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Posted: 9/21/2023 10:02:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I refer to Putin supporters and those who share his perspective, I am specifically referring to those who support Putin and those who share his perspective. It’s not a simplification. It’s specific. Do you deny that they exist? Nope. I saw a couple of posts that do indeed fit that description. However, that’s not where the overwhelming majority of people who no longer support financial or lethal aid to Ukraine are coming from. There is VERY little love of Putin or tyranny on this forum. That’s my point though. You appear to be trying to smash the putin peg into the square hole of many people who have good reason to disagree with you on the subject of Ukraine. This, to be honest, compulsive insistence that anyone who disagrees is either an unwitting consumer or outright spreader of Kremlin propaganda is so far off the mark, just so completely inaccurate, that I can’t figure out why you continue to pursue it. If the goal is to persuade, it’s failing miserably. Is it not the goal? |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 10:04:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many threads have you started to complain about Entitlement spending? A few. Spending on Ukraine is entitlement spending 
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Posted: 9/21/2023 11:44:51 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope. I saw a couple of posts that do indeed fit that description. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When I refer to Putin supporters and those who share his perspective, I am specifically referring to those who support Putin and those who share his perspective. It’s not a simplification. It’s specific. Do you deny that they exist? Nope. I saw a couple of posts that do indeed fit that description. However, that’s not where the overwhelming majority of people who no longer support financial or lethal aid to Ukraine are coming from. There is VERY little love of Putin or tyranny on this forum. That’s my point though. You appear to be trying to smash the putin peg into the square hole of many people who have good reason to disagree with you on the subject of Ukraine. This, to be honest, compulsive insistence that anyone who disagrees is either an unwitting consumer or outright spreader of Kremlin propaganda is so far off the mark, just so completely inaccurate, that I can’t figure out why you continue to pursue it. If the goal is to persuade, it’s failing miserably. Is it not the goal? Nothing you just posted is accurate or honest. I could not have been more specific in what I said, and you are dishonestly misinterpreting it to further your agenda (whatever that may be). I will not characterize your motives, because I cannot fathom what would drive such behavior. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 1:28:59 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. You acknowledge that those posters to whom I refer are as I say. I’m not referring to them. I’m referring to those who willingly and knowingly post Russian talking points. The people you just acknowledged exist. Nothing you just posted is accurate or honest. I could not have been more specific in what I said, and you are dishonestly misinterpreting it to further your agenda (whatever that may be). I will not characterize your motives, because I cannot fathom what would drive such behavior. You're intentionally distorting both what I wrote and reality, ironically enough to further your agenda.  I wrote that I had seen a couple of those types of pro-Putin posts, yes. But as tantalizing as that "admission" apparently was to you in your quest for some sort of sad gotcha, what I've also witnessed are dozens if not hundreds of overtly genocidal and bizarre posts from pro-Ukraine fanatics who wished to eliminate every human being from Russia. Posters who have advocated for the murder of women and children for nothing other than being Russian. Just... salivating at the idea of it. That's happened too. A lot. Do I believe that all people who support Ukraine secretly harbor murderous, evil beliefs? Nope, not even close. My best friend and I disagree very deeply about Ukraine. He's the coolest and most amazing person I've ever met, yet we fundamentally disagree on that subject. I don't need to invent an explanation of dark, unseen forces political or otherwise for why he feels the way he does. Nor does he feel the need to demonize or diminish me for my difference of opinion. Every mental illness, incoherent distortion of reality, and pathological viewpoint has been and will be on display here. It's the internet, dude. A gun forum. You know this. As for being bewildered by my motives, I believe you. We're definitely quite different and I'm guessing both of us are grateful for that.  |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 1:31:52 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A few. Spending on Ukraine is entitlement spending Truth. We’re getting dicked by UKR, and the US public is getting the clue. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 1:35:55 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Truth. We’re getting dicked by UKR, and the US public is getting the clue. No comment |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 1:46:05 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No comment Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Truth. We’re getting dicked by UKR, and the US public is getting the clue. No comment Then why post? |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 2:05:09 AM EDT
[#8]
If UKR falls or has the appearance of falling and there is no meaningful application of decisive force, the full RUS PRC agenda will unfold.
It will green light PRC expansion, including direct expansion and as a minimum neo feudal regional hegemony over all SE Asia whilst RUS attempts to recreate the former USSR in bite sized pieces. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 3:30:39 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No comment “We” as in the Russian army, yes |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 3:31:26 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A few. Spending on Ukraine is entitlement spending So you’d support it, right? Most of the spending stays here too since it’s replacing weapons. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 10:24:28 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BTW: I'm looking all over GD for the usual suspects to howl about the $5 Billion we sent to Iran for the hostages, how that's destroying the US budget, how we're funding the Iranian retirement, there's probably Iranians dancing in beachclubs, etc. Seems like those threads aren't turning up during a search. Strange. Not really a good counter argument there. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:06:40 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:10:28 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you’d support it, right? Most of the spending stays here too since it’s replacing weapons. No, I don’t support money for entitlement spending in Ukraine. They should work to pay for their own war instead of partying on Odessa beaches. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:29:46 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, I don’t support money for entitlement spending in Ukraine. They should work to pay for their own war instead of partying on Odessa beaches. But you are in favor of money for weapons in Ukraine, right? You wouldn't just be spinning up the entitlement angle for propaganda value? |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:59:23 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, I don't support money for entitlement spending in Ukraine. They should work to pay for their own war instead of partying on Odessa beaches. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So you'd support it, right? Most of the spending stays here too since it's replacing weapons. No, I don't support money for entitlement spending in Ukraine. They should work to pay for their own war instead of partying on Odessa beaches. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Biden-Names-Obama-Crony-Penny-Pritzker-to-Lead-Ukraine-s-Economic-Recovery/5-2674188/?r=-1&page=1&anc=bottom#bottom |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 12:11:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But you are in favor of money for weapons in Ukraine, right? You wouldn't just be spinning up the entitlement angle for propaganda value? No I am not in favor of US taxpayer money for weapons for Ukraine. I’m not in favor of any money for Ukraine. European countries or Ukraine should pay for their war, Ukraines war is not Americans problem to deal with or fund. What’s hilarious is you uke bros took a joke literally. Calling it entitlement spending was the joke… referring to Zelenskyy’s continued smug and entitled demands of access to Americans wallets. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 5:10:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Ronald Reagan would be rolling in his grave at the amount of Russian supporters. I haven't see Russian supporters here. I've seen people like myself who accept the inevitable Russian victory. People who are saying that we should not be supporting a lost cause. That's not support of Russia, it's just an acceptance of reality. Old Henry Kissinger (who is as wise as they come in foreign affairs) said in the very beginning that the best solution for Ukraine would be to give up some land to negotiate a peace deal. They could have avoided seeing their major cities in rubble..........but they chose wrong and still can't see it. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 6:09:12 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, I don’t support money for entitlement spending in Ukraine. They should work to pay for their own war instead of partying on Odessa beaches. You do in fact support entitlement spending here "because it benefits Americans". Most of the funds that are "sent" to Ukraine is the dollar value of weapons and that money is spent here to replace them. Like a broken record
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Posted: 9/22/2023 6:18:29 PM EDT
[#19]
e
Quote HistoryQuoted: You do in fact support entitlement spending here "because it benefits Americans". Most of the funds that are "sent" to Ukraine is the dollar value of weapons and that money is spent here to replace them. Like a broken record "Most of the funds that are "sent" to Ukraine is the dollar value of weapons and that money is spent here to replace them."  Exactly like a broken record. Does not work properly and probably belongs in the trash; much like most of your drivel posted daily that we all have to endure reading. You must be one heck of a snake oil salesman to truly believe in the product you are selling. I cannot imagine dedicating every day of my life to simp for a foreign country on this forum. Good Grief, you should run for congress. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 6:21:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No I am not in favor of US taxpayer money for weapons for Ukraine. I’m not in favor of any money for Ukraine. European countries or Ukraine should pay for their war, Ukraines war is not Americans problem to deal with or fund. What’s hilarious is you uke bros took a joke literally. Calling it entitlement spending was the joke… referring to Zelenskyy’s continued smug and entitled demands of access to Americans wallets. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But you are in favor of money for weapons in Ukraine, right? You wouldn't just be spinning up the entitlement angle for propaganda value? No I am not in favor of US taxpayer money for weapons for Ukraine. I’m not in favor of any money for Ukraine. European countries or Ukraine should pay for their war, Ukraines war is not Americans problem to deal with or fund. What’s hilarious is you uke bros took a joke literally. Calling it entitlement spending was the joke… referring to Zelenskyy’s continued smug and entitled demands of access to Americans wallets. So you were just spinning it as propaganda and not actually a serious comment. Got it |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 6:24:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven't see Russian supporters here. I've seen people like myself who accept the inevitable Russian victory. People who are saying that we should not be supporting a lost cause. That's not support of Russia, it's just an acceptance of reality. Old Henry Kissinger (who is as wise as they come in foreign affairs) said in the very beginning that the best solution for Ukraine would be to give up some land to negotiate a peace deal. They could have avoided seeing their major cities in rubble..........but they chose wrong and still can't see it. This is nonsense. You can argue we’re spending too much, that’s not even an argument. No one knows how this thing is gonna turn out, but it’s not the crushing defeat we’ve been promised for 576 days. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 6:26:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven't see Russian supporters here. I've seen people like myself who accept the inevitable Russian victory. People who are saying that we should not be supporting a lost cause. That's not support of Russia, it's just an acceptance of reality. Old Henry Kissinger (who is as wise as they come in foreign affairs) said in the very beginning that the best solution for Ukraine would be to give up some land to negotiate a peace deal. They could have avoided seeing their major cities in rubble..........but they chose wrong and still can't see it. There are a lot of people here who have said things like: 1. The US is a greater threat than Russia 2. The CIA is the enemy and worse than the FSB 3. Russia is aligned with their domestic enemies 4. They want NATO to lose If that's not actually pro Russian it's at least seditious. Also you would have to be daft to think the FSB hasn't assigned agents to work the largest right wing gun site in America. They have probably been here for a very long time, at least a decade. The FSB would be incompetent not to do that, and they don't strike me as incompetent. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 6:27:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are a lot of people here who have said things like: 1. The US is a greater threat than Russia 2. The CIA is the enemy and worse than the FSB 3. Russia is aligned with their domestic enemies 4. They want NATO to lose If that's not actually pro Russian it's at least seditious. Also you would have to be daft to think the FSB hasn't assigned agents to work the largest right wing gun site in America. They have probably been here for a very long time, at least a decade. The FSB would be incompetent not to do that, and they don't strike me as incompetent. Absolute clown world comment. Who has a greater chance of ruining the life of the everyday American? I will give you a hint; it is not Russia or the FSB. The CIA and the US government have already blown their proverbial load and only a fool or blind man would ignore it. Seditious to point out the threat of our own government? You probably would have supported the Redcoats in 1776. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 6:31:53 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: e "Most of the funds that are "sent" to Ukraine is the dollar value of weapons and that money is spent here to replace them." Exactly like a broken record. Does not work properly and probably belongs in the trash; much like most of your drivel posted daily that we all have to endure reading. You must be one heck of a snake oil salesman to truly believe in the product you are selling. I cannot imagine dedicating every day of my life to simp for a foreign country on this forum. Good Grief, you should run for congress. I still haven't figured out how we make money giving up munitions we don't have replacements for, don't have the capacity to build, and which will cost us significantly more due to inflation. Theres no actual money coming back into this equation, and less weapons systems for us in the end. So we get to "buy" equipment from ourselves, with our money, replace it at a much higher cost, and we get to eat the strategic risk on the years it will take us to produce it all again. Its easily the most overhyped and overplayed trope of this entire conflict. Its a talking point literally designed to fool the lowest common denominator. There are lots of actual cash LOAs going to Ukraine, because most of it is unforecasted within the FY and gets pulled straight from other DOD pots of money. Pots like unit training funds, installation funds, and modernization programs that are supposed to replace this stuff were giving away. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 7:40:26 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By  :You do in fact support entitlement spending here "because it benefits Americans". Most of the funds that are "sent" to Ukraine is the dollar value of weapons and that money is spent here to replace them. Like a broken record Are federal agencies selling guns again to fund Ukrainian pensions? EDIT: The answer is probably yes, so might not be a fair question. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 7:56:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You do in fact support entitlement spending here "because it benefits Americans". Most of the funds that are "sent" to Ukraine is the dollar value of weapons and that money is spent here to replace them. Like a broken record Quote HistoryQuoted: You do in fact support entitlement spending here "because it benefits Americans". Most of the funds that are "sent" to Ukraine is the dollar value of weapons and that money is spent here to replace them. Like a broken record The entire purpose of our government is for the citizens of the United States. Of course I favor Americans over Ukrainian orcs, just as the majority of Americans do. It's you that's in the minority here  Quoted: So you were just spinning it as propaganda and not actually a serious comment. Got it Propaganda? It was a joke. It's amazing how dense you are, LOL. Quoted: This is nonsense. You can argue we’re spending too much, that’s not even an argument. No one knows how this thing is gonna turn out, but it’s not the crushing defeat we’ve been promised for 576 days. It certainly isn't the long anticipated and propagandized Spring Offensive© that was supposed to steamroll the Russians either. That was a colossal failure that was. Quoted: There are a lot of people here who have said things like: 1. The US is a greater threat than Russia 2. The CIA is the enemy and worse than the FSB 3. Russia is aligned with their domestic enemies 4. They want NATO to lose If that's not actually pro Russian it's at least seditious. Also you would have to be daft to think the FSB hasn't assigned agents to work the largest right wing gun site in America. They have probably been here for a very long time, at least a decade. The FSB would be incompetent not to do that, and they don't strike me as incompetent. Wait a second. Ukies constantly screech that the Russians don't know their ass from their elbow and are incredibly stupid and have no idea how to fight but we are supposed to believe that the KGB is infiltrating GD? Lol wow. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:00:45 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven't see Russian supporters here. Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven't see Russian supporters here. They absolutely are here and quite a few who buy the narratives and support Russian goals. Quoted: I've seen people like myself who accept the inevitable Russian victory. inevitable? Repeating a myth does not make it true. Russia is on day 576 of the war they declared victory on 574 days ago. That is like Democrats in November of 2016 stating Republicans should stay home since Hillary is going to win in a landslide and sending them invites to the "inevitable" Hillary Clinton inauguration. Quoted: People who are saying that we should not be supporting a lost cause. How is it a lost cause? Ukrainian armor has breached the final part of the Surovikin line. Is that good for Ukraine or bad for Russia? Quoted: That's not support of Russia, it's just an acceptance of reality. The reality that Russia just lost the entire BSF fleet HQ, their flagship, a dozen other major and minor surface combatants, and a submarine in a land war that was supposed to be over a year ago? Quoted: Old Henry Kissinger (who is as wise as they come in foreign affairs) said in the very beginning that the best solution for Ukraine would be to give up some land to negotiate a peace deal. How did giving up land in 2014 bring peace? Russia just rebuilt, changed strategies, and waited. Quoted: They could have avoided seeing their major cities in rubble..........but they chose wrong and still can't see it.   You're willing to surrender and get "peace for our time". Some people are not and are willing to fight. Reminder: Russia was pushed out of Kherson, the only Oblast capital they held since the invasion. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:10:34 PM EDT
[#28]
If anyone is interested in keeping things honest here, Ukraine breached the first of three defensive lines encompassing the Surovikin Line, not the last.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/21/ukrainian-armor-has-breached-the-first-of-three-russian-trenches-outside-verbove/?sh=5c4caf55447f |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:13:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If anyone is interested in keeping things honest here, Ukraine breached the first of three defensive lines encompassing the Surovikin Line, not the last. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/21/ukrainian-armor-has-breached-the-first-of-three-russian-trenches-outside-verbove/?sh=5c4caf55447f This is devastating takedown of Faded's propaganda narratives |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:16:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If anyone is interested in keeping things honest here, Ukraine breached the first of three defensive lines encompassing the Surovikin Line, not the last. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/21/ukrainian-armor-has-breached-the-first-of-three-russian-trenches-outside-verbove/?sh=5c4caf55447f That has to be mine field central. It reads like a propoganda piece though: "But thanks in large part to their artillery, the attacking Ukrainians actually have been losing fewer people and vehicles than the defending Russians have been losing." |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:17:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Lots of folks upset to see western military munitions smashing the Black sea fleet headquarters. I see the usual crowd banging the hammer and sickle drum is big mad!
  Man I can't wait till ATACMS start smashing other high value targets, the GD usuals are going to have a conniption! And you all know I'm right! Just wait and see..
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:19:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots of folks upset to see western military munitions smashing the Black sea fleet headquarters. I see the usual crowd banging the hammer and sickle drum is big mad! Man I can't wait till ATACMS start smashing other high value targets, the GD usuals are going to have a conniption! And you all know I'm right! Just wait and see.. Did you black out and wake up in another thread again? I haven't seen anything like that. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:20:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots of folks upset to see western military munitions smashing the Black sea fleet headquarters. I see the usual crowd banging the hammer and sickle drum is big mad! Man I can't wait till ATACMS start smashing other high value targets, the GD usuals are going to have a conniption! And you all know I'm right! Just wait and see.. I think we are already seeing the effect in that Ukraine is a little more willing to use up its Storm Shadows knowing that ATACMS are coming. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:27:20 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I still haven't figured out how we make money giving up munitions we don't have replacements for, don't have the capacity to build, and which will cost us significantly more due to inflation. Theres no actual money coming back into this equation, and less weapons systems for us in the end. So we get to "buy" equipment from ourselves, with our money, replace it at a much higher cost, and we get to eat the strategic risk on the years it will take us to produce it all again. Its easily the most overhyped and overplayed trope of this entire conflict. Its a talking point literally designed to fool the lowest common denominator. There are lots of actual cash LOAs going to Ukraine, because most of it is unforecasted within the FY and gets pulled straight from other DOD pots of money. Pots like unit training funds, installation funds, and modernization programs that are supposed to replace this stuff were giving away. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:34:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If anyone is interested in keeping things honest here, Ukraine breached the first of three defensive lines encompassing the Surovikin Line, not the last. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/21/ukrainian-armor-has-breached-the-first-of-three-russian-trenches-outside-verbove/?sh=5c4caf55447f They only have heavy equipment through the first line, but there have been Ukrainian forces geolocated further than the first line for a couple of days now. It’s not a breakthrough, but they are working on the second line.  There may also be some misunderstanding of the language, demonstrated in this tweet.
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:40:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you black out and wake up in another thread again? I haven't seen anything like that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lots of folks upset to see western military munitions smashing the Black sea fleet headquarters. I see the usual crowd banging the hammer and sickle drum is big mad! Man I can't wait till ATACMS start smashing other high value targets, the GD usuals are going to have a conniption! And you all know I'm right! Just wait and see.. Did you black out and wake up in another thread again? I haven't seen anything like that. I heard all the tears and squealing and had to come see what the ruckus was, lol. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:43:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They only have heavy equipment through the first line, but there have been Ukrainian forces geolocated further than the first line for a couple of days now. It’s not a breakthrough, but they are working on the second line. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6o7FAWWgAAFh3_?format=jpg&name=large There may also be some misunderstanding of the language, demonstrated in this tweet.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6hbhHXWEAAQ4TO?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6hdZIcXoAA2YnE?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6heYW0WcAArb8K?format=jpg&name=large
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If anyone is interested in keeping things honest here, Ukraine breached the first of three defensive lines encompassing the Surovikin Line, not the last. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/21/ukrainian-armor-has-breached-the-first-of-three-russian-trenches-outside-verbove/?sh=5c4caf55447f They only have heavy equipment through the first line, but there have been Ukrainian forces geolocated further than the first line for a couple of days now. It’s not a breakthrough, but they are working on the second line. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6o7FAWWgAAFh3_?format=jpg&name=large There may also be some misunderstanding of the language, demonstrated in this tweet.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6hbhHXWEAAQ4TO?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6hdZIcXoAA2YnE?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6heYW0WcAArb8K?format=jpg&name=large
They have been paying a heavy price to get that far, but it's starting to pay off. They know they have just a month or two before the rain hits so I see them hitting it hard next couple weeks. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:44:24 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Zero fucks given either way |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:45:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If anyone is interested in keeping things honest here, Ukraine breached the first of three defensive lines encompassing the Surovikin Line, not the last. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/21/ukrainian-armor-has-breached-the-first-of-three-russian-trenches-outside-verbove/?sh=5c4caf55447f I'm sure Russia is happy to allow the Ukes to take heavy casualties while the Russians sit back and smile and enjoy the target-rich environment. What does this accomplish besides bringing death to great numbers of Ukrainians? The tiny gains in land the Ukes can attain are not worth the heavy casualties that an army on offensive must take. Hard facts and hard lessons. Reality is painful. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:57:28 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They only have heavy equipment through the first line, but there have been Ukrainian forces geolocated further than the first line for a couple of days now. It’s not a breakthrough, but they are working on the second line. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6o7FAWWgAAFh3_?format=jpg&name=large There may also be some misunderstanding of the language, demonstrated in this tweet.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6hbhHXWEAAQ4TO?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6hdZIcXoAA2YnE?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6heYW0WcAArb8K?format=jpg&name=large
Well, at least it's consistent, two weeks ago I posted that we're a couple weeks off from the latest amplification of Ukrainian Breakout™. There is a major problem associated with consistently taking both weak evidence combined with weak gains and setting unrealistic conditions and expectations over and over, none of which have panned out so far. And yes, your maps and tweets are extremely weak, unsubstantiated products arranged together en masse to insinuate importance and validity. Its simply following the established trend since the beginning of the summer that is negatively impacting third party opinion and perception. The problem is this has occurred a dozen times already. If you are truly interested in supporting the Ukrainian conflict you guys would stop perpetuating this model as it has had tangible negative effects and can be directly correlated to the "support fatigue" Ukraine's benefactors are experiencing now. It's literally becoming a case study on how not to successfully conduct IO. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:10:36 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, at least it's consistent, two weeks ago I posted that we're a couple weeks off from the latest amplification of Ukrainian Breakout™. There is a major problem associated with consistently taking both weak evidence combined with weak gains and setting unrealistic conditions and expectations over and over, none of which have panned out so far. And yes, your maps and tweets are extremely weak and are simply following the established trend since the beginning of the summer that is negatively impacting third party opinion and perception. If you are truly interested in supporting the Ukrainian conflict you guys would stop perpetuating this model as it has had tangible negative effects and can be directly correlated to the "support fatigue" Ukraine's benefactors are experiencing now. It's literally becoming a case study on how not to successfully conduct IO. I’m not interested in “supporting the Ukrainian conflict”. It’s the height of self-involved arrogance to think AR15.com general discussion will have a measurable effect on the outcome of the war. Remember that this thing goes both ways- either Russia can’t fight its way out of a paper bag, or given three months and a couple freighters full of TM-62s, petal mines, and MDK-3s, they can make defenses that even Private Conscritptavich can’t fuck up. These are conditions that no other veteran, alive or dead, has faced. Don’t diminish that for either side. There are no models here. This is just what’s out in the world, including the Russian world.  And no, Rybar doesn’t ever zoom in any more than that, which should tell you something. I could show you posts from actual Russians that support all of this weak evidence, but there’s no reason to duplicate that effort, you know where to find it. Let’s talk about models- 1) The “Russia Stronk” model got drunk on vodka in 1985 and still doesn’t know the USSR broke up and RF consistently ranks behind France in GDP. 2) Zelensky Globohomo Clownworld model ignores that Ukraine did the heavy lifting for the USSR and had a functional rocket program until months after the invasion, and thinks that the only way Russia could be losing (or for the sake of the argument, not making steady progress toward Kyiv) is because of Polish mercenaries and NATO SOF. Models are stupid, foremost because you can always find data to fit your model, no matter how Clownworld it is. If you can offer up information that proves or disproves something, do it. I will agree with you on one point, and apply it to just about everyone. People need to stop acting like they know exactly what is going to happen. There’s way too much of that. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:26:11 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is devastating takedown of Faded's propaganda narratives Others disagree with you, @Jlaudio
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:29:07 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ronald Reagan would be rolling in his grave at the amount of Russian supporters. Ronald Reagan would rack up huge debt, give amnesty to illegal immigrants, and support an assault weapons ban. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:30:13 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure Russia is happy to allow the Ukes to take heavy casualties while the Russians sit back and smile and enjoy the target-rich environment. Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure Russia is happy to allow the Ukes to take heavy casualties while the Russians sit back and smile and enjoy the target-rich environment. They aren't "Sitting back". They're pushing back also and not making much of any progress to push the AFU back. Quoted: What does this accomplish besides bringing death to great numbers of Ukrainians? Why did the USA go on the offensive in the Pacific after Midway? Were they willing to fight until the last 18-22 year old US Marine Private and PFC? Quoted: The tiny gains in land the Ukes can attain are not worth the heavy casualties that an army on offensive must take. The "tiny gains" have led to much larger gains and a snowball effect. They've made it through the Surovikin line. Now time to keep widening the fields and make it safe for heavy vehicles and start maneuver warfare again. Quoted: Hard facts and hard lessons. Reality is painful. Like the VDV learning in Hostomel and how the Ukrainian civilians learned at the hands of the VDV in Bucha. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:31:06 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not interested in “supporting the Ukrainian conflict”. It’s the height of self-involved arrogance to think AR15.com general discussion will have a measurable effect on the outcome of the war. Remember that this thing goes both ways- either Russia can’t fight its way out of a paper bag, or given three months and a couple freighters full of TM-62s, petal mines, and MDK-3s, they can make defenses that even Private Conscritptavich can’t fuck up. These are conditions that no other veteran, alive or dead, has faced. Don’t diminish that for either side. There are no models here. This is just what’s out in the world, including the Russian world. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6o7XCHWwAA96RV?format=jpg&name=large And no, Rybar doesn’t ever zoom in any more than that, which should tell you something. I could show you posts from actual Russians that support all of this weak evidence, but there’s no reason to duplicate that effort, you know where to find it. Let’s talk about models- 1) The “Russia Stronk” model got drunk on vodka in 1985 and still doesn’t know the USSR broke up and RF consistently ranks behind France in GDP. 2) Zelensky Globohomo Clownworld model ignores that Ukraine did the heavy lifting for the USSR and had a functional rocket program until months after the invasion, and thinks that the only way Russia could be losing (or for the sake of the argument, not making steady progress toward Kyiv) is because of Polish mercenaries and NATO SOF. Models are stupid, foremost because you can always find data to fit your model, no matter how Clownworld it is. If you can offer up information that proves or disproves something, do it. I will agree with you on one point, and apply it to just about everyone. People need to stop acting like they know exactly what is going to happen. There’s way too much of that. Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not interested in “supporting the Ukrainian conflict”. It’s the height of self-involved arrogance to think AR15.com general discussion will have a measurable effect on the outcome of the war. Remember that this thing goes both ways- either Russia can’t fight its way out of a paper bag, or given three months and a couple freighters full of TM-62s, petal mines, and MDK-3s, they can make defenses that even Private Conscritptavich can’t fuck up. These are conditions that no other veteran, alive or dead, has faced. Don’t diminish that for either side. There are no models here. This is just what’s out in the world, including the Russian world. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6o7XCHWwAA96RV?format=jpg&name=large And no, Rybar doesn’t ever zoom in any more than that, which should tell you something. I could show you posts from actual Russians that support all of this weak evidence, but there’s no reason to duplicate that effort, you know where to find it. Let’s talk about models- 1) The “Russia Stronk” model got drunk on vodka in 1985 and still doesn’t know the USSR broke up and RF consistently ranks behind France in GDP. 2) Zelensky Globohomo Clownworld model ignores that Ukraine did the heavy lifting for the USSR and had a functional rocket program until months after the invasion, and thinks that the only way Russia could be losing (or for the sake of the argument, not making steady progress toward Kyiv) is because of Polish mercenaries and NATO SOF. Models are stupid, foremost because you can always find data to fit your model, no matter how Clownworld it is. If you can offer up information that proves or disproves something, do it. I will agree with you on one point, and apply it to just about everyone. People need to stop acting like they know exactly what is going to happen. There’s way too much of that. There is a model here, and whether you are aware or not, you are supporting it. It's an IO model. It has happened every 3 weeks or so since June, on Twitter and various sources of every 15 meter increment gain being deliberately amplified as the great Ukrainian breakout. It's happening again right now... based on very sketchy evidence followed up by an unsubstantiated narrative, over a very minor action. If it pans out, great. The problem is this has happened numerous times and is deliberately amplified by design, and when it does not pan out the sources just go dark on it until a few weeks later when another minor action picks it right back up again. This is absolutely counterproductive and borderline deceptive. At this point the cat is out of the bag, and the fact that it is still being employed is absolutely absurd. Like I said, books will be written about the failures of IO in this conflict, and you and others here are helping perpetuate it. Quoted: It’s the height of self-involved arrogance to think AR15.com general discussion will have a measurable effect on the outcome of the war. For somebody who is so convinced there are zero tangible effects possible here, you sure do like to self-identify anything and everything as "Russian propaganda". There is heavy propaganda on both sides, you just don't seem to have an issue posting one versus the other. With that said at this point the outcome of this war is essentially dependent upon the results of a conflict of public perception within the political spheres of several key countries. It's odd that you think social media doesn't matter in that regard, when you yourself are so heavily reliant upon it. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:38:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not interested in “supporting the Ukrainian conflict”. It’s the height of self-involved arrogance to think AR15.com general discussion will have a measurable effect on the outcome of the war. Remember that this thing goes both ways- either Russia can’t fight its way out of a paper bag, or given three months and a couple freighters full of TM-62s, petal mines, and MDK-3s, they can make defenses that even Private Conscritptavich can’t fuck up. These are conditions that no other veteran, alive or dead, has faced. Don’t diminish that for either side. There are no models here. This is just what’s out in the world, including the Russian world. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6o7XCHWwAA96RV?format=jpg&name=large And no, Rybar doesn’t ever zoom in any more than that, which should tell you something. I could show you posts from actual Russians that support all of this weak evidence, but there’s no reason to duplicate that effort, you know where to find it. Let’s talk about models- 1) The “Russia Stronk” model got drunk on vodka in 1985 and still doesn’t know the USSR broke up and RF consistently ranks behind France in GDP. 2) Zelensky Globohomo Clownworld model ignores that Ukraine did the heavy lifting for the USSR and had a functional rocket program until months after the invasion, and thinks that the only way Russia could be losing (or for the sake of the argument, not making steady progress toward Kyiv) is because of Polish mercenaries and NATO SOF. Models are stupid, foremost because you can always find data to fit your model, no matter how Clownworld it is. If you can offer up information that proves or disproves something, do it. I will agree with you on one point, and apply it to just about everyone. People need to stop acting like they know exactly what is going to happen. There’s way too much of that. I can’t disagree with any of this. But I would add a third model in there, American Hubris. The US and almost all other western nations need to be put on suicide watch. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:39:28 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ronald Reagan would rack up huge debt, give amnesty to illegal immigrants, and support an assault weapons ban.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:46:15 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure Russia is happy to allow the Ukes to take heavy casualties while the Russians sit back and smile and enjoy the target-rich environment. What does this accomplish besides bringing death to great numbers of Ukrainians? The tiny gains in land the Ukes can attain are not worth the heavy casualties that an army on offensive must take. Hard facts and hard lessons. Reality is painful. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If anyone is interested in keeping things honest here, Ukraine breached the first of three defensive lines encompassing the Surovikin Line, not the last. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/21/ukrainian-armor-has-breached-the-first-of-three-russian-trenches-outside-verbove/?sh=5c4caf55447f I'm sure Russia is happy to allow the Ukes to take heavy casualties while the Russians sit back and smile and enjoy the target-rich environment. What does this accomplish besides bringing death to great numbers of Ukrainians? The tiny gains in land the Ukes can attain are not worth the heavy casualties that an army on offensive must take. Hard facts and hard lessons. Reality is painful. that is were you are wrong, of course in our eyes it is not worth it. To Ukraine who is willing to die to the last man to gain back its rightful sovereignty it is well worth it. who are we to say otherwise? |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:50:27 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. You acknowledge that those posters to whom I refer are as I say. I’m not referring to them. I’m referring to those who willingly and knowingly post Russian talking points. The people you just acknowledged exist. Nothing you just posted is accurate or honest. I could not have been more specific in what I said, and you are dishonestly misinterpreting it to further your agenda (whatever that may be). I will not characterize your motives, because I cannot fathom what would drive such behavior. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: When I refer to Putin supporters and those who share his perspective, I am specifically referring to those who support Putin and those who share his perspective. It’s not a simplification. It’s specific. Do you deny that they exist? Nope. I saw a couple of posts that do indeed fit that description. However, that’s not where the overwhelming majority of people who no longer support financial or lethal aid to Ukraine are coming from. There is VERY little love of Putin or tyranny on this forum. That’s my point though. You appear to be trying to smash the putin peg into the square hole of many people who have good reason to disagree with you on the subject of Ukraine. This, to be honest, compulsive insistence that anyone who disagrees is either an unwitting consumer or outright spreader of Kremlin propaganda is so far off the mark, just so completely inaccurate, that I can’t figure out why you continue to pursue it. If the goal is to persuade, it’s failing miserably. Is it not the goal? Nothing you just posted is accurate or honest. I could not have been more specific in what I said, and you are dishonestly misinterpreting it to further your agenda (whatever that may be). I will not characterize your motives, because I cannot fathom what would drive such behavior. Damn thats some mighty fine mental gymnastics. Lets see gaslighting ??,strawmanning ?? , deflecting ??. Youre following the uke bro sociopath playbook to a T. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:28:20 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: There is a model, and whether you are aware or not, you are supporting it. It's an IO model. It has happened every 3 weeks or so since June, on Twitter and various sources of every 15 meter increment gain being deliberately amplified as the great Ukrainian breakout. It's happening again right now... based on very sketchy evidence followed up by an unsubstantiated narrative, over a very minor action. If it pans out, great. The problem is this has happened numerous times and is deliberately amplified by design, and when it does not pan out the sources just go dark on it until a few weeks later when another minor action picks it right back up again. This is absolutely counterproductive and borderline deceptive. Like I said, books will be written about the failures of IO in this conflict, and you and others here are helping perpetuate it. For somebody who is so convinced there are zero tangible effects possible here, you sure do like to self-identify anything and everything as "Russian propaganda". There is heavy propaganda on both sides, you just don't seem to have an issue posting one versus the other. With that said at this point the outcome of this war is essentially dependent upon the results of a conflict of public perception within the political spheres of several key countries. It's odd that you think social media doesn't matter in that regard, when you yourself are so heavily reliant upon it. Like I said, data and models. You’ve found one that helps you get through the day. May it serve you well. You accuse me of seeing Russian propaganda everywhere. Your model has you seeing “IO” during a worldwide event that millions of people are watching online. It’s entirely possible that’s just news in social media, and a cigar is just a cigar. I mean otherwise the real failure of “IO” is that Budanov forgot to actually tell me what to do. |
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