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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:19:34 PM EDT
 Attached File Attached FileIneos has opened orders for July 2022 in UK and in some other markets. North America gets to wait until Spring of 2023. You have two weeks to place your $450 deposit if you received an invitation - in the form of a pin code. If you didn't get in early, you can order yours in two weeks. Price in UK is 48k...GBP. Base. So th $40k USD crowds gonna be disappointed. Never believe the rags. 5 year/60k. US dealer situation is still being sorted.  Attached Filehttps://ineosgrenadier.com/en/gb/reservation |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:23:08 PM EDT
[#1]
I got the email yesterday. I was all on board last year. Now I am on the fence.
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:25:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Not really surprised by the costs. When you source parts from BMW and Magna, shits going to be expensive.
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:26:21 PM EDT
[#3]
A Land Rover knock off made by some guy in a shed in the UK. What could go wrong?
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:27:39 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A Land Rover knock off made by some guy in a shed in the UK. What could go wrong? Lol ...kinda, cept France  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:28:27 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I got the email yesterday. I was all on board last year. Now I am on the fence. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:28:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A Land Rover knock off made by some guy in a shed in the UK. What could go wrong? The factory is pretty nice, even if it is in France. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:28:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Steering wheel is on the wrong side...
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:30:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol ...kinda Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A Land Rover knock off made by some guy in a shed in the UK. What could go wrong? I have been following from the first time I heard about it. It is a purpose built engineered vehicle made to look like defender from what I gather. Everything I have seen appears to be pretty stout. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:30:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Can I get it in electric?
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:32:29 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A Land Rover knock off made by some guy in a shed in the UK. What could go wrong? A shed in the UK in 2021 is an upgrade over unionized UK auto workers in the 1970s. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:32:35 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:35:53 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:35:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Looks like left hand drive is an option. Plus a double cab pickup is in the works. Sortofwant.jpg
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:42:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Hmm. U.S. HQ in Raw-lay Nawf Cackalacky.
RALEIGH – A $60 billion global conglomerate that’s planning to begin selling a 4×4 utility next year will base its US operations in Raleigh. In an announcement early Wednesday, INEOS Automotive detailed rollout and support plans for its Grenadier 4×4 that’s scheduled to launch next July. U.S. sales are scheduled to begin in summer 2023. European sales begin next summer. And the company will be bringing jobs to the Triangle next year. “Greg Clark, our [executive vice president] of Americas, will establish our offices and begin operations during Q4 this year,” a spokesperson for INEOS Automtive tells WRAL TechWire. Look for more than 20 additional jobs, she added. No "real work" jobs though. Just BS / marketing 'jobs'. However, there won’t be any manufacturing in North Carolina. “Vehicles will be built in Hambach, France,” the spokesperson notes. “No U.S. manufacturing is planned at this time.” Further information here: Oddball vehicle maker sucks up local taxpayer dollars scam |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:44:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really surprised by the costs. When you source parts from BMW and Magna, shits going to be expensive. $65k USD is pretty reasonable given the feature set. 30k GBP ($45k) was bullshit from the beginning BMW Driveline, Carraro axles, Gestamp chassis and panels, most of the suppliers are known quantities and top flight. Initial engineering from Magna Powertrain and series engineering by Magna Steyr made abundant sense and created a good deal of confidence. The whole project has come off well, but given Ineos' competencies and Ratcliffes vision , I've been confident from the beginning. Though there's aspects I'm not thrilled with, should be a suitable heir to the Defenders legacy. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:47:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $65k USD is pretty reasonable given the feature set. 30k GBP ($45k) was bullshit from the beginning BMW Driveline, Carraro axles, Gestamp chassis and panels, most of the suppliers are known quantities and top flight. Initial engineering from Magna Powertrain and series engineering by Magna Steyr made abundant sense and created a good deal of confidence. The whole project has come off well, but given Ineos' competencies and Ratcliffes vision , I've been confident from the beginning. Though there's aspects I'm not thrilled with, should be a suitable heir to the Defenders legacy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not really surprised by the costs. When you source parts from BMW and Magna, shits going to be expensive. $65k USD is pretty reasonable given the feature set. 30k GBP ($45k) was bullshit from the beginning BMW Driveline, Carraro axles, Gestamp chassis and panels, most of the suppliers are known quantities and top flight. Initial engineering from Magna Powertrain and series engineering by Magna Steyr made abundant sense and created a good deal of confidence. The whole project has come off well, but given Ineos' competencies and Ratcliffes vision , I've been confident from the beginning. Though there's aspects I'm not thrilled with, should be a suitable heir to the Defenders legacy. It sure beats the "new" Defender. That's for sure. 
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:53:09 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It sure beats the "new" Defender. That's for sure. https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/gallery_slide/public/images/car-reviews/first-drives/legacy/defender-2046.jpg?itok=440kkgPc Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not really surprised by the costs. When you source parts from BMW and Magna, shits going to be expensive. $65k USD is pretty reasonable given the feature set. 30k GBP ($45k) was bullshit from the beginning BMW Driveline, Carraro axles, Gestamp chassis and panels, most of the suppliers are known quantities and top flight. Initial engineering from Magna Powertrain and series engineering by Magna Steyr made abundant sense and created a good deal of confidence. The whole project has come off well, but given Ineos' competencies and Ratcliffes vision , I've been confident from the beginning. Though there's aspects I'm not thrilled with, should be a suitable heir to the Defenders legacy. It sure beats the "new" Defender. That's for sure. https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/gallery_slide/public/images/car-reviews/first-drives/legacy/defender-2046.jpg?itok=440kkgPc Don't disagree. I've been a Solihull guy for a long time. The new Defender ain't my thing but JLR did a reasonable job of giving it off road chops given the constraints. Not ultimate, and for real use you'd be better of with a Rubicon (or maybe Grenadier), but for the market they targeted, it scored. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 12:54:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't disagree. I've been a Solihull guy for a long time. The new Defender ain't my thing but JLR did a reasonable job of giving it off road chops given the constraints. Not ultimate, and for real use you'd be better of with a Rubicon (or maybe Grenadier), but for the market they targeted, it scored. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not really surprised by the costs. When you source parts from BMW and Magna, shits going to be expensive. $65k USD is pretty reasonable given the feature set. 30k GBP ($45k) was bullshit from the beginning BMW Driveline, Carraro axles, Gestamp chassis and panels, most of the suppliers are known quantities and top flight. Initial engineering from Magna Powertrain and series engineering by Magna Steyr made abundant sense and created a good deal of confidence. The whole project has come off well, but given Ineos' competencies and Ratcliffes vision , I've been confident from the beginning. Though there's aspects I'm not thrilled with, should be a suitable heir to the Defenders legacy. It sure beats the "new" Defender. That's for sure. https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/gallery_slide/public/images/car-reviews/first-drives/legacy/defender-2046.jpg?itok=440kkgPc Don't disagree. I've been a Solihull guy for a long time. The new Defender ain't my thing but JLR did a reasonable job of giving it off road chops given the constraints. Not ultimate, and for real use you'd be better of with a Rubicon (or maybe Grenadier), but for the market they targeted, it scored. Soccer moms everywhere are creaming themselves over it. 
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:06:14 PM EDT
[#19]
So everyone knows what it would look like with the steering wheel on the correct side:
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:06:27 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmm. U.S. HQ in Raw-lay Nawf Cackalacky. RALEIGH A $60 billion global conglomerate that's planning to begin selling a 44 utility next year will base its US operations in Raleigh. In an announcement early Wednesday, INEOS Automotive detailed rollout and support plans for its Grenadier 44 that's scheduled to launch next July. U.S. sales are scheduled to begin in summer 2023. European sales begin next summer. And the company will be bringing jobs to the Triangle next year. "Greg Clark, our [executive vice president] of Americas, will establish our offices and begin operations during Q4 this year," a spokesperson for INEOS Automtive tells WRAL TechWire. Look for more than 20 additional jobs, she added. No "real work" jobs though. Just BS / marketing 'jobs'. However, there won't be any manufacturing in North Carolina. "Vehicles will be built in Hambach, France," the spokesperson notes. "No U.S. manufacturing is planned at this time." Further information here: Oddball vehicle maker sucks up local taxpayer dollars scam This is a niche vehicle pet project of a Chemical company billionaire. Ineos already has 12 mfg sites in the US with about 2300 of the 8000 employees worldwide. They tend to be very lean - roughly 40 in the HQ where most would have a few hundred. Toyota's first US office in LA had less. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:07:41 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Steering wheel is on the wrong side... I kind of like it. I would want the steering on the right. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:08:02 PM EDT
[#22]
it's got a unique aesthetic. I am not sure what purpose a recessed "oh shit" handle will serve, but I don't hate it.
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:08:44 PM EDT
[#23]
For 50k might make better sense to get a fully loaded Bronco
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:11:02 PM EDT
[#24]
I’d get one parley because of the switches on the roof.
I can pretend to be a pilot while driving Unfortunately I’m poor( relatively I.e I cant just spunk money on every car I see) Buying stuff because of switches is probably why I’m poor. Shame about the bmw engine |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:11:45 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:13:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I kind of like it. I would want the steering on the right. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Steering wheel is on the wrong side... I kind of like it. I would want the steering on the right.  Attached FileHere ya go |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:15:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So everyone knows what it would look like with the steering wheel on the correct side: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/36516/55963DBE-D9B6-4DD0-865B-0B6EF7971187_jpe-2112038.jpg Now the gear shift is on the wrong side!  I like the looks. I'm surprised there is no one protesting the name "Grenadier" and its ties to Colonialism... |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:21:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd get one parley because of the switches on the roof. I can pretend to be a pilot while driving Unfortunately I'm poor( relatively I.e I cant just spunk money on every car I see) Buying stuff because of switches is probably why I'm poor. Shame about the bmw engine Switches are a great implementation but Alpine windows FTW!! You're in luck because soon they'll have a Korea Motors fuel cell. What drivetrain should they have adopted? |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:24:26 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is a niche vehicle pet project of a Chemical company billionaire. Ineos already has 12 mfg sites in the US with about 2300 of the 8000 employees worldwide. They tend to be very lean - roughly 40 in the HQ where most would have a few hundred. Toyota's first US office in LA had less. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hmm. U.S. HQ in Raw-lay Nawf Cackalacky. RALEIGH A $60 billion global conglomerate that's planning to begin selling a 44 utility next year will base its US operations in Raleigh. In an announcement early Wednesday, INEOS Automotive detailed rollout and support plans for its Grenadier 44 that's scheduled to launch next July. U.S. sales are scheduled to begin in summer 2023. European sales begin next summer. And the company will be bringing jobs to the Triangle next year. "Greg Clark, our [executive vice president] of Americas, will establish our offices and begin operations during Q4 this year," a spokesperson for INEOS Automtive tells WRAL TechWire. Look for more than 20 additional jobs, she added. No "real work" jobs though. Just BS / marketing 'jobs'. However, there won't be any manufacturing in North Carolina. "Vehicles will be built in Hambach, France," the spokesperson notes. "No U.S. manufacturing is planned at this time." Further information here: Oddball vehicle maker sucks up local taxpayer dollars scam This is a niche vehicle pet project of a Chemical company billionaire. Ineos already has 12 mfg sites in the US with about 2300 of the 8000 employees worldwide. They tend to be very lean - roughly 40 in the HQ where most would have a few hundred. Toyota's first US office in LA had less. That's cool and all. Hope it succeeds and everyone is happy with their faux Defender. Doesn't mean I'm happy they are dishing out tax breaks to entice companies to move here. But that's another topic discussion. Truthfully I am just a jealous poor that will never be able to afford one. 
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:27:59 PM EDT
[#30]
I'm curious how this thing is going to get through all the government red tape.
Between the EPA and NHTSA, it should be fun. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:28:12 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now the gear shift is on the wrong side! I like the looks. I'm surprised there is no one protesting the name "Grenadier" and its ties to Colonialism... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So everyone knows what it would look like with the steering wheel on the correct side: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/36516/55963DBE-D9B6-4DD0-865B-0B6EF7971187_jpe-2112038.jpg Now the gear shift is on the wrong side! I like the looks. I'm surprised there is no one protesting the name "Grenadier" and its ties to Colonialism... eh. The colonialism is what's really attracting me to it. 
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:28:52 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm curious how this thing is going to get through all the government red tape. Between the EPA and NHTSA, it should be fun. Limited import volume probably. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:29:21 PM EDT
[#33]
never heard of it, or maybe I did and figured it was electric or something....but i see it has an inline 6 gas or dsl ....and will come in a double cab pickup....and I am liking the other specs....like a vinyl floor with drain holes, steel wheels and other work type stuff.
seeing how we will never see a new LC 70 series in the US........this maybe is what I am looking for. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:34:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Limited import volume probably. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm curious how this thing is going to get through all the government red tape. Between the EPA and NHTSA, it should be fun. Limited import volume probably. Designed from the ground up to meet major market regs, safety and spec was all accounted for at dev planning and finalized in design. B58 Petrol and B57 Diesel BMW lumps are already EPA certed. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:36:01 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: eh. The colonialism is what's really attracting me to it. No kidding. Perhaps a Hessian Grenadier Helmet brass for a front plate!
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:37:00 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Designed from the ground up to meet major market regs, safety and spec was all accounted for at dev planning and finalized in design. B58 Petrol and B57 Diesel BMW lumps are already EPA certed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm curious how this thing is going to get through all the government red tape. Between the EPA and NHTSA, it should be fun. Limited import volume probably. Designed from the ground up to meet major market regs, safety and spec was all accounted for at dev planning and finalized in design. B58 Petrol and B57 Diesel BMW lumps are already EPA certed. That answers that. 
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Posted: 9/30/2021 1:49:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That answers that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm curious how this thing is going to get through all the government red tape. Between the EPA and NHTSA, it should be fun. Limited import volume probably. Designed from the ground up to meet major market regs, safety and spec was all accounted for at dev planning and finalized in design. B58 Petrol and B57 Diesel BMW lumps are already EPA certed. That answers that. Why MBTech (yes that MB) handled initial design/concept in Stuttgart and once BMW lined up for motive various Magna entities were brought in for series, mfg engineering and prototype dev. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 2:15:31 PM EDT
[#38]
Yes, even at 65k IF they will import the diesel TT...
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Posted: 9/30/2021 2:17:07 PM EDT
[#39]
Meh, plenty of options with a 6.2
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Posted: 9/30/2021 2:39:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, even at 65k IF they will import the diesel TT... Greg Clark (Ineos US) says US market will be petrol only. |
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Posted: 10/1/2021 5:15:45 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Greg Clark (Ineos US) says US market will be petrol only. I had been following the progress of this for the last 14 months. I was very interested until the no diesel for the US announcement. Probably go diesel Gladiator instead. |
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Posted: 10/1/2021 5:21:46 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Steering wheel is on the wrong side... I kind of like it. I would want the steering on the right. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14291/FC4BC380-C091-482E-A744-C631DA23E339_jpe-2112050.JPG Here ya go Lol So is it actually designed for offroad, or is it just a 4runner with a different body? |
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Posted: 10/1/2021 6:19:13 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol So is it actually designed for offroad, or is it just a 4runner with a different body? There's a good bit of info/videos suggesting it is built from the ground up to do off road things. |
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Posted: 10/1/2021 6:21:06 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol So is it actually designed for offroad, or is it just a 4runner with a different body? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Steering wheel is on the wrong side... I kind of like it. I would want the steering on the right. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14291/FC4BC380-C091-482E-A744-C631DA23E339_jpe-2112050.JPG Here ya go Lol So is it actually designed for offroad, or is it just a 4runner with a different body? Guy who started as a chemical engineer bought part of BPs chemical biz by mortgaging his house - that start has made him about $18B - and made him, depending, the richest in UK. When JLR discontinued the full frame, solid axle Defender, he approached Rover to purchase the design, line and tooling. They instead scrapped it. Pissed off, he decided he'd make his own. He was on a mission and it did not drift into fluff and opulence. So they went clean sheet. It's a solid axle, full frame, off road optimized, rugged machine. Utility has been prioritized - as mentioned it can be had with rubber floors and drains. But it's not a traditional US, large wheel rock climber. Wrangler and Bronco will likely keep the 35" factory setup to themselves. It's very much in the vein of Defender, old GWagen, 70 Series/105 overland basic dirt oriented transport. The kind of thing someone will take London to Vladivostok. Solid Carrano axles, triple lockers, usable off-road power, serious engineering. You can order 17" steelies - that points you at use expectation. These things are best judged after wide use in challenging terrain - not projected ability. But from everything I've seen, Ineos has done what's needed. Ratliffe was very focused on a particular end: tough, simple, effective. I could see them doing something like the Camel Trophy to exhibit its cred. It's not an icon yet, but it's got a lot of potential. |
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Posted: 10/1/2021 6:25:01 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had been following the progress of this for the last 14 months. I was very interested until the no diesel for the US announcement. Probably go diesel Gladiator instead. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Greg Clark (Ineos US) says US market will be petrol only. I had been following the progress of this for the last 14 months. I was very interested until the no diesel for the US announcement. Probably go diesel Gladiator instead. Yea, kinda sucks, especially since the B57 is certed and offered by BMW. I know the business case made little of the diesels desirability in the prospect buyer pool. |
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Posted: 10/10/2021 6:23:20 AM EDT
[#46]
I put my deposit down on the first night, about 10 minutes after the site went live. Haven't decided on the color, but I'm liking either the green or the mushroom color.
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Posted: 10/10/2021 6:26:35 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Steering wheel is on the wrong side... Not if you are a mail man. 
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Posted: 10/10/2021 7:00:50 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A Land Rover knock off made by some guy in a shed in the UK. What could go wrong? Isn't Ineos a huge company with their hands into all kinds of stuff? (Except cars/trucks until now.) I imagine they have access to all of the high technology and engineering resources they could want. My first thought was that it looked a lot like a reworked Land Rover but that is a pretty useful design that has held up well over the years. |
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Posted: 10/10/2021 7:13:34 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $65k USD is pretty reasonable given the feature set. 30k GBP ($45k) was bullshit from the beginning BMW Driveline, Carraro axles, Gestamp chassis and panels, most of the suppliers are known quantities and top flight. Initial engineering from Magna Powertrain and series engineering by Magna Steyr made abundant sense and created a good deal of confidence. The whole project has come off well, but given Ineos' competencies and Ratcliffes vision , I've been confident from the beginning. Though there's aspects I'm not thrilled with, should be a suitable heir to the Defenders legacy. $65k before production... $120k once pressure is put on those parts suppliers to raise their prices for Ineos... established companies dont like interlopers. |
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Posted: 10/10/2021 7:15:13 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So everyone knows what it would look like with the steering wheel on the correct side: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/36516/55963DBE-D9B6-4DD0-865B-0B6EF7971187_jpe-2112038.jpg It gets backwards text and gauges? 
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