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Posted: 4/30/2014 8:23:52 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I had even the slightest expectation that the tolls would be offset by reducing other taxes, I might entertain this notion as acceptable. But, as we know, that's not how it ever works. We did have comprehensive tax reform in 1986. It would be useful to see that again. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 8:23:57 AM EDT
[#2]
They've already made toll roads on interstates.
I-495 (Beltway) in Virginia near Tysons Corner just finally finished construction on 495-Express; widening the road by 2 more lanes....only these lanes are electronically (EZ-PASS) tolled. Meanwhile; MD-200, the first new highway in Maryland in a long time is electronically tolled. This is going to be the norm for new road construction -- if you want the convenience of fast rapid road transit, be prepared to pay for it. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 8:24:54 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Texas has 13.5 million drivers. So we are paying for 3,300 miles of new superhighway a year... with that math. Start looking at TXDOT financial statements. They are $13B in debt since 2004 for a reason. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 10:27:57 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Texas has 13.5 million drivers. So we are paying for 3,300 miles of new superhighway a year... with that math. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The cost to build an average urban road of 8 total lanes for 12 miles is 6.5 million bucks a mile. The cost of building a superhighway tollroad is much more than $6.5mm/mile. If you drive 100k a year on a toll way and get 25 mpg, you will pay $1600 a year (in Texas for state, fed, and local taxes). This means that your highway taxes will pay for a whopping .00025 miles of highway or 1.3 whopping feet. Very few of them drive more than 40k per year. Not all the taxes go to highway construction and maintenance...the gov skims a bunch of it. There are almost 80,000 miles of highways in Texas. •Centerline miles: 79,535 composed of: •Interstate Highways (IH): 3,233 •U.S. Highways (US): 12,102 •State Highways (SH): 16,199 •Farm to Market Roads (FM, RM, UR): 40,985 They have to be maintained, upgraded, or replaced. A new overpass does not add an inch to a highway. There are wages. My point earlier, which I did not make well, was that if all the highway taxes that a high mileage driver might pay in a year when only to highway construction, you wouldn't even make it to the first yard. And my figure was not for a super highway. Rather it was for a stop-and-go urban road that was at one time a rural Farm to Market....no access roads and no bridges. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 10:43:19 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very few of them drive more than 40k per year. Not all the taxes go to highway construction and maintenance...the gov skims a bunch of it. There are almost 80,000 miles of highways in Texas. •Centerline miles: 79,535 composed of: •Interstate Highways (IH): 3,233 •U.S. Highways (US): 12,102 •State Highways (SH): 16,199 •Farm to Market Roads (FM, RM, UR): 40,985 They have to be maintained, upgraded, or replaced. A new overpass does not add an inch to a highway. There are wages. My point earlier, which I did not make well, was that if all the highway taxes that a high mileage driver might pay in a year when only to highway construction, you wouldn't even make it to the first yard. And my figure was not for a super highway. Rather it was for a stop-and-go urban road that was at one time a rural Farm to Market....no access roads and no bridges. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The cost to build an average urban road of 8 total lanes for 12 miles is 6.5 million bucks a mile. The cost of building a superhighway tollroad is much more than $6.5mm/mile. If you drive 100k a year on a toll way and get 25 mpg, you will pay $1600 a year (in Texas for state, fed, and local taxes). This means that your highway taxes will pay for a whopping .00025 miles of highway or 1.3 whopping feet. Very few of them drive more than 40k per year. Not all the taxes go to highway construction and maintenance...the gov skims a bunch of it. There are almost 80,000 miles of highways in Texas. •Centerline miles: 79,535 composed of: •Interstate Highways (IH): 3,233 •U.S. Highways (US): 12,102 •State Highways (SH): 16,199 •Farm to Market Roads (FM, RM, UR): 40,985 They have to be maintained, upgraded, or replaced. A new overpass does not add an inch to a highway. There are wages. My point earlier, which I did not make well, was that if all the highway taxes that a high mileage driver might pay in a year when only to highway construction, you wouldn't even make it to the first yard. And my figure was not for a super highway. Rather it was for a stop-and-go urban road that was at one time a rural Farm to Market....no access roads and no bridges. How much of your gas/road taxes go towards union pensions? I know in PA you get a hefty pension with 30yrs in. So assuming a person starts @ 18yrs old and works 30yrs. They can retire @ 48yrs old with a pension. Then you need to hire someone to replace him. Now 30yrs later, you have 2 people on the pension system and still need to add a new person to replace the 2nd person. Union pensions are killing the taxpayers in PA. And it's not just PENNDOT.
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Posted: 4/30/2014 10:55:17 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much of your gas/road taxes go towards union pensions? I know in PA you get a hefty pension with 30yrs in. So assuming a person starts @ 18yrs old and works 30yrs. They can retire @ 48yrs old with a pension. Then you need to hire someone to replace him. Now 30yrs later, you have 2 people on the pension system and still need to add a new person to replace the 2nd person. Union pensions are killing the taxpayers in PA. And it's not just PENNDOT. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The cost to build an average urban road of 8 total lanes for 12 miles is 6.5 million bucks a mile. The cost of building a superhighway tollroad is much more than $6.5mm/mile. If you drive 100k a year on a toll way and get 25 mpg, you will pay $1600 a year (in Texas for state, fed, and local taxes). This means that your highway taxes will pay for a whopping .00025 miles of highway or 1.3 whopping feet. Very few of them drive more than 40k per year. Not all the taxes go to highway construction and maintenance...the gov skims a bunch of it. There are almost 80,000 miles of highways in Texas. •Centerline miles: 79,535 composed of: •Interstate Highways (IH): 3,233 •U.S. Highways (US): 12,102 •State Highways (SH): 16,199 •Farm to Market Roads (FM, RM, UR): 40,985 They have to be maintained, upgraded, or replaced. A new overpass does not add an inch to a highway. There are wages. My point earlier, which I did not make well, was that if all the highway taxes that a high mileage driver might pay in a year when only to highway construction, you wouldn't even make it to the first yard. And my figure was not for a super highway. Rather it was for a stop-and-go urban road that was at one time a rural Farm to Market....no access roads and no bridges. How much of your gas/road taxes go towards union pensions? I know in PA you get a hefty pension with 30yrs in. So assuming a person starts @ 18yrs old and works 30yrs. They can retire @ 48yrs old with a pension. Then you need to hire someone to replace him. Now 30yrs later, you have 2 people on the pension system and still need to add a new person to replace the 2nd person. Union pensions are killing the taxpayers in PA. And it's not just PENNDOT. No unions in Texas involved in road building. We are a right-to-work state. But the state does have a significant pension load. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 12:15:15 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing to do with money, everything to do with tracking. That's what I was thinking. Good way to keep tabs on the populace. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 12:22:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not saying you should do it, ever, but it's not hard to disconnect an odometer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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so forcing higher mpg thus lowering the tax revenue you use for the roads was a bad idea? 2+2=4, but not for the people in our Federal Government. Before it's all said and done, you will be taxed by the miles you drive + pay the fuel tax. Not saying you should do it, ever, but it's not hard to disconnect an odometer. Sounds like treason to me |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 12:22:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's what I was thinking. Good way to keep tabs on the populace. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Nothing to do with money, everything to do with tracking. That's what I was thinking. Good way to keep tabs on the populace. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Tracking your cell phone is a hell of a lot easier. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 12:24:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Toll Roads, like Voting ID is a burden that cannot be imposed on the poor.
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Posted: 4/30/2014 12:29:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Toll Roads, like Voting ID is a burden that cannot be imposed on the poor. NYC has proposed a $10-$15 entry fee for all vehicles. They plan to use some of the proceeds to offset the costs by expanding subway coverage. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 12:32:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing to do with money, everything to do with tracking. I would have to go with this. There s plenty of cash to go around, we they just give it to the wrong folks is all. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 12:32:57 PM EDT
[#13]
It pains me greatly to admit it, but the tollways around the region of the greater Chicago Metroplex area are in pretty good shape.
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Posted: 4/30/2014 12:40:27 PM EDT
[#14]
The toll roads around here are in GREAT shape - because they have probably 10% of their projected traffic.
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Posted: 4/30/2014 12:46:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd be ok if all roads were toll roads, if.... 1. All taxes on gas, federal and state were eliminated. 2. The dollar amount of taxes on auto sales, property taxes on autos, and property taxes on the home that goes to the road funds is dropped. 3. The roads are privatized, or state run, and there be a cash solution available for paying the toll at the toll booth, with no tracking of vehicles for cash customers. 
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Posted: 4/30/2014 12:48:37 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The capitolist side of me says this is not a bad thing IF the state buys the interstate system and privatizes it so the .fedgov is hands off forever. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 12:52:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nothing to do with money, everything to do with tracking. Obama barricaded the sidewalks in D.C. and he barricaded pull over's bordering National Parks. Wait till he shuts down the interstates. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 12:53:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The toll roads around here are in GREAT shape - because they have probably 10% of their projected traffic. The toll roads in DFW are at times running at capacity. The Sam Rayburn Toll Way will now be the main street for the 400 acre Berkshire-Hathaway development, Toyota's US headquarters, and much, much more development. The North Dallas Toll Way from GW Bush north is also booming. We are getting some great roads in the DFW area and we are booming. You have to have the roads to get the businesses and the jobs. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 12:53:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Toll Roads, like Voting ID is a burden that cannot be imposed on the poor. What? If they drive on it, they pay. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 2:32:17 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 25 mpg is very common and considered undesirably low for most people. Do what you want. My point, not a difficult one to comprehend, is that fuel taxes are not enough to build highways. Tolls are user taxes. Quite equitable. Use it; pay for it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Let's see. There is an old highway that doesn't suffice anymore. A toll road, with excellent access roads on either side, is built. New access roads are better than old highway. You can choose to pay a toll and ride on a great highway that cannot be built with gas taxes because highways are extremely expensive to build or you can now drive on the new access roads and do just fine. Or you have no road at all. A toll road is built with excellent access roads. You can choose to drive on the free access roads or you can pay to drive on the toll way. Enough with the "I paid once for that highway to be built" mentality. Roads take maintenance. Roads have to be rebuilt. In urban areas there isn't enough room to simply build them wider. They have to be built overhead. That is expensive and gas taxes are not enough. I have tired of people bitching about paying $100/month on tolls to drive on good roads when they will stuff at least that much in crap food that their fat bodies don't need. Please don't waste money on junk food and fast food which will shorten your life and then have an apoplectic fit which will shorten your life over a road that your gas taxes over a lifetime would not pay for 2 inches of linear construction. You shuld sell your house, live in a tent, and just eat tomato soup. Think of all of the extra money, way more than $100, that you could donate to roads projects. Get out there! I offered perspective on the issue. You simply reinforced my contention that the complainers suck at math and personal responsibility. We get it. Shut up and pay more. We are not paying our "fair share".  BTW....how many people do you know who drive 100K per year and get 25mpg? Just curious. Math . It's hard. 25 mpg is very common and considered undesirably low for most people. Do what you want. My point, not a difficult one to comprehend, is that fuel taxes are not enough to build highways. Tolls are user taxes. Quite equitable. Use it; pay for it. Tolls require an entirely new collection agency to be built. You have to pay lots of workers to collect a tax. But the real reason against tolls is the fact that we just got finished building a limited access highway specifically designed to eliminating stopping and then the government goes and creates a reason to bring cars to a halt. That's plain stupid. Toll booths also cause accidents. Even if non-stop ez-tags are used, you still have to build a whole new collection agency with lots of unnecessary equipment. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 2:34:51 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most Toll Roads in the US use camera readers to collect license numbers in addition to the toll tags on your windshield. By doing this they can completely automate the toll roads and eliminate toll booths and operators completely. They can do something else with that, too. 
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Posted: 4/30/2014 2:37:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And how much is it going to cost to set up all those toll booths at every on ramp and off ramp? All those new government employees with their high pay for low skill jobs with nice health benefits and retirement packages. They will probably be unionized too. Now we will get to wait in line to get on the highway and wait again to get off. Great idea. Don't forget too, that since they will have a time stamp from when you get on the highway and again when you get off the highway they will be bale to calculate your average speed from point A to point B and will most certainly issue speeding tickets through the mail for those that are calculated to have exceeded the speed limit. They do that in New York state on the Thruway. Don't think it won't happen in your state. How much of the gas tax monies have these idiot politicians diverted to bike paths and and green ways while letting the highway system crumble. Then they required higher fuel efficiency vehicles so the gas tax revenue would drop. That's government in a nutshell for you. Finding a crisis they propose a solution for. A solution that typically benefits their campaign contributors, but in the end creates more problems down the road that could have easily been foreseen. What do they care though? By the time it comes to a head they are out of office and living fat of a tax payer provided pension and all those kick backs from their cronies. They'll even have the audacity to name these highways after themselves for voting to do it. Toll booths? In south FL they just use cameras, license plate readers and you get a bill in the mail 6-8 weeks later. Ain't nobody got time for toll booths. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 2:41:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How about cut the FSA handouts? Now don't be racist. 
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Posted: 4/30/2014 2:52:21 PM EDT
[#24]
In before the commerce clause screws something else up. Tax payers fleeing your crazy new laws to move someplace nice? Well crap the only highway out of town now has a Arm, leg, and kidney toll. Those replacement organs for the FSA have to come from somewhere.
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Posted: 4/30/2014 3:33:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It pains me greatly to admit it, but the tollways around the region of the greater Chicago Metroplex area are in pretty good shape. Because they're outrageously expensive. It costs like $20 to get from O'hare to Naperville. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 3:37:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because they're outrageously expensive. It costs like $20 to get from O'hare to Naperville. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It pains me greatly to admit it, but the tollways around the region of the greater Chicago Metroplex area are in pretty good shape. Because they're outrageously expensive. It costs like $20 to get from O'hare to Naperville. Not that much. Probably around $5-$6, if that. Tolls are less if you have an IPASS. |
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Posted: 4/30/2014 3:47:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Interstate Hwy system can't raise enough money even with 18.4 cents per gallon in federal fuel taxes to fix itself so now the regime is proposing allowing states to turn Interstates into toll roads. Can't make link hot. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/white-house-opens-door-to-tolls-on-interstate-highways-removing-long-standing-prohibition/2014/04/29/5d2b9f30-cfac-11e3-b812-0c92213941f4_story.html just another symptom of a Federal governemnt that has its eyes everywhere except where it should. I will do everything I can to avoid the tolls period just as I do now. |
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