . As well as the Stuart I also am interested in the M24 Chaffee. Here is a good link about post war use https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2020/10/18/strange-stuarts-of-brazil/
Pic to start this off  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 11:14:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: I have been doing some reading on the Stuart and its M3 family. I always thought this was a neat tank but info on it in combat is lacking despite it being everywhere. Does anyone know a good place to read about it in a book or documentary . As well as the Stuart I also am interested in the M24 Chaffee. Here is a good link about post war use https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2020/10/18/strange-stuarts-of-brazil/ Pic to start this off https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/213498/0B7913B6-2284-48A1-95E4-E065E997EA92_jpe-1761201.JPG Last time I seen Mike Brown (of Group Industries fame) he still had three.  Nice dude to talk with. Loves his Stuarts. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 11:17:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Last time I seen Mike Brown (of Group Industries fame) he still had three. Nice dude to talk with. Loves his Stuarts. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 11:38:37 PM EDT
[#3]
What about the Walker Bulldog?
LC |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 11:39:40 PM EDT
[#4]
I don't have any good books on them, M3 Stuarts, but loved the Haunted Tank comics as a kid. Memory of them was they were essentially obsolete by early WW2, but they served in a variety of roles. Primarily recon and infantry support.
In the Pacific theater, they faired better than the European theater, as the Japanese tanks were not as modern or effective as the German tanks of the day. They were also relatively fast, and could navigate some of the tighter confines of jungles in the Pacific. In the hedge rows of Normandy, they also had some success navigating those tight confines, and breaching said hedge rows with improvised hedge cutters. What's fascinating, is there are modernized versions of the Stuart with 75mm guns, upgraded armor and drive trains still serving today in Central and South America all these years later. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 11:46:38 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 1/2/2021 11:51:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryThat’s cool. Is there a fun story behind the need for the lift/tow? |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 11:53:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote History |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 11:53:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about the Walker Bulldog? LC |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 11:58:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s cool. Is there a fun story behind the need for the lift/tow? Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s cool. Is there a fun story behind the need for the lift/tow? It's in a city park that got some grant money for improvements. The slab it was sitting on was breaking up badly so they wanted us to move it up the hill temporarily so they could remove the old slab and build a new one. It's all welded shut, but I was able to see that it has a pretty cool radial engine in it. The engine looks to be in way better shape than the rest of it. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:00:23 AM EDT
[#10]
It gets a lot of criticism for its weak armament and armor, though both were on par with other scout vehicles of the period. Could be it was used for medium tank jobs for which it was ill-suited.
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:09:38 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It gets a lot of criticism for its weak armament and armor, though both were on par with other scout vehicles of the period. Could be it was used for medium tank jobs for which it was ill-suited. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:12:31 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It gets a lot of criticism for its weak armament and armor, though both were on par with other scout vehicles of the period. Could be it was used for medium tank jobs for which it was ill-suited. I recall reading some stories of M5 equipped Cav/recon units in the ETO being used in frontal attacks that were disasters (which, of course, you aren’t supposed to do, so it should not be surprising that it was a disaster). Cant remember where I read that tho  Most armies in WWII used their obsolete light tanks for scouting, kinda regardless of how well suited the design was. I recall standing next to an M5 and thinking how it was surprisingly tall - not what you want for sneaking around, or for stability in rough terrain. The US Army knew the M5 simply wasn’t up to the task, and therefore got the M24, which was a vast improvement. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:13:04 AM EDT
[#13]
If memory serves there's still Walker Bulldogs in use in Centra America, in Uruguay, Thailand, and I thought Singapore.
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:20:10 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If memory serves there's still Walker Bulldogs in use in Centra America, in Uruguay, Thailand, and I thought Singapore. Still a few Stuarts in South America as well. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:25:18 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If memory serves there's still Walker Bulldogs in use in Centra America, in Uruguay, Thailand, and I thought Singapore. Chile used M24’s upgraded with an Israeli (or Italian?) designed 60mm high velocity gun - supposed to have 90mm performance that could fit in the small turret ring of the M24 and M4. Linky |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:25:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Look for a book called “Brazen Chariots” by Major Robert Crisp. Deals with the British fighting with M3 Stuarts in the African campaign.
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:27:48 AM EDT
[#17]
The French used their M24s to good effect in Indochina. Light tanks are great when your enemy has none!
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:28:46 AM EDT
[#18]
We were just talking about M5's field modified into "T8 limited standard" reconnaissance vehicles and kangaroos (cargo carriers and ersatz APC's, a squad or so of troops packed into the fighting compartment where the turret used to be) in the Great photos of WWII thread: Link
Turret lifted off and replaced with a halftrack machine gun ring to reduce profile and increase speed to make it a better recon vehicle:  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached FileCommand vehicle with a raised lip so the Brigadier General can stand:  Attached FileI'd like to know more about how light tanks were really used in Europe. Recon I know about, but were they used with infantry divisions as IFV's, like a Bradley minus the squad in the trunk? |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:29:04 AM EDT
[#19]
Best book on the American light tank is R. P. Hunnicutt's Stuart: A History of The American Light Tank. I have his entire series.
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:33:20 AM EDT
[#20]
You should look into the Squadron books, they're cool.
https://www.amazon.com/Stuart-Light-Tanks-action-Armor/dp/0897470842/ https://www.amazon.com/M24-Chaffee-action-Armor-No/dp/0897472055/ |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:39:15 AM EDT
[#21]
The Bear of Kinmen
After running out of ammunition they used it to run over Commies ?? 
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:42:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its weird we hear so much more about half tracks. I guess because they have a larger civilian ownership American Half tracks are stupid easy to maintain to this day. The lack of universal carriers has always surprised me. They made a ridiculous number of them, but actual examples are pretty rare |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:42:47 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We were just talking about M5's field modified into "T8 limited standard" reconnaissance vehicles and kangaroos (cargo carriers and ersatz APC's, a squad or so of troops packed into the fighting compartment where the turret used to be) in the Great photos of WWII thread: Link Turret lifted off and replaced with a halftrack machine gun ring to reduce profile and increase speed to make it a better recon vehicle: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/172926/stuart-recce_jpg-1759342.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/172926/Tr51680-1_jpg-1759349.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/172926/stuart_v_jpg-1759348.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/172926/stuartreccehood_jpg-1759512.JPG Command vehicle with a raised lip so the Brigadier General can stand: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/172926/T55_jpg-1759499.JPG I'd like to know more about how light tanks were really used in Europe. Recon I know about, but were they used with infantry divisions as IFV's, like a Bradley minus the squad in the trunk? |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:43:40 AM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:49:53 AM EDT
[#25]
 T8 Reconnaissance Vehicle |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:53:29 AM EDT
[#26]
Retreated from the Japanese as a M3 Stuart and returned later as a command vehicle.
In December 1941 the 7th Armoured Brigade (7th Hussars and 2nd Royal Tank Regiment) was sent to Singapore with their Stuart tanks. The city fell before they arrived, and so they were sent to Burma instead. They fought a series of stubborn rearguard actions during the retreat, but only one Stuart was able to cross the final river barriers. This tank went to the Indian 7th Light Cavalry, where it was turned into a turretless command tank called 'Curse of Scotland' and was used by Lt. Col. Jack Barlow. 
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:56:01 AM EDT
[#27]
My great grandfather served in the ETO in a Stuart.
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Posted: 1/3/2021 12:56:02 AM EDT
[#28]
Steven Zaloga also has a couple of the Osprey military series books on the Stuart tanks.
 Attached FileAnd he wrote the squadron/signal “in action” Stuart booklet |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 1:02:01 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The French used their M24s to good effect in Indochina. Light tanks are great when your enemy has none! The French had Stuarts too in Vietnam, one got trapped, the crew pretty much died a gruesome death. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 10:09:14 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look for a book called "Brazen Chariots" by Major Robert Crisp. Deals with the British fighting with M3 Stuarts in the African campaign. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 10:12:54 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We were just talking about M5's field modified into "T8 limited standard" reconnaissance vehicles and kangaroos (cargo carriers and ersatz APC's, a squad or so of troops packed into the fighting compartment where the turret used to be) in the Great photos of WWII thread: Link Turret lifted off and replaced with a halftrack machine gun ring to reduce profile and increase speed to make it a better recon vehicle: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/172926/stuart-recce_jpg-1759342.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/172926/Tr51680-1_jpg-1759349.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/172926/stuart_v_jpg-1759348.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/172926/stuartreccehood_jpg-1759512.JPG Command vehicle with a raised lip so the Brigadier General can stand: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/172926/T55_jpg-1759499.JPG I'd like to know more about how light tanks were really used in Europe. Recon I know about, but were they used with infantry divisions as IFV's, like a Bradley minus the squad in the trunk? still using the B25 bomber for multi engine training in the early 1960s . Guy was an SR71 pilot that learned in them 2 years prior to flying the blackbird. It appears the Stuart may have been used as a training tank until after Korea in the US |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 10:14:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Steven Zaloga also has a couple of the Osprey military series books on the Stuart tanks. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/319879/DC29C2BE-B253-42B6-B93C-F528B0F3D9EA_jpe-1761357.JPG And he wrote the squadron/signal "in action" Stuart booklet |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 10:16:03 AM EDT
[#33]
I'd love to own and use one.
How's the ammo supply lately? |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 10:25:34 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are these picture books or actual first hand accounts ? Zaloga is a writer. Maj. Crisp's Brazen Chariots is the only first hand account of tank battles in a M-3 Stuart. M-3 Stuarts saw a lot of action in the Pacific and in Buna Campaign (New Guinea). Later USMC Stuart tankers found a novel way to get rid of Japanese infantry hidden in trees. Once one was located and it was safe to approach the coconut tree, the Stuart would push the tree such that it bent (palmetto is very flexible). Then the tank would reverse and the tree would catapult its occupant while eager Marines would use the flying soldier as a trap target. It'll be covered in my sniping book. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 10:30:52 AM EDT
[#35]
M22 Locust, airborne tank.
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Posted: 1/3/2021 10:38:42 AM EDT
[#36]
So would we be including scorpions and scimitars in this discussion?
Cause they are cool to me and possibly fit the criteria |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 10:39:39 AM EDT
[#37]
A buddy and I were bidding on some small us tank years ago untill our now Ex's figured it out and lost their shit. ??
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Posted: 1/3/2021 10:40:17 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The French used their M24s to good effect in Indochina. Light tanks are great when your enemy has none! M24's at Dien Bien Phu were brought in disassembled. They bolted them together on the ground. Evidently, they were pretty handy until eventually destroyed. Iirc there are photos around of at least one stripped out hulk that is still on site. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 10:59:53 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M24's at Dien Bien Phu were brought in disassembled. They bolted them together on the ground. Evidently, they were pretty handy until eventually destroyed. Iirc there are photos around of at least one stripped out hulk that is still on site. Yup. They were too heavy for any of the transport aircraft the French had access to - mostly Flying Boxcars and CH-47s - so they had to be brought in this way. IIRC, most of the M24s ended up being destroyed by their own crews to keep them out of V-M hands. The V-M had no real way to deal with them; they tried recoilless rifles and such, but were rarely successful in actually knocking one out. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 11:06:53 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So would we be including scorpions and scimitars in this discussion? Cause they are cool to me and possibly fit the criteria |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 11:14:49 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The French had Stuarts too in Vietnam, one got trapped, the crew pretty much died a gruesome death. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The French used their M24s to good effect in Indochina. Light tanks are great when your enemy has none! The French had Stuarts too in Vietnam, one got trapped, the crew pretty much died a gruesome death. Bernard Fall's, "Street Without Joy," very good book! |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 11:18:58 AM EDT
[#42]
Bill Bellamy led a Cromwell Troop but was later remounted into lend-lease M-24 Chaffees. His had an Infrared sight too and he participated in the Victory Parade in Berlin. Book is Troop Leader.
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Posted: 1/3/2021 11:22:15 AM EDT
[#43]
 |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 11:23:44 AM EDT
[#44]
There was a gentleman named Wayne Crume in Portales NM that I met when I was in college. Really pleasant fellow. In fact, he used to play his guitar and sing cowboy songs at the local Tasty Freeze on Friday nights. He grew up on a ranch in Elida NM, and recalled how he was sick for three days after a rattlesnake under the house bit him in the hand, and how he found a coyote pup and raised him as a pet. He had some neat stories about growing up on that ranch in that era (1930s).
Anyway, he had been a tank commander in the ETO on an M5 Stuart light tank as a SSG in some sort of armored reconnaissance unit when he was busted down to PVT for insubordination IIRC. A young 2LT back filled his TC position. Shortly thereafter, the 2LT was KIA when he took an 88mm projectile in the chest. Mr. Crume was the only M5 Stuart crewman I ever met. He’s probably long gone now, but it was a joy and pleasure to meet that man. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 11:28:55 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryI was going to post this. I grew up on that comic book. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 11:35:03 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was going to post this. I grew up on that comic book. I'm not the only one? |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 11:37:45 AM EDT
[#47]
There were a couple of chassis from an M3 at a mine I worked at.
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Posted: 1/3/2021 11:38:16 AM EDT
[#48]
Did the Brazilian Stuart’s ever see battle?
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Posted: 1/3/2021 11:40:04 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There was a gentleman named Wayne Crume in Portales NM that I met when I was in college. Really pleasant fellow. In fact, he used to play his guitar and sing cowboy songs at the local Tasty Freeze on Friday nights. He grew up on a ranch in Elida NM, and recalled how he was sick for three days after a rattlesnake under the house bit him in the hand, and how he found a coyote pup and raised him as a pet. He had some neat stories about growing up on that ranch in that era (1930s). Anyway, he had been a tank commander in the ETO on an M5 Stuart light tank as a SSG in some sort of armored reconnaissance unit when he was busted down to PVT for insubordination IIRC. A young 2LT back filled his TC position. Shortly thereafter, the 2LT was KIA when he took an 88mm projectile in the chest. Mr. Crume was the only M5 Stuart crewman I ever met. He's probably long gone now, but it was a joy and pleasure to meet that man. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 11:43:23 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There were a couple of chassis from an M3 at a mine I worked at. |
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