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Page General » General Discussion
Archived [ARCHIVED THREAD] - If energy cannot be created or destroyed..... (Page 1 of 5)
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Posted: 7/31/2018 1:55:00 PM EDT
Then how do magnets work? How can I put a magnet on my refrigerator and it not fall off? Wouldn’t it use magnetic energy to pull itself to the fridge to resist gravity? So how come it never falls off?

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 1:57:17 PM EDT
[#1]
When you figure it out, you'll be richer than God.

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 1:58:01 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
When you figure it out, you'll be richer than God.
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Link Posted: 7/31/2018 1:59:53 PM EDT
[#3]
How do magnets become magnets and how much energy is required to make them that way?
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:02:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Does gravity use up gravitational energy? When will the Earth run out of it?

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:04:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Electromagnetic force is one of the fundamental forces like gravity. The attraction is energy that is never destroyed.

I’ll blow your mind op. Water, falling downhill, turning a bunch of magnets “creates” energy in the form of electricity.  If you realize it doesn’t create energy only transfers it then the lightbulb will go on in your head.

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:04:55 PM EDT
[#6]
magnets get weaker over time, it'll eventually fall off
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:05:04 PM EDT
[#7]
I know the answer but I'm not telling OP.  The learning of the thing is often more important than the knowing of the thing.

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:05:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Beacause the energy you exerted to pull the magnet off the refrigerator is reciprocal to the energy it constantly exerts to stay in place. It's a weird balance of nature
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:05:30 PM EDT
[#9]
I have only had to refill my magnet twice
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:05:47 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
Does gravity use up gravitational energy? When will the Earth run out of it?
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Well, gravity is mass singularities consuming the space around them, and space is energy, soooo...

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:05:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Work = force x distance.  Neither the magnet nor the refrigerator are moving -> no work -> no energy is used.

You should read a Physics book someday.

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:06:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Does gravity use up gravitational energy? When will the Earth run out of it?
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Well fuck. There goes me ever sleeping again.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:06:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Then how do magnets work? How can I put a magnet on my refrigerator and it not fall off? Wouldn’t it use magnetic energy to pull itself to the fridge to resist gravity? So how come it never falls off?
View Quote
FUCKING IN!
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:06:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Matter op, matter cannot be created or destroyed.

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:07:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Umpa Lumpa, or Jugallo?
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:07:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Work = force x distance. Neither the magnet nor the refrigerator are moving -> no work -> no energy is used.

You should read a Physics book someday.
View Quote
Agree, after the edit.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:08:01 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
Matter op, matter cannot be created or destroyed.
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Shhhh! he was already on a roll.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:09:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Matter op, matter cannot be created or destroyed.
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Wrong. Energy cannot be destroyed or created (we think), and matter is merely a form of energy. Twist energy into enough knots and you get matter (strings). Smack matter hard enough and it returns to being energy.

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:09:53 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
I have only had to refill my magnet twice
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Seems like a lot.

Unrelated, but I have put thousand of rounds through my AR and have never had to add more gas. If only Detroit could emulate such fuel efficiency!
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:10:28 PM EDT
[#20]
All of my magnets take triple A batteries. No worries here.

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:11:04 PM EDT
[#21]
The duality of man. The Jungian thing, sir.

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:13:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Beacause the energy you exerted to pull the magnet off the refrigerator is reciprocal to the energy it constantly exerts to stay in place. It's a weird balance of nature
View Quote
How is it equal? The magnet is sideways actively resisting the pull of gravity. If I leave the magnet up for 2 mins it uses less energy than if I left it up there 2 years?

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:13:05 PM EDT
[#23]
The magnetic field comes from the motion of the core (which is a giant solid blob of nickel and Iron) in the earth... so there is that.

The magnets are the same but on a smaller scale, it is an inherent property of the universe, AKA one of the fundamental forces.

Just like Gravity, it is the result of the mass of the earth and is a reversible conservative force.

No my friend you have not broke the second law...

It's all good.

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:13:33 PM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:
Well fuck. There goes me ever sleeping again.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does gravity use up gravitational energy? When will the Earth run out of it?
Well fuck. There goes me ever sleeping again.
Fuck me. I'm feeling lighter already.

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:14:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Matter op, matter cannot be created or destroyed.
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How do plants work?
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:14:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Beacause the energy you exerted to pull the magnet off the refrigerator is reciprocal to the energy it constantly exerts to stay in place. It's a weird balance of nature
View Quote

Yes and because there is no work there is no heat.  Therefore the magnet doesn't cook aand thus stays in it's raw state, stuck forever.  Why do you think they call it a "rare Earth magnet?"

 Duh.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:16:20 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yes and because there is no work there is no heat.  Therefore the magnet doesn't cook aand thus stays in it's raw state, stuck forever.  Why do you think they call it a "rare Earth magnet?"

Duh.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Beacause the energy you exerted to pull the magnet off the refrigerator is reciprocal to the energy it constantly exerts to stay in place. It's a weird balance of nature
Yes and because there is no work there is no heat.  Therefore the magnet doesn't cook aand thus stays in it's raw state, stuck forever.  Why do you think they call it a "rare Earth magnet?"

Duh.


My new sig line if you don't mind!
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:18:23 PM EDT
[#28]
Attachment Attached File

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:18:37 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How is it equal? The magnet is sideways actively resisting the pull of gravity. If I leave the magnet up for 2 mins it uses less energy than if I left it up there 2 years?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Beacause the energy you exerted to pull the magnet off the refrigerator is reciprocal to the energy it constantly exerts to stay in place. It's a weird balance of nature
How is it equal? The magnet is sideways actively resisting the pull of gravity. If I leave the magnet up for 2 mins it uses less energy than if I left it up there 2 years?
Gravity is a force that is always there. It can’t resist it, it’s a constant force. In your example the electromagnetic attraction between the 2 objects combined with friction are greater than gravity acting on the mass of the object.

There is no energy being used in your example. Only 2 forces at work.

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:19:04 PM EDT
[#30]
No work is being done by a magnet sticking to a refrigerator and holding on.

Work is done when the magnet sticks to it - there is a collision between the magnet and the attracted object - and then work must be expended to pull the objects back apart.  Net zero.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:19:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

How is it equal? The magnet is sideways actively resisting the pull of gravity. If I leave the magnet up for 2 mins it uses less energy than if I left it up there 2 years?
View Quote
Imagine an elastic band being stretched as far as it can be stretched and another elastic band perpendicular to the afformentoned elastic band being compressed as hard as it can be compressed. Once you pull the elastic band, it starts decompressing and eventually begins to stretch, but as the 2nd elastic band is being stretched, the first elastic band begins to contract in such a way that it is reciprocal in nature to the 2nd elastic band if that makes sense
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:19:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:20:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How is it equal? The magnet is sideways actively resisting the pull of gravity. If I leave the magnet up for 2 mins it uses less energy than if I left it up there 2 years?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Beacause the energy you exerted to pull the magnet off the refrigerator is reciprocal to the energy it constantly exerts to stay in place. It's a weird balance of nature
How is it equal? The magnet is sideways actively resisting the pull of gravity. If I leave the magnet up for 2 mins it uses less energy than if I left it up there 2 years?
Sorry, I didn’t finish my thought above.  So if I spend x amount of energy placing the magnet sideways on the fridge at some point the magnet using energy actively resisting gravity will use more energy than what I used placing it there.

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:20:51 PM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:
Matter op, matter cannot be created or destroyed.
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Matter is energy is matter.  The two are interchangeable, and in fact convertible.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:21:29 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Then how do magnets work? How can I put a magnet on my refrigerator and it not fall off? Wouldn’t it use magnetic energy to pull itself to the fridge to resist gravity? So how come it never falls off?
View Quote
You left off the last part of the Conservation of Energy principle, that it can only be changed from one form to another.

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:21:49 PM EDT
[#36]
The magnetic effect isn't energy; it is a force.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:22:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Just don't ask a scientist.

Lying mf'ers

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:23:30 PM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:




My new sig line if you don't mind!
View Quote

 I didn't mean to be polarizing but if you're stuck on it, go ahead before this thread heads South.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:24:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Energy is defined as force times displacement.  It the force doesn’t move what it is acting upon, then it isn’t energy.  It’s just a force.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:24:17 PM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:
The magnetic effect isn't energy; it is a force.
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What always blew my mind was my watch has gravity. It is acting on the earth and every single bit of matter in the universe. So is my pencil.

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:26:25 PM EDT
[#41]
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Quoted:
The magnetic effect isn't energy; it is a force.
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As has been mentioned, it's similar to gravity.  It's still conserved.

If an object falls to the Earth's surface, it will exert a force on the Earth proportional to its mass.  Of course, the object will exert an equal force on the Earth.  If you want to put the object back into deep space, you will have to expend the same energy it released when it crashed.

This is, of course, discounting all other variables.

While it's lying on the ground, no work is being done, there is no expending of energy, just like there is no expending of energy when a magnet is stuck to a surface.  Energy is only expended when the magnet sticks, or is pulled off.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:26:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
 I didn't mean to be polarizing but if you're stuck on it, go ahead before this thread heads South.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:



My new sig line if you don't mind!
 I didn't mean to be polarizing but if you're stuck on it, go ahead before this thread heads South.


People do seem to be getting charged up in here... we really should try to stay more grounded.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:26:58 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Work = force x distance.  Neither the magnet nor the refrigerator are moving -> no work -> no energy is used.

You should read a Physics book someday.
View Quote
You must have your magnet on top of your fridge.

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:27:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Electromagnetic force is one of the fundamental forces like gravity. The attraction is energy that is never destroyed.

I’ll blow your mind op. Water, falling downhill, turning a bunch of magnets “creates” energy in the form of electricity.  If you realize it doesn’t create energy only transfers it then the lightbulb will go on in your head.
View Quote
This. Your answer is pretty much the title of your thread OP
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:27:28 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Matter is energy is matter.  The two are interchangeable, and in fact convertible.
View Quote
If only someone had written that down.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:29:47 PM EDT
[#46]
Apathy in the universe is increasing.

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:29:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If only someone had written that down.
View Quote
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:31:44 PM EDT
[#48]
All the small things are looking the same way, spinning the same direction...
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:32:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Work = force x distance.  Neither the magnet nor the refrigerator are moving -> no work -> no energy is used.

You should read a Physics book someday.
View Quote
Yep no energy used. It is the way the atoms are made up that form the attraction.

Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:32:43 PM EDT
[#50]
If energy can’t be created or destroyed then that means the energy of the universe is finite and didn’t change. That also means that energy was contained in a singularity that went bang.

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