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Posted: 2/27/2024 2:21:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the challenges I'm for certain doing is for all of the day trading and Forex gurus putting up $50,000 that my portfolio will make more than theirs does over the course of 3 months. Beyond that I also was thinking about challenging some of these people with 10 grand and cash each to see if they could shoot down a fpv drone carrying a Flash Bang grenade. A lot of people in one of the threads today seem to think that they can hit an fpv drone with a 12 gauge shotgun The effective range of a shotgun against a bird is about 40 yards, yet rambo's everywhere are certain they can disable something moving twice as fast, 3-5x as far, that is ?x stronger than uncooked chicken tenders. If the failure was not following the checklist leaving the lidar off, then that's about as dumb a screw up as leaving chocolate chips out of chocolate chip cookies. |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 2:24:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What kind of engineer doesn't plan for every potential issue? It tipped over? Fire everyone working on that project. Omniscience 101 wasn’t offered on my engineering curriculum. Perhaps it was in yours? With your model NASA never would have made it to the Moon. They would have had to sack and replace the entire project team after almost every mission. Or maybe my sarcasm meter is due for calibration. |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 2:37:17 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol at mooncell boomers thinking they watched something significant 55 years ago 
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Posted: 2/27/2024 2:39:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The effective range of a shotgun against a bird is about 40 yards, yet rambo's everywhere are certain they can disable something moving twice as fast, 3-5x as far, that is ?x stronger than uncooked chicken tenders. If the failure was not following the checklist leaving the lidar off, then that's about as dumb a screw up as leaving chocolate chips out of chocolate chip cookies. I suspect the design is sound…assuming a functional LIDAR with the arming pin removed. They ended up hacking one of the experiments to sort of function in its place. Sort of meaning functioning on its side instead of making a new crater. |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 2:42:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suspect the design is sound…assuming a functional LIDAR with the arming pin removed. They ended up hacking one of the experiments to sort of function in its place. Sort of meaning functioning on its side instead of making a new crater. And from what we are seeing on the company tweets the Lander will accomplish 80% of everything they had hoped for. Not making a crater was effectively mission success. NASA seems to put some faith in this company so much so they have two more Landers already budgeted in |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 2:48:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Omniscience 101 wasn't offered on my engineering curriculum. Perhaps it was in yours? With your model NASA never would have made it to the Moon. They would have had to sack and replace the entire project team after almost every mission. Or maybe my sarcasm meter is due for calibration. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What kind of engineer doesn't plan for every potential issue? It tipped over? Fire everyone working on that project. Omniscience 101 wasn't offered on my engineering curriculum. Perhaps it was in yours? With your model NASA never would have made it to the Moon. They would have had to sack and replace the entire project team after almost every mission. Or maybe my sarcasm meter is due for calibration. I like that, "omniscience". The usual meaning, plus omni-science. Here's the thing about checklists for complicated systems, they must be tested, and the more complicated the vehicle, the more eyes required. After the expert for each system goes through their section and the rest, an integrator puts it together, then different people check the sequence, and then the users wring it out hard. All items must be included, and the correct sequence. |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 2:50:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suspect the design is sound assuming a functional LIDAR with the arming pin removed. They ended up hacking one of the experiments to sort of function in its place. Sort of meaning functioning on its side instead of making a new crater. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The effective range of a shotgun against a bird is about 40 yards, yet rambo's everywhere are certain they can disable something moving twice as fast, 3-5x as far, that is ?x stronger than uncooked chicken tenders. If the failure was not following the checklist leaving the lidar off, then that's about as dumb a screw up as leaving chocolate chips out of chocolate chip cookies. I suspect the design is sound assuming a functional LIDAR with the arming pin removed. They ended up hacking one of the experiments to sort of function in its place. Sort of meaning functioning on its side instead of making a new crater. The NASA device is intended for the same function on other lander's. Translation during descent is the main culprit. |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 2:50:46 PM EDT
[#8]
A gearhead from BattleBots would have engineered a $100 solution.
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Posted: 2/27/2024 3:06:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The NASA device is intended for the same function on other lander's. Translation during descent is the main culprit. Being this is done on the cheap and not gold-plated, I look at this mission as a pathfinder. I suspect the lessons learned will be enough for a truly successful follow-on. Hardware-rich development as Elon calls it. |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 3:30:26 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol at mooncell boomers thinking they watched something significant 55 years ago LOL at anyone stupid enough to voice this. |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 3:35:41 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The NASA device is intended for the same function on other lander's. Translation during descent is the main culprit. Yeah I get the impression that if it worked it worked it may not be to blame ultimately for the leftover horizontal motion. You never know though. Interface, units, frequency, orientation may all play a factor in making sure you are not translating on touchdown. Be an interesting bit of work to read about once it's all sorted out. My guess is multiple contributing factors in a culture that can miss fulling arming the probe before launch. |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 5:26:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Blasted thru 6.00/ share.
Should have bought this AM 
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Posted: 2/27/2024 7:05:54 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NASA should hire all the geniuses in this thread to make a lander. There’s a couple dozen people here, who run checklists for a living. Missing something like that is not OK. |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 7:18:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s a couple dozen people here, who run checklists for a living. Missing something like that is not OK. Yeah sounds like a human failure that needs to be analyzed. Was the task simply not documented (i.e. not on the checklist)? Was it documented, but that documentation was not readily accessible? Was it in the checklist, but simply ignored or overlooked? etc.... |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 7:32:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Why did we even go this time?
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Posted: 2/27/2024 8:53:05 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 2/27/2024 8:59:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The entire race to the moon cost the US $25 billion dollars. By 1971 those dollars had returned $52 billion in economic growth to the US alone and continues to benefit us today. NASA is the only federal program that can claim such a benefit. Tang Velcro 52 billion sounds about right. |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 9:00:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Odysseus had to take an extra orbit to give controllers time to make a perfect landing near the Moon’s south pole due to a laser-guided range finder in-flight malfunction. The laser safety switch, which can only be disabled manually, was not unlocked by company engineers before launch, which resulted in the malfunction being discovered hours before landing. According to Hansen, the company is still investigating whether an ad-libbed navigation solution used by a NASA-supplied experimental system on the lander caused the spacecraft to land sideways. As stated by the company, Odysseus encountered uneven ground on the lunar surface and tipped over, apparently propped up on a boulder. As a result, its solar panels received less sunlight and its antennae were pointed towards the surface of the moon, which caused some communications to be blocked. 77 million dollars for a rocket launch and 118 million for a lander and they employ people who can’t follow a pre-launch checklist. That mistake just wasted $200 million dollars worth of space gear and years of work. I’d be surprised to see them getting any more contracts any time soon. |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 9:05:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And from what we are seeing on the company tweets the Lander will accomplish 80% of everything they had hoped for. Not making a crater was effectively mission success. NASA seems to put some faith in this company so much so they have two more Landers already budgeted in It’s not like it’s NASA’s money. If they cared about being good stewards of tax money, they wouldn’t be wasting billion and billions on SLS |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 9:32:24 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s not like it’s NASA’s money. If they cared about being good stewards of tax money, they wouldn’t be wasting billion and billions on SLS Cancel Artemis. I am surprised that they did not add that the goal was also to put the first tranny on the moon in additional to a real female and a black. |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 9:43:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Space Food sticks Tang Velcro 52 billion sounds about right. Integrated Circuits Fiber Optics |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 9:48:39 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 77 million dollars for a rocket launch and 118 million for a lander and they employ people who can't follow a pre-launch checklist. That mistake just wasted $200 million dollars worth of space gear and years of work. I'd be surprised to see them getting any more contracts any time soon. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Odysseus had to take an extra orbit to give controllers time to make a perfect landing near the Moon's south pole due to a laser-guided range finder in-flight malfunction. The laser safety switch, which can only be disabled manually, was not unlocked by company engineers before launch, which resulted in the malfunction being discovered hours before landing. According to Hansen, the company is still investigating whether an ad-libbed navigation solution used by a NASA-supplied experimental system on the lander caused the spacecraft to land sideways. As stated by the company, Odysseus encountered uneven ground on the lunar surface and tipped over, apparently propped up on a boulder. As a result, its solar panels received less sunlight and its antennae were pointed towards the surface of the moon, which caused some communications to be blocked. 77 million dollars for a rocket launch and 118 million for a lander and they employ people who can't follow a pre-launch checklist. That mistake just wasted $200 million dollars worth of space gear and years of work. I'd be surprised to see them getting any more contracts any time soon. Show us a copy of any checklist for this vehicle |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 10:28:56 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We should already know how to land on the moon, considering we've done it already. This shouldn't be that hard. We have all these technological advancements, AI, and whatnot, and yet a bunch of chain smoking dudes in short sleeve button downs with slide rules figured out how to throw people up there 50 years ago. And in the end on the first moon landing didn’t the astronauts have to take manual control of the craft to get it landed safely? |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 10:45:46 PM EDT
[#24]
Dumbasses.
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Posted: 2/27/2024 10:45:58 PM EDT
[#25]
While you may not see the immediate results of Funding NASA in it,s early and subsequent years there have many benefits that have come out of the agency.
It's been proven that in previous generations, that for every $1 applied, the American Economy enjoyed an extra $1 return on on investments in the space race. Case in point. VELCRO, Pilots and Astronauts needed something other than zippers and buttons, wallah! Velcro! Now all of you Corvette drivers live a comfortable life because of the space race ! 
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Posted: 2/27/2024 10:52:04 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Something that bites into the ground is what you DON'T want. The big challenge is to arrest horizontal movement completely before touchdown. If you have any horizontal movement, and a foot bites into the ground, the lander tips. You need to have it landing perfectly straight down. To guard against that, the way to handle this would be to have each foot be smooth and bowl shaped so it will slide if the touchdown isn't exactly perfect, and just make sure to touch down in an area without any large protuberances such as rocks or fissures. Feet like that would give you a safety margin in case you didn't nail the straight down landing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Shoulda been designed with a wider stance and lower center of gravity, maybe. And off-road casters. That’s my thoughts. Something that bites into the ground with enough shock absorption to prevent damage. Something that bites into the ground is what you DON'T want. The big challenge is to arrest horizontal movement completely before touchdown. If you have any horizontal movement, and a foot bites into the ground, the lander tips. You need to have it landing perfectly straight down. To guard against that, the way to handle this would be to have each foot be smooth and bowl shaped so it will slide if the touchdown isn't exactly perfect, and just make sure to touch down in an area without any large protuberances such as rocks or fissures. Feet like that would give you a safety margin in case you didn't nail the straight down landing. That's what I don't understand about the pictures that I have seen from the lunar landings. The landers that I saw looked like they had 2' long probes/spikes under the feet of the landings legs? |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 11:05:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’d have loved to been a fly on the wall for that information reveal. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The laser safety switch, which can only be disabled manually, was not unlocked by company engineers before launch, which resulted in the malfunction being discovered hours before landing. Oh for fucks sake. I’d have loved to been a fly on the wall for that information reveal. I would guess there was a video meeting of at least 30-50 people, most engineers, all pointing their fingers at someone else and in the end no one being held personally responsible nor suffering any consequences. In a few months most will get promotions, more money or better assignments. An hourly person will get walked out the door and most of the blame. |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 11:15:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Blasted thru 6.00/ share. Should have bought this AM |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 11:28:37 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would guess there was a video meeting of at least 30-50 people, most engineers, all pointing their fingers at someone else and in the end no one being held personally responsible nor suffering any consequences. In a few months most will get promotions, more money or better assignments. An hourly person will get walked out the door and most of the blame. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The laser safety switch, which can only be disabled manually, was not unlocked by company engineers before launch, which resulted in the malfunction being discovered hours before landing. Oh for fucks sake. I’d have loved to been a fly on the wall for that information reveal. I would guess there was a video meeting of at least 30-50 people, most engineers, all pointing their fingers at someone else and in the end no one being held personally responsible nor suffering any consequences. In a few months most will get promotions, more money or better assignments. An hourly person will get walked out the door and most of the blame. At a previous employer, I coined a phrase (with a little inspiration from a Bill Cosby skit years prior): "The International But-But Champeenship".
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Posted: 2/27/2024 11:30:09 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 2/28/2024 8:06:16 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s generally agreed that the NASA of the 1960s was filled with some of the best and brightest folks America and the world had to offer. They still had failures, some of which were comically bad. Look up the “angry alligator “ from Gemini. A primary mission objective failed because contractor A wouldn’t let contractor B’s engineer on the pad to make sure contractor B’s shroud was installed correctly. Doing anything on the moon is hard. This team achieved a soft landing with data returned on a small budget, using a degree of automation not previously demonstrated. It’s impressive despite the lack of perfection. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I didn't know it fell over. Nor do I really care, but it is a little interesting that it did fall over. The excellence that was once this great country, has been abandoned for wokeism and diversity, after all, diversity is our strength, strength to do what is the question. I am sure the company that designed and launched this unmanned probe that didn't land in a usable attitude on the surface of the moon had solid diversity stats for it's employees and management. A company must have it's priorities in order, so it has that going for it. It’s generally agreed that the NASA of the 1960s was filled with some of the best and brightest folks America and the world had to offer. They still had failures, some of which were comically bad. Look up the “angry alligator “ from Gemini. A primary mission objective failed because contractor A wouldn’t let contractor B’s engineer on the pad to make sure contractor B’s shroud was installed correctly. Doing anything on the moon is hard. This team achieved a soft landing with data returned on a small budget, using a degree of automation not previously demonstrated. It’s impressive despite the lack of perfection. Sure. Complex systems don't always perform as expected. That is what drives technology forward. This was not a failure of technology or a failure of a complex system. It had nothing to do with doing hard stuff on the moon. This was a human failure on earth from a lack of either 1. not developing the pre-launch checklist properly and leaving a critical step out or 2. not following the pre-launch checklist properly, or 3. deviating from established procedure after the checklist was accomplished and disarming the system when it should not have been. It is the result of the lack of human discipline and attention to detail, pure and simple. Sure people makes mistakes. The secondary failure ( probably a bigger failure ) was that there appears there were no checks to trap those mistakes which is a fundamental human factors design flaw. Human factors in mishaps is a very mature science these days. In this case not so much. As a result of this single point failure, the craft didn't land upright. this was very avoidable and points to fundamental flaws in their process at several levels. This was a human failure as much as a human failure that happened with NASA when one part of the team used the metric system measurements and the other part of the team didn't and neither team knew it until they investigated the failure. This failure was avoidable. It isn't impressive at all, it is embarrassing. |
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Posted: 2/28/2024 8:44:44 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL... I don't know what to say. You BOTH included a manual disable for the laser AND did not checklist it or triple check it. That's a pretty serious F-Up across the board. Something like that is right up there with, "are the batteries charged?" "is the rocket fueled?" You check, with someone else confirming the check. Then later another pair checks. If both checks don't come back clear, no go. Some sort of obvious indicator, plus a failsafe system. Then, on something important like that, maybe a freakin backup? If your mission can have a hard fail because of something like that, you better plan the potential problems happening. It's the kind of mistake that makes me wonder just how many OTHER stupid mistakes they're making, because they didn't just build it stupid, they then failed all the production and execution side aspects as well. |
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